General CV related discussions.

[Nibenay78]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Nah but I get rekt by them often enough, meanwhile spamming the F3. 

Guess what, nothing happens. Usually I am the only one shooting at the DD. 

I even do it with BBs (seems to be quite rare a BB shooting a DD). 

Personally I fire when DD is at max between 10-15km in a BB. This depends on gunarc of my own cannons and angle/speed/actively avoidance of the DD. They are priority targets for me, yet it's not always worth firing on.

You should really try to play DD a bit more and see how it is once people notice you...

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

the (rare... very rare...) times that I play DD, I lose to the CV about 1 in 20 games.

Mostly I get whacked by other DDs (because I suck), and by cruisers that I am trying to kill.

BBs have no chance. I kill them, they don't kill me. They don't see me, and when they do it is too late.

If you die in the initial encounter, the CV doesn't have to stress with you and it will never be experienced as a problem.

On the other hand, a bit of spotting damage and maybe a half-arsed strike from the CV can be enough to lose the DD encounters.

 

The real pain is when you ARE engaged, every salvo counts and SHOULD hit. It leaves little time for juking both against DD fire/possible incoming torps and watching exactly where the rocket strike will come.

 

Often when one defeats the inital DD, there can be a path to the CV, yet even sneaking up on him is a rather high risk. I've seen quite a few DDs start gunning at max range, only to die from incessant rocket spam and/or incoming support fire. It kinda breaks verisimilitude that it's harder to gun down a CV with high arc DDs

 

Other option is that it's so late game that noone is close to you when you are CV..and those who are close should not be trusted to pay attention the slightest.

 

 

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

Hahaha. and that 'careful balancing' takes them over the 2 year mark, is still ongoing while throwing in new wrenches like the absurd and completely different working FDR and now the unpredictable different working russian carriers everyone was asking for.

 

My behind is more balanced... I think I will get Komrade Balansokov just to grief newbies... Just gotta be careful about the weak spot behind the 3rd turret on the right side.

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It is like, you have a car with no brakes, you take it to the garage.

You come back, they have washed it and given it new shiny bumpers and a free airbag. 

It's shiney and blingblingy!

[Pikkozoikum]

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

No doubt they listen to feedback of the player experience and perception! 

screenshot from 43:20

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

well, not sure if you are serious or sarcastic.

 

For the case you mean it sarcastic: Yes, rofl lol!

For the case you mean it serious: They do, you can even see that lately, when they implemented deck guns, periscope depth and dive capacity. That were all player requested, and in case of the deck guns: They actually said earlier, they don't add them. They change it because of the players.

 

The thing is, the players feedback is often in conflict. One says AA is op, the other says AA is too weak. Some say the AA is fine. You can't  listen to all. Also it's pretty bad, if you only go with the players opinion. It would be very chaotic. Players often think they know it better, though they have only their view and experience, not the whole view and data.

 

In my opinion the best would be, if they take the data, then a few good players and discuss that together.

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

2 hours ago, Europizza said:

Hahaha. and that 'careful balancing' takes them over the 2 year mark, is still ongoing while throwing in new wrenches like the absurd and completely different working FDR and now the unpredictable different working russian carriers everyone was asking for.

 

Japanese ships also got balance patches after years... Balancing is something, that will never end in such type of pvp game. Just look at any pvp game with different classes. So I don't like the sarcasm about that, not saying, that I like the decisions made by Wargaming.

 

I would do it compeltly different like WG is doing it, but also I don't like this exessive hate and sarcasm. If I would disagree in such a manner, I probably wouldn't play this game or write in the forum

 

There is a lot questionable stuff in this game, but still I don't start to misquote and misinterpret their statements like this "we balance for popularity"

 

For example the aircrafts on Hakuryu, the J5N as TB and DB. That's something I really can't believe, why they had this decision. The J5N is an interceptor fighter, that never launched from an aircraft carrier nor it carries heavy bombs or torpedos (max 1x250kg bomb, though Navalbombers had 500kg to 800kg bombs)

It's so weird to me

[Nibenay78]

27 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

well, not sure if you are serious or sarcastic.

 

For the case you mean it sarcastic: Yes, rofl lol!

