General CV related discussions.

[mcboernester]

Change in games played from last week to this week

 

[Estaca_de_Bares]

Old dog rant: one thing I find annoying about this new MG strafing animation and delay for rocket planes is being warned about an incoming attack even if you're not the obvious target just because you happen to be in the vicinity. I get it, there's a squadron, I've seen it and its nature on the minimap for sure and most probably on the main view too, much appreciated the advice the first time but it's just a superfluous input by now.

 

Looking at it from the other side of the hill, it's reminiscent of the debacle from the original Graf Zeppelin release and her huge bomb drop travel time. So far, my only testing has been with Hosho (finally started the Five Epochs campaign so I decided to buy her back and give a try), hitting just once in a dozen attack runs against DDs in random battles. Mind you, I'm in no way proficient in reworked carriers, but it's no wonder many CV players have given up trying to fend destroyers by themselves when not personally threatened. As a currently DD main it's a relief, but I'm worried it also means an even greater disconnection among the different classes.

 

Salute.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Estaca_de_Bares said:

Old dog rant: one thing I find annoying about this new MG strafing animation and delay for rocket planes is being warned about an incoming attack even if you're not the obvious target just because you happen to be in the vicinity. I get it, there's a squadron, I've seen it and its nature on the minimap for sure and most probably on the main view too, much appreciated the advice the first time but it's just a superfluous input by now.

 

Looking at it from the other side of the hill, it's reminiscent of the debacle from the original Graf Zeppelin release and her huge bomb drop travel time. So far, my only testing has been with Hosho (finally started the Five Epochs campaign so I decided to buy her back and give a try), hitting just once in a dozen attack runs against DDs in random battles. Mind you, I'm in no way proficient in reworked carriers, but it's no wonder many CV players have given up trying to fend destroyers by themselves when not personally threatened. As a currently DD main it's a relief, but I'm worried it also means an even greater disconnection among the different classes.

 

Salute.

I agree, but then again I think rockets should not have been added in the first place. 

Note, too: Hosho has AP bombs, not suitable for hunting DDs. 

[Prophecy82]

20 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Change in games played from last week to this week

 

 

Big oof. 

Guess WG will buff CVs accordingly? 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Prophecy82 said:

Big oof. 

Guess WG will buff CVs accordingly? 

 

That depends on whether WG is finally willing to let the rework die like it deserves.

[CptBarney]

19 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

That depends on whether WG is finally willing to let the rework die like it deserves.

Nah comrade, we still need to sell black enterprise, vodkaprise and kremlin premiums for our large CV playerbase which is very popular at the moment.

And the croissants and pizza planus, but we don't talk about them.

 

And the second line of american CV's when we remember they exist comrade as well.

 

[Prophecy82]

48 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

That depends on whether WG is finally willing to let the rework die like it deserves.

 

Given the sunk-cost-fallacy-culture that was established over the last 2 years I think its unlikely to see it die. 

 

And what is the alternative? Never speak of CVs again? 

Actual balancing is not possible atm due to subs and even then I doubt its doable bcs of the nature of CVs and the resulting consequences for game mechanics (spotting).  

And personally I dont belive in a CV Rework 2.0

[BLUB__BLUB]

10 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

And personally I dont belive in a CV Rework 2.0

I do not think they'll do it. But in fact it would me quite easy to fix it all up. 

There's enough info from unicums and normal players to establish a general idea of what needs to be done. 

But I don't think they'll "fix it". All we get are "balance measures". 

 

[Prophecy82]

Just now, BLUB__BLUB said:

There's enough info from unicums and normal players to establish a general idea of what needs to be done. 

 

Given that they dont even listen to their own staff (thats what I get from that femmenely-Thread/Video) 

I highly doubt that they will listen to the community (or parts of it). 

Remember Fara? He wrote an essay what to do/change as Rework was in beta. He  got that nice answer: "Nope!"

 

For WG were all idiots that dont know what is good or bad. 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

29 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

But in fact it would me quite easy to fix it all up. 

There's enough info from unicums and normal players to establish a general idea of what needs to be done. 

 

You mean when we still had RTS CVs and Unicorns and normal (or slightly better than normal) players offered tons of ideas how to solve the problems CV made back then? Which probably would have had been way easier to implement, more probable to work and less destructive to other classes then the option that WG managed to pull out of their donkey?

Yeah...

Sure...

WG and feedback from players...

[mcboernester]

1 hour ago, Prophecy82 said:

Given that they dont even listen to their own staff (thats what I get from that femmenely-Thread/Video) 

I highly doubt that they will listen to the community (or parts of it). 

