General CV related discussions.

[El2aZeR]

14 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Doesn't matter if Midway is op or not. In this match, she wasn't and I had fun. Also it's not only be proven by me, everyone can see, what happend.

 

So whether YOU had fun or not can be proven by someone else? Really?

 

14 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

And yet entire squads get killed. And yet it makes a difference, if a squadron can attack 1 time or 2 times.

 

Because the player did not even make the slightest effort to evade flak, not because he made a mistake in evasion. It is beyond obvious that the CV player just flew in a straight line in the gif and as such was bound to get their entire squad wiped.

 

Again, if you clip flak while evading it makes practically no difference. This is not an example of a player just clipping flak.

 

14 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You interpretation astonishes me always.

 

Reality is not subject to interpretation.

[Pikkozoikum]

5 minutes ago, Yosha_nai said:

that's okay. 

 

 

But we should really talk about high potential of what CVs can do and could do. So realistically it should never matter that your Yoshino kekked on some pepega CV players squad. 

Happens more often, then you think. And it's always fun. Though if you are interested, we could go for some training room session.

Not for anything like "Hah, I was right, you were wrong" , more for testing reasons. In a training room the CV player will be way more focused on doing good, which is pretty unrealistic. Battles are way more chaotic, or people play it way more casual.

So the test would be about a try hard.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Yosha_nai said:

It would matter however if that same thing happend against me regularly for example. Then I would be able to come to an agreement with you. But since me striking a Yoshino in a similar situation is basically not possible because I know that I will be wasting time it's automatically like arguing on the effectiveness of AA in a bad scenario for the CV and the state of the CV players skill. 

Depending on the situation a CV can strike every ship. But can also fail against every ship. Myself I strike also Yoshinos, DMs, Stalins etc.

It's not about proofing to say flak is so op, that no CV has a chance. But it clearly shows, that it has an effect. Not always, but sometimes. So sometimes I deny strikes. Smaller flak hits help to depleted the squadron for additonal strikes.

If the CV can only do 1 strike, then he is less effective than a CV, that can strike 2, 3 times another target.

And if that 1 strike is also suboptimal, it will do 0 to few damage.

That all can happen, but it can also happen, that a lucky hit strikes.

 

And it's not about, "what could happen", because then we can also expect, that a Yamato one hits other ships. But how relevant is that fact?

 

12 minutes ago, Yosha_nai said:

That's why I said any ship besides Yoshino would have been effective in your example with flak. 

I don't think so, The distribution of flak is different, when having only 5 or 6, or 11

If you want, we can do the test. 11 flak vs 6 flak

 

 

11 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

There's two things with that. 

1. You were with allies. So either they were also at the back or you were doing it wrong (Yoshino is long range HE spam or will not survive long). 

2. FDR attacking a Yoshino that has some friends around is certainly doing it wrong.

 Two wrongs do not make a right, it is just a question who got hit the hardest there, he failed the most. 

1. It was at the beginning of match the first strike and a BB got striked

2. The BB got attacked, my Long range was working for that

 

The thing is, it's impossible to talk about a topic, if it's always like "but he did wrong", without considering, that the whole game is about such stuff. If a cruisers shows broadside and gets surprised, then he did also wrong. If a BB pushes, then he also does wrong.
If something gets heavy hits, then it's in most cases something, that someone did something wrong. So technically, if that is a point, then we can't talk about balancing, because there will be always such disqualifying arugment.

 

Zao is balanced. You don't perform good? Well , then you do wrong ...  Kappa ^^

 

 

[El2aZeR]

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But it clearly shows, that it has an effect. Not always, but sometimes. So sometimes I deny strikes. Smaller flak hits help to depleted the squadron for additonal strikes.

 

Whether it happens or not is entirely in the hands of the CV player, which in a PvP game is fundamentally broken from a design perspective.

Again, smaller flak hits rarely have any effect, as such do not help in the vast majority of situations.

 

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I don't think so

 

Then you think wrong. This CV player took a direct flak hit to the face, meaning only the middle part of flak is relevant. Therefore any ship that spawns a large amount of flak directly in the path of the squadron, the maximum amount of which is 6, would have done the same thing. That Yoshino spawns a potential 11 flak is completely irrelevant in this case because the squadron was only ever going to hit 6 of them as the other 5 flak bursts will spawn towards the edge of a flak wall away from any planes.

