General CV related discussions.

[Nibenay78]

19 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Also the 'continuous AA' bubble gets stronger when Def AA is active. 

50% more of a small number is still a small number 

I know my math!

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

50% more of a small number is still a small number 

I know my math!

Yes. And "1 fire less" is one fire less. I play CV, so I should know what such a thing can wreck.

But I never ever take anti-AA stuff. Here's why:

- 50% (or so) games do not even have a CV in them... 

- will you be attacked? Conceal, adapt strategy, whatever.

- if yes, then he WILL get some ammo dropped on you. Avoid, swerve. 

- What is better, prevent 10% of that ammo from hitting, or negate 50% of the damage. 

... also, those skills will WORK, and AA will only work until it is destroyed. 

[Pikkozoikum]

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

50% more of a small number is still a small number 

I know my math!

Could you do the math for cont. Dmg of an AA damage cruiser with and without Def AA? Then calculate the time it needs to destroy a squadron? :3

[Nibenay78]

10 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Could you do the math for cont. Dmg of an AA damage with and without Def AA? Then calculate the time it needs to destroy a squadron? :3

1÷1.5 = 0.6667.

All things being equal, the squadron will have a lifetime if 66% of original.

[Pikkozoikum]

5 hours ago, arkashiks said:

@Pikkozoikum haven't saved replay. Question wasn't about that particular match, but in general - even if you give up on some other aspects and fully spec into AA defense - there is literally nothing you can do against FDR as he will still be able to kill you.

The thing is:
You took 50k only by artillery. So it was not the CV alone, who killed you

You lost a lot AA mounts -> Was that the enemy Thunderer?
Did the Thunderer caused fires?

 

And when you can't do anything against FDR, fine. That means you can do somethign against other ships? Then why not avoiding the 50k Artillery dmg + fires? Then the CV must do 50k+ more ;)

 

The best play against a CV is, if he focus you, then move around an AA heavy ship. The CV will have to pass the ship or move around and if there are multiple ships, he might will stop attack you.

Against an FDR, it doesn't have to be an AA heavy ship, even ship with some Flak can help already, since the FDR gets more often hit by Flak than other ships.

 

Actually I very rarely notice, that a CV goes all the time for me and even kills me. If that happens, then I'm in a wrong position, where the enemy team focus me down and then it doesn't matter, if that is with an CV of instead of the CV any other ship. I would be dead anyways ^^

[BLUB__BLUB]

15 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Could you do the math for cont. Dmg of an AA damage cruiser with and without Def AA? Then calculate the time it needs to destroy a squadron? :3

That time will always be "long after it dropped the stuff on your butt". 

AKA very very useless. You cannot deny the first strike. You MAY BE able to deny the second strike. 

 

But the WHOLE problem is, it is not even up to YOU to deny that second strike. 

It is between an automated RNG mechanic and the skill of the CV player. 

 

It is like chasing hookers in a darkroom:

if you have the money, you will get done, but you will never know how/who.

And the aftermath, well, will probably need some "mitigation". 

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

9 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That time will always be "long after it dropped the stuff on your butt". 

AKA very very useless. You cannot deny the first strike. You MAY BE able to deny the second strike. 

Eh, that's the thing. You deny a second striked. You deny perma floods and fires and additional dmg?
If it doesn't matter, you can deactivate your AA and take all the strikes ;)

 

9 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

But the WHOLE problem is, it is not even up to YOU to deny that second strike. 

It is between an automated RNG mechanic and the skill of the CV player. 

First of all, this game is about RNG. Otherwise you would have a shooter like Counter strike, where you can exactly know, where you shells land....

 

Then, it's not all RNG or the skill of the CV player

 

The first strike the surface ship player

- Should look at the squadron and maneuver around, that the first strike will be harder and might miss completly

-The first strike can miss by RNG dispersion (Just like any armament has RNG) or by maneuvering out of the drop

 

The Following strikes can be denied mostly by heavy cont. DPS

 

The Flak is just an additional mechanic, which can also hit, and it does it, people seem not to notice it often, because it hits only a single plane for ~1k

 

The skill in this game is mostly knowledge. Knowledge about the map, about macro plays, about mechanics, about making the right decisions. If someone has not the knowledge how to maneuver, how to position, than he has not the "skill". Thus it needs actually "skill" against CVs.

Just compare the difference in a DD, who sails straight towards a cap without turning and someone who actually tries to fight the CV.

