General CV related discussions.

[Miscommunication_dept]

10 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

And how you have a larger skill gap, while it's easier? xD

A skill gap means, that it is harder

Large skill gap doesn’t mean that a poor player cannot do anything.

 

If the class is overpowered a player might still be able to kill things and feel powerful while having a 30% win rate.

 

Win rate will stay low because they are matched against another CV.

Damage remains high as other classes have limited counterplay.

[Pikkozoikum]

4 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Large skill gap doesn’t mean that a poor player cannot do anything.

 

If the class is overpowered a player might still be able to kill things and feel powerful while having a 30% win rate.

 

Win rate will stay low because they are matched against another CV.

Damage remains high as other classes have limited counterplay.

If a class is overpowered has nothing to do with the skill?

 

If there is a large skill gap, then you need a lot skill to master it. That means it's not easy ^^

 

So it can't be "there is a large skill gap and it's easy"

You could also say it has a high difficulty to play, though a skill gap doesn't always mean, there has to be a high difficult. That could be just one reason for a skill gap

[Miscommunication_dept]

13 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

If a class is overpowered has nothing to do with the skill?

 

If there is a large skill gap, then you need a lot skill to master it. That means it's not easy ^^

 

So it can't be "there is a large skill gap and it's easy"

You could also say it has a high difficulty to play, though a skill gap doesn't always mean, there has to be a high difficult. That could be just one reason for a skill gap

Of course there can!

 

Have you ever heard of the terms ‘skill floor’ and ‘skill ceiling’?

 

A high skill ceiling doesn’t need to mean a high skill floor.

[Nov_A]

59 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Of course there can!

 

Have you ever heard of the terms ‘skill floor’ and ‘skill ceiling’?

 

A high skill ceiling doesn’t need to mean a high skill floor.

Now we only need some skill walls and a skill door, then we have a skill house.

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Funny enough, that people say, that skill gap is bigger, but at the same time, that now everyone, even bad player are able to do something with the CV.... Both can't be true ^^

The RTS had a high skill gap. Bad CV player sucked hard against good CV players. If something is hard to play -> high skill gap

It can still both be true. 

 

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

And how you have a larger skill gap, while it's easier? xD

A skill gap means, that it is harder

No, a skill GAP means that there is a (skill) "wall" to pass. 

Some people get stuck on one side of that wall, and yes they can still do something. 

Other people pass that "wall" and after that it gets REALLY easy for them to wreck the crap out of everything.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It can still both be true. 

 

No, a skill GAP means that there is a (skill) "wall" to pass. 

Some people get stuck on one side of that wall, and yes they can still do something. 

Other people pass that "wall" and after that it gets REALLY easy for them to wreck the crap out of everything.

That might be your definition, but when you look up the definition for skill gap, then it's a gap of the skill, not a wall. Otherwise you would call it skill wall?

 

If you can rate the level of skill of a player from 0 to 100. Unicums would be aroun skill level of 80, bad players around skill level of 30

Then it can be something like RTS CV, that requires a skill level of 80 to be understand it fully and master it.

Thus there is no skill gap for unicums with skill level of 80

But people with a skill level of 30 would have a huge gap between 30 to 80 (50)

 

If the reworked CV is now so easy to play, then the skill requirement is lower, for example 50

Unicums are over the requirement, and bad players have a small gap 50-30=20

50 is a large skill gap, 20 is a small skill gap.

 

 

3 hours ago, gopher31 said:

Of course there can!

 

Have you ever heard of the terms ‘skill floor’ and ‘skill ceiling’?

 

A high skill ceiling doesn’t need to mean a high skill floor.

That doesn't explain anything about the skill gap...

A high skill floor would mean, it's easy -> no skill gap

A high skill ceiling would mean, it's hard to master -> skill gap

 

 

 

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

14 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

 

 

 

That doesn't explain anything about the skill gap...

A high skill floor would mean, it's easy -> no skill gap

A high skill ceiling would mean, it's hard to master -> skill gap

 

 

 

 

A low skill floor would mean it’s easy.

I find driving easy, and can do it well. I would not try to race Lewis Hamilton.

 

Low skill floor, high skill ceiling.

 

Some ships have greater potential than others and are overpowered in some hands but weak in most players hands.

 

Others are easy to learn but have less potential. These might be long range HE spammers for example.