 

Do at least educate yourself on flak mechanics before attempting to talk about them.

[AndyHill]

Yoshino AA might feel effective, because it's naturally a backline spammer, which makes it the least affected ship type. As mentioned earlier, backline spammers are the least relevant target and least likely to be attacked by a good player in the first place. Additionally, backline spammers are spotted a lot of the time anyway as they fire their guns and getting spotted by planes is unlikely to impact their gameplay or even their options for maneuvering. Finally, by the virtue of how kiting spammers tend to play, they are usually in a kiting angle at a range from nearest ships and thus ready to minimize the effect of incoming fire as well as maneuver optimally against air attacks.

 

Still, even though in the above example the carrier had the absolute power to pick the fight and screwed it up as horribly as possible, the engagement ended in a 0-0 draw where neither party did any damage to each other. 

[Nov_A]

On 7/20/2021 at 3:31 PM, Panocek said:

Then raise tickets to WG support about server stability, unless issue is on your end, either due to patchy wifi connection or ISP having a stroke.

At the same time, desync was affecting surface ships with varying severity for as long as I remember... so working as intended comrade

Despite my prejudices and bad experience with the WG customer support, this actually fixed it.

 

I got mad because right after the previous patch my server connection with WG went sour and my game was an absolute annoyance, while the WG tool showed nothing and other online services worked fine, but in the end the tech support was able to confirm that it was my ISP having trouble reaching them during high traffic times and it got worked out.

 

Sorry WG for being rewd

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Doesn't matter if Midway is op or not. In this match, she wasn't and I had fun.

The thing is, a ship is broken or OP, and that doesn't change if some pepega plays it. 

But I can understand why you had fun, it is always fun when someone that has an OP/broken ship manages to FF it up. 

Like winning a streetrace against a Bugatti Veyron in your Suzuki Alto, because he blew the engine. Feeling even better. 

 

Doesn't mean you can't have fun (lots of pepegas...), but usually you lose without even a chance. 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

So sometimes I deny strikes.

This is the thing that you do not see. YOU do not deny strikes, the CV player ff-d it up (badly). 

Which doesn't make it any less fun IMO, probably just even more satisfying.

[Nibenay78]

50 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

This is the thing that you do not see. YOU do not deny strikes, the CV player ff-d it up (badly). 

Which doesn't make it any less fun IMO, probably just even more satisfying.

I think @Pikkozoikum isnt playing the same game as us.

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

I think @Pikkozoikum isnt playing the same game as us.

I think he is sort of making up his own definitions. 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

@YabbaCoe Is it possible to first finish the CV rework before we get this other class added to the game?

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

20 hours ago, AndyHill said:

Yoshino AA might feel effective, because it's naturally a backline spammer, which makes it the least affected ship type. As mentioned earlier, backline spammers are the least relevant target and least likely to be attacked by a good player in the first place. Additionally, backline spammers are spotted a lot of the time anyway as they fire their guns and getting spotted by planes is unlikely to impact their gameplay or even their options for maneuvering. Finally, by the virtue of how kiting spammers tend to play, they are usually in a kiting angle at a range from nearest ships and thus ready to minimize the effect of incoming fire as well as maneuver optimally against air attacks.

 

Still, even though in the above example the carrier had the absolute power to pick the fight and screwed it up as horribly as possible, the engagement ended in a 0-0 draw where neither party did any damage to each other. 

That makes no sense, why would ever someone messure the effectivness of the AA by the number of attacks? The only thing, you could analize around that is, if the AA is strong, than CVs might be scared to attack.

But I was never talking about, "I get rarely attacked, so thats why AA is good", I was talking about, how the AA performs, when I get attacked.

 

18 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The thing is, a ship is broken or OP, and that doesn't change if some pepega plays it. 

But I can understand why you had fun, it is always fun when someone that has an OP/broken ship manages to FF it up. 

Like winning a streetrace against a Bugatti Veyron in your Suzuki Alto, because he blew the engine. Feeling even better. 

 

Doesn't mean you can't have fun (lots of pepegas...), but usually you lose without even a chance. 

 

In this context, it doesn't even matter, if broken op or underpowered. It was fun to play with AA

Though I probably also have a different definition of broken op. The CV might be more influencial, but in my definition not broken op. To get the CV broken OP, it would need a big dmg buff, one shotting BBs etc. That would be broken

The major issue, that I could see, is the spotting. I did a lot suggestions, how to solve it, but WG doesn't like those ideas, so that's what we have to live with.

