General CV related discussions.

[Andrewbassg]

4 minutes ago, Yosha_nai said:

sorry I misworded. I wanted to say high influence. I thought of low influence while typing and didn't double check 

I know :) I was editing while you were typing :)

[Panocek]

10 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

As my esteemed co-forumite @Yosha_nai has answered before - it means there is nuance to playing a DD that goes far beyond mashing the W key, aiming at the red team and expecting good things to happen. 

And yet, barging in onto nearest cap, shooty shooty and move onto next cap and targets of opportunity is enough to get so called "unicum" stats in those

[One_Eye_Potato]

Just played Operation Killer Whale, didn't need to do anything really and easily gained 5 stars and have done so.  An Ark Royal was present which single handedly wiped out every single enemy ship (including the fifth wave) more or less, with minimal effort from the rest of team.  This would have been nigh on impossible prior to the Carrier Rework and now it seems easy.  I dont think I need I say anything more about Carriers, it's horrible the effect they're having on the game.  The make every other ship superfluous and those concealment mechanics that once made the game so great are now redundant.

[BLUB__BLUB]

7 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

It is the point though, you know you have ammunition incoming. From further away and with longer time. To offset longer time fame doesn't show where exactly.

I call BS, a warning for ammo fired at > 4,5 km doesn't mean you have 3.5 secs. 

That is about how long it takes if a BB shoots from other side of the map. Not 5km...

You have to be aware too, and if you are not, well... BLAP. 

 

7 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

No it isn't. But sure, let's ignore any skill into dodging cause that would be unfair for the average wows player

Skill has nothing to do with it, or does it? I mean, "avoid the red dot". 

But now you want to bring in this devious method called "skill".

 

7 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

And rockets were close to undodgable before this ( if CV player knew what he was doing ) and now players can react and have a good chance to dodge ( if they know what they are doing ).

Well, seems you already forgot about "skill" now. 

I've seen plenty players with some "skill" avoid 90% (or even all) of those rockets. 

Of course, when the CV-player had some "skill" as well it would be much harder. 

 

7 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

So how come a)was okay and b) isn't?

How about, they have "balanced" a none-skill-CV-dakka with a non-skill-DD-measure (see below...). 

Why is it so hard to admit plenty of DD drivers are blithering Reeee-calling numbskulls, too? 

 

7 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Or maybe all this just shows that rockets just aren't balancable ?

Yes, we agree on that one. But now they are useless unless the DD driver is absolutely numbnuts insane (or too busy to react...).

Didn't use them much anyway, and 99% will not use them now. I'd gladly trade them for ASW bombs, or whatever. 

 

7 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

And you will die if CV knows his tradecraft.

I doubt that. I'd not know why a CV would go hunt DDs when there are fat piñatas to be harvested. 

Say 3 DDs killed, what will it get you? Can you still do it? Or will it mean you end up bottom score and the team still lost?

Because yes if the DD is a nuisance you can try to kill him, but well, IF he is a nuisance that also means you have dumb teammates. 

When there is no CV in the game, they also have to kill DDS themselves, and by now they are more able to kill DDs than the CV.

IMO a team that leaves the DDs completely to the CV is a team that deserves the loss. Just delay the STOMP and farm whatever you can.

 

7 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

X for doubt. People do far more stupid things in this game.

Well, granted they do, but this is like a "free incoming fire alert" + the other one. And worse. 

Mind, how many people would TAKE such a captain skill, if it was like this:

 

NEW 4PT commander skill: "SHAMAN KING"

"lights up a red area predicting where any enemy shells/torps/bombs will hit about 3.5 secs before they do". 

[gabberworld]

8 hours ago, Gvozdika said:

Some DDs have good reasons to go nowhere near the caps early on - French ones being a good example.

 

yeah that's true, i been played almost all Tech tree dds,

some are not good for that.

but play too safe is same like just give away the win,

only what you could hope is that enemy start make stupid moves and then die one by one.

another scenario is  if you want that they take cap and then you take that move.