Remember Fara? He wrote an essay what to do/change as Rework was in beta. He  got that nice answer: "Nope!"

 

For WG were all idiots that dont know what is good or bad. 

Fara is a bad example here imho since the letter he wrote was very "demanding", like having a super negative tone to it and WG answered somewhat accordingly. From my experience so far WG is super bad in dealing with PR things in general ( surprise!) which will most likely errupt out of structural issues within the company itself that cannot be fixed by replacing certain employees or something, you would need some external support here to get you back in line. 

 

4 hours ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

Big oof. 

Guess WG will buff CVs accordingly? 

Thats like a multi layer issue right here, and i hope the chronological order is correct:

 

- The class wasn't popular before the rework either ( will add something interesting here at the end) 

- The first weeks it was just broken, but even after some initial nerfs WG made it super easy to play the rework cvs and opened the flood gates again to sell their premiums

- Despite just having created a full rework of the class WG removed Enterprise from the shop again cause its OP (My 2 Cents -> this is just sad) 

- Even though starting to touch some core mechanics like the rocket drop reticle or the speed of Midway DBs ( i still think its a bug but they let it in for good meassure) DDs got nuked and their population dropped

- WG started adding a line of more AA heavy DDs, "sell the solution to a selfmade problem" 

- WG forced CVs into Clanbattles, despite all criticism. As a result we had 3 seasons with literally a 4 ship meta. This goes for T10, aswell as T6 

- WG breaking its own philosophy by adding the FDR which is like 5 steps back cause of high alpha and super healthy planes 

- The focus already shifted at that point cause all energy goes towards Submarines 

- A new set of captain builds finally offered some sort of working AA build again, though i personally feel like it dropped beyond the radar for many 

- We are back at a level where certain ships will just obliterate squads predrop by using talents, def aa and sector aa

- The rocket change which kinda came out of nowhere again broke WGs rework philosophy by making the "counter" against DDs kinda meh against that class 

- WG had to hardban the 2 most powerful CVs out of CB. As a result hightier clans switched to 2 BB since the remaining CV alternatives are so badly balanced for competitive you won't use them

 

 

Right now we are at a point where the population is dropping straight towards RTS levels ( i expect another heavy drop this weekend). this brings up the question -> what was the intention of the rewok? In the end player numbers hardly saw a change without the first weeks after launch and the class is still horribly implemented. You still have a big part of tomatos just sucking with them and again a handfull of super unicums that will control games, despite not being able to directly engage enemy fighters. 

 

So as long as the class is faceroll people will play it, but once they start adjusting stuff it just dies. It was EXACTLY the same with RTS Carriers. First they changed squad layouts with 0.5.3 , then start adding more and more AA heavy ships into the game. Because of that you had to adjust your playstyle and this is where i see the biggest parallel to the current situation. The implementation itself is just as horrible as RTS and they even managed to bring Bugs into the game ppl happily exploited  The map boarder rubberband effect is still around "its a feature", their solution towards the fighter despawn exploit was to extend the firing time of fighters and for slingshot to extend the Cooldown between drops..... Guess what, with the addition of the consumeable mod for CVs you are back in business for the fighter stuff ! Drop and trigger the fighter with planes that have a heal -> let the animation finish -> pop heal -> planes survive. 

 

 

And regarding the popularity thing at the start -> Those are the % for games played over 3 years before the rework. Hightier 2016 and 17 are above rework numbers, lowtier for 2016. This also means there where way less sealclubbers around and i can tell why cause playing CVs in lowtier nowadays is even more of a joke as it was in RTS, #whatisAA

 

 

[Prophecy82]

37 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

what was the intention of the rewok?

What do you think? 

 

After that RP change it seems to me like a total failure. Since the Change widened the skillgap and increased the skillfloor. And I thought the contrary was the intention of the rework. 

Dont get me wrong, they are still cheap and easy to play af and still influence the battles the most... but just not for the average potato anymore. 

 

The only thing that "sticks" is, that: 

a) WG alienated a lot of old Players by the rework. 

b) did a lot of cash by selling CVs to new players. 

 

And now they are alienating the (b)-Types again.... is this their way of generating more cash? Hoping for a constant flow of new cows to milk?

I guess they can do this cycle with subs once more... but after that?

 

[Prophecy82]

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Im sorry, but your ramblings have nothing to do with the stuff Im trying to discuss here. 

[H_Menapii]

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And see what HP that gives you ?!!!

 

[Capra76]

6 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Right now we are at a point where the population is dropping straight towards RTS levels ( i expect another heavy drop this weekend). this brings up the question -> what was the intention of the rewok?