 

 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

12 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Eh, that's the thing. You deny a second striked. You deny perma floods and fires and additional dmg?
If it doesn't matter, you can deactivate your AA and take all the strikes ;)

THAT is true. However, the question is - WILL IT deny the second strike?

And/or would the second strike be succesfull or not anyway?

What does it add? 

 

Quote

First of all, this game is about RNG. Otherwise you would have a shooter like Counter strike, where you can exactly know, where you shells land....

Yes this game has A LOT of RNG. So much that it is not allowed in E-sports. 
But that RNG is quite one-sided regarding CVs. 

 

Quote

Then, it's not all RNG or the skill of the CV player

Largely, AA is up to the CV player, really. 

Flak avoidance is almost 100% up to the Cv player (maybe not 100%, in case of FDR... even then it is a choice). 

How long you spend in the "continuous AA bubble" is up to the CV player, too. 

 

Quote

The first strike the surface ship player

- Should look at the squadron and maneuver around, that the first strike will be harder and might miss completly

-The first strike can miss by RNG dispersion (Just like any armament has RNG) or by maneuvering out of the drop

Yes there are tactics. Often defende by "but if I turn to avoid the torps, then that dead-eye BB will get me". 
Well duh. If I turn my fat BB to avoid (unseen!!) DD torps, then I also might give broadside to that (also unseen!!) dead-eye BB.

But nobody complains about Dds spotting you, and torping you.... 

 

Quote

The Following strikes can be denied mostly by heavy cont. DPS

If you have Def AA, it will be defunct for the second strike... (doesn't last that long). 
Also... the CV player can SEE when you have it running. He can just wait until it is on cooldown.

 

Quote

The Flak is just an additional mechanic, which can also hit, and it does it, people seem not to notice it often, because it hits only a single plane for ~1k

Eh. I had one cloud hit 2 planes and they both died. 
But... it was MY mistake, not surface ship skill. 

 

Quote

The skill in this game is mostly knowledge. Knowledge about the map, about macro plays, about mechanics, about making the right decisions. If someone has not the knowledge how to maneuver, how to position, than he has not the "skill". Thus it needs actually "skill" against CVs.

That is correct. But there is NO skill that can protect much. 
At least not as much as a skill can protect against other opponents.

 

Quote

Just compare the difference in a DD, who sails straight towards a cap without turning and someone who actually tries to fight the CV.

Well I dunno. That DD can actually be countered. He can actually do something to protect himself, as well. 
By hiding behind an island, or starting to swerve, he'll avoid getting hit at least 90%. Or by playing wiser he'll avoid being detected altogether.

But nobody can hide from a CV... however low-skilled that CV is. You cannot hide, and you cannot be skilled enough to avoid as much as 90%.

 

[Pikkozoikum]

35 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

THAT is true. However, the question is - WILL IT deny the second strike?

And/or would the second strike be succesfull or not anyway?

What does it add? 

I see it like that: Every shot down plane, is a plane, that won't drop the bomb load.

A worst case Scenario would be something like: Having a ship with super weak AA and then taking all hits.

If you got 12 torpedo bombers, then drop 4 torpedos, second strike: 4 torpedos and then a 3rd strike: 4 torpedos.

Do you want the Carrier to drop 12 torpedos? Or do you want to drop him 4?

Even if you only destroy 6 planes, then he only drops 4 and 2. It's still better...

 

I see that in comparison to angling and not angling. When I don't angle, I take more and heavier hits. When I angle I take less hits. But I still take hits (once a Kremlin shot my Shikishima bow in. 3 salvos, every salvo 10k)

 

39 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes this game has A LOT of RNG. So much that it is not allowed in E-sports. 
But that RNG is quite one-sided regarding CVs. 

So remove Flak, then it's less RNG? :P

I would rather see that as a bonus mechanic. Surface to surface combat just don't have that additional mechanic.

It feels like, that some people see the flak as major defense, though it's only an additional bonus mechanic imo

 

AA has 3 parts: Burst-dmg, cont. DPS and Flak. All combined is better, than just looking at Flak, or looking only at the Burst-dmg.

 

42 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Largely, AA is up to the CV player, really. 

Most AA is not dodgeable. As I said, it's Burst-damage, cont. DPS and Flak

 

43 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Flak avoidance is almost 100% up to the Cv player (maybe not 100%, in case of FDR... even then it is a choice). 

How long you spend in the "continuous AA bubble" is up to the CV player, too. 

100%? I though super unicum eating flak. It feels like it's generally something between 50-70%. It depends on the ship, but you should also know, if you combine your Flak with others, you won't see the flak hits of other players... Also you need to pay attention closely, sometimes you do only ~1k flak hits, those are probably often not noticed.

