General CV related discussions.

[SodaBubbles]

Hey, just want to take a moment to thank the devs for introducing those Russian CVs! Wow, it is so much fun to take a 12K bomb hit for three fires and then immediately get hit for another 10K and two fires! Who wouldn't love that interaction!
 

This game design is pure genius! I bow to the superiority of minds that decided to monetize griefing.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

4 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

Hey, just want to take a moment to thank the devs for introducing those Russian CVs! Wow, it is so much fun to take a 12K bomb hit for three fires and then immediately get hit for another 10K and two fires! Who wouldn't love that interaction!
 

This game design is pure genius! I bow to the superiority of minds that decided to monetize griefing.

Splendid example for non russian bias at work... nobody in their right mind could have expected, that rather slow bombers, that are able to drop a full payload of whatevers on your donkey will lead to russian CVs moving closer to the enemy and start spamming attacks until the designated target starts to barf...

 

I only played the Serov in CoOp, but having three attack waves in the air at the same time - one just started, the second having just dropped their payload and the third getting close to the CV to land - was a really special sight... of course nobody at WG could have imagined this happening, right? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink... right?

[SodaBubbles]

3 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Splendid example for non russian bias at work... nobody in their right mind could have expected, that rather slow bombers, that are able to drop a full payload of whatevers on your donkey will lead to russian CVs moving closer to the enemy and start spamming attacks until the designated target starts to barf...

 

I only played the Serov in CoOp, but having three attack waves in the air at the same time - one just started, the second having just dropped their payload and the third getting close to the CV to land - was a really special sight... of course nobody at WG could have imagined this happening, right? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink... right?

 

The Russian bias is screamingly obvious. More and more I view the dev decisions as the result of malice. Only malice could explain the idiocy that is Russian CVs. Incompetence can't explain it, because you have to be competent to run the damage over time calculations and refine the skip bombers.

Those ships just suck. Imagine what kind of person you would have to be to play that or put it in the game.

[arquata2019_]

10 ore fa, Deckeru_Maiku ha scritto:

Uhm...

No?

RTS were more fun... there were ways to not getting utterly rekt by them all the time... CV interaction was a thing...

So, no, imho they aren't "better" than anything.

It's just fun to f*ck with those wannabe sealclubbers...

Not with them real sealclubbers, though... I mean those, who know how to hit targets...

Luckily there's not too many of them around.

Mostly...

 

I didn't mean it seriously ;)

Oh well, i think everybody knows how CVs are and were, so... :)

[Yosha_AtaIante]

10 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

Hey, just want to take a moment to thank the devs for introducing those Russian CVs! Wow, it is so much fun to take a 12K bomb hit for three fires and then immediately get hit for another 10K and two fires! Who wouldn't love that interaction!
 

This game design is pure genius! I bow to the superiority of minds that decided to monetize griefing.

Oh you poor thing... 

 

Meanwhile midway drops you for 22k damage per attack run which it can do up to 3 in a row with double fires sticking afterwards. 

 

You don't know how good you have it against RU CVs :D

[KayaYautja]

I still find it incredible that they include CV's in 7vs7 Ranked. I've had a rant about this before and got a warning for it. Guess I'm going to get another warning but you know what? I want to vent, so [edited]it.

 

[edited]you Wargaming. You're still retarded. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, KayaYautja said:

I still find it incredible that they include CV's in 7vs7 Ranked. I've had a rant about this before and got a warning for it. Guess I'm going to get another warning but you know what? I want to vent, so [edited]it.

 

[edited]you Wargaming. You're still retarded. 

Why not rant without throwing insults? Have you ever tried criticizing professionals who work irl with swear words and recieve services while doing so? 

[KayaYautja]

14 minutes ago, Yosha_nai said:

Why not rant without throwing insults? Have you ever tried criticizing professionals who work irl with swear words and recieve services while doing so? 

It's been several years of this [edited], look at this thread and the number of responses. Many, many people who are better and more knowledgeable than me pointing out the flaws with current CV designs and philosophy. I understand a business has to make money, I don't mind a business making money. It's when I as a consumer am constantly being bent over and ridden raw by a class that is so clearly broken it's not even funny. CV's in their current state are designed to cater to the lowest common denominator, the lemons of this game who can't figure out how to play the other classes. Those types of players you'll probably find are also the largest whales I'd wager. 

 

As an aside, I'm a simple man and horrible nasty swear words make me feel better. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Well, then continue feeling better I guess by swearing even harder. Probably also enjoying a happiness spike after getting punished for it.