It was very sarcastic. I have the feeling its like this (in general, not just CV)

 

Players: kremlin is quite strong compared to other BBs

WG: lets nerf AA

 

Players: Long range HE spam from Thunderer is OP and boring. Firechance should be less.

WG: lets reduce range 1%

 

For the record I have Thunderer, I like to play it because it has good stealth and can sneak up on unsuspecting victims with AP (if there is no CV around). But the long range HE spam just works too good...

27 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

For the case you mean it serious: They do, you can even see that lately, when they implemented deck guns, periscope depth and dive capacity. That were all player requested, and in case of the deck guns: They actually said earlier, they don't add them. They change it because of the players.

Subs is under development, they better at least try out a few things. Personally I stay away from the circus so I have no idea what's going on. 

They ALSO said that "There will be no submarines in the game! They don't fit. Period." - I wonder if it was massive player pressure in ~1000 post threads that made them consider adding them.... (sarcasm alert)

 

27 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

 

The thing is, the players feedback is often in conflict. One says AA is op, the other says AA is too weak. Some say the AA is fine. You can't  listen to all. Also it's pretty bad, if you only go with the players opinion. It would be very chaotic. Players often think they know it better, though they have only their view and experience, not the whole view and data.

 

In my opinion the best would be, if they take the data, then a few good players and discuss that together.

We all know people will give feedback all over the place, which is why people should give a reason WHY. I can say CVs suck, but why?

As a number person, I agree spreadsheets and statistic are important. But they also need to be interpereted correctly and they only show "balance", not fun. Like I've repeated many times, it's really easy to make a ship that is "perfectly" balanced in terms of damage/winrate/game impact, but completely unfun for everyone.

 

As far as I can see, they don't give a crap what the CC says. I'm certainly not a fan of Flamu's "style" (incessant whining) on his vids, but he IS a good player and certainly makes some good points in regards to gameplay.

Another thing is - if you give out a question to enough people, some will come up with good ideas regardless of their ingame knowledge. 

[Pikkozoikum]

5 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

It was very sarcastic. I have the feeling its like this (in general, not just CV)

 

Players: kremlin is quite strong compared to other BBs

WG: lets nerf AA

 

Players: Long range HE spam from Thunderer is OP and boring. Firechance should be less.

WG: lets reduce range 1%

 

For the record I have Thunderer, I like to play it because it has good stealth and can sneak up on unsuspecting victims with AP (if there is no CV around). But the long range HE spam just works too good...

On the one hand, I think small changes might seem small, but can have way bigger effect, than a player could notice. On the other hand, I would buff and nerf way harder, Kremlin and all the russian ships get the icebreaker armor removed. Somehow I have that "feeling" that those ships would become acutal balanced ships then xD

 

7 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Subs is under development, they better at least try out a few things. Personally I stay away from the circus so I have no idea what's going on. 

They ALSO said that "There will be no submarines in the game! They don't fit. Period." - I wonder if it was massive player pressure in ~1000 post threads that made them consider adding them.... (sarcasm alert)

Actually I asked for submarines. But then like Chieftain said, never say never. Things can change.

And a funny story: A few years ago, RTS -CV times, I actually had the idea and proposal to change the AA. Since they don't want manual AA and the automated AA is boring and weird with the click-thing, I suggested to add AA sectors. My idea was a bit different ,that you have to place a sector similar to the torpedo-spread visual-indicator.

Well, years later we got aa sectors, not manual placeable, but still aa sectors. I'm really wondering, if they went with my idea of these sectors and just altered it, because it was really quite similar ^^

My idea was something between manual and automated.

 

11 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

We all know people will give feedback all over the place, which is why people should give a reason WHY. I can say CVs suck, but why?

As a number person, I agree spreadsheets and statistic are important. But they also need to be interpereted correctly and they only show "balance", not fun. Like I've repeated many times, it's really easy to make a ship that is "perfectly" balanced in terms of damage/winrate/game impact, but completely unfun for everyone.

 

As far as I can see, they don't give a crap what the CC says. I'm certainly not a fan of Flamu's "style" (incessant whining) on his vids, but he IS a good player and certainly makes some good points in regards to gameplay.