 

Good players dodge them way more often, obvioulsy, but as I said, it's an additional mechanic, there is also cont. DPS and burst. If you increase the Flak hit chance, CV would be probably unplayable ^^

That's what they did in the Beta-Phase, bad players hat issues with dodging the flak, but good players not, thus they increased the DPS and lowered the flak.

 

46 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes there are tactics. Often defende by "but if I turn to avoid the torps, then that dead-eye BB will get me". 
Well duh. If I turn my fat BB to avoid (unseen!!) DD torps, then I also might give broadside to that (also unseen!!) dead-eye BB.

But nobody complains about Dds spotting you, and torping you.... 

Dead-Eye is soon gone anways, and if a CV+enemy team is focusing someone, then the position might be bad. Or just take the CV hits, sometimes it's not that bad.

Well, yes, that's actually, what I don't understand. When I play BB, the CV is way less an issue than a well played DD. I don't see a DD, but I see the CV squadrons. Also a DD is mostly permanent on my side, spots me permantently. A CV often spots only periodically (unless he isn ot full focus mode with fighters on me, what mostly never happens)

 

49 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

If you have Def AA, it will be defunct for the second strike... (doesn't last that long). 
Also... the CV player can SEE when you have it running. He can just wait until it is on cooldown.

When I use Def AA, the CV is in many cases so scared, that he never comes back until I'm the last one, the match is won/lost

My ship with Def AA is Yoshino, and that AA is pretty strong

 

Here, he tryed it two times:

Spoiler

 

More funny was it, when someone in the opposite team recognized me and told the enemy CV to go for me to show me the power of a CV. What happend : He lost his full squadron and after that, the CV prefered to go for a Halland instead xD

 

Here the screenshot to that scene:

Spoiler

I laughed about that :D

It was like, "Hey CV, please show him, how bad it is to play against CV, focus him" boom :D

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Eh. I had one cloud hit 2 planes and they both died. 
But... it was MY mistake, not surface ship skill. 

Well, what was the direction of that ship? Because if DefAA is on and moving away and turning away is the skill part, that makes the CV moving longer in long range, that's how I mostly get my big flak hits, because the CV has to be so long in the Long range, that at some point he takes one

Just look at the previous screenshot, I move away, and his fighters as to be longer in the long range

 

But yes, you can aimed the flak, but you also can't aim secondaries and nobody is complaining about that? Just because there is something automated, doesn't mean its bad

Otherwise: I'm totally for manual AA, but I can tell you, in some cases it might be better, but in many cases people will be too bad for that and take even more damage.

 

The good thing would be, that CVs could say "git gud and learn how to use your Flak"

I think the automated Flak is technically better, because there would be too many bad players, who might not use it. or use it wrong. I generally would prefer manual AA, because it's fun to use it (Steel Ocean had manual AA; it was fun)

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That is correct. But there is NO skill that can protect much. 
At least not as much as a skill can protect against other opponents.

No skill protects much. Just look a torpedo protection, just beacuse someone takes that skill, doesn't mean, he gets immune to torpedos all of the sudden. Idk, but isn't that the case of all skills, that they only increase only a few %?

It sounds like, a few % on more damage is fine, a few % damage reduction to torpedos is fine, but when I skill AA, I want 1000% more damage on AA! (intentionally exaggerating)

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well I dunno. That DD can actually be countered. He can actually do something to protect himself, as well. 
By hiding behind an island, or starting to swerve, he'll avoid getting hit at least 90%. Or by playing wiser he'll avoid being detected altogether.

But nobody can hide from a CV... however low-skilled that CV is. You cannot hide, and you cannot be skilled enough to avoid as much as 90%

1. I was talking about the skill difference against CVs. A bad DD against a CV and a good DD vs a CV. Is there no difference in outcome, if a skilled player or unskilled player sits inside the DD against CV? That should clearly show, if skill has impact.

2. Sure, you can hide, but kinda the same argue, what people often use. "I rather prefer to get dev striked by a RTS-CV, so it's over, than living 5 minutes or more and dying slowly" The same here, If the DD force you to hide, until he comes around the island and sinks you then. Would be same arguement, even though I don't share that opinion ^^

But you can't run away form a DD, especially not as BB. You depend on your team.

