General CV related discussions.

[Miscommunication_dept]

Played the Sanzang yesterday as bottom tier. 
I got the impression that a tier 8 CV in a T10 game is probably the correct level of game impact a CV should have.

 

A tier 8 Cv can still damage tier ten ships but must be much more careful and mistakes are punished far more severely.

 

Agree?

[BLUB__BLUB]

24 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Played the Sanzang yesterday as bottom tier. 
I got the impression that a tier 8 CV in a T10 game is probably the correct level of game impact a CV should have.

 

A tier 8 Cv can still damage tier ten ships but must be much more careful and mistakes are punished far more severely.

 

Agree?

Yes, it is bad enough. That is because a T8 Cv can be uptiered to T9 and T10. 

That also means they are pretty strong when having T8 MM. Or T7, or even T6... 

 

This is mostly a result from WeeGee choosing not to have uneven tier CVs. 

As in: if they DID have T9CV, then the T8 would not have to be that strong.

They'd see less T9 and T10 MM. As a result it would be less poisonous to T7 (and T6). 

Because their spots would also be taken by T7 CVs, which currently do not exist.

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

BUFF KAGA 

 

 

[Naglash666]

Hi there,

 

i am thinking about to grind either the british or the german CVs. I heard both T10 got nerfed hard but which one of these 2 lines (and T10) would you acutally recommend for random battles?

 

Greetings

[BLUB__BLUB]

16 minutes ago, Naglash666 said:

Hi there,

 

i am thinking about to grind either the british or the german CVs. I heard both T10 got nerfed hard but which one of these 2 lines (and T10) would you acutally recommend for random battles?

 

Greetings

Neither.... although in good hands the German can be excellent.

For all-round performance, nothing beats a Midway. 

 

[Sunleader]

19 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Neither.... although in good hands the German can be excellent.

For all-round performance, nothing beats a Midway. 

 

 

Its not about the Hands in which it is.

Its about Playing in a Divsion.

 

The German CVs are Damage Farmers. They can do a Great Deal of Damage which Sticks unless you Outmaneuver the Attack.

This in itself is entirely Irrelevant. Because most Cruisers and BBs can still do that Faster and more Reliably. And are Harder to Outmaneuver than Manfreds Attacks.

But when you got 2 Unicum Div Mates to Play with you. It becomes an Insanely Powerful Ability.

Because Enemy Ships by Outmaneuvering your Attack. Expose themselves to these 2 Unicum Div Mates. Which can Punish it Severely.

 

 

Thing is.

Other T10 CVs can do that Too. While at the same time being Capable of also Dealing Damage by themselves and take out Relevant Targets like DDs.

 

 

 

[Hawba]

First off, having two CVs per team should not happen. I play mostly DDs and if there are 4 CVs total in a game then DDs are next to useless. I can't scout. The sky is abuzz with planes so I either get spotted and nuked or I am useless since the planes will scout the map anyway. I can't really do any sneak attacks, because I am lit up almost constantly. Not to mention that some of those planes can scrape away a third of my health. I can try to avoid detection by predicting plane flight paths and use smoke in a pinch, but by the time I finish mission-impossbling across the map, the timer will run out. So my best bet is to hug a cruiser and try to land shots with my puny cannons. All in all, I don't think that is in line with how DDs should be played.

 

And now to spitballing possible solutions:

