General CV related discussions.

[Miscommunication_dept]

2 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well, the mistake might have been that you didn't go for the CV in the end... I usually do. 

Half the times I get him, too. But if he is good and yours is not, there is no team left. 

Then you will not win by capping. 

 

Mate, they did the whole Reeeeeework because CVs weren't popular. 

And yes that is how they balance, too. Not popular --> gets buffed. 

Too popular or annoying --> gets removed from the shop. Or banned from CB. 

 

 

Going for an Immelmann in a destroyer with only a few K health will likely not go well.

 

Immelmann bombs are now one of the most effective anti DD weapons a CV has since the rocket nerf.

 

I don't use any secondary skills but if a destroyer  is charging me with say 5k health I'll just drop a fighter to spot and let my secondaries hurt them.

 

It's really painful when a CV focuses you as a DD, there is nothing you can do.

 

I've found even in an FDR I can ruin a destroyers day but just hovering over him if I have teammates who might shoot.

 

 

[BanzaiPiluso]

14 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well, the mistake might have been that you didn't go for the CV in the end... I usually do. 

Half the times I get him, too. But if he is good and yours is not, there is no team left. 

Probably and probably the game was lost anyways. But a CV at the end of the game negates everything.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

Going for an Immelmann in a destroyer with only a few K health will likely not go well.

Thought you still had 75%. Also, it doesn't mean you have to kill him. 

Usually if you spot him, well your teammates hate him enough already. 

 

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

Immelmann bombs are now one of the most effective anti DD weapons a CV has since the rocket nerf.

Well even with the rockets the CV usually didn't get me, granted I do not play that much DD, and the highhest I have is a Silliwangi.

Even so, T10 CVs... meh... maybe it is because I do play CV myself, I know where they will go/look and what they can and cannot do. 

3 bouncing bombs most effective CV weapon. LOL. Who would have thought. 

 

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

I don't use any secondary skills but if a destroyer  is charging me with say 5k health I'll just drop a fighter to spot and let my secondaries hurt them.

Will usually not be enough, unless DD is stupid he will then kill you or his teammates will do it for him.

 

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

It's really painful when a CV focuses you as a DD, there is nothing you can do.

that's kinda BS, dodging was always an option and now even more. 

In Silliwangi I did get killed by a T10CV (and yes it was one of the unicums here in the forum). 

The rest, well, usually I have a hand in killing the CV... and I am not that good a DD player (in fact, I suck). 

 

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

I've found even in an FDR I can ruin a destroyers day but just hovering over him if I have teammates who might shoot.

Yeah spotting is the most anti-DD weapon that CVs have. 

In FDR though, what would you rather do - harvest a Musashi for 100K or wait if your teammates will kill  that DD.

Sometimes they do not even shoot at the DD, so...  

[Pikkozoikum]

3 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Mate, they did the whole Reeeeeework because CVs weren't popular. 

And yes that is how they balance, too. Not popular --> gets buffed. 

Too popular or annoying --> gets removed from the shop. Or banned from CB. 

You took a wrong conclusion.

 

First, the Rework had multiple reasons, not only the popularity.

 

Second, if they won't rework the CV because of popularity, then that has nothing to do with balancing. The balancing is something different.

When I rework visualy and acoustics, then something gets better grahpics and sounds, then it also might become popular, what does that has to do with balacning? Nothing

 

Third: As I said multiple times, I talk only about this "they balance for popularity", further more, that some people believe, they actualy said that (on sumit), what was a wrong interpretation, imo

 

And no, they don't buff unpopular ships and nerf popular ships. Why is Yamato and Shimakaze not hard nerfed? Its one of the most popular ships.

I like Kii, but I would say, that Kii is actualy below average, but also it's unpopular. It has 740k total battles. Ohter popular premiums have 1 Mil or even over 2 Mil battles. Below Kii are mostly new premiums, or special event premiums, but well, even those don't get buffed.

 

It might happen, that a very popular ships get nerfed. But the reason for the nerf is not the popularity. I think, that is a wrong conclusion. Very popular ships are often also very strong. So if you nerf a very strong ship, you mostly nerf also a very popular ship. There is just often (not always) a correlation.

 

Also removing a ship from a ship is not balancing the ship. The ship is still the same? WG said once to some premiums, they removed them, because they are too popular, but then this wouldn't be about balancing, it would be about the popularity itself.