 

A DD can also perma-spot in many situations (it's not rare). That's okay, but if a CV spots, it's not okay ^^

Even though the DD spot can have way more impact, if the CV is not perma spotting ,then you could use the time-gap to turn an run away. That's what I often do. But a sperma spotting DD, well, no chance to escape ^^

 

 

 

[dajspokoj1]

Hi,

 

Did FDR get nerf? every time i am droping bombs/torpedos i am loosing hp. WTF is going on? 

[BLUB__BLUB]

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I see it like that: Every shot down plane, is a plane, that won't drop the bomb load.

A worst case Scenario would be something like: Having a ship with super weak AA and then taking all hits.

If you got 12 torpedo bombers, then drop 4 torpedos, second strike: 4 torpedos and then a 3rd strike: 4 torpedos.

Do you want the Carrier to drop 12 torpedos? Or do you want to drop him 4?

Even if you only destroy 6 planes, then he only drops 4 and 2. It's still better...

That's where you are wrong though. It will only help if you shoot down enough planes. 

Planes that get blapped by FLAK or burst get replaced instantly ("from above").

AA-continuous bubble does only do damage to the last plane. 

Example (FDR): he starts with 14 planes, loses 7 to FLAK, loses 2 more due tot burst,  5 fly in, he loses 3 to bubble.

Result: you still get 8 torps up your behind.

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I see that in comparison to angling and not angling. When I don't angle, I take more and heavier hits. When I angle I take less hits. But I still take hits (once a Kremlin shot my Shikishima bow in. 3 salvos, every salvo 10k)

Well, you can see if however you like, but there is NO angling against CV.

You may be able to out-manouever him but that's all. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

So remove Flak, then it's less RNG? :P

I would rather see that as a bonus mechanic. Surface to surface combat just don't have that additional mechanic.

It feels like, that some people see the flak as major defense, though it's only an additional bonus mechanic imo

FLAK is the skill gap. If you can avoid it, 75% of plane kills avoided. 

If you cannot, well. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

AA has 3 parts: Burst-dmg, cont. DPS and Flak. All combined is better, than just looking at Flak, or looking only at the Burst-dmg.

I know that. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Most AA is not dodgeable. As I said, it's Burst-damage, cont. DPS and Flak

FLAK is by far the largets damage-dealer (if you hit it). 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

100%? I though super unicum eating flak. It feels like it's generally something between 50-70%. It depends on the ship, but you should also know, if you combine your Flak with others, you won't see the flak hits of other players... Also you need to pay attention closely, sometimes you do only ~1k flak hits, those are probably often not noticed.

I can avoid at least 70% except in FDR (large squads, and slow).

It means in at least 70% of attack runs I will not lose planes to FLAK. 

Super-unicums must be better than me (I hope).

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Good players dodge them way more often, obvioulsy, but as I said, it's an additional mechanic, there is also cont. DPS and burst. If you increase the Flak hit chance, CV would be probably unplayable ^^

That's what they did in the Beta-Phase, bad players hat issues with dodging the flak, but good players not, thus they increased the DPS and lowered the flak.

Here's a thing - I also can avoid DPS... just dump th etorps before you get into the DPS... problem fixed.

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Dead-Eye is soon gone anways, and if a CV+enemy team is focusing someone, then the position might be bad. Or just take the CV hits, sometimes it's not that bad.

Well, yes, that's actually, what I don't understand. When I play BB, the CV is way less an issue than a well played DD. I don't see a DD, but I see the CV squadrons. Also a DD is mostly permanent on my side, spots me permantently. A CV often spots only periodically (unless he isn ot full focus mode with fighters on me, what mostly never happens)

Dead-eye will probably be replaced by something "better"... or they invent something equally derp.

And yes if you play a BB (or anything that is played "at distance", like Yoshino) the CV needs time to get to you.
He'll not like to do it, because he can farm closer targets. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

When I use Def AA, the CV is in many cases so scared, that he never comes back until I'm the last one, the match is won/lost

My ship with Def AA is Yoshino, and that AA is pretty strong

 

Here, he tryed it two times:

  Reveal hidden contents

Going for a Yoshino in a German Cv is kinda... well... let's say you need to be actually good. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

More funny was it, when someone in the opposite team recognized me and told the enemy CV to go for me to show me the power of a CV. What happend : He lost his full squadron and after that, the CV prefered to go for a Halland instead xD

 

Here the screenshot to that scene:

  Reveal hidden contents

I laughed about that :D

It was like, "Hey CV, please show him, how bad it is to play against CV, focus him" boom :D

Well... I cannot see what he brought there. But anything other than rocket planes would have been a mistake. 
 And if he came from that direction with rocket planes... ehh... nope. He definitely FFd that one up.