• CVs should have their own battle type. Call it Modern, Mixed or Aero game mode. Almost all ships in this mode would need to be slightly AA buffed, some maps would need to be removed and maybe some added to better suit having CVs in the match.
• CVs should NEVER be top tier in a match. I would even go as far as saying that they should always be bottom tier.
• CVs should have a ginormous detectability range, tiny spotting range and be essentially made from paper and dry kindling.
• Planes should be more valuable to a CV player. For example, if a squadron returns with 3 out of 5 planes, the player would either have to wait for "repairs" (some timed thing) of fly with 3 for the rest of the match. There should be careful consideration involved in which ships and with how much planes/squadrons a CV attacks with. If you bork that up, it should HURT. Right now I sometimes feel like I'm an extra in World of Airplanes.
• I think planes are too fast. The time needed from launching planes to hitting a target anywhere on the map is too short. Maybe with slower cruising speeds (and maybe a 'boost' in the attack-retreat phase) it would make for harder choices for CV players. I guess this also ties into the previous point, if it took longer to get to a target it would make it way more important that you choose your victims carefully and that you execute your attacks to maximum efficiency.
• Maybe planes should have a fairly restricted range, similar to gun ranges of BBs or even cruisers. This would result in CV actually having to move during the match, and not just sit pretty behind an island in the corner of the map eating potato crisps and molesting honest ships.
• Have CVs have fewer planes. Running out of planes should happen more often, so that CVs would be mindful of where to expend their resources.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Its not about the Hands in which it is.

Its about Playing in a Divsion.

A division does make a difference. I have a divmate when he plays Thundere and I take (any) Cv it usually ends in a win.

i also have one that plays mainly DD. In MvR when in division the WR is really really sick. 

However... Pommern, Chapayev, Venezia in div still beat that WR.  

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

The German CVs are Damage Farmers. They can do a Great Deal of Damage which Sticks unless you Outmaneuver the Attack.

IMO they are mainly " cruiser killers". They can pack the last punch easier. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

This in itself is entirely Irrelevant. Because most Cruisers and BBs can still do that Faster and more Reliably. And are Harder to Outmaneuver than Manfreds Attacks.

True. But harder to avoid than FDR attacks. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

But when you got 2 Unicum Div Mates to Play with you. It becomes an Insanely Powerful Ability.

Because Enemy Ships by Outmaneuvering your Attack. Expose themselves to these 2 Unicum Div Mates. Which can Punish it Severely.

That is my problem, I do not have such divmates. We all are potatoooo 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Thing is.

Other T10 CVs can do that Too. While at the same time being Capable of also Dealing Damage by themselves and take out Relevant Targets like DDs.

Well... seems to me like, the higher the tier, the more trouble DDs are for CVs.

At T6, almost any CV can kill a DD. At T10, not so much. 

[marcopieroni16]

i am a main cv player ( i like irl carriers. stop being toxic kids) and i gotta admit........never put a kaga with tier 6 ships.......a shoukaku is fine, cuz AP bombs will mostly overpen anycruiser and lower tier dds should be even more stelthy then highter tier ones. also, ofc with a faster plane its harder to hunt a dd.

 

but there are things i dont like. there is no realism, i know, its an arcade game. but the only way to balance a bit aicraft carrier, is to make them a bit more realistic, i am not saying to bring back the RTS (which i would like to try personally, because seeing dodfights and planes in formations. is kinda cool) but things like this :

 

-limited plane range : IJN should have longest ranger 

-unlimited planes : because most of the planes in the squadron dont attack, aka : 12 hakuryu planes only 2 per run. most of them die without really do anything (execept sucking dry your credits rip)

-please remove the attack aircraft with rockets.  they are the main reason dds get slapped right? on most carriers, they didnt even served. (divine winds would be intereeting. or a6m5 with bombs also 

-make all type of fighters last longer time. and, about the carrier ones. make them dynamic just like the RTS. patrolling a smalll area for 60-45 seconds. is not worth a cv player attetion, and will likely avoid any call for help from far away teammates

-i get that dds have a hard time. but PLEASE. you cannot keep the situation like this. a non moving dd can dodge 6 bombs by not moving at all, o cmon !!

