General CV related discussions.

[Aethervoxx]

14 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

And can you see, how shamelessly overpowered RTS CVs were? man, 45 seconds in the game and he already killed half the enemy team.

What!?  ..'shamelessly overpowered RTS CVs...' Incorrect. The reworked CVs are the shamelessly overpowered CV(s) now.

A statement of ..'45 seconds in the game and he already killed half the team.' is a blatant exaggeration if not an outright lie.

[Aethervoxx]

13 hours ago, Kriger3n said:

to say for sure that CV's are destroying this game.

I agree with you, Kriger3n, if we are discussing the game since the CV rework.  I would not say destroyed but the CV rework has wreaked the game.

[Aethervoxx]

Let us examine the issues with the reworked CVs.

1) Rocket planes on all the CVs, even ones which never had any? X

2) T4 CVs (for a year up to 3 a side) with 2 a side can sink any DD they want to - actually they can sink any ship they want to. Little to none AA defence at T4. Lets not ignore the T3 ships who get to see CVs. X (x4)

3) What armour plate (or is that 'stalinium'?) mm thickness do CVs now have? Even BB main guns now take time to delete CVs. X

4) No fighter vs Fighter mode as before - just some half-brained  fighter defence mode. X

5) No CV ship movement independent of the launching/returning of planes as before. X

6) CVs played more in anchor mode (not moving at all or very little) - just the thing that bad CV players used to do in RTS play. X

7) How often are the CVs of both sides (for the most part) the last or some of the last ships left in the battle?  X

8) Whatever happened to including the odd tier CVs into this CV rework? Seems to be a 'rush' job to me. XXX (an X for each missing odd tier)

9) How many other ships of the 3 other ship classes required alterations due to the CV rework? I don't know but I bet there had to be several. So this gets, you guessed it, another X.

How many 'X's, that is 'strikes' against the reworked CVs is this?  14, that's 14 clear strikes against the reworked CVs. 

In anyone's examination, this many 'Failings' is enough to stamp the CV rework project as a 'REJECT"

DDs used to be able to sink CVs  quickly (one of their roles). Now DDs are lucky if they can get close enough to even launch torps & more likely the CV  just rockets them to death first.

WG can claim the reworked CVs a success, ofc, & they are if you want an over dominant ship class which reworked CVs have  become simply because WG made them so (to prove their idea was correct ofc even when it is/was  not).

I REJECT the CV rework. To date it has to be the worst decision, imo, that WoWS has made.

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, Aethervoxx said:

What!?  ..'shamelessly overpowered RTS CVs...' Incorrect. The reworked CVs are the shamelessly overpowered CV(s) now.

A statement of ..'45 seconds in the game and he already killed half the team.' is a blatant exaggeration if not an outright lie.

 

Take a deep breath, read it again and think about the concept of "sarcasm".

[firerider202]

Vor 9 Stunden, Kriger3n sagte:

2: So you know what other people will do before they do it. That's an awesome power to have....

3: I cant say that CV's are a big problem for this game because i dont play them? Most people do not play them and still they dont want to play with them...

4: This forum is sadly the only way for people to give feedback to WG about the game. There is no other way. I've searched and been told this is where to go by WG. And this thread is the only place we should post feedback about CV's. Now i did not come here to discuss this with other players. I came to give feedback and end up in discussion with players that call the CV rework "a huge success". Not WG. As i said, i dont care what CV players that want to continue sealclubbing with their op class thinks. I only wants WG to adress the fact that so many people hate CV gameplay.

5: I was not talking to you. I havent seen you here before, but i obviously triggered something deep withing you.. Sorry.

 

Have a nice day.

Would you please READ First?

You literaly said that you dont care about any oppinion which is not against cvs. And I only said that i can UNDERSTAND the criticism, not that i share it.

Vor 12 Stunden, firerider202 sagte:

So, dont bother trying to give me your oppinion about CV's being a good thing beacuse It is my honest opinion, not. And there is nothing you can say to change my mind.

You were clearly not talking to me.

 

And yes I get triggert by people who think that their point of view is the only truth.