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well, what was the direction of that ship? Because if DefAA is on and moving away and turning away is the skill part, that makes the CV moving longer in long range, that's how I mostly get my big flak hits, because the CV has to be so long in the Long range, that at some point he takes one

Just look at the previous screenshot, I move away, and his fighters as to be longer in the long range

That is indeed the way to do it and get the best effect. But "sooner or later", you realize this is a matter of RNG vs CV-skill?

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But yes, you can aimed the flak, but you also can't aim secondaries and nobody is complaining about that? Just because there is something automated, doesn't mean its bad

Otherwise: I'm totally for manual AA, but I can tell you, in some cases it might be better, but in many cases people will be too bad for that and take even more damage.

There is MANY people complaining about not aiming secondaries (mostly Mikasa-owners). 
And you are right, in many cases it will be worse. But at least SOME manual AA would be more satisfactory. 

As in the RTS days, when a plane shot down left a gap to try and squeeze through. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The good thing would be, that CVs could say "git gud and learn how to use your Flak"

I think the automated Flak is technically better, because there would be too many bad players, who might not use it. or use it wrong. I generally would prefer manual AA, because it's fun to use it (Steel Ocean had manual AA; it was fun)

True. WeeGee found the same. In the first iteration the whole AA was mostly FLAK. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

No skill protects much. Just look a torpedo protection, just beacuse someone takes that skill, doesn't mean, he gets immune to torpedos all of the sudden. Idk, but isn't that the case of all skills, that they only increase only a few %?

It sounds like, a few % on more damage is fine, a few % damage reduction to torpedos is fine, but when I skill AA, I want 1000% more damage on AA! (intentionally exaggerating)

That is indeed the problem. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

1. I was talking about the skill difference against CVs. A bad DD against a CV and a good DD vs a CV. Is there no difference in outcome, if a skilled player or unskilled player sits inside the DD against CV? That should clearly show, if skill has impact.

There is no difference. A high-skilled DD vs somebody savvy like me in a CV = DD dies.

If he is bad, he just dies faster. A really good and really really lucky one, he might survive. Maybe.

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

2. Sure, you can hide, but kinda the same argue, what people often use. "I rather prefer to get dev striked by a RTS-CV, so it's over, than living 5 minutes or more and dying slowly" The same here, If the DD force you to hide, until he comes around the island and sinks you then. Would be same arguement, even though I don't share that opinion ^^

But you can't run away form a DD, especially not as BB. You depend on your team.

Well you can't run away form a DD as a Cv, either. But that's beside the point. Even in Colorado, if that DD attacks me, and I spot him - I can totally destroy him.

Which I often do. I push him in the direction where his torps came from. And yes I'll probably eat some torps. But often enough I corner him and then I blap him. 
You cannot destroy a CV whatever ship you have, just his planes. The CV itself is at the other end of the map. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

A DD can also perma-spot in many situations (it's not rare). That's okay, but if a CV spots, it's not okay ^^

Even though the DD spot can have way more impact, if the CV is not perma spotting ,then you could use the time-gap to turn an run away. That's what I often do. But a sperma spotting DD, well, no chance to escape ^^

That is true though. people forget that a DD can spot you too without any risk. He can even shoot torps at you without any risk. 

I disagree on the running from a CV though - he'll be back soon, and your ship is not THAT fast. You will not go far. 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That's where you are wrong though. It will only help if you shoot down enough planes. 

Planes that get blapped by FLAK or burst get replaced instantly ("from above").

AA-continuous bubble does only do damage to the last plane. 

Example (FDR): he starts with 14 planes, loses 7 to FLAK, loses 2 more due tot burst,  5 fly in, he loses 3 to bubble.

Result: you still get 8 torps up your behind.

So I'm not wrong? You just proofed it :D

He starts with 14, but he doesn't strike with 14 ?

 

The Result is, you take 8 torps, not 16 or even more... No perma flood etc ;)

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well, you can see if however you like, but there is NO angling against CV.

You may be able to out-manouever him but that's all. 

But Maneuvering is Angling? You maneuver to archieve a different angle:

This is very common and Bombs tend to drop at the borders quite often.

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

FLAK is by far the largets damage-dealer (if you hit it). 

Um, yes, it has the highest alpha potential. But in what terms "largest damage-dealer"? I would say the cont. dps make the most damage.

I mean, in that case the DD would be also the largest damage-dealer, but the thing is, he rarely hits all his torpedos ;)

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I can avoid at least 70% except in FDR (large squads, and slow).