 

It doesn't matter how long this has been going. WG does not need to do anything the community asks for. There can be even more topics filled with "criticism" and it wouldn't matter. 

 

 

Just that guy who complained about 15k drops from a russian CV... 15k... is nothing. A Haku drops you up to 4 times for a total of 40k unhealable citadel damage with the same attack squadron yet he complains about insignificant 15k drops coming in ever 40~ seconds. And that 15k also can only hit if no attempts of mitigating or dodging are made. It's ridiculous to even call this criticism. 

 

The most important criticism has been said in the middle of the rework. Since then mostly uninformed parroting and whining. Ever 5 pages the same info from 5 pages ago is repeated in here. It's rinse repeat of the same points over and over demanding changes that will never come instead we get more and more CV lines and Premium CVs. 

 

The funniest is clueless players falling for the "next CV line is even more op" nonsense. 

Every new CV and line they release will be weaker than the original two lines, US and IJN. WG is trying to balance CVs around the strength of inferior UK CVs which leads to the newest t10 CV having even less battle influence than Audacious....

 

 

It's time you start crying about the truly op CVs again instead of crying about the terrible RU CVs. 

[KayaYautja]

19 minutes ago, Yosha_nai said:

Well, then continue feeling better I guess by swearing even harder. Probably also enjoying a happiness spike after getting punished for it.

 

It doesn't matter how long this has been going. WG does not need to do anything the community asks for. There can be even more topics filled with "criticism" and it wouldn't matter. 

 

 

Just that guy who complained about 15k drops from a russian CV... 15k... is nothing. A Haku drops you up to 4 times for a total of 40k unhealable citadel damage with the same attack squadron yet he complains about insignificant 15k drops coming in ever 40~ seconds. And that 15k also can only hit if no attempts of mitigating or dodging are made. It's ridiculous to even call this criticism. 

 

The most important criticism has been said in the middle of the rework. Since then mostly uninformed parroting and whining. Ever 5 pages the same info from 5 pages ago is repeated in here. It's rinse repeat of the same points over and over demanding changes that will never come instead we get more and more CV lines and Premium CVs. 

 

The funniest is clueless players falling for the "next CV line is even more op" nonsense. 

Every new CV and line they release will be weaker than the original two lines, US and IJN. WG is trying to balance CVs around the strength of inferior UK CVs which leads to the newest t10 CV having even less battle influence than Audacious....

 

 

It's time you start crying about the truly op CVs again instead of crying about the terrible RU CVs. 

I legitimately don't care which CV's people complain about, they're all broken. People parroting the same crap every 5 pages should tell you something. Theres nothing new to complain about because they've barely changed or fixed anything since the rework. They were broken then, they're broken now. Unlimited spotting with zero risk. Massive damage potential with zero risk. Completely immune to any kind of counter play. AA is a joke.

 

Like I said previously and has been pointed out by others, it's all cash grab. How can we cater to the largest whales. I genuinely cannot wait for this game to die and get flushed down the shitter. Hopefully the company eventually goes under too. I'd stop playing but I have a terrible, terrible addiction to abuse and punishment. I'm making improvements though, steps in the right direction. I've stopped spending what little money I did.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

5 minutes ago, KayaYautja said:

I genuinely cannot wait for this game to die and get flushed down the shitter

well sadly for you you'll have to wait even longer then I guess as since 3 years after rework the game hasnt died even a little yet. 

 

Also your addiction can be solved by uninstalling the game. It's just a few clicks away. If you like being abused we can have a VC together with me insulting you until you click the uninstall button. That might help you with your addiction and I would gladly be the heoric spirit to help you 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, KayaYautja said:

CV's in their current state are designed to cater to the lowest common denominator, the lemons of this game who can't figure out how to play the other classes.

Well, you'll be amazed to see that they still play those other classes. 

And usually they do WORSE numbers in CVs than in those other classes. 

Because, they cannot aim, they lose all planes to AA (yes really) and get blapped. 

Note: same player that shows full broadside when in Tirpitz, to get their torps off.... 

...and they did BETTER in RTS CV. 

[DeviousDave02]

24 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well, you'll be amazed to see that they still play those other classes. 

And usually they do WORSE numbers in CVs than in those other classes. 

Because, they cannot aim, they lose all planes to AA (yes really) and get blapped. 

Note: same player that shows full broadside when in Tirpitz, to get their torps off.... 

...and they did BETTER in RTS CV. 

Probably due to the RTS auto target system where all you needed to do was click on an enemy ship and the AI did everything for you.