 

anyway, its me or CV is kind off weak now against dds?

[WWDragon]

5 hours ago, One_Eye_Potato said:

Just played Operation Killer Whale, didn't need to do anything really and easily gained 5 stars and have done so.  An Ark Royal was present which single handedly wiped out every single enemy ship (including the fifth wave) more or less, with minimal effort from the rest of team.  This would have been nigh on impossible prior to the Carrier Rework and now it seems easy.  I dont think I need I say anything more about Carriers, it's horrible the effect they're having on the game.  The make every other ship superfluous and those concealment mechanics that once made the game so great are now redundant.

Killer Whale is a exception and Ark Royal can do what she does because those are predictable lower tier ships and not much in mass on what is a small map with cover (unless its the west exit).

 

It wont work the same on other Operations like Newport because unpredicable spawns, number of ships and lack of cover, also Ark Royal have really good torps on a 3 spread that pays for meh rockets (even before rework) and barely useable level bombers with planes that are lower tier and slow, carriers do well in Killer Whale but thats pretty much the only Operation they do very well because of the operation flow, in Newport they will do significantly worst were in Raptor the Operation often fails due to the Raptor being killed by the two DDs were a CV cannot really handle two of then in such sort amount of time and require a advance escorting force instead of "lets Raptor tank the damage".

 

Its dishonest to use Killer Whale as the bar to judge ship performance, DDs do poorly in Operations due to small map sizes  as well bot having "torpedo sense" and casually dodge then, CV do very well in Killer Whale but that is due to the map itself as well enemy spawns.

 

Of course you are free to go into the bay and fight the bots, chances are you get torped and sunk and I seen pretty bad CV players on Killer Whale, also personally I think Ryujo is better that Ark Royal for Killer Whale because Ark Royal only really have the TBs, Ryujo have better torps even if one less and AP dive bombers with faster planes, we dont have any IJN T6 premium CV  (such as Zuiho or Shoho) .since if we did, it would likely be more used in Operations that Ark Royal.

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, gabberworld said:

yeah that's true, i been played almost all Tech tree dds,

some are not good for that.

but play too safe is same like just give away the win,

only what you could hope is that enemy start make stupid moves and then die one by one.

another scenario is  if you want that they take cap and then you take that move.

With all ships, no guts no glory. The "skill" is to find the balance. 

But that balance can be different every game The cap might be empty (whole enemy team lemmings to other side),

or there might be 3 enemy DDs in it (they all lemming to your side) or one DD but it runs and teammates do not help him,

or one DD is in that cap that outspots you and (this is a miracle...) his teammates actually shoot you. 

 

5 hours ago, gabberworld said:

anyway, its me or CV is kind off weak now against dds?

Well, if they turn off their AA the CV will only see them when too late to shoot... which has been like that for a while. 

Then we have got some DDs that have plenty AA, only the good CV players will be able to get those. 

And now we have rocket nerf, which means also only the good CV players can still hit them (or if the DD is stupid).

So... Yes you may have a point there. 

 

But it also might be that you have seen <40%WR CV players, of which there are a lot.

The average is always 50% (as both sides get a CV). One wins, other one loses.

So, if we have ONE unicum CV player (80%), that means there are 3 that average 40%. 

And they'll not be able to hit DDs...

 

Or maybe some CV-players do not want to hunt DDs. Why would they?

Other ships (stealthier <gun>DDs, radar cruisers) have much better ways of dealing with DDs.

And the CV is usually the last one who is gonna be torped by a DD, unless that DD goes straight after him.

Teammates never help when a DD goes directly for the CV, so why help teammates...

...even when the CV spots the DD, most of them usually do not shoot. What's the use? 

CV can outrun or avoid a DD that goes for him, or try to kill him anyway. 

I'd say hunting DD is not really the special task for the CV anymore, WeeGee has made that pretty clear. 

 

 

[Camperdown]

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

With all ships, no guts no glory. The "skill" is to find the balance. 