It means in at least 70% of attack runs I will not lose planes to FLAK. 

Super-unicums must be better than me (I hope).

A flak doesn't need to kill a plane. If all planes are low hp, the cont. dps will kill the rest.

I can only speak of my experience and even I take sometimes a bit too much flak ^^

I also saw superunicums taking flak

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Here's a thing - I also can avoid DPS... just dump th etorps before you get into the DPS... problem fixed.

So it's even easier to dodge the torps? :D

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Dead-eye will probably be replaced by something "better"... or they invent something equally derp.

And yes if you play a BB (or anything that is played "at distance", like Yoshino) the CV needs time to get to you.
He'll not like to do it, because he can farm closer targets. 

Currently they want to give them a speed increase, while not spotted, a 10% or something

 

That really depends, even as a BB or Yoshino, I'm somtimes close, but I don't go close, when the enemy is there with 2 bbs, a cruiser, a DD. Because if then a CV also comes and spots me, then they all go for me. That wouldn't be a smart positioning, even without CV ^^

 

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well... I cannot see what he brought there. But anything other than rocket planes would have been a mistake. 
 And if he came from that direction with rocket planes... ehh... nope. He definitely FFd that one up.

Well... I was full broadsidie, but turned away, while he engages me? Yoshino with rudder modules... ;)

 

He Fed that up, because I baited him with showing my broadside, but then turn away with a full AA build and Def AA.

It's about making mistakes and not making mistakes. That how you win over an enemy.

 

And stuff like that happens often. People here complain all the time about "AA does nothing", I see that clearly different.

 

But if you want, we could go to a training room :3

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Going for a Yoshino in a German Cv is kinda... well... let's say you need to be actually good. 

I in a Yoshino or the german CV? Though it doesn't matter, I shred planes, so AA did something. And he is clearing a good player with a 68% total WR and 17k battles, nobody can deny that.

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

There is MANY people complaining about not aiming secondaries (mostly Mikasa-owners). 
And you are right, in many cases it will be worse. But at least SOME manual AA would be more satisfactory. 

As in the RTS days, when a plane shot down left a gap to try and squeeze through. 

It is definetly satisfaction to use Flak / secondaries manually, I know that from Steel Ocean, it was huge fun. Same with Deck guns on Submarines, but WG knows it better... xD

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

There is no difference. A high-skilled DD vs somebody savvy like me in a CV = DD dies.

If he is bad, he just dies faster. A really good and really really lucky one, he might survive. Maybe.

Weird, I rarely die to a CV... I have rarely

 

messed it up to die to a CV, espeically if it's only the CV.

 

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well you can't run away form a DD as a Cv, either. But that's beside the point. Even in Colorado, if that DD attacks me, and I spot him - I can totally destroy him.

Why would a DD use guns against you and not just torp you in that colorado? :D

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Which I often do. I push him in the direction where his torps came from. And yes I'll probably eat some torps. But often enough I corner him and then I blap him. 
You cannot destroy a CV whatever ship you have, just his planes. The CV itself is at the other end of the map. 

If a DD gets spotted by a BB, then it's a very bad DD player... That means, we expect that he does a mistake.

So we should apply that expectation also on CVs, that they do mistakes, thus AA works, when they do also mistake. And thus CV die also, when they do mistakes.

I lately killed a CV, who moved behind an island, but I sneaked through the mid

 

The fun fact:
I was inside a cap, torped the CV and a BB in a double strike :D

(Asashio)

 

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That is true though. people forget that a DD can spot you too without any risk. He can even shoot torps at you without any risk. 

I disagree on the running from a CV though - he'll be back soon, and your ship is not THAT fast. You will not go far.  

You missunderstand me: If a DD spots you, then you are perma spotted and locked in your position.
When a CV spots you, there might be unspotted time-gaps, where you can turn out of your posittion, without showing broadside, and run away.

In that case, it doesn't matter, if the CV is faster and comes back. A single CV chasing a running away ship is quite pointless to attack. He will take the half match to sink those ships, unless it's not a unfair condition from the beginning (I'm not talking about a Fubuik vs Enterprise)

 

If you want, we can test it, how long it takes to kill my Shikishima and my Yoshino :3

 

 

[geschlittert]

 enjoy

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

So I'm not wrong? You just proofed it :D

He starts with 14, but he doesn't strike with 14 ?

 

The Result is, you take 8 torps, not 16 or even more... No perma flood etc ;)

That is not the point though. He can only strike with two. You just avoid the second strike. 