-slower regeneration, but more planes in reserve. actual carrier have only half of their real amount of planes (not all of them. but many do have a really unconfotable amount of planes)

- add more planes and carriers : the hiryu and the akagi were both real important carriers, that did incredible things in the war. the last stand of the hiryu, and the lead of the akagi cannot be forget

-an operation only for carriers. there is already an operation where carriers cannot play. so would be awsome to have one for only carriers. like midway or pear harbor or even coral sea

-i think having 4/5 dds is much worse then having 4 cvs. for one reason : most of the time al the 4 dds of one team insta die. leaving a teaam blind, and doomed. and at least. you see the planes coming. while dds can be sneaking from the corner of the map

-MORE INTERACTION IN PLANE-CARRIER . there is too much silence 

[Miscommunication_dept]

19 minutes ago, marcopieroni16 said:

i am a main cv player ( i like irl carriers. stop being toxic kids) and i gotta admit........never put a kaga with tier 6 ships.......a shoukaku is fine, cuz AP bombs will mostly overpen anycruiser and lower tier dds should be even more stelthy then highter tier ones. also, ofc with a faster plane its harder to hunt a dd.

 

but there are things i dont like. there is no realism, i know, its an arcade game. but the only way to balance a bit aicraft carrier, is to make them a bit more realistic, i am not saying to bring back the RTS (which i would like to try personally, because seeing dodfights and planes in formations. is kinda cool) but things like this :

 

-limited plane range : IJN should have longest ranger 

-unlimited planes : because most of the planes in the squadron dont attack, aka : 12 hakuryu planes only 2 per run. most of them die without really do anything (execept sucking dry your credits rip)

-please remove the attack aircraft with rockets.  they are the main reason dds get slapped right? on most carriers, they didnt even served. (divine winds would be intereeting. or a6m5 with bombs also 

-make all type of fighters last longer time. and, about the carrier ones. make them dynamic just like the RTS. patrolling a smalll area for 60-45 seconds. is not worth a cv player attetion, and will likely avoid any call for help from far away teammates

-i get that dds have a hard time. but PLEASE. you cannot keep the situation like this. a non moving dd can dodge 6 bombs by not moving at all, o cmon !!

-slower regeneration, but more planes in reserve. actual carrier have only half of their real amount of planes (not all of them. but many do have a really unconfotable amount of planes)

- add more planes and carriers : the hiryu and the akagi were both real important carriers, that did incredible things in the war. the last stand of the hiryu, and the lead of the akagi cannot be forget

-an operation only for carriers. there is already an operation where carriers cannot play. so would be awsome to have one for only carriers. like midway or pear harbor or even coral sea

-i think having 4/5 dds is much worse then having 4 cvs. for one reason : most of the time al the 4 dds of one team insta die. leaving a teaam blind, and doomed. and at least. you see the planes coming. while dds can be sneaking from the corner of the map

-MORE INTERACTION IN PLANE-CARRIER . there is too much silence 

You clearly haven’t tried Enterprise as top tier!

 

Kill all three destroyers then farm everything else asking your team to stand back, watch and not kill steal. 
 

That ship is the most broken thing in the game.

[Sunleader]

34 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

A division does make a difference. I have a divmate when he plays Thundere and I take (any) Cv it usually ends in a win.

i also have one that plays mainly DD. In MvR when in division the WR is really really sick. 

However... Pommern, Chapayev, Venezia in div still beat that WR.  

 

IMO they are mainly " cruiser killers". They can pack the last punch easier. 

 

True. But harder to avoid than FDR attacks. 

 

That is my problem, I do not have such divmates. We all are potatoooo 

 

Well... seems to me like, the higher the tier, the more trouble DDs are for CVs.

At T6, almost any CV can kill a DD. At T10, not so much. 

 

1.

As I said. Most CVs can do that. But Manfred is Reliant on it in exchange for being a bit better at it.

And Yes. Div in General Boosts WR if done right. Some Combinations are really Unfair.

2.

Only in a very Limited Capacity to be Honest. The Rockets are easily Negated by Angling. The Bombs are too unreliable against Cruisers. And while the Torps are Great against Cruisers. Pretty much any CV can use them against Cruisers if he knows how to Drop.

3.

FDR is a Different Monster entirely. Because FDRs Selling Point is Absurdly Strong Attacks and Insanely Long Spotting due to its Planes being Insanely Hard to Kill.

4.

Well. Git Gud then :P

5.

Yes and No. Its just that there is a few Monsters in T10 which can be Pretty Scary.

But Frankly. Its just Scary not much else.