 

 

18 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

This is the thing that you do not see. YOU do not deny strikes, the CV player ff-d it up (badly). 

Which doesn't make it any less fun IMO, probably just even more satisfying.

That's a weird view.... because nobody does anything, it's always the enemy, who fucked it up... xD

Of course, he couldn't evade the Flak. But ships, that take broadside shots also couldn't avoide those. So they also [edited]it up.

I activated the DefAA, I skilled for that, I moved into a very bad position for him (Broadside, but sailing away... I did a turn, when I saw the CV on distance approach this direction).

So my movement made it worse for him, and more likely, that he [edited] it up. The best way is to move full speed away, then they are longer in the Flak, stuff like that is something, that you can do as surface ship.

 

 

17 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

I think @Pikkozoikum isnt playing the same game as us.

Well, I'm just less on the hater-train v_v

 

17 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I think he is sort of making up his own definitions. 

Everyone does his own definitions, or an own valuation. For some it's op, if a CV does 5k dmg, for some not.

I actually got lately quite heavy hits from a CV, first 5k, than 14k, later I think 5k again. Though the issue was not the CV. It was my team, that retreated, and the enemy team, that pushed and of course my stationary position in Shiki, that I couldn't leave.

If I could think of an alternate scenario, than there are some way worse. Instead of the CV a HE-Spammers, that burn me down way faster or maybe even a Thunderer.

 

But different definitions or not, I had fun, I showed that, no idea why this is such an issue for you. If I would show a 40k Shiki hit on 20km distance on a Kremlin, and I would say, this is fun, the reactions would be completly different.

It wouldn't be about me, that I did good, it would be, that the Kremlin fucked it up + RNG

 

[Pikkozoikum]

3 hours ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

@YabbaCoe Is it possible to first finish the CV rework before we get this other class added to the game?

 

 

Actually I think the rework is finished since a long time. Though they keep changing. Similar to the Radar-change with the Delay or the AP pens on DDs. So it will be never changed in that meaning, I assume.

Also I'm not sure, if that are even the same developers.

If there are needed changes in mechanics, that will ge developers, that can actually change the engine or implement it in the engine. While Balance changes can be just some stats playing

[BLUB__BLUB]

26 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That's a weird view.... because nobody does anything, it's always the enemy, who fucked it up... xD

In this case, it IS the enemy that FFd up. 

 

Quote

Of course, he couldn't evade the Flak.

He could have, easily. His decision to attack your ship, which was in a group, was dumb to start with.

As such, he has brought this on himself. 

 

Quote

But ships, that take broadside shots also couldn't avoide those. So they also [edited]it up.

Yes, usually THAT is a FF-up by the player. If you do not show broadside, it will not happen. So yes they FFd it up. 

The exception there is when an unspotted BB reks you, because you didn't see him, and so you "showed broadside". 

You cannot avoid what is not seen. Even so, this is "map awareness": was he spotted before, should you have expected him to be there, ready to shoot you?

THAT might have been good play by the BB. Stay hidden until he doesn;t expect you - then BLAP him. 

 

Quote

I activated the DefAA, I skilled for that, I moved into a very bad position for him (Broadside, but sailing away... I did a turn, when I saw the CV on distance approach this direction).

So my movement made it worse for him, and more likely, that he [edited] it up. The best way is to move full speed away, then they are longer in the Flak, stuff like that is something, that you can do as surface ship.

Yes THAT is true and those are good moves. 

However, your AA alone would NOT have had this effect. 

 

Quote

Everyone does his own definitions, or an own valuation. For some it's op, if a CV does 5k dmg, for some not.

Your definition of OP is weird, also the definition of "broken". You also have some other weird stuff going on. 

Broken = has some mechanic that can be exploited. 

OP = has the same mechanic as other ships, however in some idiot form.

As in Petropavlovsk, which is both broken and OP. Thunderer as just OP. 

Difference is, to fix "OP"you just have to nerf/buff some stuff. 

To fix "broken" you have to change more. 

 

Quote

I actually got lately quite heavy hits from a CV, first 5k, than 14k, later I think 5k again. Though the issue was not the CV. It was my team, that retreated, and the enemy team, that pushed and of course my stationary position in Shiki, that I couldn't leave.

