General CV related discussions.

[El2aZeR]

38 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I'm kinda curious what would happen if Masterrr @El2aZeR would get FDR. 

 

I have one.

I just practically never play it because why should I when Midway is better in pretty much every way?

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

I have one.

I'd like to witness that. You know... the lion and all that... 

 

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

I just practically never play it because why should I when Midway is better in pretty much every way?

It definitely is, I agree. But the farming is...well... farmulicious? I'd like to see how things are done, the stuff on YouTube is usually just people getting lucky and get 400+K somehow.

All what those games tell me is "go find dufuses that do not steer or change speed at all when you come in with torps/bombs, and do not react in any way after dropping either". 

Same as with MvR, best games Youtube: "go find a game that has lots of Yammies/Musashis sitting still behind an island, while being spotted by your teammates". Meh. 

 

 

[HystericalAccuracy]

46 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That 20K can only happen if he gets you front-to-rear (or vice versa). 

And he has to be (quite) lucky to hit all the bombs on anything smaller than a Stalingrad.

Rocket-planes, caught me in the turn. Coming directly from port - strike - flew off to stbd.

I hoped to get away because initially he went for the stationary Hipper next to me.

 

 

48 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Unless that was you, being spotted, sitting parked up behind an island... just waiting for SH.. to happen?

Doing 30 knots despite maximum rudder deflection, not really parked.

Was retreating from cap C bc two BBs were slinging at me.

And also because my support headed towards line 10 and couldn´t shoot anyone because of the islands.

All the info is in the screenshot.

 

57 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

And you didn't smoke up (no chance if you did).

No, because I disengaged from an exposed position north of cap C and after the turn instantly returned to the cap to support our DD there.

 

55 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Any other CV would have done it, and probably easier. 

How enjoyable, makes me really look forward to my next match with CVs 

[El2aZeR]

24 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I'd like to witness that. You know... the lion and all that...

 

I did make one video on it.

 

 

Aptly titled if I may say so myself.

[BLUB__BLUB]

20 minutes ago, VIadoCro said:

Rocket-planes, caught me in the turn. Coming directly from port - strike - flew off to stbd.

I hoped to get away because initially he went for the stationary Hipper next to me.

Damn you were really unlucky there. He even might have ff-d it up omn the Hipper and got you instead. 

In which case he was REALLY lucky. Also... 20K with rockets... I have NEVER been that lucky. 

And I did PLENTY broadsides on every cruiser that there is in T8/9/10. Most I got was 15K. 

And I KNOW how to do it (MvR sort of serves as a training on how to aim rockets).

 

20 minutes ago, VIadoCro said:

How enjoyable, makes me really look forward to my next match with CVs 

Well yeah, but it is what it is. I find other CVs easier. El2azer is not wrong when he calls it "wheelchair mode".

Sure it is easy, slow, "relaxing" and almost noob-proof. But to do REALLY big with it, is not that easy. 

You CAN hit (almost) anything, and nothing can escape - but most of the targets can "mitigate" at least 60%.

So yeah sure you can hit that (...fill in whatever...). But with any other CV you'd do the max damage, not with this thing.

[CptBarney]

16 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I did make one video on it.

 

 

Aptly titled if I may say so myself.

Well freddy needs to get out once in awhile.

I could imagine the character in azur lane actually being in a wheelchair, with rocket boosters on the side with a deadpan face.

[BLUB__BLUB]

15 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Well freddy needs to get out once in awhile.

I could imagine the character in azur lane actually being in a wheelchair, with rocket boosters on the side with a deadpan face.

...and a very very large sledgehammer that can swat anything, but can be avoided sometimes.

And that large hammer, it is damn hard to hit small flies with it. 

 

33 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Aptly titled if I may say so myself.

Thanks for that one. Yes very aptly titled. However in a wheelchair it's not easy to "damage RACE". 

Hits like a truck but have to make it count. Gotta get all 8 torps to hit, else the reds Midway will win it. 