 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

52 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That might be your definition, but when you look up the definition for skill gap, then it's a gap of the skill, not a wall. Otherwise you would call it skill wall?

 

If you can rate the level of skill of a player from 0 to 100. Unicums would be aroun skill level of 80, bad players around skill level of 30

Then it can be something like RTS CV, that requires a skill level of 80 to be understand it fully and master it.

Thus there is no skill gap for unicums with skill level of 80

But people with a skill level of 30 would have a huge gap between 30 to 80 (50)

If you want to try and underaatamnd it THAT way, it would be like this:

- players below level 80 will eat FLAK. They can do1 or maybe 2 attacks.

- players above level 80 will never eat FLAk,. They do 7 attacks or whatever they can. 

 

52 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

If the reworked CV is now so easy to play, then the skill requirement is lower, for example 50

Unicums are over the requirement, and bad players have a small gap 50-30=20

50 is a large skill gap, 20 is a small skill gap.

I'd say the skill gap is stil rather large. 

 

 

52 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That doesn't explain anything about the skill gap...

A high skill floor would mean, it's easy -> no skill gap

A high skill ceiling would mean, it's hard to master -> skill gap

You do not understand the meaning of "gap". 

[159Hunter]

7 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

You do not understand the meaning of "gap". 

He does, however it doesn't fit has narrative 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

He does, however it doesn't fit has narrative 

When nonsense is a narrative. 

Easy to learn, hard to master <- gap

[Pikkozoikum]

10 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

If you want to try and underaatamnd it THAT way, it would be like this:

- players below level 80 will eat FLAK. They can do1 or maybe 2 attacks.

- players above level 80 will never eat FLAk,. They do 7 attacks or whatever they can. 

No, players below skill level 80 can be very different

skill level below 30 might eat a lot flak, but a skill level 50-70 just sometimes take a flak hit ;)

 

9 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I'd say the skill gap is stil rather large. 

Yes, as I said, some say skill gap is large, and some say CV is easy

 

9 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

You do not understand the meaning of "gap". 

Gap: ,____,
Wall: ||

 

 

[Excavatus]

11 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

 

 

That doesn't explain anything about the skill gap...

A high skill floor would mean, it's easy -> no skill gap

A high skill ceiling would mean, it's hard to master -> skill gap

 

 

 

 

You have no idea what you talking about mate. 

 

Skill Floor : The min skill level you need to have to be effective in a ship. 

Skill Ceiling : the effectiveness level of a ship, increasing with the skill level of the player who is playing her.. 

 

Examples: 

 

Low skill floor ship : you don't need to be skillful to be somewhat effective in the ship => Smoliensky! 

High skill floor ship : you need to know the game and you need particulat skills to be effective in the ship => Henry IV! 

 

Low skill ceiling ship : you can be the top player in this game, the best! most skillfull, this is a ship that you cannot carry potatoes => Monarch! 

High Skill Ceiling Ship : This ship can carry you above the clouds, If you know this game enough => Daring!

 

So a ship can be low skill floor and a high skill ceiling ship.. which means easy to play, and have the potential to carry potatoes like no tomorrow.. 

 

That is the skill gap we are talking about.. 

I hope this makes a little brighter.. 

[Pikkozoikum]

10 hours ago, gopher31 said:

A low skill floor would mean it’s easy.

I find driving easy, and can do it well. I would not try to race Lewis Hamilton.

 

Low skill floor, high skill ceiling.

 

Some ships have greater potential than others and are overpowered in some hands but weak in most players hands.

 

Others are easy to learn but have less potential. These might be long range HE spammers for example.

 

 

 

Yes, but it's about skill gap and about those statements, which were made like

-"CV has a large skill gap" I guess I even read, that someone said it's larger than RTS

-But also there are statements, that CV is very easy to play (to master), that it's very easy to get high WR etc.

I see a conflict here

[Pikkozoikum]

13 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

So a ship can be low skill floor and a high skill ceiling ship.. which means easy to play, and have the potential to carry potatoes like no tomorrow.. 

That would mean, that the skill gap is low. Because even bad players can fulfil the skill gap... The required skill is low, the gap should be non-existent or low for most players

 

If the required skill for a ship is large and the skill of a player low, then the skill gap is large

 

At least by the definitions I see
"Skills gap refers to the difference between the skills required for a job and the skills employee actually possesses."