If I could think of an alternate scenario, than there are some way worse. Instead of the CV a HE-Spammers, that burn me down way faster or maybe even a Thunderer.

CVs are - as such - not OP. Their hitpower is "chipping damage" (maybe not on FDR, but still). 

And in a T10 CV, which is a capital ship, you should do similar damage in a game as a similar tier BB or heavy cruiser. 

But CVs are broken: there is nothing that you can do to retaliate. You can only try to avoid/mitigate their damage output.

 

Quote

But different definitions or not, I had fun, I showed that, no idea why this is such an issue for you. If I would show a 40k Shiki hit on 20km distance on a Kremlin, and I would say, this is fun, the reactions would be completly different.

It wouldn't be about me, that I did good, it would be, that the Kremlin fucked it up + RNG

Depends on how you got that Shiki hit. However, having fun is a personal experience. 

If you have fun just keep on doing so, this is a game and you should have fun. This is no issue for me at all.

However it is an issue when you present something that is not you doing well, but the other player FF-ing it up, and then saying "see it is not so bad it works". 

What you did there is not proof that AA is good enough. Only proof that it is good enough when a CV-player FF-d it up (but... YES it is still good fun if he does). 

 

Also, this game is about killing/ff-ing up the other team/player. 

It is perfectly OK to have fun when somebody else screws it up and you get some points for that. 

In fact it would be hilarious and a good laugh if they all FF-d up really bad, and you take the points. 

 

I'll give you an example: I was in Edinburgh, and chased down a DD. 

I thought that DD was a Pan- EU, and has deepwater torps, so he could not hit me. 

So I chased him into his smoke, turneed broadside to give him a good BLAP,

then found out it was not the Asashio but a Yu-Yang, ate all his torpedoes... 

I bet HE HAD GOOD FUN... 

[AndyHill]

25 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That makes no sense, why would ever someone messure the effectivness of the AA by the number of attacks? The only thing, you could analize around that is, if the AA is strong, than CVs might be scared to attack.

But I was never talking about, "I get rarely attacked, so thats why AA is good", I was talking about, how the AA performs, when I get attacked.

I literally said "feel", which is the polar opposite of "measure". Also I wasn't referring to what you specifically might feel since it's as hard to measure and communicate as "fun", I was talking about a more generic case. And yes, if some ship a) rarely gets attacked, b) doesn't suffer from being spotted and c) doesn't suffer from getting focus fired a lot, its AA might FEEL effective because you don't get hurt by planes a lot even if it has little to do with the AA.

[Nibenay78]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well, I'm just less on the hater-train v_v

No you are on a different planet. 

 

Anways let me know when they get ballistic missile subs with nukes, I will reinstall and try how fun it is. I mean fun is a subjective thing. Maybe it will be great to basically have no gameplay.

[arquata2019_]

Alle 12/8/2021 alle 14:41, Yosha_nai ha scritto:

However no ship would be effective if the CV player was me or el2a 

can i join the party too?

 

Alle 12/8/2021 alle 14:44, BLUB__BLUB ha scritto:

I think CVs are broken AF, so the ones that are knowledagable can abuse them. 

and that is true :D

i mean, we all know that xd

[159Hunter]

8 hours ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

@YabbaCoe Is it possible to first finish the CV rework before we get this other class added to the game?

 

 

You actually believe WG dares to venture into the dark realms of the sticky CV topic  

[Pikkozoikum]

59 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

No you are on a different planet. 

Probably the right one.

 

59 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Anways let me know when they get ballistic missile subs with nukes, I will reinstall and try how fun it is. I mean fun is a subjective thing. Maybe it will be great to basically have no gameplay.

If the gameplay is so unfun, then I would look for a game, that has fun gameplay. Games are supposed to be fun.

[Kyorinn]

12.08.2021 saat 15:41'de, Yosha_nai dedi:

However no ship would be effective if the CV player was me or el2a 

so there is only 2 cv players in this game
interesting

[Spitfirex250]

I made a long post in the Suggestions thread on the CV topic if anybody cares. Feel free to comment here on it.

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

In this case, it IS the enemy that FFd up. 

Yes, and you always can describe a scenario from two sides. If you play counter strike and the enemy gets killed. you can always they, he f*cked up, or the player played well.

 

You can play perfectly a match, but then you lose, because your team mates f*cked up

You play without any mistakes, neither the enemy does, but he loses, because you got the better ship. So the enemy f*cked up, by having the weaker ship.