But that balance can be different every game The cap might be empty (whole enemy team lemmings to other side),

or there might be 3 enemy DDs in it (they all lemming to your side) or one DD but it runs and teammates do not help him,

or one DD is in that cap that outspots you and (this is a miracle...) his teammates actually shoot you. 

 

Well, if they turn off their AA the CV will only see them when too late to shoot... which has been like that for a while. 

Then we have got some DDs that have plenty AA, only the good CV players will be able to get those. 

And now we have rocket nerf, which means also only the good CV players can still hit them (or if the DD is stupid).

So... Yes you may have a point there. 

 

But it also might be that you have seen <40%WR CV players, of which there are a lot.

The average is always 50% (as both sides get a CV). One wins, other one loses.

So, if we have ONE unicum CV player (80%), that means there are 3 that average 40%. 

And they'll not be able to hit DDs...

 

Or maybe some CV-players do not want to hunt DDs. Why would they?

Other ships (stealthier <gun>DDs, radar cruisers) have much better ways of dealing with DDs.

And the CV is usually the last one who is gonna be torped by a DD, unless that DD goes straight after him.

Teammates never help when a DD goes directly for the CV, so why help teammates...

...even when the CV spots the DD, most of them usually do not shoot. What's the use? 

CV can outrun or avoid a DD that goes for him, or try to kill him anyway. 

I'd say hunting DD is not really the special task for the CV anymore, WeeGee has made that pretty clear. 

 

 

I may agree that hunting DDs has become less central in CVs tasks.

However, in some cases the CV still must chip in at anti-DD work imo, that is when a DD is on the lose and can't be countered by green DDs or cruisers soon enough. Then it is essential the CV helps in spotting etc.

 

[One_Eye_Potato]

11 hours ago, WWDragon said:

Killer Whale is a exception and Ark Royal can do what she does because those are predictable lower tier ships and not much in mass on what is a small map with cover (unless its the west exit).

 

It wont work the same on other Operations like Newport because unpredicable spawns, number of ships and lack of cover, also Ark Royal have really good torps on a 3 spread that pays for meh rockets (even before rework) and barely useable level bombers with planes that are lower tier and slow, carriers do well in Killer Whale but thats pretty much the only Operation they do very well because of the operation flow, in Newport they will do significantly worst were in Raptor the Operation often fails due to the Raptor being killed by the two DDs were a CV cannot really handle two of then in such sort amount of time and require a advance escorting force instead of "lets Raptor tank the damage".

 

Its dishonest to use Killer Whale as the bar to judge ship performance, DDs do poorly in Operations due to small map sizes  as well bot having "torpedo sense" and casually dodge then, CV do very well in Killer Whale but that is due to the map itself as well enemy spawns.

 

Of course you are free to go into the bay and fight the bots, chances are you get torped and sunk and I seen pretty bad CV players on Killer Whale, also personally I think Ryujo is better that Ark Royal for Killer Whale because Ark Royal only really have the TBs, Ryujo have better torps even if one less and AP dive bombers with faster planes, we dont have any IJN T6 premium CV  (such as Zuiho or Shoho) .since if we did, it would likely be more used in Operations that Ark Royal.

This arguement still doesn'tnegate the fact you couldn't do this before the CV rework.  An arguement based around the specifics of either ships or scenario wont change this, neither will it change my mind that they don't belong in the game.  In the current meta , carriers destroy fundamental mechanics of the game such as concealment, use of terrain and they also undermine the roles of other ships within the game.  I'm not going to go into specifics because it would take to long, as the list is as long as my arm.  But suffice to say, carriers are broken.

[NoirLotus]

I played the operations before the CV rework and it was quite easy to have a good score at that time. The only limiting factor was the fact that lost planes were not regenerated so in the last quarter of the game, you tended to be more conservative because you were running out of some planes, especially as you had to fight other Cvs, something that rarely happens now (save for Raptor).

[Andrewbassg]

12 hours ago, WWDragon said:

Killer Whale is a exception and Ark Royal can do what she does because those are predictable lower tier ships and not much in mass on what is a small map with cover (unless its the west exit).