Well one thing is, that we sadly can't see their statistic. Once they showed it in a stream, that was very interesting, but they did that so rarely. And well, I think it'S good that they don't listen to the CCs, because that are very often more people, who rate gameplay over any other stuff. Just like statsbloke, I like that streamer, but he said he liked the submarines in the last test more, than in the current test. And well, the last test (not the latest) was so terrible. The latest was a bit better, that one before was way to much like modern submarines, totally not the gameplay, that I would expect from a second world war game. Arcade or not,

15 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Another thing is - if you give out a question to enough people, some will come up with good ideas regardless of their ingame knowledge. 

I hope they do that with the surveys

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Japanese ships also got balance patches after years... Balancing is something, that will never end in such type of pvp game. Just look at any pvp game with different classes. So I don't like the sarcasm about that, not saying, that I like the decisions made by Wargaming.

 

I would do it compeltly different like WG is doing it, but also I don't like this exessive hate and sarcasm. If I would disagree in such a manner, I probably wouldn't play this game or write in the forum

 

There is a lot questionable stuff in this game, but still I don't start to misquote and misinterpret their statements like this "we balance for popularity"

 

For example the aircrafts on Hakuryu, the J5N as TB and DB. That's something I really can't believe, why they had this decision. The J5N is an interceptor fighter, that never launched from an aircraft carrier nor it carries heavy bombs or torpedos (max 1x250kg bomb, though Navalbombers had 500kg to 800kg bombs)

It's so weird to me

There is a reason why you keep referring to the FDR as not a good example for carrier play: It's an entirely different concept. The new russian carriers are also a new concept being trown into the mix. This exercise isn't anything like 'balancing IJN BB's'. Development and management are taking the total piss here and are throwing out new concepts while keeping the failed ones live. The only problem here is AA is unchanged and works the same for all new concepts. That is why 100k plane damage means fk all against a FDR, AA means absolutely nothing when dutch air strikes spawn 4 km from your ship, means nothing much against Hybrids with single strike capability and endless plane reserves and god knows what AA will do or not do against russian carriers.

As for your 'subtle' hint about me still playing this game: I usually don't give a toss about individual carriers in my matches, but I'm sure that's not a concept you can grasp. And I'm still writing about carriers and AA on this forum because I'm amusing myself with characters like you, who endlessly struggle to 'explain' away grievences people have with what I would call the worst pvp class design I've seen in 25 years of gaming. Characters who are proven wrong time after time after time up to the point where they start to wonder if the people disputing them actually read their drivel because they feel 'misunderstood'. ^^

[Nibenay78]

11 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

On the one hand, I think small changes might seem small, but can have way bigger effect, than a player could notice. On the other hand, I would buff and nerf way harder, Kremlin and all the russian ships get the icebreaker armor removed. Somehow I have that "feeling" that those ships would become acutal balanced ships then xD

That was my point. AA and Range wasn't the issue at all. It was icebreaker/frontal resillience and the massive HE damage/fire.

11 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

 

Actually I asked for submarines. But then like Chieftain said, never say never. Things can change.

And a funny story: A few years ago, RTS -CV times, I actually had the idea and proposal to change the AA. Since they don't want manual AA and the automated AA is boring and weird with the click-thing, I suggested to add AA sectors. My idea was a bit different ,that you have to place a sector similar to the torpedo-spread visual-indicator.

Well, years later we got aa sectors, not manual placeable, but still aa sectors. I'm really wondering, if they went with my idea of these sectors and just altered it, because it was really quite similar ^^

My idea was something between manual and automated.

The click thingy was something, in fact it gave you a choice at least. Do you shoot down torpedoplanes? divebombers? or help the other CV by giving extra attention to the enemy fighters. 

 

Pressing O is even less fun.

 

11 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well one thing is, that we sadly can't see their statistic. Once they showed it in a stream, that was very interesting, but they did that so rarely.

I'd love to see it, but transparency is probably not a known word in WGs bunker.

 

11 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

And well, I think it'S good that they don't listen to the CCs, because that are very often more people, who rate gameplay over any other stuff. Just like statsbloke, I like that streamer, but he said he liked the submarines in the last test more, than in the current test. And well, the last test (not the latest) was so terrible. The latest was a bit better, that one before was way to much like modern submarines, totally not the gameplay, that I would expect from a second world war game. Arcade or not,

what do you mean? CCs dont care about gameplay? I didn't get that.