Even Halland can be Dropped Twice by a Kaga if he has DefAA on Cooldown. And he will still be Dropped once with Def AA if he doesnt Hit a Flak.

Its just that most CVs get easily Scared. Panic and either dont Attack at all. Or mess up the Attack because they make panic mistakes.

 

In Lower Tiers. This Panic Effect never happens. Cause even tough your Plane HP is actually lower by roughly the same amount that the AA is weaker.

The Visual Effects and amount of Flak is Generally much Lower.

Which means that the Average Player which cant Evade Flak will be Deleted less often and the Inexperienced Player wont be overwhelmed and thrown into Panic by the Lightshow that often.

[Hawba]

14 minutes ago, marcopieroni16 said:

-i think having 4/5 dds is much worse then having 4 cvs. for one reason : most of the time al the 4 dds of one team insta die. leaving a teaam blind, and doomed. and at least. you see the planes coming. while dds can be sneaking from the corner of the map

You just described what role DDs are supposed to fill. If DDs die, the team is blind and it's their collective "fault" for letting such a situation occur. CVs don't fix that problem, they exacerbate it by deleting DDs in the first minutes of the match with their planes.

CVs, just like artillery in WoT, was a broken concept from the get go, creating a very similar problem. It's like we're all down for a good sword fight. I bring my two stiletto knives, a couple of guys bring their bastard swords, there is a German bro grinning ear to ear holding a zweihänder and we even have a nutjob with a war hammer. Enter WG: "This is such a great game, we see you are having fun. We will now expand on the original concept by adding a sniper with a Barrett M82 on a hill you can barely see in the distance. He will also have a pocket knife." I get that being that sniper is fun. You are contributing to the demise of the enemy. But then this is no longer a sword fighting game.

 

To me it feels like that is the main problem of CVs. They technically are ships, but they are generally not played as ships, because it's all about the planes. We could remove the ship part altogether and it wouldn't impact the gameplay much. Just let people play as an airstrip. They will have 40 or so planes/squadrons and if their runway is destroyed they are out. Put that on wheels and you have a CV.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

1.

As I said. Most CVs can do that. But Manfred is Reliant on it in exchange for being a bit better at it.

And Yes. Div in General Boosts WR if done right. Some Combinations are really Unfair.

Might explain my WR in the various Tx CVs. And the rest.

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

2.

Only in a very Limited Capacity to be Honest. The Rockets are easily Negated by Angling. The Bombs are too unreliable against Cruisers. And while the Torps are Great against Cruisers. Pretty much any CV can use them against Cruisers if he knows how to Drop.

True, but I never have that kind of impact on cruisers in any other CV. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

3.

FDR is a Different Monster entirely. Because FDRs Selling Point is Absurdly Strong Attacks and Insanely Long Spotting due to its Planes being Insanely Hard to Kill.

Maybe better say FDR planes are SLOW to kill. Because they WILL BE killed. It just takes a loooooong time.

Planes from a faster CV are hard to kill. Even in Audacious I hardly lose any planes. In FDR, lots. 
That it doesn't matter, well yeah. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

4.

Well. Git Gud then :P

We try. Slowly getting there. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

5.

Yes and No. Its just that there is a few Monsters in T10 which can be Pretty Scary.

But Frankly. Its just Scary not much else.

Even Halland can be Dropped Twice by a Kaga if he has DefAA on Cooldown. And he will still be Dropped once with Def AA if he doesnt Hit a Flak.

Its just that most CVs get easily Scared. Panic and either dont Attack at all. Or mess up the Attack because they make panic mistakes.

The problem isn't their AA as such. I can pretty well kill a Friesland with Ark Royal.  

The problem is, T10s have larger squads - multiple attacks. It is when leaving those DDs (and preparing for the next attack) that most planes get lost. 

And you need to do it with FDR, else it takes too much time. On MvR, I just do one drop, and in 20 secs the next. And the next. And the next. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

In Lower Tiers. This Panic Effect never happens. Cause even tough your Plane HP is actually lower by roughly the same amount that the AA is weaker.

The Visual Effects and amount of Flak is Generally much Lower.