 

You can always disconnect the responsibility from your own doing, and they, "it's because the others f*cked up"

 

While taking the AA flaks has nothing to do with my active aiming, it still has to do with me

-deciding to activate DefAA

-to analyze is pathing and turn in a good position

-skilling AA +flak. 11 Flak hits more than 5

 

He wouldn't [edited]up, if I would go with a no AA build and moving straight towards him.

 

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

He could have, easily. His decision to attack your ship, which was in a group, was dumb to start with.

As such, he has brought this on himself. 

Well, afterwards you can always easily say "Oh it was that mistakes" That is an oberserver effect. Even know you probably would say "Yes, but it's obvious, I would never do that" - but then, how do you know ,that I use DefAA and an AA skill spec? You don't know, he didn't know, but then he could feel it.

 

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes, usually THAT is a FF-up by the player. If you do not show broadside, it will not happen. So yes they FFd it up. 

The exception there is when an unspotted BB reks you, because you didn't see him, and so you "showed broadside". 

You cannot avoid what is not seen. Even so, this is "map awareness": was he spotted before, should you have expected him to be there, ready to shoot you?

THAT might have been good play by the BB. Stay hidden until he doesn;t expect you - then BLAP him. 

Yes, and the same did I.

I observed the enemy planes, moved into a better position to not get rekt by bombers.

 

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes THAT is true and those are good moves. 

However, your AA alone would NOT have had this effect. 

My AA wouldn't have that effect, if I move max speed towards the planes and reduce the time inside the long range. So I can influence the long-range AA time, which can lead to more flak hits.

The only thing is, that I can't aim manually, but I don't know, why that must be a condition.

 

You could even say, that aiming with main guns is almost like auto aim. The vertical dispersion is locked on a ship, the horizontal is following the lead. And a dynamic crosshair is even telling, how far to aim. And then there is still dispersion.

It's not a FPS, where good aiming is really relevant.

 

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Your definition of OP is weird, also the definition of "broken". You also have some other weird stuff going on. 

Broken = has some mechanic that can be exploited. 

OP = has the same mechanic as other ships, however in some idiot form.

As in Petropavlovsk, which is both broken and OP. Thunderer as just OP. 

Difference is, to fix "OP"you just have to nerf/buff some stuff. 

To fix "broken" you have to change more. 

Why is Petro broken? It's just op imo

Petro just needs adjustments, for example removing the overpowered armor layouts. maybe at least reduce it to 32 mm, so the big IJN guns are more relevant again.

 

In my definition broken would mean unplayable. If something broken is in the game, that it makes no sense to play it. I assume some would say "yes, that's the cv", but I don't see , that games with CV are unplayable.

 

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

CVs are - as such - not OP. Their hitpower is "chipping damage" (maybe not on FDR, but still). 

And in a T10 CV, which is a capital ship, you should do similar damage in a game as a similar tier BB or heavy cruiser. 

But CVs are broken: there is nothing that you can do to retaliate. You can only try to avoid/mitigate their damage output.

Why is that broken? Because if that is a broken mechanic, than the game is broken by default. There is all the time "damage" that can be only avoided/mitigated to some degree without any realiation

Also the RTS CV was broken even more, imo. So it's better now. Less "broken"

 

I remember a Halland, that wasn't spotted the first 15 minutes, and only then she got spotted for a few seconds to stay hidden the rest of the match.

 

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Depends on how you got that Shiki hit.

But I explained how? ;D

 

 

Did I say 40k, I mean 60k... that was fun :3

 

ps.: I just noticed, that this kremlin has survival expert, lol

 

 

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

However it is an issue when you present something that is not you doing well, but the other player FF-ing it up, and then saying "see it is not so bad it works". 

What you did there is not proof that AA is good enough. Only proof that it is good enough when a CV-player FF-d it up (but... YES it is still good fun if he does). 

I disagree. All the fun comes with enemies, who f*ck up.

If an enemy doesn't f*ck up, and you play well, then it's a gameplay like two ships bow in camping and farming down their HP, until someone wins or retreats.

 

 

And well, it's a see, it's not that bad. because what I showed is more likely, then people are here complaining about it. It also correlates, if AA would be bad (Like in RTS times for many ships), then I wouldn't have fun. In RTS times, I often had no fun.

 

Though the AA back then was also only about CVs, who "f*cked up" in that aspect, it's not like you could manipulated the rolling dices of the plane kills.