And he will just come back with the next lot (if he lost his torpies, now come the bombers) to hit you.

If it is a fast CV, or close enough, he will get that perma on you. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But Maneuvering is Angling? You maneuver to archieve a different angle:

This is very common and Bombs tend to drop at the borders quite often.

True - so that is what you mean. But torps do not care that much really. And of course, if you go for targets at speed...

Then you need to go for them when an island prevents them from steering, or when they are occupied with something else. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Um, yes, it has the highest alpha potential. But in what terms "largest damage-dealer"? I would say the cont. dps make the most damage.

I mean, in that case the DD would be also the largest damage-dealer, but the thing is, he rarely hits all his torpedos ;)

DPS in case of FDR is negligible. If you hit FLAK it causes almost insta-death. 

Which is why the ability to hit or miss FLAK is the skill gap. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

A flak doesn't need to kill a plane. If all planes are low hp, the cont. dps will kill the rest.

I can only speak of my experience and even I take sometimes a bit too much flak ^^

I also saw superunicums taking flak

If they are low HP yes DPS will kill the rest. But AFTER you took flak. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

So it's even easier to dodge the torps? :D

In some ships... not in others. Gotta know what to drop when. Usually I can find one that has parked up. 

Wouldn't try to drop torps on a Frenchie, unless I know he just USED his speedboost. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Currently they want to give them a speed increase, while not spotted, a 10% or something

 

That really depends, even as a BB or Yoshino, I'm somtimes close, but I don't go close, when the enemy is there with 2 bbs, a cruiser, a DD. Because if then a CV also comes and spots me, then they all go for me. That wouldn't be a smart positioning, even without CV ^^

Smart play keeps the BLAP away. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well... I was full broadsidie, but turned away, while he engages me? Yoshino with rudder modules... ;)

 

He Fed that up, because I baited him with showing my broadside, but then turn away with a full AA build and Def AA.

It's about making mistakes and not making mistakes. That how you win over an enemy.

 

And stuff like that happens often. People here complain all the time about "AA does nothing", I see that clearly different.

 

But if you want, we could go to a training room :3

I think we both agree he FFed it up here. Good job. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I in a Yoshino or the german CV? Though it doesn't matter, I shred planes, so AA did something. And he is clearing a good player with a 68% total WR and 17k battles, nobody can deny that.

Even good players FF it up sometimes, as stated above. Most Yoshinos do not run that kind of build anyway. 

What it shows as well: the rudder speed is as much important as the AA. Even without the AA he would not have managed to hit you broadside. 

I know it is really hard to hit a full speed cruiser anyway. Especially if he notices. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

It is definetly satisfaction to use Flak / secondaries manually, I know that from Steel Ocean, it was huge fun. Same with Deck guns on Submarines, but WG knows it better... xD

WeeGee doesn't know.. .well... crap. Really. I doubt if they actually play the game. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Weird, I rarely die to a CV... I have rarely

 

messed it up to die to a CV, espeically if it's only the CV.

Neither do I. I know how they work and what they want, just do not be the easiest target. 

Even a CV cannot wreck the whole field at once. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Why would a DD use guns against you and not just torp you in that colorado? :D

They do. But the thing is, Colorado can also steer... 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

If a DD gets spotted by a BB, then it's a very bad DD player... That means, we expect that he does a mistake.

So we should apply that expectation also on CVs, that they do mistakes, thus AA works, when they do also mistake. And thus CV die also, when they do mistakes.

I lately killed a CV, who moved behind an island, but I sneaked through the mid

True. However it is easier to wreck a DD in a fat BB, than it is to wreck a CV when playing a DD. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The fun fact:
I was inside a cap, torped the CV and a BB in a double strike :D

(Asashio)

Yeah Asashio has great torps for the fatties. 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You missunderstand me: If a DD spots you, then you are perma spotted and locked in your position.
When a CV spots you, there might be unspotted time-gaps, where you can turn out of your posittion, without showing broadside, and run away.

In that case, it doesn't matter, if the CV is faster and comes back. A single CV chasing a running away ship is quite pointless to attack. He will take the half match to sink those ships, unless it's not a unfair condition from the beginning (I'm not talking about a Fubuik vs Enterprise)

It is true that when the CV is out of planes, then you have a chance to escape. Maybe in a DD you might even make it. 

I had some, while I was away they ran from the smokescreen, and I was above that waiting for him to come out... LOL. 

However usually they do not escape. As the situation is unfair anyway - it doesn't have to be Fubuki vs Enty. 
Jaguar vs Ark Royal, or Mahan vs Furious - or something. Shima vs any CV? 