[Pikkozoikum]

7 hours ago, petrosadon89 said:

I know what CVs are in real life, the thing is that this is a game( not a very historically accurate one)where the vast majority of people enjoy playing with ships. Maneuverability, positioning, targeting etc... you say that you want to play with a CV but you are not actually doing it. You are flying with airplanes the whole time. You don't get it, do you?

As I said

Naval bombers are part of naval warfare. Those are supposed to bomb ships.

If someone don't want that, then this person should try to find a ships-only game. Though I'm not sure if that exists. I know only War Thunder, Steel Ocean, World of Warships.

All those games have aircrafts. Even single player games like Silent Hunter.

 

and the only thing, that I don't get is "CV but you are not actually doing it". That makes no sense. Playing a CV means controlling the aircrafts. It's like you want play a soldier game, but without a gun, only walking around. xD

 

[lt_Jack]

 

You need to improve the anti-aircraft of ships. It is not possible for a CV to break the balls and do a lot of damage without an airplane going down. You have made this game impossible for those who use DDs, the Cruisers suffer hallucinatory damage. Thanks for making this game a shame

[petrosadon89]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

As I said

Naval bombers are part of naval warfare. Those are supposed to bomb ships.

If someone don't want that, then this person should try to find a ships-only game. Though I'm not sure if that exists. I know only War Thunder, Steel Ocean, World of Warships.

All those games have aircrafts. Even single player games like Silent Hunter.

 

and the only thing, that I don't get is "CV but you are not actually doing it". That makes no sense. Playing a CV means controlling the aircrafts. It's like you want play a soldier game, but without a gun, only walking around. xD

 

No it's like you want to play a soldier game but YOU want to bomb them from a great distance without risk and consequences.Cvs in this game are airplane factories way OP than what they should. Do not talk to me about naval warfare because in naval warfare the CV is in the middle of the  fleet protected by smaller vessels, and not camped back alone at the edge of the map like a ....

[Pikkozoikum]

2 hours ago, petrosadon89 said:

No it's like you want to play a soldier game but YOU want to bomb them from a great distance without risk and consequences.Cvs in this game are airplane factories way OP than what they should. Do not talk to me about naval warfare because in naval warfare the CV is in the middle of the  fleet protected by smaller vessels, and not camped back alone at the edge of the map like a ....

You asked, why people want play CV, and I told you why I want play CV, and what you assume is wrong. I repeat it again: I like to play naval battles and I like naval aircrafts like the D3A1. I even showed you a picture of that plane. Are people not allowed to like naval aircrafts?

 

It doesn't matter, how the CV was in real life, as you said before, it's a game and a game has to make adaptions.

 

[RepSrb]

On 4/30/2020 at 3:41 AM, Sunleader said:

 

Just saying. But this kind of Sarcasm is not really Effective here...

 

 

The Official Targets of the Rework as stated by WG was to Reduce Complaints from the Community about CVs, Increase CV Player Population to the 5% Targets, Adjust Gameplay of CVs to be more in line with the General Games Design, Reduce CVs Influence on the Match Outcome especially by Reducing the Skillgap between CV Players which can knacker a Team if their CV Player is Bad, prevent a Situation where a CV is effectively out of the Game and is Forced to Wait because he is out of Planes and Finally make CV Interaction with the other Classes less Frustrating for other Players by Reducing the Damage and Preventing the CV from Devstrikes.

 

 

Now lets Check these Points 1 by 1 to see wether or not they were Succesful.

 

1.

Reduce Complaints of the Community about the CVs.

Well this one is a Clear Failure. CVs still are a completely Lost Post for WG in the Community. And the vast Majority of the Community still will Complain Heavily about CVs.

So Verdict on this: Clear Failure.

2.

Increase CV Player Population to the 5% Target.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200425/eu_2month/average_class.html

This one is a Minor Success. CV Population in High Tiers Increased from 2% to 3% which is pretty much a minor Failure. But Total CV Population Increased to 4.5% which is Close enough to be called a minor Success. Of course its a Phyrric Success in this Case. Because the main Reason for that Increase is thanks to Low TIer CV Population now being at a Staggering 7.2% which is mostly from Seal Clubbing Players that just Hammer low Tier Ships that cant Defend themselves due to lack of AA.

So Verdict on this: Phyrric Success.

3.

Adjust Gameplay of CVs to be more in line with the General Game Design.

