General CV related discussions.

[Pikkozoikum]

9 hours ago, Samyuel said:

What stat is important for you when you compare old CVs and new CVs ?

that stat, that fits with the arguments best :3

[Nibenay78]

44 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

that stat, that fits with the arguments best :3

Since all of them favour RTS CVs...

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, Nibenay78 said:

Since all of them favour RTS CVs...

You mean, to show how broken RTS was?

I think only the WR was worse, but the overall stat for WR are misleading in RTS times. I mean, what WR will you get, when Midway fights Midway? ;)

And now you have only Midway or Haku as possible enemies

[Nibenay78]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You mean, to show how broken RTS was?

I think only the WR was worse, but the overall stat for WR are misleading in RTS times. I mean, what WR will you get, when Midway fights Midway? ;)

And now you have only Midway or Haku as possible enemies

RTS was broken, and so is rework - whats your point?

 

except rework is boring to play and annoying as hell to play against. As a minimum defAA should give aim distruption

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

RTS was broken, and so is rework - whats your point?

You quoted me, I answered. Don't know, what you mean with that question

 

3 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

except rework is boring to play and annoying as hell to play against.

Guess fun is subjective. It's way more fun now than against an RTS CV. Especially when you play other ships than Minotaur (compare ships like Nagato)

But well, it's subjective.

[Nibenay78]

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You quoted me, I answered. Don't know, what you mean with that question

You clearly made a point how RTs was broken, but seeing that people still rule supreme in rework carriers, the situation is the same.

 

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Guess fun is subjective. It's way more fun now than against an RTS CV. Especially when you play other ships than Minotaur (compare ships like Nagato)

But well, it's subjective.

and yeah we've been over this before. You chose to play low-AA ships and suffered with CVs. I chose to play high AA ships and had less problems. Really strange eh?

If thats the argument, then a slight buff to the weaker AA ships would be ok? But hey now there is no serious option to chose DM or Minotaur to provide an AA strongpoint anymore, only to be a less tasty snack for the CV.

 

That's some improvement? Chosing/speccing AA ships to play a support for 3-4 of your own ships is a role that has disappeared. But teamplay is overrated, I am aware.

[Bear__Necessities]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

It's way more fun now than against an RTS CV

Yes, I had so much fun against 2 CV's in my mighty AA ship Nurnberg.... As they smacked me time and time again keeping me perma spotted. So much FUN.

[Nibenay78]

7 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Yes, I had so much fun against 2 CV's in my might AA ship Nurnberg.... As they smacked me time and time again keeping me perma spotted. So much FUN.

Just had an enjoyable round in the low-AA-ship Z-52 which is now buffed incredibly after the rework, and is much MUCH more fun to play. Enjoying continual strikes the last 5 minutes. And lets not forget the incredible impact the Minotaur had  (which was trailing behind me in the start, when me and others near him was attacked repeatedly).

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

10 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Just had an enjoyable round in the low-AA-ship Z-52 which is now buffed incredibly after the rework, and is much MUCH more fun to play. Enjoying continual strikes the last 5 minutes. And lets not forget the incredible impact the Minotaur had  (which was trailing behind me in the start, when me and others near him was attacked repeatedly).

 

 

But you shot down some planes. That means it's balanced. There is your counter *giggles* play right there....

[Nibenay78]

8 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

But you shot down some planes. That means it's balanced. There is your counter *giggles* play right there....

Yeah amazing

 

 

 

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

3 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Just had an enjoyable round in the low-AA-ship Z-52 which is now buffed incredibly after the rework, and is much MUCH more fun to play. Enjoying continual strikes the last 5 minutes. And lets not forget the incredible impact the Minotaur had  (which was trailing behind me in the start, when me and others near him was attacked repeatedly).

 

 

And the rework would perma spot your or just one shot you with a cross drop.

 

My last match in a BB was, that I got focsed from the beginning to end by the carrier. I destroyed 2 ships and then I retreated and survived with 40% hp the match. The exact same scenario would be impossible with RTS: Even if the CV would go with auto-drop, I would be dead.