 

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I'll give you an example: I was in Edinburgh, and chased down a DD. 

I thought that DD was a Pan- EU, and has deepwater torps, so he could not hit me. 

So I chased him into his smoke, turneed broadside to give him a good BLAP,

then found out it was not the Asashio but a Yu-Yang, ate all his torpedoes... 

I bet HE HAD GOOD FUN... 

Yes, all about players, who f*ck up. I mean, he could miss the torps and play bad. But I would say, then he also f*cked up ;)

 

This game is so slow, the gap between good and very good is imo quite small. It's mostly about players, who play bad.

But in case of good players or very good players, they all know, when they can show broadside and when not. They know, when they are outnumbered or not. It's a difference, if games are fast paced like Counter Strike, or League of Legends, which not only need knowlegdge but also fast reaction. Not only by Aim, but also fast decision making.

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

9 minutes ago, Spitfirex250 said:

I made a long post in the Suggestions thread on the CV topic if anybody cares. Feel free to comment here on it.

You might quote it.

 

In case you don't know how. (I assume in another thread?) You click quote, then

Ctrl + A selecting all

Ctrl + C copy

and Ctrl + V pasting it here.

[Nibenay78]

34 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Probably the right one.

Probably so as you seem to enjoy the rework. Good for you!

 

 

34 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

If the gameplay is so unfun, then I would look for a game, that has fun gameplay. Games are supposed to be fun.

Correct, at one point I would have said WoWs is one of the most fun games I have played. Before I even welcomed the occational CV match that happened.

 

8 minutes ago, Spitfirex250 said:

I made a long post in the Suggestions thread on the CV topic if anybody cares. Feel free to comment here on it.

Noone relevant (read: WG managers) cares and the rest of us are irrelevant. We tried also.

[Spitfirex250]

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You might quote it.

 

In case you don't know how. (I assume in another thread?) You click quote, then

Ctrl + A selecting all

Ctrl + C copy

and Ctrl + V pasting it here.

Some gameplay ideas for CV and Surface&CV interaction.
One thing I need to make clear. Im not going to argue that the rework needs to be undone or anything of the sort. Im merely presenting ways to make the current CVs work and to especially, BE FUN. Im taking the 3D, or well 2.5D (to be more accurate) squad system and altering it.

1) Manual AA
Seriously please, please, please just let us control our own AA. Leave the DPS DoT dmg on the machineguns for automatic. And make it consistent, X amount of damage per second, every second.

Why: - AA and playing against planes is boring and most of all frustrating, you are helpless and theres nothing you feel you can do.
          - This would add skill to the CV-Surface interaction and remove frustration on both sides. One is reliant on RnG to save them and the other is fighting against and RnG mechanic. The CV isnt actually fighting the ships

             its attacking and the surface ship in fighting the CV that is attacking it. They are both fighting or rather, passively sitting there while RnG does the work of the actual encounter.
          - Also would add skill on the CVs side as he needs to do dodge flank from the player he is attacking and also do on the fly estimations for how long he can spend in the ships AA before he loses his planes.

 

Following this it is also necessary add the following 2 points:
2) Remove the aim mechanic on the attacking flight (for TBs):
Perhaps add a slight devation chance for the torpedo of a few degrees (accounting for a chance of instability of the torpedo when it hits the water and might slightly alter its course)
But generally the torpedo needs to be dropped in the direction the plane is actually facing, not 30 degrees to the left or some other nonsense.
DBs can retain the reticle narrowing with aiming, etc.

 

Why: - If manual AA is implemented then, obviously, human players are going to be far more accurate than RnG AI. As such the pilot is going to have to make sudden changes of altitude, speed and course to attempt to dodge

           concentrated clouds of flak in his path.

 

3) Allow us to actually, well..... fly....:
Add altitude and speed controls. Planes... are well, planes... they fly. As such we should be able to adjust that. Speed up or slow down with a Short duration WEP for emergencies.
When you begin your attack run with TBs you get benefits and disadvantages depending on your starting altitude. If you start high and make long dive you come in very fast but obviously you are less manouverable and dont have much time to make adjustments, which would be preferable against targets with strong AA DPS and loads of flak guns, but your set up needs to be ideal or it will fail.
Low altitude aproaches giving little speed but plenty of manouverability and time to make a perfect attack run also if you want to sneak up on somebody you can use island cover to mask your approach.
Preferable against manouverable targets with weak AA, that see you coming from far away (where speed wouldnt make much difference).