Though I rather thing, they remove them, because they are too strong, which also leads to high popularity.

 

So if you take the WG statement for truth, it's:

Removed by high popularity -> granting high diversity (Has nothing to do with balancing)

 

If you don't trust that statement, its probably this:

They removed that ship, because it's too strong (which also results in high popularity) and a premium (they don't want touch premiums because of complaints about paying for ships)

 

Both has nothing to do with "balancing for popularity"

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

There is just often (not always) a correlation.

Basically this is it though. Like, if every BB on the team is a Thunderer, except one... 

Then is it just too strong or too popular? I'd not say it gets better looking or something. 

So probably you mean by "popular" = fun to play. Not necessarily strong. 
 

Well... most people think it is fun when a ship is totally OP and unbalanced.

That is why they "sold" lots of Smollies (et cetera) and now you never see them. 

Same as Enterprise, Belfast, Thunderer... yeah too strong, therefore nerfed and "made less fun". 

 

I'd still say they balance by popularity. They know that if they make a ship OP it is gonna sell well. 

And they can always nerf it after a while, or recall it from shop. 

 

[159Hunter]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Both has nothing to do with "balancing for popularity"

That’s what we would like to achieve: 

[...]

Increase aircraft carriers’ popularity and enhance AA defense ships.

 

Source: WOWs Facebook Dev Blog

 

[ca12nag3]

10 hours ago, BanzaiPiluso said:

Yesterday I was in a game with one Max Immelmann per side. What a joke. At the end of the game I was forced to cap on my Yugumo (75% HPs left). 

Our CV was killed minutes earlier so I was blind, chased by the CV. He got me in one attack on the 3rd pass. Nothing I could do. I do not usually use smoke so you can blame me for that but man, how unfair is to be at the end of a battle against a CV, there is nothing you can do. I was very successful keeping a BB away scoring good torp hits but a CV you can't go after it nor you can defend against its attacks.

 

One bitter reminder of why CVs are so hated.

And yes, I twisted my butt, dodged, changed speed, changed direction, lit candles, blow on the screen, etc.

 

 

You paint the picture as if you were full health 1v1 vs a CV in your Yugumo. He got you in 3 passes. meaning he came from your side. You are talking Immelmann. Only his Bouncers can actually get you, and only 1 if you nose in on him. You didn't you probably took 2/3 bombs from the side while laying still in the cap. 

 

And if it was a lucky hit...it was a lucky hit, that happens.

[ca12nag3]

8 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Thought you still had 75%. Also, it doesn't mean you have to kill him. 

Usually if you spot him, well your teammates hate him enough already. 

 

Well even with the rockets the CV usually didn't get me, granted I do not play that much DD, and the highhest I have is a Silliwangi.

Even so, T10 CVs... meh... maybe it is because I do play CV myself, I know where they will go/look and what they can and cannot do. 

3 bouncing bombs most effective CV weapon. LOL. Who would have thought. 

 

Will usually not be enough, unless DD is stupid he will then kill you or his teammates will do it for him.

 

that's kinda BS, dodging was always an option and now even more. 

In Silliwangi I did get killed by a T10CV (and yes it was one of the unicums here in the forum). 

The rest, well, usually I have a hand in killing the CV... and I am not that good a DD player (in fact, I suck). 

 

Yeah spotting is the most anti-DD weapon that CVs have. 

In FDR though, what would you rather do - harvest a Musashi for 100K or wait if your teammates will kill  that DD.

Sometimes they do not even shoot at the DD, so...  

 

People cry about CV's killing them because they are clueless. They got no idea what a CV can do and not do thus they die in ignorance. Afterwards come here and post rants on how they got single shot, which usually isn't the case. If you give a CV the opertunity to turn and hunt you he will and will get you, just as it would be the other way around if for example a DD gets close to a CV and yes it will kill the CV.

Spotting is only a good option if you can get your team to help kill that DD or if you are in division. CVs nowadays have a hard time making a top 5 score. You only see the best do that. While other ships have far more ease in reaching that.

[BanzaiPiluso]

30 minutes ago, ca12nag3 said:

 

You paint the picture as if you were full health 1v1 vs a CV in your Yugumo. He got you in 3 passes. meaning he came from your side. You are talking Immelmann. Only his Bouncers can actually get you, and only 1 if you nose in on him. You didn't you probably took 2/3 bombs from the side while laying still in the cap. 