 

Gameplay is essential, even unbalanced ships are survivable as long as everyone is having fun. Again I'm all for having CVs and subs in the game, as long as it's a positive addition, not a negative for the core gameplay.

However for many, including me, balance is generally included in an enjoyable game. Just the fact that CV is hard limited shows how badly they are integrated in the game. 

 

11 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I hope they do that with the surveys

you mean those amazing "how was your last battle experience"? Those I always rate "extremely dissatisfied" whenever there is anything that smells like a CV ingame? I'm sure these are invaluable for WG.

For the record: I ONCE got a survey about the gameplay that was non-cv related.... (and I answered properly and giving my reasons why I answer like I do!)

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Personally I fire when DD is at max between 10-15km in a BB. This depends on gunarc of my own cannons and angle/speed/actively avoidance of the DD. They are priority targets for me, yet it's not always worth firing on.

You should really try to play DD a bit more and see how it is once people notice you...

Well I often go a bit nuts when I play DD. I am old and slow, my son is a whole lot better with DDs.
The main differences when the dakka needs to be applied, he survives and kills the other DD, and I almost never do - unless I ambush them.

Then they have not much of a chance. Same for other ships. I play it a careful, because I know I am no good when it gets too busy.

 

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

If you die in the initial encounter, the CV doesn't have to stress with you and it will never be experienced as a problem.

On the other hand, a bit of spotting damage and maybe a half-arsed strike from the CV can be enough to lose the DD encounters.

Usually I do not die in the first encounter at all. I sneak around, using the concealment, and try to choose confrontations wisely. 

Sometimes this has great success, but not usually. After a few DD games I always need a bit of rest... it is so chaotic. 

 

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

The real pain is when you ARE engaged, every salvo counts and SHOULD hit. It leaves little time for juking both against DD fire/possible incoming torps and watching exactly where the rocket strike will come.

Yeah well, often I tend to lose those fights pretty quickly, CV or not.

I'm just no good at all juking and dakka-ing at the same time. Pulling Notsers in the process, also guaranteed. 

 

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Often when one defeats the inital DD, there can be a path to the CV, yet even sneaking up on him is a rather high risk. I've seen quite a few DDs start gunning at max range, only to die from incessant rocket spam and/or incoming support fire. It kinda breaks verisimilitude that it's harder to gun down a CV with high arc DDs

Not so much a rocket problem anymore, eh. In some CVs all you can do is run. 

And yes, CVs are hated so their teammates WILL HELP to get the Cv dead, that's for sure. 

 

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Other option is that it's so late game that noone is close to you when you are CV..and those who are close should not be trusted to pay attention the slightest.

I didn't mean when a DD attacks a CV as especially the CV. In general, teammates (AKA random weekend plebs...) do not fire at DDs.

Of course that fat broadside BB is much more juicy... and setting fires... and... well, everything. If that DD is not a direct threath to themself, they do not care.

But, even in clan battles I always remind everybody, the DD is main target. Spotted = shoot him. 

 

[Edi4Play]

Cheers guys,

 

Haven't been playing for quite a while now, and I recently started playing again.

 

So I noticed that CV's (I play mainly Hakuryu) aren't as good/damage dealing as they were b4.

Could someone briefly tell me what has happend and what did they nerf?

 

I noticed rocket planes now take a crap load of time to attack a ship, making it quite hard to hit a faster dd like Marceau etc...

[BLUB__BLUB]

10 minutes ago, Edi4Play said:

Could someone briefly tell me what has happend

Reeeeeeee happened.

 

10 minutes ago, Edi4Play said:

 ...and what did they nerf?

everything except what was needed. 

[Pikkozoikum]

1 hour ago, Edi4Play said:

Cheers guys,

 

Haven't been playing for quite a while now, and I recently started playing again.

 

So I noticed that CV's (I play mainly Hakuryu) aren't as good/damage dealing as they were b4.

Could someone briefly tell me what has happend and what did they nerf?

 

I noticed rocket planes now take a crap load of time to attack a ship, making it quite hard to hit a faster dd like Marceau etc...

I think it was 4s until they shoot the rockets, so you have to give lead.
But it seems that rockets have better dispersion. I think you use rockets only against busy or even stationary DDs, but not to hunt down primarly DDs. YOu could even use them against Crusers or some BBs (did once 12k hit on a french bb)

[Edi4Play]

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

...But it seems that rockets have better dispersion. 