 

It wont work the same on other Operations like Newport because unpredicable spawns, number of ships and lack of cover, also Ark Royal have really good torps on a 3 spread that pays for meh rockets (even before rework) and barely useable level bombers with planes that are lower tier and slow, carriers do well in Killer Whale but thats pretty much the only Operation they do very well because of the operation flow, in Newport they will do significantly worst were in Raptor the Operation often fails due to the Raptor being killed by the two DDs were a CV cannot really handle two of then in such sort amount of time and require a advance escorting force instead of "lets Raptor tank the damage".

 

Its dishonest to use Killer Whale as the bar to judge ship performance, DDs do poorly in Operations due to small map sizes  as well bot having "torpedo sense" and casually dodge then, CV do very well in Killer Whale but that is due to the map itself as well enemy spawns.

 

Of course you are free to go into the bay and fight the bots, chances are you get torped and sunk and I seen pretty bad CV players on Killer Whale, also personally I think Ryujo is better that Ark Royal for Killer Whale because Ark Royal only really have the TBs, Ryujo have better torps even if one less and AP dive bombers with faster planes, we dont have any IJN T6 premium CV  (such as Zuiho or Shoho) .since if we did, it would likely be more used in Operations that Ark Royal.

Hmm....NA player Volron (and some others) would like to have a word with you about your assumptions regarding Cv's in other ops ......

Also...

 

 

Edit : I mean ...

 

On 7/29/2021 at 8:43 PM, Volron said:

4s

 

3s

 

5s

 That's Newport

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, One_Eye_Potato said:

This arguement ....

 To further dispel some  misconceptions about Cv's in ops here's a discussion which  I had with him

 

On 2/8/2021 at 3:45 AM, Bandi73 said:

No not really. Other than KW where indeed Cv's can help greatly and to some extent carry, in all other ops my findings are  exactly the opposite.

 

On 2/8/2021 at 8:21 AM, Volron said:

 

I beg to differ...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

On 2/8/2021 at 11:18 AM, Bandi73 said:

Good games, congrats! We didn't meet yet, I suppose :). I see ops as a team game and effort and many times Cv players simply don't understand that and don't act on it. Trying to attack cruisers with torps, not providing sometimes crucial spotting, playing for racking up damage vs attacking important targets, this is how the majority of Cv players  (who'd I met) play and frankly, it is wrong. I don't say that there are no exceptions, but that's the solid majority. Many times we lost because Cv players made some ships turn, going in wrong direction, ergo delaying the fulfilment of secondary objectives. Every ship in the game could be played well, because ultimately depends on how the player utilise its potential.Nonetheless i stick with what I said earlier which was that KW is the operation in which Cv's could do most for the team.

 

On 2/8/2021 at 6:46 PM, Volron said:

@Bandi73  I know exactly where you are coming from, which is why the primary class I run in Op's is CV.  But to say a Carrier is incapable of carrying in any of the Op's is dead wrong, that is what I was pointing out.  If anything, KW is the only Op where a Carrier cannot truly carry due to the Retreat Zone.  Seen that too many times.  Something to note: A vast majority of the Tactical Expertise Achievement runs I've had (only 263 though) involved a Carrier; either someone who knew what they were doing in one, or myself running one.

 

It's as you say, the difference between a good Carrier and a "okay-ish" one (or worse) is like Night and Day.  Now, I'm not going to say I'm perfect when I do run one.  Every now and again I do derp...   Usually because I switch to a different Carrier and for some reason or another, I treat her like a Carrier I usually use.  Lowen for example: her torpedoes are so bloody slow.  I swear, I could have someone row out to one and push it to make it go faster...

 

On 2/8/2021 at 11:31 PM, Bandi73 said:

:)

My definition of carrying is having a decisive contribution, not necessarily being the last ship alive. And yeah, metoo sadly. But earning the Tactical expertise has little to do with the carrier per se. It is about the team. 