 

If you take damage from a CV, it's probably not fun for you. But it's also not fun to take torpedo damage from a DD, HE dmg from cruisers, or AP dmg from BBs.

[Nibenay78]

25 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

And the rework would perma spot your or just one shot you with a cross drop.

I was basically permaspotted anyways the last 5+ minutes and a death from crossdrop would be preferable over this torture. I could have suicided of course but I like to try to do my best. My fault I know, I should not.

 

Quote

If you take damage from a CV, it's probably not fun for you. But it's also not fun to take torpedo damage from a DD, HE dmg from cruisers, or AP dmg from BBs.

It's not the damage itself, as WE BOTH AGREE RTS WAS OP ALSO, it was still a lot less annoying that this bullcrap. It's not like the CV was particularly adept due to the number of passes he needed, he probably would not be able to do a crossdrop either.

 

Edit: lets not forget the completely insanely low numbers of non-fighter kills despite how much I had planes overhead.

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

You chose to play low-AA ships and suffered with CVs. I chose to play high AA ships and had less problems. Really strange eh?

No one should suffer. And that's the case with the rework. Taking damage from an enemy is not "suffering" btw.

 

Suffering would be for me, if a BB gets sunk with the very first strike, while grouped with other ships and that alone by a carrier.

Or having a single DB squad, of ~5 total active squads, that can chase a DD for 5 to 15 minutes and spotting all their torpedos.

 

What we have is not really a suffering, many ways to play around it. I think also many people don't understand, how it is for a CV. if they miss a shot completly, then they might have a 40-60s reload. If people keep that in mind, then it's a big difference.

If I take a 5k-10k of a carrier every minute on a BB, then it takes quite a while to sink a BB. We actually saw that in the 1vs1 brawl, that they are not able to sink a single BB. And I don't call that suffering.

[Nibenay78]

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

No one should suffer. And that's the case with the rework. Taking damage from an enemy is not "suffering" btw.

Taking damage is not suffering, boring gameplay with the feeling of helplessness/uselessness is suffering. 

 

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

What we have is not really a suffering, many ways to play around it. I think also many people don't understand, how it is for a CV. if they miss a shot completly, then they might have a 40-60s reload. If people keep that in mind, then it's a big difference.

If I take a 5k-10k of a carrier every minute on a BB, then it takes quite a while to sink a BB. We actually saw that in the 1vs1 brawl, that they are not able to sink a single BB. And I don't call that suffering.

I'd rather sink faster but have opportunity to also screw up the CV, thx

 

Off to play some less frustrating game.

[Samyuel]

5 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I think only the WR was worse, but the overall stat for WR are misleading in RTS times.

Even by win rate its hard to judge, when you look at wows number on EU, the best WR for Hakuryu was 91.71% with 1135 battle and its insane. And when you compare to Hakuryu now the best have 88.07 with 109 battle.

And I would guess that all those stats include the period when the CV just got reworked and had way too much power. Some probably just used CV at that time to make their stats higher and then stopped playing CVs when they started to get nerfed.
 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Samyuel said:

Even by win rate its hard to judge, when you look at wows number on EU, the best WR for Hakuryu was 91.71% with 1135 battle and its insane.

1 hour ago, Samyuel said:

And I would guess that all those stats include the period when the CV just got reworked and had way too much power. Some probably just used CV at that time to make their stats higher and then stopped playing CVs when they started to get nerfed.

 

You have just defeated your own point. Not only did he rarely play solo, Maciejo has long left Haku behind.

90%+ WR is still perfectly possible in a CV with divs. The solo WR ceiling for CVs currently is 80-85%, for every other class it is 70-75%. Given that we're talking about the very top this is a staggering difference. And it was no different in RTS.

 

7 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

that stat, that fits with the arguments best :3

 

Says the guy moving to goalpost after goalpost.