Yh I noticed that. It may be slow af however it seems to do a lot more damage against bbs and cruisers then how it used to be... I can do 8-10k on a good hit which is rly noice 

 

Its a pity tho that You cant counter dds anymore when they decide to rush You.. 

[Pikkozoikum]

14 minutes ago, Edi4Play said:

Yh I noticed that. It may be slow af however it seems to do a lot more damage against bbs and cruisers then how it used to be... I can do 8-10k on a good hit which is rly noice 

 

Its a pity tho that You cant counter dds anymore when they decide to rush You.. 

though I think that is acutally good. People are complaining about, that the CV is almighty, so there is some way to play against a CV, that he is somehow defensiveless, unless it's a secondary GZ

[Deckeru_Maiku]

17 minutes ago, Edi4Play said:

Yh I noticed that. It may be slow af however it seems to do a lot more damage against bbs and cruisers then how it used to be... I can do 8-10k on a good hit which is rly noice 

 

Its a pity tho that You cant counter dds anymore when they decide to rush You.. 

I guess those who are way better at playing CVs than me would call it a case of "Git gud"

[Nibenay78]

19 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

I guess those who are way better at playing CVs than me would call it a case of "Git gud"

Just adapt you mean...

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But it seems that rockets have better dispersion.

 

Rocket dispersion was not changed.

Rocket attack angle however was. That results in worse accuracy overall.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Rocket dispersion was not changed.

Rocket attack angle however was. That results in worse accuracy overall.

Hmm, weird, it felt like the rockets do more damage. Against Repu almost 13k with japanese planes, can't remember having that ever before. And someone mentioned the dispersion here, so I thought, they changed something

[blue_badgerest]

13 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Hmm, weird, it felt like the rockets do more damage. Against Repu almost 13k with japanese planes, can't remember having that ever before. And someone mentioned the dispersion here, so I thought, they changed something

You only remember the good ones then

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

22 hours ago, Edi4Play said:

 

Its a pity tho that You cant counter dds anymore when they decide to rush You.. 

I'll just treat them like I usually do... 

Spoiler

 

[qtback]

hello, i want to add post about cv, ppl often complain me that i have to spot dd  and  do my job,

 

after big negative company versus cv like bancv, killcv, rapecv and e.t.c

 

nowdays i as  cv need 3-4 + run to kill dd, so only way is to spot for those guys who did everything to nerf cv and make my game not fun,

 

also it means that i cant get statistics and game is also not fun any more,

 

spent 38m credits for spotting for community who killed cv is not ok for me,

 

now guys move and kill dd yourself, or ask wg to add spotter to your ship, because spending 38m  for spotting is not ok for me, it  gives me neither statistics, nor fun, though i want to enjoy game aswell, so i will play for my fun, farm damage and decide whom to attack and when.

 

cv-s join my protest  and lets tell dev-s this way that killing cv because of clan ban/killcv wanted to play 3-4x  french dd-s is not normal.

[BLUB__BLUB]

8 minutes ago, qtback said:

now guys move and kill dd yourself, or ask wg to add spotter to your ship, because spending 38m  for spotting is not ok for me, it  gives me neither statistics, nor fun, though i want to enjoy game aswell, so i will play for my fun, farm damage and decide whom to attack and when.

Exactly this.  I might kill or pester a DD here-and-there, but I do not regard it as a CV task anymore. 

[AndyHill]

What ever you do, do NOT protest by not playing CVs anymore, that would be so unbearable.

[qtback]

5 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

What ever you do, do NOT protest by not playing CVs anymore, that would be so unbearable.

 

it think best way now is to ignore spotting dd-s, that will make them to change something.

 

if they fix cv , that will be nice, if they will find solution so ppl will not bully me when i farm damage rather then to waste half game spotting, also will be ok .

[159Hunter]

33 minutes ago, qtback said:

 

it think best way now is to ignore spotting dd-s, that will make them to change something.

 

if they fix cv , that will be nice, if they will find solution so ppl will not bully me when i farm damage rather then to waste half game spotting, also will be ok .

So you play this game to pad your dmg stats and not to win.

Good to know.

[qtback]

maybe i have my point of view about winning ))