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

If you want, we can test it, how long it takes to kill my Shikishima and my Yoshino :3

We will meet in game someday, no problem. I'll try to spank you then.  

I know how long it takes to kill a Shiki or a Yoshino. Depends mainly on how hard you can hit them and other circumstances. 
A BB can kill them much faster than the CV can do it. ~15-20K max if you hit the whole lot, and then some RNG-fire/flooding, maybe.

[CptBarney]

Bin thread still hasn't reached 500 pages before barnehs year anniversary.

 

sniff.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, CptBarney said:

Bin thread still hasn't reached 500 pages before barnehs year anniversary.

 

sniff.

And no Yorkie either, dammit. 

[DeviousDave02]

3 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

And no Yorkie either, dammit. 

Probably never going to get it at this point.

 

TVIII is completely saturated with Premium CV's and without B&^% gimmicks probably wouldn't fit too well as a T10 as she's a tad too old considering all current TX CV's are post war/paper designs and besides we already have Easy E covering that location (all hail Queen E)

 

Possibly could work as a Premium TVI CV for the American tree (as they don't have any TVI Premiums yet) or a "Enterprise 42" edition functioning like a TVI Kaga or similar to Ark Royal to represent the fact she is a full fleet carrier when most others at that Tier are Conversions or older smaller designs (or paper - what if - ships) that carried less aircraft.

 

Still... would be nice to have her. (stares at WarGambling)

[Robber_Baron]

Yorktown as T6? I think Wasp would be a better idea at that tier. I still hope the idea of second lines for the USN and IJN hasn't been abandoned yet, and back then Yorktown was projected as tier 8. Independence as tier 6, so if that idea is abandoned then Independence might be an option for t6.
While we're at it, can we get Dauntless dive bombers at tier 6? The only way to use them now is with the Lexington, as stock planes.

[El2aZeR]

20 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But Maneuvering is Angling?

 

As if it matters.

 

20 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

When a CV spots you, there might be unspotted time-gaps, where you can turn out of your posittion, without showing broadside, and run away.

 

"The best counterplay against CVs is to hide behind other ships, camp in the back and make yourself useless, thus allowing the enemy CV to remove you from the match without even lifting a finger and multiplying his match influence."

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

As if it matters.

Only against the likes of me (in something as slow-turning as FDR).

I will get them in others, sometimes it will make no difference at all, still 100% hit.
Works against German Cv though, must have perfect flat broadside for those damn rockets. 

But... there is no hurt in at least trying.

 

Hey and if you show up, all they can do is pray that you're having a bad day.

As in, suddenly your monitor blows up. Wouldn't surprise me if you still killed them though. 

 

Quote

"The best counterplay against CVs is to hide behind other ships, camp in the back and make yourself useless, thus allowing the enemy CV to remove you from the match without even lifting a finger and multiplying his match influence."

If you are alone, you'll still get deleted - just a bit later. Meanwhile you can do no harm. 

BTW I even see them do that when there is no CV at all. Seems to be all the fashion. 

[El2aZeR]

Skill gap is fixed btw.

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

31 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Skill gap is fixed btw.

You mean it turned into a FF-ing crater, and some fell in. 

Today we had a game, a clanmate needed 400 ribbons... 

So I take out FDR, go full-wheelchair-mode, spot, fart around, just muck about.

He got 550 ribbons + 2 kills in his Smolly, was among the last ones alive, we won, I got 80K and 3 kills... 

Full meme div with a Shima that had 20km torps, 2 kills. 

 

Hey and guess what: we're not even that good. 

[Pikkozoikum]

17 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

You mean it turned into a FF-ing crater, and some fell in. 

Funny enough, that people say, that skill gap is bigger, but at the same time, that now everyone, even bad player are able to do something with the CV.... Both can't be true ^^

The RTS had a high skill gap. Bad CV player sucked hard against good CV players. If something is hard to play -> high skill gap

[Miscommunication_dept]

6 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Funny enough, that people say, that skill gap is bigger, but at the same time, that now everyone, even bad player are able to do something with the CV.... Both can't be true ^^

The RTS had a high skill gap. Bad CV player sucked hard against good CV players. If something is hard to play -> high skill gap

They can both be true. 
 

A CV does not fight against other CVs.

It fights against surface ships.

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

They can both be true. 
 

A CV does not fight against other CVs.

It fights against surface ships.

And how you have a larger skill gap, while it's easier? xD

A skill gap means, that it is harder