Seriously, it:

Moved the squadron(s) to the target

Positioned the aircraft for the attack run

Lined up the shot taking target lead into account

Corrected for early evasion by the enemy ship

Released the munitions at a good spot (not super optimal but good non the less)

 

The irony being that potatoes now find it harder as the AI doesn't hold their hands and they have to do it all manually despite WarGambling's claim that the skill gap was reduced .

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

21 minutes ago, DeviousDave02 said:

Probably due to the RTS auto target system where all you needed to do was click on an enemy ship and the AI did everything for you.

Yup. Exactly that. As long as the other CV didn't bother you, it was easy-peasy.

Some times they even "struck a deal"... a matter of which one could farm harder.

 

21 minutes ago, DeviousDave02 said:

Seriously, it:

Moved the squadron(s) to the target

Positioned the aircraft for the attack run

Lined up the shot taking target lead into account

Corrected for early evasion by the enemy ship

Released the munitions at a good spot (not super optimal but good non the less)

I know. However the interface was buggy. I never could get it to the targets that I wanted, because "glitch galore".

Granted I didn't have a fat PC (and super-fast internet...) then, as I have now. But for me it sucked. 
I like the "new style" of play much better. The problem was/is, the new mechanics have solved some problems but introduced new ones.

 

21 minutes ago, DeviousDave02 said:

The irony being that potatoes now find it harder as the AI doesn't hold their hands and they have to do it all manually despite WarGambling's claim that the skill gap was reduced .

Yes. actually there was not as much a skill gap, but more like some understood how to nullify the other CV and others did not.

So it was actually one CV against the other. What they did now, is take that away and NOW there is an actual skill gap. 

The skill gap is, some CV-drivers know how to avoid AA altogether and some just die in droves. 

CV-drivers now do not have to deal with tater-CVs anymore, WeeGee has done it for them. 

[Bainsmit_steel]

As someone who plaid a lot rts cvs and now new cvs i can say that RTS CVs was interesting but it felt like sub game into the game...basically it was not connected on any way with the main game and from that perspective current CV play is more prudent and connected to main game. RTS CV game was also unfair toward people who where not in cancer aa divisions they did not have any chance to win (giving the conjection that both cv players have similar skills) and at least for me it was the biggest problem with RTS CV gameplay.

 

Now new CV play..main problem is lack of interaction CV vs CV...basically one CV player can disregard other CV player and play its game. I think that it would be good to make fighters more useful (I think that WG said that it will not happen) or to make some sort of support CVs...who would be good against other cvs and who would do scouting jobs for the team but whose damage would be lower. Advantage is that aa cancer divisions are no more nor they bring such an large advantage so solo players can have better chance to win.

 

Considering OPnes RTS CVS where on par with today CVs...maybe +-15 % again depends on the player and who preferred what.

 

And I personally think that CVs brings some dynamic to the game and prevent massive island hugging...although it does create other problems like ships clustering and not moving from that cluster...

 

Game without CV would not be much different at least in my opinion then with them....I mean this is camping game no matter what and the best campers wins...

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 minutes ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

As someone who plaid a lot rts cvs and now new cvs i can say that RTS CVs was interesting but it felt like sub game into the game...basically it was not connected on any way with the main game and from that perspective current CV play is more prudent and connected to main game. RTS CV game was also unfair toward people who where not in cancer aa divisions they did not have any chance to win (giving the conjection that both cv players have similar skills) and at least for me it was the biggest problem with RTS CV gameplay.

I agree with that. The new style is (to me) much more likable. 

RTS looked more like "Red Alert 3" (Kirov reporting...)

 

2 minutes ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

Now new CV play..main problem is lack of interaction CV vs CV...basically one CV player can disregard other CV player and play its game. I think that it would be good to make fighters more useful (I think that WG said that it will not happen) or to make some sort of support CVs...who would be good against other cvs and who would do scouting jobs for the team but whose damage would be lower. Advantage is that aa cancer divisions are no more nor they bring such an large advantage so solo players can have better chance to win.

You still can harass the other CV. Depending on which one you have and which he has. 

I do it very often, usually it sends him into a panic and then he starts making mistakes, or I ff-up his play.

Also, WeeGee does offer some sort of "CV-nasty-build" where you can spec into the fighters. 

However this does not really work because the other CV can just avoid running into those fighters, 

and also that captain build costs a lot of points so you'll lose (too much) effectivity in other areas. 

 

2 minutes ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

Considering OPnes RTS CVS where on par with today CVs...maybe +-15 % again depends on the player and who preferred what.

I think it is incomparable. The only thing that is the same, is the CV-driver needs to know which areas he should attack/defend/spot.