Actually it is. And that's why ops is the perfect place to recognise them. Just attacking mindlessly vs attacking knowing what, where and how it is exactly that night and day difference. Granted, knowing the operation is a big plus, but that's exactly why operations are very good, teaching people how to utilise their ships strengths and 'hide' their weaknesses. In ops ships become tools.

Well, we are all humans and make mistakes. For example in Leander I always go out and ambush the waves (1,2) from sides, then falling back for the third, still ambushing them. Sometimes I potato and manage to got killed in the process :). But I do that only in that ship.

 

 And unrelated ( i.e Aegis) but still.....

 

On 5/20/2021 at 1:03 AM, Volron said:

Here is my standard regardless of CV I use:

Auto-pilot a course due E, then due N to D/C line that takes me more or less right through the center of convoy.  Set to 1/2 speed and increase as Op progresses.  The primary reason I take this route is simple, if stuff hits the fan, and it will as Mistress RNG is a fickle gal (though usually cause of potato team), I'll be in a position to draw fire for the transports at the end.  It also allows me to efficiently attack Fuso, as well as Kongo and Ishi (if it won't risk the Op).  My 1st wave of aircraft, I always go after the Northern Fleet and stay well away from Vanguard.  This does 2 things: 1) Find out what makes up that Northern Fleet; 2) Start working them down so team takes that much less of crossfire when pushing E.  Assist with Vanguard if team is struggling but otherwise focus on Northern Fleet.  Once they are dealt with, work the convoy escorts until Fuso spawns, then start on her before switching to Kongo/Ishi.  If a few are primed for Fuso, I'll work Kongo/Ishi first.  If team is struggling by the time Fuso appears; I'll work Fuso, then "adds", and ignore Kongo/Ishi.  0s wins bring more to plate than 5s losses after all.  This is the basic plan I stick to for Aegis.  The only time I'll deviate is I'm divi'd up with enough folks and/or if team is performing exceptionally well.

 

There really isn't a "best" CV to use here, but the safest gal would be Ranger.  She has the versatility to deal with whatever Aegis throws at you reliably, even if she's a bit squishy.  Second option is Furious.  While her LB's are more RNG dependent than Ranger's DB's, they can still do some work (and if Mistress graces you, a LOT of work).  She is also tankier than Ranger should the need arise.  You can actually maneuver around a little without risk of being citadel'd by a seagull fart.

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, Camperdown said:

I may agree that hunting DDs has become less central in CVs tasks.

It is pretty clear WeeGee doesn't want CVs to hunt DD. You can, of course, if you want to or have to. 

You can also hunt DD with a BB. Doesn't mean it is your designated role. 

And yes it was too easy before, most CVs just went for DDs because they had low AA and were easy to kill. 

 

5 hours ago, Camperdown said:

However, in some cases the CV still must chip in at anti-DD work imo, that is when a DD is on the lose and can't be countered by green DDs or cruisers soon enough. Then it is essential the CV helps in spotting etc.

I agree to that, because what wins games is make the enemy blind and limit their movement. 

But a "loose DD" is also a sure sign you have an incompetent team. DDs 'on the loose' have no support.

I usually have the tendency to think "yeah you guys didn't do your jobs and now you want me to save your butt". 

 

However, if the team doesn't shoot at a DD when spotted, and prefers to farm BBs or whatever,

well that means you have a stupid team and then I'd just concentrate on farming as much as possible,

while trying to delay the inevitable loss. 

 

Teams should support their DDs (and often they do not), for example by covering them and shooting radar cruisers,

and prioritize killing enemy DDs but it seems to me when a CV is in the game they just go "oh CV will do it I can just go farm". 

The effect is that the CV ends up with meager damage, bleeds credits, can't kill the DD anyway, and the team loses.

 

[SV_Kompresor]

23 hours ago, Panocek said:

And yet, barging in onto nearest cap, shooty shooty and move onto next cap and targets of opportunity is enough to get so called "unicum" stats in those

So....just like all other classes then?