 

And if it was a lucky hit...it was a lucky hit, that happens.

Hey, I didn't know Sherlock was in the forums...Obviously you love CVs.

 

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, ca12nag3 said:

They got no idea what a CV can do

 

Neither do you apparently.

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Neither do you apparently.

I know you can do it. All the time, no problem. 

I also know the average CV player needs s sh....load of luck to do it once. 

Or a DD player that is, well, shall we say "just as good". 

[Sunleader]

4 hours ago, ca12nag3 said:

 

People cry about CV's killing them because they are clueless. They got no idea what a CV can do and not do thus they die in ignorance. Afterwards come here and post rants on how they got single shot, which usually isn't the case. If you give a CV the opertunity to turn and hunt you he will and will get you, just as it would be the other way around if for example a DD gets close to a CV and yes it will kill the CV.

Spotting is only a good option if you can get your team to help kill that DD or if you are in division. CVs nowadays have a hard time making a top 5 score. You only see the best do that. While other ships have far more ease in reaching that.

 

Thats the same as the People Crying about Strong AA or Nerfs on CVs tough.

They got no idea what a CV can do and not do. Thus they let their Squadrons die in ignorance. And afterwards come here and post rants on how their Squadron got Instant Deleted by AA or how its Impossible to hit that Halland etc.

 

Thing is. The Reason why Potato CVs are more rarely on Top Score than other Ships Played by Potatoes. Is because there is 10 times as many of them as there is CVs.

Meaning there is a 10 Times higher Chance to be a non Potato among them.

Needless to say its also related to the Fact that CVs gain less Base Exp for most Actions than other Ships. Thus requiring a higher Performance to reach the same Base Exp Score.

This is a leftover of when WG still Refused to Balance CVs Performance. And thus to stop the CV constantly being at the Top of the Scoreboard. Simply Reduced their Exp Income instead of Nerfing their Performance.

So that despite getting large amount of Spotting Damage, Direct Damage and Kills. They would still not constantly be at the Top of Scoreboard.

Now that they have actually started Buffing AA Performance and Nerfing CV Performance. This of course comes back to Bite the CVs. Because now their Performance gets closer to that of other Ships. And as they got less Exp for it. They struggle to Rank high in the Scoreboard.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I know you can do it. All the time, no problem. 

I also know the average CV player needs s sh....load of luck to do it once. 

Or a DD player that is, well, shall we say "just as good". 

 

Its not about luck.

Its about Learning to Play.

 

Luck is something that Affects even the Best Players.

RNGesus can **** anyone over.

You can be the Best Unicum CV in the Game. And Yet you can have a Terrible Streak of 3 Drops where RNGesus just Says Nope. And makes you miss all Bombs or have you hit Shimas Torpslaunchers and do 0 Damage to the Ship. ^^

Thats Luck.

 

But the Problem with Potato CVs is not Luck. Its that they make the wrong Decisions or dont make Decisions at all. And due to that will most of the time just not get the Chances to actually have luck or not.

 

[159Hunter]

6 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I know you can do it. All the time, no problem. 

I also know the average CV player needs s sh....load of luck to do it once. 

Or a DD player that is, well, shall we say "just as good". 

Well, if someone comes to the forums dismissing the impact of CVs and calling everyone who complains about them clueless that's ok.

Unfortunately, if said player is clueless in all other classes then how are we to biew his comment?

[BLUB__BLUB]

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Luck is something that Affects even the Best Players.

RNGesus can **** anyone over.

I'm only partly talking about RNG here. That part is the difference when you get a T10 match in your T8 CV, or a T6 match. 

 

The rest of "luck" is not RNG. It is this:

It is when you drop torps on a BB, expecting to hit one or two, and then he somehow turns into all of them...

Or when that Stalingrad that is behind that mountain, and JUUUUSSST too close to hit with torps, decides he'll go forward.... 

Or when that Halland runs himself into an island, right when you spot him...

Or when a Musashi, a Currywurst and a Yamato decide they have enough of anothers company, and go their separate ways... 

Or when that Conq has just DCP-ed, you seen it, and you "manage" double flooding and then your teammates DO NOT KILL HIM before it runs out... (OK that is somewhat RNG). 