Well this one is hard to Judge because its a very Subjective Part. In my Eyes this one is a Failure. Because CVs dont Play like the General Game at all. Their Balancing and Gameplay is completely Different from other Classes. And in General Playing CVs feels absolutely nothing like other Classes.

So Verdict on this: Subjective Failure.

But this one is my Opinion. There is no real way to Judge this Objectively.

4.

Reducing Influence of CVs on the Match especially by Reducing Skillgap between CVs.

Now this one is Objectively seen a Catastrophic Failure. By giving CVs the Ability to Target Destroyers and Blockade their Gameplay. As well as by the giving CVs the Ability to do Quick Successive Strikes rather than Building up a Massive Strike with a long Waiting Time. The CVs Influence on the Match has Skyrocketed. And while the Lack of Air Superiority Battle has somewhat evened out the Skillgap between CVs as one Side can no longer completely Deny Spotting from the other Side. The Skillgap thanks to CVs now needing an Iron Hard Judgment of the Battle Situation and an iron Clad Knowledge of Classes and their Capabilities has ended up being even Bigger in Total.

So Verdict on this: Minor Failure on Reducing Influence and Catastrophic Failure on Reducing the Skillgap.

5.

Preventing Situations where a CV Player is effectively Forced to just Sit and Wait thanks to being Deplaned.

This one is Objectively seen a Success. While it can still happen. And thus is not a Complete Victory for WG. The Chance of this happening and the Severety of it has been Decreased Significantly. Deplaning a CV is much Harder now. And if you get Deplaned your not out of the Match entirely as you at least get new Planes after some Waiting Time.

So Verdict on this: Clear Success.

6.

Make Interaction of CVs with other Classes less Frustrating by Preventing the CV from doing Dev Strikes on Players.

This one is another Phyrric Success. WG has Reached this Target. But it came at a Price which was ultimately Equal to the Original Problem. Because while its True that CVs can no longer just Devstrike Players. Their Strikes in Exchange have become Impossible to Prevent. While in RTS that Devstrike was Dangerous. It was still something you could usually Prevent by for example Def AA or Catapult Fighter or at least Heavily Mitigate by Dodging the Drop which had a Long Reaction Time between the Planes starting the Attack Run and thus no longer being Controllable by the Player even on Manual Strikes and the Actual Drop on you. Thanks to that the New System where in alot of cases you end up not being Capable of doing anything. Which is even more Frustrating than the Prior Dev Strike Ability.

So Verdict on this: Phyrric Success.

 

 

In Total I think its Pretty Obvious that the CV Rework has been a Massive Failure.

And Honestly Said. I doubt that WG Sees this Differently.

 

As I stated. All new Ships Implemented Generally come with Tremendous Anti CV Capabilities. Ships like Venezia and Halland are extremely Resilent against CV Attacks. And the New German CV Line with AP Rockets and 25 Knot Torpedoes effectively SCREAMS into your Face that WG wants to make absolutely Sure that these New CVs cannot Pound other Players with no real Option for them to Deny the Strike. Making sure that all Strikes can be Angled against or Dodged and that German CVs have effectively no real Chance to Drop on DDs.

 

Its extremely Obvious that WG is well aware of alot of Problems with the CV Rework and is Actively Trying to Mitigate them for old CVs and Prevent them on new CVs.

The Implementation of Submarines which now can basicly stay Submerged Forever and thus make themselves Completely Immune against CVs is another Sign for that.

 

 

People need to Remember. WG Balances solely by their Holy Spreadsheet whose Might over WG is Unchallenged and must not be Questioned under any Circumstances.

So as long as the Average Performance of CVs can be bought down to Acceptable Levels. WG considers it a Problem they can Deal with.

And just like with the Kremlin which thanks to AA Nerf now gets way worse Results in Matches with CVs and thus has its Average Performance Reduce even tough in Matches without CVs still being OP as Crab.

The CVs which in Average now Face more and more Battles with Enemies which are really Troublesome for them have their Average Performance Results Decreased by this even tough against the Old Ships they are still completely Domineering. German CVs replacing a Part of the CV Population will further Decrease that Average Performance as well. Especially will it Decrease the Average Influence on a Match that CVs as a Class have. Because German CVs cannot Hunt DDs and thus will have vastly less Influence on the Match. Which even tough Japanese CVs for example will still be Extremely Influental on every Match. Will reduce the Average Influence of CVs as a Class in Spreadsheet and therefore Satisfy WG.