[Vbeest]

23 hours ago, One_Eye_Potato said:

Just played Operation Killer Whale, didn't need to do anything really and easily gained 5 stars and have done so.  An Ark Royal was present which single handedly wiped out every single enemy ship (including the fifth wave) more or less, with minimal effort from the rest of team.  This would have been nigh on impossible prior to the Carrier Rework and now it seems easy.  I dont think I need I say anything more about Carriers, it's horrible the effect they're having on the game.  The make every other ship superfluous and those concealment mechanics that once made the game so great are now redundant.

 

Very strong statement based on an Operation where you go against t3 ships and the forts have actually the only meaningful AA.

[One_Eye_Potato]

2 hours ago, Vbeest said:

Very strong statement based on an Operation where you go against t3 ships and the forts have actually the only meaningful AA.

Yes, it is; but it's also very factual.  Would you like me to reword it somehow, perhaps in a gentler manner?  I could do, but I'm afraid he message conveyed would be exactly the same.

 

As a matter of fact, I could use your arguement as a reson to reduce the effectiveness of Carriers, especially at low tier.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

On 8/10/2021 at 9:12 PM, gabberworld said:

anyway, its me or CV is kind off weak now against dds?

It's you... only you... nothing else but you...

[Icecaptain10]

Boy oh boy, I sure loved being dumpstered by a ranger when I tried to play my Omaha just now. ~1k exp from getting to Tier 6 and i get to shoot 3 times before dying.  That was a great battle. Really got the blood pumping to want to spend money on this game.  What an enjoyable experience for a new player to have.  Game was over for me in 3 minutes despite being in the center of about 3 top tier ships that supposedly have AA..  Cv's are totally balanced and fun to play against.  This is akin to kicking a puppy.

[BLUB__BLUB]

45 minutes ago, Icecaptain10 said:

Boy oh boy, I sure loved being dumpstered by a ranger when I tried to play my Omaha just now. ~1k exp from getting to Tier 6 and i get to shoot 3 times before dying.  That was a great battle. Really got the blood pumping to want to spend money on this game.  What an enjoyable experience for a new player to have.  Game was over for me in 3 minutes despite being in the center of about 3 top tier ships that supposedly have AA..  Cv's are totally balanced and fun to play against.  This is akin to kicking a puppy.

Omaha is very very very squishy... fun to play when you manage to last over half the game, after that...

CVs not being so much a problem with Omaha, but if they spot you, all the BBs want to blap you.

The only thing that is worse is the Emerald.

[Icecaptain10]

7 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Omaha is very very very squishy... fun to play when you manage to last over half the game, after that...

CVs not being so much a problem with Omaha, but if they spot you, all the BBs want to blap you.

The only thing that is worse is the Emerald.

But see it wasn't the BBs blapping me that was the issue.  The cv just swooped right in with his torps, while I'm in the middle of 3 other top tier 7 ships. 4 torps later, I'm dead.

[Sunleader]

37 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Omaha is very very very squishy... fun to play when you manage to last over half the game, after that...

CVs not being so much a problem with Omaha, but if they spot you, all the BBs want to blap you.

The only thing that is worse is the Emerald.

 

Mate come on.

Seriously. If your in a CV and your not a Problem for a Cruiser. Then you are doing something wrong.

For Cruisers on T8 and lower. A CV is a Nightmare. Yes they can Hurt CVs due to the Strong AA. But the vast Majority cannot Heal. And many of the Weapons of a CV can easily take a Quarter of their HP in a Single Attack if they cant evade it.

And they very often cannot Evade it because Evading it would mean showing Broadside to Enemy BB in an exposed position while Spotted.

 

I actually often do this on Purpose at the Start of the Match. I drop an Enemy Cruiser with Torps. And I will generally Crossdrop him. Which means not only wont he be able to evade entirely. But he will also be Forced to Show Broadside to my Team. This for an Enemy Cruiser is an absolute Horror. Because to an Enemy Cruiser which at T8 has like 40-45k HP and I will easily do 10k and more with the Torps. Worse. It will be 20k unless he Shows Broadside to my Team and thereby Risks being Instant Blapped.