Also implying that stats are subjective somehow.

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Suffering would be for me, if a BB gets sunk with the very first strike, while grouped with other ships and that alone by a carrier.

Or having a single DB squad, of ~5 total active squads, that can chase a DD for 5 to 15 minutes and spotting all their torpedos.
 

What we have is not really a suffering, many ways to play around it. I think also many people don't understand, how it is for a CV. if they miss a shot completly, then they might have a 40-60s reload. If people keep that in mind, then it's a big difference.

If I take a 5k-10k of a carrier every minute on a BB, then it takes quite a while to sink a BB. We actually saw that in the 1vs1 brawl, that they are not able to sink a single BB. And I don't call that suffering.

 

A RTS CV could not push strikes into AA formations, a reworked CV can. Anything a RTS CV can kill in a single strike, a reworked CV can kill either in the same strike rotation time or faster.

A reworked CV has no need to perma spot a DD, he can just kill it himself in a timely fashion. Ironically the very idea that a RTS CV needed to spot something instead of being capable of just dealing with it itself shows that RTS was less broken.

Any kind of "counterplay" either favors the enemy CV or is placebo and therefore not counterplay.

A 40-60s reload is a joke of a "punishment" given how reliable the damage output is. If it were actually fair then CVs would need to reload for at least 3 minutes - just like RTS CVs.

If you are only able to deal 5-10k per attack on a BB then that is due to your own incompetence.

CVs not only excelled in 1vs1, they dominated it assuming the CV player was skilled.

 

Not only do you spout your usual blatant lies, your own arguments ironically show how much more broken the rework is.

[Pikkozoikum]

59 minutes ago, Samyuel said:

Even by win rate its hard to judge, when you look at wows number on EU, the best WR for Hakuryu was 91.71% with 1135 battle and its insane. And when you compare to Hakuryu now the best have 88.07 with 109 battle.

And I would guess that all those stats include the period when the CV just got reworked and had way too much power. Some probably just used CV at that time to make their stats higher and then stopped playing CVs when they started to get nerfed.
 

Yes, I think many "top stats" are done, when the rework was just released

[Pikkozoikum]

11 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Says the guy moving to goalpost after goalpost.

Also implying that stats are subjective somehow.

Sounds like a misinterpretation.

 

 

11 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

A RTS CV could not push strikes into AA formations, a reworked CV can. 

It's not like you uploaded videos, that disprove that. One shotting BB groups etc xD

 

13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

A 40-60s reload is a joke of a "punishment" given how reliable the damage output is.

Imagine a BB with 30s reload misses a shot completly. Tell him the joke xD

 

14 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

If you are only able to deal 5-10k per attack on a BB then that is due to your own incompetence.

Who said, that I do that? Why trying to argue with that fallacy? 

I even said, if I TAKE that damage from a carrier xD

I mean at that point I just know, that you don't understand me, what I'm writing. No idea if it's intentional or bad communication. But that makes a discussion just pointless.

Also I'm pretty sure, that is around the average damage, that CVs do per attack. Though I know, you do only 20k hits xD

And all the other players are just to incompetent to beat the RNG :3

If a CV misses his attack 0 dmg. If he hits 20k. Average 10k. It makes zero sense to go with the maximum hits, when I talk about the whole and general case. Otherwise I could alos say, BBs do 60k every 30s. Does that make any sense? Please....

 

 

19 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

CVs not only excelled in 1vs1, they dominated it assuming the CV player was skilled.

They excelled, when the CV player was good and the surface ship player bad. But that counts for almost every ship.

I played 1vs1 against unicum CVs in the brawls, it was pretty easy.

 

21 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

blatant lies,

Eh yes, keep trying to discredit me, or just try to understand first.

 

 

 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

It's not like you uploaded videos, that disprove that. One shotting BB groups etc xD

 

Do tell where?