Which means that the Average Player which cant Evade Flak will be Deleted less often and the Inexperienced Player wont be overwhelmed and thrown into Panic by the Lightshow that often.

Hahaha yes it  is sometimes a real show. I had it happen I sort of dropped blind. 

So much crap blowing up in the sky I could not even see the ship anymore. 

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Might explain my WR in the various Tx CVs. And the rest.

 

True, but I never have that kind of impact on cruisers in any other CV. 

 

Maybe better say FDR planes are SLOW to kill. Because they WILL BE killed. It just takes a loooooong time.

Planes from a faster CV are hard to kill. Even in Audacious I hardly lose any planes. In FDR, lots. 
That it doesn't matter, well yeah. 

 

We try. Slowly getting there. 

 

The problem isn't their AA as such. I can pretty well kill a Friesland with Ark Royal.  

The problem is, T10s have larger squads - multiple attacks. It is when leaving those DDs (and preparing for the next attack) that most planes get lost. 

And you need to do it with FDR, else it takes too much time. On MvR, I just do one drop, and in 20 secs the next. And the next. And the next. 

 

Hahaha yes it  is sometimes a real show. I had it happen I sort of dropped blind. 

So much crap blowing up in the sky I could not even see the ship anymore. 

 

1.

Its no Secret Really.

Any Gun DD+Radar Cruiser Combi for Example Provides and Extreme Advantage already.

Add a CV to the Mix and any DD trying to Contest is Basicly Dead because he will instantly be set upon by a Smoked DD and a Cruiser while being Spotted by the CV. And if he Tries to Smoke will be Radared...

Which basicly Means that Cap is effectively Guaranteed to your Team and any Attempt by the Enemy Teams DDs will be Squashed extremely Quickly.

 

2.

Well. To begin with. Hunting Cruisers is my Personal Playstyle for Graf Zeppelin, Kaga and Hakuryu. Most others Generally go for DDs regardless.

 

3.

FDR Planes get Killed Rarely and Slowly. Because they Drop and Retreat which you wont do much about.

The Squads are Giant and Strong.

Audacious just doesnt have that Capacity.

 

4.

That was more of a Joke Mate. Its not that Easy ^^

Just keep Trying. And it will Improve.

 

5.

MvR is just a little bit Faster. And other CVs deal more Damage per Drop.

So the others can do that Tactic too and get almost the same result as even tough they make fewer drops. Their Drops hurt more.

FDR is an Exception. She simply has the Survivability on its Squadrons to do 2 or 3 Drops anyways.

 

6.

Just Learn to Ignore it. Once you Stop being Scared it becomes alot more Effective.

Cold and Logical Decisions. Carried out in Cold Blood and with Confidence.

 

[Puffin_]

Do you use

Commander skill Swift Fish on any CV 
Torpedo speed +5%
Torpedo aiming distance + 24m

[Miscommunication_dept]

9 minutes ago, Puffin_ said:

Do you use

Commander skill Swift Fish on any CV 
Torpedo speed +5%
Torpedo aiming distance + 24m

No, the arming difference skill is better but I use neither.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

1.

Its no Secret Really.

Any Gun DD+Radar Cruiser Combi for Example Provides and Extreme Advantage already.

Add a CV to the Mix and any DD trying to Contest is Basicly Dead because he will instantly be set upon by a Smoked DD and a Cruiser while being Spotted by the CV. And if he Tries to Smoke will be Radared...

Which basicly Means that Cap is effectively Guaranteed to your Team and any Attempt by the Enemy Teams DDs will be Squashed extremely Quickly.

Hahaha well you haven't seen us tater around then. Showing broadside, or eating torpedo in smoke. 

We manage to do it all (do it wrong... ) LOL. But we are getting better. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

2.

Well. To begin with. Hunting Cruisers is my Personal Playstyle for Graf Zeppelin, Kaga and Hakuryu. Most others Generally go for DDs regardless.

Might be that I am doing it wrong then. I am usually trying to stop caps, what ever is the danger. 

