General CV related discussions.

[BLUB__BLUB]

13 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

 If you make CV "balanced" with the same value as a surface ships, then it also needs the same conditions like a surface ships.

That is the thing, you cannot balance CV vs one surface ship. 

in WoWS the CV will always have the advantage, and needs to be balanced vs a team. 

Also, you'll never get the same amount of players, so 4CVs per side is not going to happen. 

[Miscommunication_dept]

CVs can dictate rules of engagement.

 

I rank to an Austin/Halland combo obliterating an entire squadron.

I simply avoid the area and work on the other flank.

If I see a low health destroyer alone, anywhere on the map I can fly over and kill him or spot him long enough for someone else to.

 

The mobility and spotting already makes CVs powerful. Unless we could somehow change that, the only way to balance them would be to make them fairly weak against surface ships. Of course, who would play a class that only helps other classes to get kills? 
Doesnt sound  very exciting to me.

 

To some extent I think FDR was a step in the right direction as the CV-DD interaction was reduced. This to me is the worst part of CV balance. Of course FDR can interact with large ships very well indeed.

 

I think the predator- prey relationship between CVs and DDs is the biggest problem. This was addressed to some extent with the reticule nerf for tier 10 CV rockets.

 

Enterprise though... I’m a super unicum in it, not because I am a good player but because 1 squad can solo kill even some tier 10 DDs and when top tier I can neutralise all three for much of the game either by killing them or making them run back to battleships. IMO this ship is the most broken in the game.
 

If we could go back in time and release CVs with no rockets, the balance would have been much better.

[kaesarsosei]

Quick question to the CV mains - will Enhanced Reactions be a viable or even optimal pick when it is buffed next patch?

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, gopher31 said:

If we could go back in time and release CVs with no rockets, the balance would have been much better.

...which is why I hope they give the choice between ASW bombs or rockets, when we get submarines.

[Miscommunication_dept]

4 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

...which is why I hope they give the choice between ASW bombs or rockets, when we get submarines.

Of course the subs will keep DDs spotted until they are dead so CVs can go after bigger juicier targets......

[Miscommunication_dept]

5 minutes ago, kaesarsosei said:

Quick question to the CV mains - will Enhanced Reactions be a viable or even optimal pick when it is buffed next patch?

I tried it and it seems it doesn’t become that much  more effective at killing planes but it will start killing them as they go for their first drop.

 

Could have some use protecting others but planes can still bail on spotting the fighters and not get killed.

 

I might use the skill for an extra fighter instead as the extra spotting is very useful.

[BLUB__BLUB]

13 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Of course the subs will keep DDs spotted until they are dead so CVs can go after bigger juicier targets......

Well if they keep a DD spotted they can also be hit. 

An ASW-equipped CV could then save a DD, would be a change. 

 

[Moshelvetet]

Could someone please link me a post that explains how CVs makes this game better. I must have missed it.

So, my question is this... What aspect of the game is improved by CVs?

[Nibenay78]

The bouncy-bouncy-thingy CV seems interesting. Yet can the bouncy-bouncy-thingies detonate on impact also? I had that impression before I sunk this n00b earlier today.

My life is fulfilled now!

 

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That is the thing, you cannot balance CV vs one surface ship. 

in WoWS the CV will always have the advantage, and needs to be balanced vs a team. 

Also, you'll never get the same amount of players, so 4CVs per side is not going to happen. 

But manual AA would balance a 1vs1, if a single ship can handle with all planes alone, that's a 1vs1 and the better player would win? ^^

 

 

Btw, that's not true, that a CV has always the advantage. He can only decide for the attack via range advantage.
Yesterday, we had a match, our CV very early destroyed. In the End it was Moskwa+CV vs Yamato+Venezia

-Yamatao and Venezia kill Moskwa in the cap, though Yamato dies.

-Venezia moves into the cap, caps it, moves to the carrier and kills the carrier

The Venzia was able to fight with Yamatao the Moskwa, then taking caps, then turning around to the carrier and kill him as well xD

Spoiler

 

Just take a look at Steel Ocean, tehre are Matches with 2 Midways on one side :D

 

 

There is the manual AA in Steel Ocean

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, gopher31 said:

The mobility and spotting already makes CVs powerful. Unless we could somehow change that, the only way to balance them would be to make them fairly weak against surface ships. Of course, who would play a class that only helps other classes to get kills? 
Doesnt sound  very exciting to me.

With the current version it would be boring, but supporting can be fun, when the game design is well made.

I made a proposal once, how you could split spotting and damage for the CV, but it's too complex for WG, even though it's actually not complex, just hard to understand the mechanics and effect on game, I assume.

 

Here is a sumary of it:

On 4/13/2021 at 1:53 AM, Pikkozoikum said:

Reconnaissance Aircraft

---

I had once a more detailed proposal for this and I still like the idea, because it adds a lot to the game. But it's hard to understand, if not fully read. The idea is not just to remove spotting from striking, but also put the Aircraft carrier more into the soft-"paper-rock-scissor" design.