...even more if he gets 3 perma-fires. 

 

Those things do not depend on RNG, they depend on "luck" or sometimes teammates. 

Yesterday, for instance, I found a lone Conq when in FDR. I set fire to him, he DCPd. 

And then I had to wait 30 seconds. Managed (lucked out) to get 2 perma fires in the next drop. 

What happens, our Yammie sees him, BLAP. No score. 

Same game, I see a Halland with its AA off. I drop bombs, get 1 incapacitation (eh...).

So, I return with torps later, spot him again, drop him... sure to hit 2... Venezia goes BLAP.  Gone. 

I still managed >>130K and we won, but hey. That could have been 200+.

 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, 159Hunter said:

Well, if someone comes to the forums dismissing the impact of CVs and calling everyone who complains about them clueless that's ok.

Unfortunately, if said player is clueless in all other classes then how are we to biew his comment?

Maybe account for that most people manage ~50%? 

I would not call them all clueless. They are just not THAT good, or nifty. 

And the constant complaining is often done by people that are clueless, too. 

Mostly clueless to the fact that their "tanking" is also useful, not for them, but for the team, AKA their WR.

(which is usually the reason why they camp like hell).

[159Hunter]

16 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Maybe account for that most people manage ~50%? 

I would not call them all clueless. They are just not THAT good, or nifty. 

Yes they are clueless. All it takes is some basic knowledge to easily get over 50%. I don't know which ships overmatch my ship, I don't know speed or ranges of all ships. All I know is map reading and situational awareness, general idea of when to switch ammo and how to work my DC and heal. 

That's all you need, and unfortunatly those basic items might as well be rocket science to most people (justthe way WG likes it). So yeah, people who can't manage that are clueless.

16 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

And the constant complaining is often done by people that are clueless, too. 

Dunno, I wouldn't call @DFens_666 @ForlornSailor @El2aZeR or @Bear__Necessities clueless. Nor would I call their post complaining ones.

16 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Mostly clueless to the fact that their "tanking" is also useful, not for them, but for the team, AKA their WR.

(which is usually the reason why they camp like hell).

Tanking in a DD as you call it is not useful. Tanking in a BB is, but generally not as useful in the later stages of the game when the die has been cast.

 

What people mean is the fun factor: being attacked over and over again without much skill from your part in chasing the attacker away/negating damage is just not fun.

[BLUB__BLUB]

6 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Yes they are clueless. All it takes is some basic knowledge to easily get over 50%. I don't know which ships overmatch my ship, I don't know speed or ranges of all ships. All I know is map reading and situational awareness, general idea of when to switch ammo and how to work my DC and heal. 

That's all you need, and unfortunatly those basic items might as well be rocket science to most people (justthe way WG likes it). So yeah, people who can't manage that are clueless.

Well, so far I kinda know those things too. But I don't manage to do better than average either. 

 

6 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Dunno, I wouldn't call @DFens_666 @ForlornSailor @El2aZeR or @Bear__Necessities clueless. Nor would I call their post complaining ones.

Exactloy. They are not complaining, they know how to handle it. 

They're just pointing out what sucks. That is different than complaining.

 

6 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Tanking in a DD as you call it is not useful. Tanking in a BB is, but generally not as useful in the later stages of the game when the die has been cast.

Tanking doesn't mean you have to get hit and lose HP. 

It just means getting shot at. If it doesn't hit, even better. 

(see... I know a bit...).

 

6 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

What people mean is the fun factor: being attacked over and over again without much skill from your part in chasing the attacker away/negating damage is just not fun.

That depends I know people who go Lolololol all the time when just staying angled, 

and then seeing the red player go nuts because he can't do sh... to them 

[Pikkozoikum]

15 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Tanking doesn't mean you have to get hit and lose HP. 

It just means getting shot at. If it doesn't hit, even better. 

(see... I know a bit...). 

Though I don't like the term "tanking" in world of Warships, because it's not like in a roleplay game, where the tank sit in front of the team and actually take all shots, while a healer heals the tank. It's more hp sharing.

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Though I don't like the term "tanking" in world of Warships, because it's not like in a roleplay game, where the tank sit in front of the team and actually take all shots, while a healer heals the tank. It's more hp sharing.

If you don't get hit, but still draw fire, you are not even actually "tanking" anything, or sharing HP. 