 

 

This is Generally very Effective. Because not only will such a Cruiser be Damaged Heavily and thus rarely do anything useful anymore this Battle as he has no Choice to Fall back so he doesnt get Focused down extremely Quickly.

But he also will Fail to take a Forward Position where he is actually useful to his Team.

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

8 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Mate come on.

Seriously. If your in a CV and your not a Problem for a Cruiser. Then you are doing something wrong.

For Cruisers on T8 and lower. A CV is a Nightmare. Yes they can Hurt CVs due to the Strong AA. But the vast Majority cannot Heal. And many of the Weapons of a CV can easily take a Quarter of their HP in a Single Attack if they cant evade it.

And they very often cannot Evade it because Evading it would mean showing Broadside to Enemy BB in an exposed position while Spotted.

 

I actually often do this on Purpose at the Start of the Match. I drop an Enemy Cruiser with Torps. And I will generally Crossdrop him. Which means not only wont he be able to evade entirely. But he will also be Forced to Show Broadside to my Team. This for an Enemy Cruiser is an absolute Horror. Because to an Enemy Cruiser which at T8 has like 40-45k HP and I will easily do 10k and more with the Torps. Worse. It will be 20k unless he Shows Broadside to my Team and thereby Risks being Instant Blapped.

 

 

This is Generally very Effective. Because not only will such a Cruiser be Damaged Heavily and thus rarely do anything useful anymore this Battle as he has no Choice to Fall back so he doesnt get Focused down extremely Quickly.

But he also will Fail to take a Forward Position where he is actually useful to his Team.

 

Cruisers without heal are often my number one target in Immelmann ( after the poor Stalingrad).

Those perma fires you set may as well be citadels, the poor cruiser can equally do nothing about them. Same is true on low tiers. 
 

[Sunleader]

58 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Cruisers without heal are often my number one target in Immelmann ( after the poor Stalingrad).

Those perma fires you set may as well be citadels, the poor cruiser can equally do nothing about them. Same is true on low tiers. 
 

 

Aye. On T8 and below where Cruisers dont have a Heal. Any Damage is Devastating. And T8 CVs like Shokaku, Lexington, Saipan, Enterprise. Can Deal over 10k in a Single Drop very very easily unless the Cruiser takes full Evasive Maneuvers which will make him an Easy Target for BBs.

And it doesnt matter at all if these 12k are from Torps, HE Bombs or Tiny Tims. Because he cant Repair it. So its Permanent.

Perma Fire ? Well say Goodbye to another few thousand HP.

 

When Playing Kaga. I will often Croosdrop Cruisers with Torps at the Start. Usually Scoring somewhere between 10k and 20k Damage to the First Enemy Cruiser I find.

When you got 42k HP like a Baltimore then this Match is effectively Done for you.

If he still tries to go forward for a Cap to Radar or something. I will follow up with some HE Bombers easily taking another 10k of him.

At this Point he will usually Die. Heck doing that to a Des Moines more often than not will be the End for it because he will take at least some Damage from my Team in these 2 times where he is Spotted.

 

If not. His Role in the Match however is over Regardless because at this Point he took so much damage that he is an easily Kill for anyone else on my Team and cant really afford to Fight anymore.

 

A Cruiser that tries to go forward into a Good Position is Generally extremely Vulnearble to a CV.

The only Exception to that is usually Minotaur and Neptune. Because they have Great Concealment, Great AA and (and this is the Importand part which makes the difference) an Extreme Heal which just Prints back like two thirds of their Ship. Thus even if they lost like 80% of their HP in these 2 Runs they will be back to 80% a few seconds later. Thanks to which they can actually force such a move through.

But even for them its dangerous. Cause even they can still get blapped by a BB.

 

 

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

it's always fun :3

 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

37 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

it's always fun

 

Thus your entire narrative boils down to "CVs are fine because the majority of CV players are idiots and thus have no impact on me".

Which ofc is purely subjective and therefore irrelevant.