• Remove Team-spotting from Strike planes
• Reduce the deck number of strike planes about ~35%
• Add reconnaissance aircrafts
  • Single planes per squadron
  • Three squadrons (thus 3 planes) on deck
  • Low HP (~1500)
  • Is able to teamspot but also has an attack-design
  • Starting the attack sets the aircraft into an observation flight

Observation flight
It's similar to an Torpedo attack or level bombing. The aircraft increases altitude and the player gets a binocular interface, where he can mark a single target. Targeting a ship in this mode annouces that target to all teammates, The anoucement is visual and sound-wise. Shooting on this target also gets a dispersion-buff (~10-20%), so the team mates can fire more accurate on it.

With this design, the Aircraft has less strike power. If he strikes, he won't spot. When he spots, he won't strike. Thus a surface ship can focus on the CV more easily.
Also the DDs and CLs are hard-counters to reconnaissance aircrafts, because they have so low HP and those ships are very good concealed.
This design would solve so many problem
The spotting is a very team-orientated design, but would also reward the CV player a lot. When observing, the damage done to this target should be additionaly added to the CV damage counter, thus he does also "damage" and not only team spotting.

 

Summary
-DD and CL are counter ships to reconnaissance aircrafts
-More complex and fun spotting mechanic
-Less strike damage from the CV, while CV keeps high damage duo spotter
-Surface ships can focus on CV attacks, since they can't spot for team

 

What should it achieve?

More complex gameplay for CV, more decision making. More counterplay and also not "doing all at once" gameplay (striking and spotting). More fun with spotting.
 

 

 

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

22 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

The bouncy-bouncy-thingy CV seems interesting. Yet can the bouncy-bouncy-thingies detonate on impact also? I had that impression before I sunk this n00b earlier today.

My life is fulfilled now!

 

 

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What you mean with on impact? They are HE-Bombs, those always detonate on impact ^^

[Molly_Delaney]

1 hour ago, Nibenay78 said:

The bouncy-bouncy-thingy CV seems interesting. Yet can the bouncy-bouncy-thingies detonate on impact also?

<snip>

 

Sorry, but my mind went someone totally off-topic when reading that...

Presumably skip bombs not boing-boings as anime girls are fond of calling them....

[Capra76]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:23 PM, Moshelvetet said:

Could someone please link me a post that explains how CVs makes this game better. I must have missed it.

So, my question is this... What aspect of the game is improved by CVs?

 

Arguably they help the kind of sub-par BB players that seems to be WG's target audience, is designing a game to appeal to that level of dross a good idea, probably not.

[CptMinia]

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

The bouncy-bouncy-thingy CV seems interesting. Yet can the bouncy-bouncy-thingies detonate on impact also? I had that impression before I sunk this n00b earlier today.

My life is fulfilled now!

 

 

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You have sunk not only my fellow moderator but my fellow clanmate! Congratulations, finally he got what was coming to him! I shall cover you in gold, jewels and the finest silk!

 

[159Hunter]

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

The bouncy-bouncy-thingy CV seems interesting. Yet can the bouncy-bouncy-thingies detonate on impact also? I had that impression before I sunk this n00b earlier today.

My life is fulfilled now!

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

@Excavatus what happened here man?

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

 Would need some help regarding a Haku Cpt. build - I went back to January and only found the "the daily bounce" link. In case I over-read something - just let me know which page number I have to go back to. Anyway - I was recommended by one of our main CV players who was a Haku main before the Cpt. rework the build below (in his defence he has not touched Haku since the rework and only played here and there his FDR before he went into a "wows" break - so he said himself that he had "no proper testing with the new skills" since pre-rework). Thanks for your time and help.  

[El2aZeR]

23 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Would need some help regarding a Haku Cpt. build

 

This is a pretty standard build:

 

Leave 3rd slot empty if you're strapped for cash.

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

This is a pretty standard build:

 

 

Leave 3rd slot empty if you're strapped for cash.

Thx for the reply - don´t wanna bother you with questions but is there a reason not to take EAA?

[Dominik_Tirpitz]

Just now, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Thx for the reply - don´t wanna bother you with questions but is there a reason not to take EAA?

You need to fly into flak clouds if you want to "benefit" from the 25% reduction. So if you know how to dodge them, EAA means you waste 4 points.

Only CV where it is recommended is FDR as you eat flak clouds sometimes (big, slow sqadrons)

[Nibenay78]

4 hours ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Sorry, but my mind went someone totally off-topic when reading that...

Presumably skip bombs not boing-boings as anime girls are fond of calling them....

I'm too old for anime clearly! I'm surrounded by dirty minds!

@Excavatus Dropped a poopoo on my ship :(

[Miscommunication_dept]

How to keep your team mates happy as a CV:

[Nibenay78]

16 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

How to keep your team mates happy as a CV:

Now WG will increase CVs defence against other CVs...

[Pikkozoikum]

3 hours ago, Dominik_Tirpitz said:

You need to fly into flak clouds if you want to "benefit" from the 25% reduction. So if you know how to dodge them, EAA means you waste 4 points.

Only CV where it is recommended is FDR as you eat flak clouds sometimes (big, slow sqadrons)

I actually think that people get way more often hit biy Flak, then they actually notice, it just hits sometimes only one plane. I noticed, that I often do ~1k long range hits. Though probably still not worth it 4 points

[Nibenay78]

23 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

What you mean with on impact? They are HE-Bombs, those always detonate on impact ^^

I had in my mind that skip bombing used timed fuzes and somehow I assumed it'd be here also.

My bad!