But that is the object of it, diversion from teammates so they do not get hit. 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

16 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

If you don't get hit, but still draw fire, you are not even actually "tanking" anything, or sharing HP. 

But that is the object of it, diversion from teammates so they do not get hit. 

 

Well, dodging shells or avoiding those shells is technically also tanking. But for me tanking is more like, that you take focus fire. But in World of Warships, you don't want get focused, you mostly want that focus fire gets dispersed and splitted between targets, so the HP gets shared with the team.

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well, dodging shells or avoiding those shells is technically also tanking. But for me tanking is more like, that you take focus fire. But in World of Warships, you don't want get focused, you mostly want that focus fire gets dispersed and splitted between targets, so the HP gets shared with the team.

Easiest way to get focus fired is taking a Smolensk... 

[AkulaTSR]

To me , one of the main jobs of the CV was always to help and spot the DDs , however too many CV players are now just ignoring the DDs , and never help even when asked.

It seems now the CV will usually reverse out of reach as is the norm for obvious reasons , but will then also pick a side , and will only put his planes up on the side he is at , so if he is south of A cap , and you happen to be a C , you will never get help  

[BLUB__BLUB]

19 minutes ago, AkulaTSR said:

To me , one of the main jobs of the CV was always to help and spot the DDs , however too many CV players are now just ignoring the DDs , and never help even when asked.

It seems now the CV will usually reverse out of reach as is the norm for obvious reasons , but will then also pick a side , and will only put his planes up on the side he is at , so if he is south of A cap , and you happen to be a C , you will never get help  

Point: WeeGee has heard the complaint of DD-drivers, as such they have taken away the power of CV to kill DDs. 

They do not want CVs to go after DDs. That task must be done by the ships that do it when there is no CV: (radar)cruisers and other DDs.

Those are supposed to be the DD counter. Yeah sure CV can still spot them. Enjoy, this is what the players wanted.

It even says so in the game: the job of CV is to sink LARGE ships. 

 

There is no use spotting a DD, because most random teammates will ignore it anyway, and most CVs will have a hard time killing it.

That is also why they go backwards and stick to one side. Some DDs (which are kinda useless to theri team, as they do not cap and not spot)

will go for the CV kill from the start. And random teammates will not be bothered to do something about it. CV has to take care of itself (nobody else will).

 

Same as BBs, why would they risk supporting their cruisers, if those cruisers leave the BB to die when it gets tough?

Just sit further back, shoot from distance, risk nothing, why would yuou try dave/cover that teammate, he'll not do anything for you either.

 

Same as cruisers, why would you follow your DD and cover/defend him? He'll not do anything for you either.

When he gets spotted, he'll just smoke up (and die?). Spotting ends, and it leaves your cruiser as the main target. 

 

I play a lot better when I think that way. This is not a teamgame, really. 

Usually it is a game where the biggest opportunist takes all.

Thanks for the help, random teammate,  I'll have the XP, next game for you unfortunately...

 

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, AkulaTSR said:

To me , one of the main jobs of the CV was always to help and spot the DDs , however too many CV players are now just ignoring the DDs , and never help even when asked.

It seems now the CV will usually reverse out of reach as is the norm for obvious reasons , but will then also pick a side , and will only put his planes up on the side he is at , so if he is south of A cap , and you happen to be a C , you will never get help  

The thing is, when a CV goes for a DD, but nobody helps to kill him. Then it's wasted time (unless the enemy DD is derp and takes the damage or big RNG hits)

[Kacki25]

We got serious balance problems last time in game. There is to many smoke in game and nobody can spot because of no CV played in game. Every battleship camp behind island, dds if survive first 5 minutes got a paradise with torpedo or spotting. In last battle ostergotland spot whole our team and torp sinking 3 battleships. Its absolutely no counter against dds now unless focus fire. We need CV mechanics that work. CV must spot, counter destroyers, nerf camping players. AA is now OP.

 

For example: I check friesland historically he cant shot down more than 2-3 planes during single aircraft attack because he hasnt got enough guns to could fire to more targets. In game friesland could easily destroy whole squadrone alone if AA ability is on (i mean 8 planes during single attack). I think AA fire needs to be reworked. Nerf of rocket make them useless against destroyers and small cruisers. They also should do something with bombing squadrons, pilots get squint if they drop bomps.