 

2 minutes ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

And I personally think that CVs brings some dynamic to the game and prevent massive island hugging...although it does create other problems like ships clustering and not moving from that cluster...

Well, a simple idea would be this: if a ship is stationary, half the men go on tea-break and the other half just crowds the sundeck.

When on the move the AA-posts are fully manned & ät action stations"... I bet THAT would help... 

 

2 minutes ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

Game without CV would not be much different at least in my opinion then with them....I mean this is camping game no matter what and the best campers wins...

Yes some games are like that indeed. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

As someone who plaid a lot rts cvs and now new cvs i can say that RTS CVs was interesting but it felt like sub game into the game...basically it was not connected on any way with the main game and from that perspective current CV play is more prudent and connected to main game. RTS CV game was also unfair toward people who where not in cancer aa divisions they did not have any chance to win (giving the conjection that both cv players have similar skills) and at least for me it was the biggest problem with RTS CV gameplay.

 

Now new CV play..main problem is lack of interaction CV vs CV...basically one CV player can disregard other CV player and play its game. I think that it would be good to make fighters more useful (I think that WG said that it will not happen) or to make some sort of support CVs...who would be good against other cvs and who would do scouting jobs for the team but whose damage would be lower. Advantage is that aa cancer divisions are no more nor they bring such an large advantage so solo players can have better chance to win.

Yep, there is no designed carrier vs. carrier combat, quite the oppopsite, which is pathetic for a pvp class design. But there is also little to no surface to carrier combat which makes the redesigned carriers even more of a fallacy. Carriers connect to surface ships, but surface ships hardly connect to carriers in any meaningful way. Carriers still play their disconnected singleplayer game, even more so now, because they don't even connect to eachother anymore.

 

The damage race is so important even that scouting etc is just a side product. A carrier that takes its scouting task seriously will lose the battle. It's such a pile of shoddy ideas and execution, I havent been able to wrap my head around it still ^^

Carriers still do not connect to the game, because if they truely did, their survival rate wouldn't be as high as it is. ^^

 

[General_Alexus]

13 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

The Russian bias is screamingly obvious. More and more I view the dev decisions as the result of malice.

The hole point of the rework back in the RTS days was to get rid of alphastrikes.

The hole point of AA is to make second and third strikes more difficult while the first wave goes through, attacking squads even get a dmg reduction when flying in for attack because of this.

The hole point of slower squads for the russians was, that it needs time to do consecutive attacks, preventing dot-stacks... and they gave them rocket-boosters (add insult to injury that you can depleat your speedboost immedeatly because duh only one attack and you get a new full bar with the next flight.

 

So yeah, I agree thouse russian CVs are a result of malice.

[General_Alexus]

41 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Yep, there is no designed carrier vs. carrier combat, quite the oppopsite, which is pathetic for a pvp class design.

Yes, but again: the exact thing of CV vs CV combat in the RTS times, first with CV sniping and later with straving (allowing you to just depleat all of the enemy CVs attack airplaines without even wasting payload on the ship), lead to good CV players (I myself included) having an easy time achieving 70+% winrate. I liked that, but the playerbase complained.

 

Giving one (good) CV the ability to effectively nullify the enemy (bad) CV does not just mean its a 11 vs 12, at this point from the start, without even considering that a CV has the dmg potential of 2-3 ships, it means your 11 teammates have spotting, this increeses the total time of all your ships contributing DPS, while the enemy team has no spotting and is beeing farmed over Ilands ect.

 

You can pick one as long as CVs are limited in numbers.

 

(we never talk solutions to this issue, you could argue that CVs should be able to fly scoutplanes after they are dead so that loosing a CV just means your teams DPS goes down and not the spotting on top of this)

[BLUB__BLUB]

52 minutes ago, Europizza said:

The damage race is so important even that scouting etc is just a side product. A carrier that takes its scouting task seriously will lose the battle.

Correct. If you can't see where to delete ships best or troll around,

the next best thing is just to farm them as much as possible. 

 

52 minutes ago, Europizza said:

It's such a pile of shoddy ideas and execution, I havent been able to wrap my head around it still ^^

That last part (I assume) is a bit of a ...  

Spoiler

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

 

57 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Correct. If you can't see where to delete ships best or troll around,

the next best thing is just to farm them as much as possible. 

 

That last part (I assume) is a bit of a ...  