Why: - this one feels obvious... flying is fun... even this barebones and extremely arcadey flight model can be fun especially when you skillfully use it to dodge a well placed flak barrage of your oppent that you see would have hit you

            if you hadnt skillfully avoided it.
 

4) Allow us to set the size of Attacking flights and limited hangar space again:
Im not saying per number of individual planes but on a squad basis. That also being dependent on Nation giving them all their flavour. Japanese should get 3 plane sized squads. and you can adjust up to a limited number. Lets say 4 as is now. 12 planes. Different nations had their own squad sizes, this can be played with.
Also add a trade off to selecting a given flight size. Bigger squad longer cooldown times, YES, cooldown times. Im talking in the minute range. Something like 45 seconds for each squad. 12 planes then being 3 minutes or even longer given you have two squadrons to play with. Its dumb that I have to send a full squad up then drop torps in the middle of nowhere cause I dont want to lose my entire squad when I know I either dont need it: (target is low HP or target has heavy AA).
And remove the wave attacking BS, with the long cooldown times I think this is fair. When you attack with a flight you attack with the whole flight, end of story.
This also adds a balancing factor for the CV, does he want to attack often with his planes in small squads and low risk flights. After all if you loses just 1 squad or 2 is better than risking an entire 12 planes or so die, crippling him.
Or does he think he needs a massed strike and is it safe to do so.

 

Also cooldown in between. When planes are landing, give a cooldown to flight deck operations until the landing flight is stowed in the hangar, etc. Takeoff? Cooldown. You get the idea.
So you also have a limited amount of squads. Planes so being handled on a squad basis. Once you do your drop and make it back to your carrier as right now. Selecting a new flight and number of squads.
You also have a small amount of reserve planes. So lets say Kaga gets 24 planes, enough for two full squadrons. With a couple (3, 5, 7 something like that) of planes in reserve if you lose a plane or two. But once thats depleted you begin to lose planes in the squads and the squads themselves.
(MAYBE)There is also perhaps no mixing of squad planes. So if that squad loses two planes and another one loses only one. Those will not meld into a new squad. That one can only be sent as a single plane squad.
 

Why: - Personally I think that its far more fun to have to the ability to send a large attack and do a lot of damage in a single strike even if you have to wait a long time after.
          - Also plenty of skill in decision making to adjust the size to the task. If you need a large attack to neutralize a dangerous target quickly, knowing that you will have to spend a long time perhaps doing nothing.

          - Guessing the losses and estimating what you need and when according to the task and not unnecessarily prolonging your ineffective time of doing nothing.

 

5) Introduce scout planes:
Bear with me this will take a little bit of explanation.
So most carriers had scout planes they would send out to scout the enemy. So add the option to send a fan of planes on a bearing, they would fly on their predetermined path in a fan and then return on slightly altered course.

I AM NOT SAYING to add controllable scouts ala RTS CV. These planes fly their predetermined course and once it is set you cannot change it. As such this is the only plane type that ought to be unlimited or a quite high number, enough to be all lost if the CV is utterly careless, but not so punishing that one mistake could render the CV blind in the first 5 minutes (testing would be needed to figure this out). Since you have no control after you send them and they can get shot down. 
Limiting their spotting range and fixing it to a set number given ship type might be a good idea, though this is hard to say. Perhaps 10 km for Battleships, 8 km for cruisers, 3 km for DDs and 1.5 to 2 km for SS in my mind. And they would be detected very far away. Around 11-12 km allowing DDs to see them coming way before make preperations. Seeing how many there are to either move between them if the search pattern is sparse, smoke up if its very dangerous and the DD cannot just evade detection, or let it self be spotted for the short window of time that the planes are above him if he is in no danger and there arent any enemy ships nearby to be a threat. He can also adjust his course and speed to minimize the time spent spotted.