 

It strikes me that there's a team of developers within the company looking for a reason to exist, maybe they honestly thought they really could implement CV into the game in a better way, and maybe they thought subs could be made to work, but the reality is the game would probably be in a better place if most of them had been sacked in 2017 and the remaining development efforts spent improving the game.

 

 

[H_Menapii]

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If you start hearing things on a forum, i advise you to see a doctor sir !

[SV_Kompresor]

8 hours ago, Hank_Flemish said:

now i got skills

You really don't.

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

You know the more interesting part is that you actually have to start actively sabotaging your team to reach WRs that low.

No, that's actually the result of him diving up with players of similar below average skill. Just like unicums can get boosted to superunicum status, tomatoes can get downed to rotten tomatoes.

[BLUB__BLUB]

13 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

You know the more interesting part is that you actually have to start actively sabotaging your team to reach WRs that low.

Well, I have some ships that I have similar WR in.... 

But I agree that it is active sabotage, in that case done by WeeGee.

And I promise never to regrind that line and sell them immediately. 

 

12 hours ago, SV_Kompresor said:

No, that's actually the result of him diving up with players of similar below average skill. Just like unicums can get boosted to superunicum status, tomatoes can get downed to rotten tomatoes.

Have you ever tried 3x Riga... 

[Prophecy82]

15 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

You know the more interesting part is that you actually have to start actively sabotaging your team to reach WRs that low.

 

How do you do this? (Asking for a friend here )

[Sunleader]

28 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

How do you do this? (Asking for a friend here )

 

Mostly Morale Damage and Early Game Disadvantage.

 

You take a High Value Ship like a CV or DD and then Yolo to Die Early.

That way alot of your Teammates will be Annoyed right away which is often enough to cause alot of Average Players to not even Try anymore. And as you Blocked a CV or DD Slot your Team will also Fight with a Heavy Disadvantage if you Die Early.

[Prophecy82]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

 

Mostly Morale Damage and Early Game Disadvantage.

 

You take a High Value Ship like a CV or DD and then Yolo to Die Early.

That way alot of your Teammates will be Annoyed right away which is often enough to cause alot of Average Players to not even Try anymore. And as you Blocked a CV or DD Slot your Team will also Fight with a Heavy Disadvantage if you Die Early.

 

Is there a way to do this without early death and specifically sitting in a CV? 

[Sunleader]

2 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

Is there a way to do this without early death and specifically sitting in a CV? 

 

There is. But if with such Restriction its actually Difficult to do that.

 

 

On one Hand. As a CV if you Play Badly you will actually reach a Lower Winrate by Default. Because CVs have higher Match Influence. So Your Skill vs the Skill of the Enemy Teams CV has a much Bigger Impact.

Which also means if your Playing Worse than the Enemy CV you will automaticly Lose more often than with normal Ships where your Impact is easier to Compensate for by your Team.

This is also why doing a Yaolo with a CV and Dying Early Really Hurts your Team ALOT.

 

On the other Hand however. As a CV it is actually more Difficult to Actively Sabotage your Team and Reach very low Winrate without Directly Yoloing. Because even if you dont Hit at all with your Attacks and dont actively seek out Key Targets. You still Spot Enemies and Provide Advantages to your Team by Accident as Enemies you attack try to Dodge your Attacks.

 

Meaning to Actively Sabotage your Team with a CV without Dying Early or going AFK you really need to put in Effort. As you need to Attack and Miss Targets which are Entirely Worthless and not actually Close to anything Valuable.

You also need to make sure to always Drop your Weapons in a way which does not cause the Enemy to Dodge your Attack and Show Broadside to your Team. Or which Forces Enemies to Dodge and thus Abandon or Lose a Key Positions Control.

 

 

[UnterSeeBot]

Just spotted on WOWS Reddit, 

pure gold

---

RN Director of Naval Gunnery talking about the proposed conversion of lion class battleships in 1941 and not holding back:

"The functions and requirements of carriers and of surface gun platforms are entirely incompatible ... the conceptions of these designs ... is evidently the result of an unresolved contest between a conscious acceptance of aircraft and a subconscious desire for a 1914 Fleet ... these abortions are the results of a psychological maladjustment. "

He's not wrong.

source: Layman, R. D.; McLaughlin, Stephen (1991). The Hybrid Warship: The Amalgamation of Big Guns and Aircraft. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press. ISBN 978-1-55750-374-9

---

 

 

[UnterSeeBot]

Royal Navy reminding Wargaming HQ in Cyprus that Audacious needs more buffs.

[Tugnut]

Quick question... is it a bug that if rocket planes even sniff land their aim is totaly out... or is it by design to make them even worse than they all ready are?