Same for Subs which once Implemented will likely be mostly Unaffected by CVs and thus Reduce CV Influence and also DD Influence alot. Even if they dont do anything to these Classes when there is no Subs Present. The Average Influence the Class Shows in Spreadsheet will Drop heavily thanks to having Games with Submarines.

 

 

You just need to Understand the Holy Power of Spreadsheet. Once you Understand that everything is Fine and you can Reach Nirvana. :P

 

 

 

 

great post so i quote it!

Lets put things in perspective , they could have done that with rts carriers just reduce number of active torp planes from 4 to 2 for haku , and midway , and reduce torpedo damage. ez fix.

in rts times you had special  module for AA , and captain skills  that EXTEND AA CIRCLE so it was a guess for any carrier what is your AA range.

Now you dont !! And cv knows every aa circle each ship has , so its easy to plan and use tricks!

With bombers you go a bit left or right from ship centerline and the moment he uses flak you maneuver to other side of centerline just a bit and voila , you take 65% of AA damage , ahahahahahaahaah..... or dive with torp bombers full speed then 2 sec change normal speed then 2 sec slow speed - 0 flak taken.

if you fight good cv dont use AA boost....

AA cleveland had 7.2 range at t6 !!!!, now ships have fixed aa circle 5,5 -6 km that easy to dodge , .

 

[anonym_Cjp8u0uCiOvy]

I returned to the game wanting to quarantine, and I've already had to leave it because all I see is spam spam spam spam aircraft

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain_Lootbox]

just played a game with 4 CVs.  They got 12 kills between them .  [edited]WG.

[Wilhelm_von_Tegetthoff]

I just started to Play CVs again and while they are clearly OP on lower Tiers, in high Tier its not that bad. At T10 AA is very strong, especially if many ships are sailing together.

 

As for DDs and such, many ships do make mistakes, they dont maneuver, the dont use smoke, etc. so they are easy to farm, especially DDs who just sail straight…. You can mitigate a lot of the CV dmg, if you make him turn your planes you go from 6k dmg to 2k dmg which is not that bad in a DD. If you use smoke and turn off AA the CV will have to look for another target.

 

Now you say its unfair and bad game design, but your Team has a CV as well and imagine you run into a Smolensk in a Cap, good luck getting out alive.

 

I think there are not enough CVs around, if Players are more used to dealing with them, they might adapt a bit, sail in pairs at least, turn their ship more efficient,....

 

Not Talking About Tier IV, the situation is quite harsh there, but its also not fun for Cruisers if they are in a TX match with 5 BBs and 4 DDs per side.

[Lieut_Gruber]

18 hours ago, Distinctly_Average said:

just played a game with 4 CVs.  They got 12 kills between them .  [edited]WG.

I have had plenty of games where the BBs had all the kills, what is your point?

[Captain_Lootbox]

5 hours ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

I have had plenty of games where the BBs had all the kills, what is your point?

that was my point

[poopooo]

6 hours ago, Wilhelm_von_Tegetthoff said:

I just started to Play CVs again and while they are clearly OP on lower Tiers, in high Tier its not that bad. At T10 AA is very strong, especially if many ships are sailing together.

 

As for DDs and such, many ships do make mistakes, they dont maneuver, the dont use smoke, etc. so they are easy to farm, especially DDs who just sail straight…. You can mitigate a lot of the CV dmg, if you make him turn your planes you go from 6k dmg to 2k dmg which is not that bad in a DD. If you use smoke and turn off AA the CV will have to look for another target.

 

Now you say its unfair and bad game design, but your Team has a CV as well and imagine you run into a Smolensk in a Cap, good luck getting out alive.

 

I think there are not enough CVs around, if Players are more used to dealing with them, they might adapt a bit, sail in pairs at least, turn their ship more efficient,....

 

Not Talking About Tier IV, the situation is quite harsh there, but its also not fun for Cruisers if they are in a TX match with 5 BBs and 4 DDs per side. 