Again the planes will merely fly over him so the spotting window will be quite short. Depending on the course of the DD, could be from 1 or 2 minutes.
Very similar to radar. A DD can outspot a cruiser easily, so it has time to react and plan how to deal with the threat, evade it and stay out of radar range, bait the radar or simply leave and go somewhere else. And at worst he is going to be spotted 20, 30, 45 or almost a minute depending on the radar.

a) You can set the fan distance. How far you want to send them out. This affects obviously how long they are going to be unavaible to scout somewhere else. And exposing them to danger. The farther and longer they fly, obviously

     the higher the chance they are intercepted or run into a ship that might shoot them down.

b) Area (How many degrees from the first to the last plane in the fan (10, 20, 30, 45, 60 and last one maybe being like a full 90)

c) Number (How many do you want in a given area. How much of a hole do you want to risk leaving for smaller ships, especially DDs and subs to exploit and evade detection.

 

This adds the ability for the CV to help with scouting while not being utterly broken by just hovering over or near the enemy ship out of their AA and always spotting them. There is a limited window of opportunity for the target to be shot, such as with radar. So if there is a target on low HP lets say. And the CVs scouts arent already all occupied with scouting or on cooldown. It can send the scouts and give his team and opportunity to finish an enemy ship without having to waste time manually flying his planes there. And as said the time spent spotting is limited so the ship has the chance to evade the scouts or enemy fire to survive.
Why: - Giving CVs some utility without making it broken and OP, making CVs more versitile to their than just boring damage farmers.
          - Giving the players stuff to do while their attack planes are either on cooldown or on a long flyout to their target.

          - Also FORCES CVs to maintain their situational awareness by monitoring the minimap, to see where they can utilize their scout planes.

6) FIGHTERS, FIGHTERS, FIGHTERS:
Bring back, actually usefull fighters but again with significant changes. Fighter could ONLY be sent out with a target they need to protect. You select the fighters in menu or something, click on an allied asset and they will protect it for a certain amount of time.

Again giving CVs a purpose outside of damage farming. Seeing ships that have low HP or that are often under air attack by enemy CV to deny him strikes UNLESS he commits his own fighters to defending his attacking flight. but they will suffer heavier losses than the defending fighters because of friendly AA, and he would only have a limited supply of them and doing so would weaken his ability to cover his fleet. YES you can use this on your attack flight if you know the target you are going to attack has fighter cover. But this its very risky. Only to be used when it is vital to damage a certain target.
Also adds balancing factors.

 

They would also as presently shoot down only 1 enemy bomber per fighter. So the attacking CV would suffer losses and attack power on the target while not completely denying the ability to strike them. Again, tradeoffs. Tactical decisions. FUN
Higher tiers generally giving more squads, but Nation dictating how many planes are in a squad and thus how many are avaible to cover the fleet and how well.
Some having less fighters per squad having more coverage, but obviously only reducing attacking flights. While others having bigger squads able to completely neutralize a strike but only in a few places.

Why: - Giving CVs more to do thats not just damage farming, but also giving CV vs CV interaction and actually helping his team.
          - PvP game having PvP interaction... shocking stuff.
          - The CV doesnt exist in his own little damage farming bubble. Him having things to do while his squads are busy being rearmed and repaired.

And last but not least:
7) Remove rocket planes from the game:

They arent fun, they are completely ahistorical. As far as im aware, only the US really used them in anti-ship operations. But they are really unnecessary and not fun to use or play against. Please, pretty please remove them.
You could make Dive bombers a bit more accurate and bombs fall slightly faster to make it a bit easier. But Dive bombers should be perfectly adequate to deal with DDs if CV decides it wants to waste its time chasing a DD.

CVs werent meant for this anyway. They want to go after big targets, other CVs, BBs and CAs.

8) Manual loadouts:

Allowing us to select the loadout for a given squad we are about to send out. Selecting to use AP or HE bombs depending on the target and our goal. Did we see him use dmg con? Take HE bombs against a BB or Cruiser to get that DoT. Armoured target like an armoured CV, BB or CA? AP bombs to do a lot of damage quickly. Want to disable flight deck operations on an enemy CV? HE bombs.
MAYBE, allow it on a per squad basis so you can take a mixed squad if you want to do a bit of both. 2 squads of AP and 2 squads HE.

This is it pretty much. Maybe I could come up with some more stuff but this is the main, most important stuff.

[Spitfirex250]

10 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Probably so as you seem to enjoy the rework. Good for you!

 

 

Correct, at one point I would have said WoWs is one of the most fun games I have played. Before I even welcomed the occational CV match that happened.

 

Noone relevant (read: WG managers) cares and the rest of us are irrelevant. We tried also.

I know... 0.01% any WeeGee manager would even care to read it really or take it seriously.
Still interesting to hear peoples thoughts