 

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Imagine a BB with 30s reload misses a shot completly. Tell him the joke xD

 

Precisely. A 30s reload for a completely missed salvo is an appropriate punishment for a BB because their damage output isn't reliable. It wouldn't be if BBs had the same level of reliability as CVs.

Thank you for making my point.

 

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

If a CV misses his attack 0 dmg. If he hits 20k. Average 10k. It makes zero sense to go with the maximum hits, when I talk about the whole and general case. Otherwise I could alos say, BBs do 60k every 30s. Does that make any sense? Please....

 

It makes sense for a CV because the damage output is reliable to a level that BBs cannot ever hope to reach.

Once again, thank you for making my point.

 

Besides, aren't you assuming the same thing for RTS CVs? It's always "you would have died instantly to a cross drop" or "a RTS CV would have oneshot you ez" without giving consideration to factors such as AA with your blatantly dishonest narrative. Hypocrisy much?

 

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

They excelled, when the CV player was good and the surface ship player bad. But that counts for almost every ship.

I played 1vs1 against unicum CVs in the brawls, it was pretty easy.

 

It doesn't matter how skilled the enemy player is because there is no skill based counterplay against CVs.

And I played against unicum BBs/cruisers/DDs in brawls, I never had any trouble killing them before they could hope to reach me or win by points. So? What relevancy does this have? The only relevant thing is the fact above.

 

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Eh yes, keep trying to discredit me, or just try to understand first.

 

You're discrediting yourself by posting things that are blatantly untrue, running away when it gets disproven only to return a few weeks later to once again spout the same blatant lies.

[SodaBubbles]

Hey! Just want to pop in and thank the staff and developers for the wonderful addition of ReWorked CVs. Wow is that too much fun! Being spotted all the time! Being repeatedly attacked! Having no counter! What a perfect mechanic!

Can't imagine the kind of mind that thinks that is fun. Just glad I dont share a home or company with such a mind. 

[Kadraaier]

Dear WOWS,

 

In my last random game our team had a CV player who said  he was 'not interrested in trying to win the game'.

He ended last in this, obvious, losing game.............................( a bought tier 8 CV)

After the match i saw he had a overall winrate of 35%.......................

 

WOWS: my idee = BAN CV players from playing RANDOM games when they have a winrate less then 48 %. ( or 45 % whatever.....??)
                    

I think this is more fun for ALL!?

( This gamefix is easy, so i gues it must have been suggessted in other /this topic.)

[Miscommunication_dept]

I would love a 12km laser on my DDs that would cause a battleship to damage con.

 

The whole thing is ridiculous. Subs need to be balanced with non homing torps. Not sure how though.

[arquata2019_]

15 ore fa, El2aZeR ha scritto:

You have just defeated your own point. Not only did he rarely play solo, Maciejo has long left Haku behind.

90%+ WR is still perfectly possible in a CV with divs. The solo WR ceiling for CVs currently is 80-85%, for every other class it is 70-75%. Given that we're talking about the very top this is a staggering difference. And it was no different in RTS.

 

But how can you maintain such high WR while playing alone? Can you still do that in 2021? Was just curious

[Bear__Necessities]

4 hours ago, arquata2019 said:

But how can you maintain such high WR while playing alone? Can you still do that in 2021? Was just curious

Some players are just that good. He is one of them. I'm happy hitting about 69% WR solo on NA. But I know there are still better than me. It's just the way life is. 

[El2aZeR]

6 hours ago, arquata2019 said:

But how can you maintain such high WR while playing alone? Can you still do that in 2021? Was just curious

 

Because back in the day Haku and CVs in general were broken af. With a full strike loadout it had 5 TB and 3 DB squads which just deleted anything even through AA, which was also nowhere near as powerful as it was towards the end of RTS.

 

It's the same reason why he maintained an absurdly high WR in Midway as well. He primarily played it when it was broken in the old days and then when it newly got buffed and as such was broken once again sometime towards the end of 2017 I believe.

 

The current WR ceiling for CVs caps out at ~85% - which again is no different compared to RTS towards their end.