There is one thing that has not changed in the game since it left, the weakest ship is the cruise ship and the main one is the battleship.It is not strange that your cruise ship is hit in the citadel from behind or in front by shots from a battleship, which takes almost half your life, and if they wait and shoot you from the side it is possible that they will kill you with just one gust, this It has always seemed very unfair to me. Before, carriers caused enough damage against all types of ships, then they were fixed so that they did not cause so much damage, apart from increasing the AA damage of the ships making it suicide to attack two or three ships together. That is why I am amused by the complaints that the fixed carriers receive, but I do not hear any complaints about the impacts of the cruiser citadel  from the back at 18km for battleship shot.

 

 

[rnat]

10 hours ago, poopooo said:

the weakest ship is the cruise ship

You were saying ?

 

Back to topic: tbh what you were describing about cruisers v. BBs sounds more like a git-gud issue on behalf of the cruiser player to me.

The problem with CV - target interaction is that -unlike in your example- the counter-play is very limited and depends much more on the CV-players skill than your own.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

On 3/11/2020 at 1:18 PM, El2aZeR said:

A 1vs1 in the training room is indeed meaningless as it doesn't represent actual match conditions. There are no other ships you have to worry about and no objectives to contest.

Mic drop.

Then again, dumbest question ever asked to get this response.

So, no mic drop. More like a swipe left for catfish.

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 10 Stunden, LowSpeedHighDrag sagte:

Mic drop.

Then again, dumbest question ever asked to get this response.

So, no mic drop. More like a swipe left for catfish.

 

 

The training room helps identifying the raw skill of individual players because the CV has the luxury not to worry about outside influences and also doesn't get help from them either. He can solely focus that single DD or whatever ship and the same rules apply for the DD. 

 

It is great to determine the raw abilities of both players in the ships they are put in. 

 

Here are two Screenshots of the same ships taken in reverse. They will tell you the whole story. 

[Sunleader]

5 hours ago, Yoshanai said:

The training room helps identifying the raw skill of individual players because the CV has the luxury not to worry about outside influences and also doesn't get help from them either. He can solely focus that single DD or whatever ship and the same rules apply for the DD. 

 

It is great to determine the raw abilities of both players in the ships they are put in. 

 

Here are two Screenshots of the same ships taken in reverse. They will tell you the whole story. 

 

Hmm. But would that not actually be against your Interest then ?

Because if you yourself Admit that this is only Testing Personal Skills then this would also Confirm that this kind of Situation is not Relevant to CV Balancing Questions would it not ?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 18 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

 

Hmm. But would that not actually be against your Interest then ?

Because if you yourself Admit that this is only Testing Personal Skills then this would also Confirm that this kind of Situation is not Relevant to CV Balancing Questions would it not ?

It's not relevant to balancing at all. 

It can be used as great measure to show what potential is with CVs and can be definetly used as an argument against CVs. 

 

These exercises are mostly for training purposes and exploring possibilities. In random anything can happen. 

 

[Wulf_Ace]

hmm about CV and DD, how about that an allied CV can "attach" group of fighters to a DD for protection, lets say 2 or 3 fighters to 2 or 3 allied ships, that would be enough to at least  stop some of the rocket planes damage. Attaching would be done from any point not that you have to go to that ship and have to press T. Also, fighters would have of course their limit. What do you think?

[El2aZeR]

8 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

hmm about CV and DD, how about that an allied CV can "attach" group of fighters to a DD for protection, lets say 2 or 3 fighters to 2 or 3 allied ships, that would be enough to at least  stop some of the rocket planes damage. Attaching would be done from any point not that you have to go to that ship and have to press T. Also, fighters would have of course their limit. What do you think?

 

A great way to grief your own teammates by constantly giving away their position just like fighters do now. Won't even deny any strikes as you can just despawn them.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 2 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

 

A great way to grief your own teammates by constantly giving away their position just like fighters do now. Won't even deny any strikes as you can just despawn them.

Nothing better than that team player CV on the enemy team flying right where his DDs are with his rockets to drop fighters topkek

[Wulf_Ace]

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

A great way to grief your own teammates by constantly giving away their position just like fighters do now. Won't even deny any strikes as you can just despawn them.

with all those radars and CVs, their position is given away anyway