As in, if my DD is capping I will try to kill whatever is trying to kill him. And so on. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

3.

FDR Planes get Killed Rarely and Slowly. Because they Drop and Retreat which you wont do much about.

The Squads are Giant and Strong.

Audacious just doesnt have that Capacity.

Nah, but Audacious I can go quickly from one target to the other. With FDR, once you are on one side, well... 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

4.

That was more of a Joke Mate. Its not that Easy ^^

Just keep Trying. And it will Improve.

Will do. I'm also doing stuff just for lulllz though. Like torping DDs. Or blap a Smoll. Terrorise a Thunderer.

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

5.

MvR is just a little bit Faster. And other CVs deal more Damage per Drop.

So the others can do that Tactic too and get almost the same result as even tough they make fewer drops. Their Drops hurt more.

FDR is an Exception. She simply has the Survivability on its Squadrons to do 2 or 3 Drops anyways.

Yeah but you MUST do 3 drops with FDR to do any "Git Gud". 
With other CVs you can do same damage in same time, except you have more options for "distribution". 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

6.

Just Learn to Ignore it. Once you Stop being Scared it becomes alot more Effective.

Cold and Logical Decisions. Carried out in Cold Blood and with Confidence.

I am ignoring it, I know it doesn't really matter much. Sometimes though, can't even see the ship due to "too much dakka". 

I guess AA works after all, then. Black clouds black clouds black clouds black clouds... 

[El2aZeR]

7 hours ago, Puffin_ said:

Do you use

Commander skill Swift Fish on any CV 
Torpedo speed +5%
Torpedo aiming distance + 24m

 

I generally use it on CVs with slow torps in conjunction with the skill that reduces arming distance and the slot 3 torp speed upgrade. This combination essentially just gives you outright faster torps for the same arming distance.

[Miscommunication_dept]

Farming 400k in Immelmann!!!

 

(not me)

 

 Is that the highest ever CV damage?

[Capra76]

50 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

 Is that the highest ever CV damage?

 

550,000 in a Hakuyru, although that was under patch 0.8.0 so isn't really comparable.
 

Spoiler

 

 

[Bearwall]

Suggestion: A CV free gamemode so as to alleviate some of the frustration from players that will rather be torped by a dd than being bombed by a CV..

[Kyorinn]

30.04.2021 saat 00:40'de, BLUB__BLUB dedi:

Might be that I am doing it wrong then. I am usually trying to stop caps, what ever is the danger. 

As in, if my DD is capping I will try to kill whatever is trying to kill him. And so on. 

if your dd is detected and in trouble you are doing nothing wrong there. 
but when your dd is safe not detected but still you focus on that side of the map yes there is problem i mostly focus to the ships which is closest to cap,once im done with them(make them have verry low hp) i go for bb farming since i already won the game. 

[Kyorinn]

29.04.2021 saat 14:10'de, gopher31 dedi:

Played the Sanzang yesterday as bottom tier. 
I got the impression that a tier 8 CV in a T10 game is probably the correct level of game impact a CV should have.

 

A tier 8 Cv can still damage tier ten ships but must be much more careful and mistakes are punished far more severely.

 

Agree?

i dont agree since the only ships can actualy get "punished severely" are sanzang-saipan and implacable on that tier which is 3/9 of the total cv's on t8

[BLUB__BLUB]

41 minutes ago, COMRADE_2019 said:

if your dd is detected and in trouble you are doing nothing wrong there. 
but when your dd is safe not detected but still you focus on that side of the map yes there is problem i mostly focus to the ships which is closest to cap,once im done with them(make them have verry low hp) i go for bb farming since i already won the game. 

True, in normal games. However seems nowadays we get no more normal games. 

Everything is either a lemmingtrain, a ROFLSTOMP, or some campfest. 

[Bearwall]

5 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

True, in normal games. However seems nowadays we get no more normal games. 

Everything is either a lemmingtrain, a ROFLSTOMP, or some campfest. 

There's a reason for things becoming a campfest. It's not exactly rocketscience. It will become worse when subs are introduced.