  Hide contents

 

I don't understand what you mean. I played carriers when they were completely and totally broken and OP, right after 0.8.0. For 2 months, after I was shat on in my Atlanta, Cleveland and Grozovoi. All I played from then on was carriers for a few weeks. Once they were neutralised, I stopped playing carriers. The carrier gimmick is griefing. Not tactical gameplay or team support, no, it's griefing. Their gameplay design is boring as fk and a simplistic, spam induced 1 trick pony. It lacks depth on so many levels, it's insane that they even managed to squeeze this much fun out of naval avaition modeling. It is uncomprehensably boring, flat, spammy and stupid. That last part I can't wrap my head around: how anyone involved in game design can produce such low quality pvp crap as the reworked carriers and run with it, only to come up with a partial solution to rockets, which were the worst addition to WOWS bar homing torpedoes, AFTER 3 YEARS. 

 

Mind boggeling.

[Tanaka_15]

8 minutes ago, Europizza said:

 

I don't understand what you mean. I played carriers when they were completely and totally broken and OP, right after 0.8.0. For 2 months, after I was shat on in my Atlanta, Cleveland and Grozovoi. All I played from then on was carriers for a few weeks. Once they were neutralised, I stopped playing carriers. The carrier gimmick is griefing. Not tactical gameplay or team support, no, it's griefing. Their gameplay design is boring as fk and a simplistic, spam induced 1 trick pony. It lacks depth on so many levels, it's insane that they even managed to squeeze this much fun out of naval avaition modeling. It is uncomprehensably boring, flat, spammy and stupid. That last part I can't wrap my head around: how anyone involved in game design can produce such low quality pvp crap as the reworked carriers and run with it, only to come up with a partial solution to rockets, which were the worst addition to WOWS bar homing torpedoes, AFTER 3 YEARS. 

 

Mind boggeling.

And now they add subs :D 

[BLUB__BLUB]

30 minutes ago, Europizza said:

I don't understand what you mean. I played carriers when they were completely and totally broken and OP, right after 0.8.0. For 2 months, after I was shat on in my Atlanta, Cleveland and Grozovoi. All I played from then on was carriers for a few weeks. Once they were neutralised, I stopped playing carriers.

 

Well, nobody can see any dates, so this is a well-needed add on. 

Nevertheless seems to me you know quite well how they work. 

 

30 minutes ago, Europizza said:

The carrier gimmick is griefing. Not tactical gameplay or team support, no, it's griefing. Their gameplay design is boring as fk and a simplistic, spam induced 1 trick pony. It lacks depth on so many levels, it's insane that they even managed to squeeze this much fun out of naval avaition modeling. It is uncomprehensably boring, flat, spammy and stupid. That last part I can't wrap my head around: how anyone involved in game design can produce such low quality pvp crap as the reworked carriers and run with it, only to come up with a partial solution to rockets, which were the worst addition to WOWS bar homing torpedoes, AFTER 3 YEARS. 

 

Mind boggeling.

Now THAT I can wholeheartedly support. To me it is more like, they swung a bat at a target, hit the target, smashed the whole building too, and called it a success. 

I'd say the precision of the weapon "is in need of some corrective measures". Which we are still waiting for, after 3 years indeed. 

 

26 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

And now they add subs :D 

Which should be more ready for balance. 

Main difference: the actual perp is the one delivering the goodies, so should be punishable. 

While with CVs you are always stuck with the fact that the perp sends his minions to deliver the goodies. 

But I have confidence in WeeGees ability FF-ing that up, too. Just limited hope of it turning out OK. 

[Tanaka_15]

17 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Which should be more ready for balance. 

Main difference: the actual perp is the one delivering the goodies, so should be punishable. 

While with CVs you are always stuck with the fact that the perp sends his minions to deliver the goodies. 

But I have confidence in WeeGees ability FF-ing that up, too. Just limited hope of it turning out OK. 

I know, but look at subs gameplay it is boring to play with and play aigainst entire proces is just [edited]messy as CVs imho. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Tanaka_15 said:

I know, but look at subs gameplay it is boring to play with and play aigainst entire proces is just [edited]messy as CVs imho. 

Well, boring or not boring is not for you to decide - if they are boring nobody will play them, they'll not buy stuff for them, and it will be WeeGees investment problem.

People might find them intriguing, somehow. Or maybe there are lots of old farts wanting to play a "quieted down version of sea-wars", whatever. 

You never know, WeeGee might open up a whole new "market" and they might become a great success. Just because YOU find them boring, other people might like it.

 

Same as weeb-camo and space stuff. I think OMG WTF but... it is just a certain group that WeeGee is serving their favourite dish.

And if, as a result of that, the ones WE like to play get mashed, we no longer like to play it, we just have to find something else.

And as we do that, WeeGee might rethink. Or not.