[Excavatus]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

"Skills gap refers to the difference between the skills required for a job and the skills employee actually possesses."

In World Of Warships, 

 

Skill gap means, 

The difference between the player skill level and effectiveness over the battle in a given ship. It does not count what an individual player can do instead look into the situation regarding two player relative to each other. 

 

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

40 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Yes, but it's about skill gap and about those statements, which were made like

-"CV has a large skill gap" I guess I even read, that someone said it's larger than RTS

-But also there are statements, that CV is very easy to play (to master), that it's very easy to get high WR etc.

I see a conflict here

I and others have already explained how both statements could be true.

 

I could repeat myself but I’d like I’m feeding the trolls!

[Pikkozoikum]

29 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

In World Of Warships, 

 

Skill gap means, 

The difference between the player skill level and effectiveness over the battle in a given ship. It does not count what an individual player can do instead look into the situation regarding two player relative to each other. 

 

 

So its for World of Warships by your definition:

 

Player A skill + effectivness compared to Player B skill + effectiveness

 

 That's quite weird, because the effectiveness depends on the skill, which also would make it very unclear, where the gap lays.

 

Low skill players would have less effect in a battle. High skill players would have high effect. There is the gap, but it's obviously skill depending. Even in a bad ship would be there a big gap ^^

 

Pick Montana, Republique, Yamato etc. Good players will have high effect, bad players will have very low effect. There would be a large skill gap.

 

 

Though I saw that as an issue with the RTS, that the impact of a single ship type like the RTS CV was too high and thus a good player would use the impact, while a bad player wouldn't

But I wouldn't call that skill gap ^^

The terms are "skill" and "gap"

 

In a job definition it's the difference beteween required skill and available skill. Like if someone has a skill level of 30, but the job needs a skill level of 50, then there would be a skill gap of 20. In case you could express something like that in numbers

In a definition between players I would see that something like a player has a skill level 30 and another player has a skill level of 80, thus the skill gap would be 50.

If now the effectivenss of ship is included or the impact, I wouldn't call that skill gap tbh

Should be called influence gap, impact gap or effectiveness gap. Since the skill is always "there" A good player is good, no matter which ship. But the strength/impact of a ship can vary

 

[Pikkozoikum]

8 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I and others have already explained how both statements could be true.

 

I could repeat myself but I’d like I’m feeding the trolls!

And I answered those explanations.

[Aixin]

Are you done discussing the skillgap? The Changes to Rockets they are making are absolutely stupid lol. Its already easy enough to Dodge Them. Ist dumbs ist down even more so problably even the Most stupid Player will easiliy Dodge Them. The Main issue the Spotring stays yet again good Job WG.

[Miscommunication_dept]

54 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

And I answered those explanations.

But you didn't refute them.

[Miscommunication_dept]

To perhaps move us on..

This is an interesting video with many contributers:

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

9 hours ago, Aixin said:

Are you done discussing the skillgap? The Changes to Rockets they are making are absolutely stupid lol. Its already easy enough to Dodge Them. Ist dumbs ist down even more so problably even the Most stupid Player will easiliy Dodge Them. The Main issue the Spotring stays yet again good Job WG.

Though I actually like the change, it looks cool and well, DDs are complaining enough, maybe this makes it better

[Nov_A]

Soooo, Ise with her TB squad is coming in June for everybody, what is the general consensus on matching two of them with a T6 CV and sniping the enemy one for phun?

[Pikkozoikum]

10 hours ago, gopher31 said:

To perhaps move us on..

This is an interesting video with many contributers:

 

 

It's funny how different the opinions to CV/AA interaction are. From manual AA to stronger automated AA (cont. dps) ^^

 

I personally would prefer the manual AA combined with automated AA

Long range manual AA and short/mid range automated cont. dps.

 

It would be fun to shoot planes manually, but the funny thing his, it might make CVs even stronger. Because there will be many players, who won't be able to use the manual AA properly, and those who will use it, it might have not the wished effect of "I shoot all planes easily down"

I think the manual AA; if WG would implement it, it would be weaker than autmated AA. My prediction

[Blogaugis]

I have a question folks - is there a carrier in game, which does not say that 'Close quarters expert' (a 4 point captain skill, improving secondary battery) is ineffective, in orange letters?

Because, all carriers that I've seen, are "ineffective"... They are Lexington (T8, US), Ryujo (T6 IJN), And T4 British and german carriers...