 

I see a few things that I will try. Like, returning with 4-6 planes still left and not "milking it" to the end. Ignore the ship that is almost dead anyway (I sort of do that already).

I also see a bunch of stuff that I am happy it is not "just me being a tater" as you have it too. AKA it is not me doing it wrong. 

As in, completely missing Halland with bombs (duh...), or just when you are about to kill a ship he gets deleted (KS... of course). Ammo lost, nothing for it, dammit, 30sec wasted.

 

I find it easy to do 150K in FDR, but the match influence isn't there because it is s...l....o...wwwwwww A. F. First 50 K comes fast (< 5 minutes). Second 50K takes a bit longer. 

If ROFLSTOMP happens, maybe not at all (6-7 minute games). Somehow that doesn't seem to happen to you, what's the trick? Or is it something else?

 

 

 

[JohnMac79]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I did make one video on it.

 

 

Aptly titled if I may say so myself.

Dropped a Halland and kept it spotted for 3 drops, something i was recently told in this thread is an impossiblity.... Well i never.

[Nibenay78]

18 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

CV population is currently dying quite hard.

As a result CV players have to wait longer in queue, resulting in queue overextension and thus the possibility of 2 CV per team matches even in high tiers.

 

So paradoxically an increase in 4 CV matches is the result of fewer CVs in queue. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Better to get it over with instead of suffering the unfun games twice

[Nibenay78]

2 hours ago, CptBarney said:

I could imagine the character in azur lane actually being in a wheelchair, with rocket boosters on the side with a deadpan face.

I'm thrilled the rest of us can disable all that stuff.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

8 hours ago, Lordcrafty said:

yes yes, do continue. When there's only the true CV mains left it will be much much more fun.

If it means we're back to RTS times, where we see CVs about every 10 battles at any tier and a Unicorn CV about once every half year... yeah, sounds great to me.

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

Dropped a Halland and kept it spotted for 3 drops, something i was recently told in this thread is an impossiblity.... Well i never.

--> this player is definitely as unicum as they come...

--> the Halland player is kinda average... has >60% in Cv though. 

---> he spotted him, and took 1500 off with rockets. 

---> the Halland was spotted by the Shima at 1:27... it was not the CV spotting him.

---> he took a full squad of bombers, first drop he got 8K, wow.

---> second drop he got zilch. Actually that is more usual... 

---> third drop he got 1 pen, enough to kill the Halland (also, as the Shima had helped and the Halland was pre-roasted). 

 

Halland was spotted by same squad (AND the Shima) from 1:29 to 2:50.... which is NOT 1.5 minutes. 

Total Halland was 19200HP, CV scored 13123 minus the 1500 which he scored from the start. 

 

Yeah I never... and it will not get much "better" than this.

- unicum CV, medium Halland player. CV had one plane left, AND he had (some) assistance, AND the Halland was pre-fried.

Also this is in 0.9.10 and not current iteration. 

 

@Sunleader calculated that it is possible, but highly unlikely. 

Even this situation, it is close but not quite what proposedly happened.

And I do not think you'll find any better CV player.

 

 

[JohnMac79]

8 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

--> this player is definitely as unicum as they come...

--> the Halland player is kinda average... has >60% in Cv though. 

---> he spotted him, and took 1500 off with rockets. 

---> the Halland was spotted by the Shima at 1:27... it was not the CV spotting him.

---> he took a full squad of bombers, first drop he got 8K, wow.

---> second drop he got zilch. Actually that is more usual... 

---> third drop he got 1 pen, enough to kill the Halland (also, as the Shima had helped and the Halland was pre-roasted). 

 

Halland was spotted by same squad (AND the Shima) from 1:29 to 2:50.... which is NOT 1.5 minutes. 

Total Halland was 19200HP, CV scored 13123 minus the 1500 which he scored from the start. 

 

Yeah I never... and it will not get much "better" than this.

- unicum CV, medium Halland player. CV had one plane left, AND he had (some) assistance, AND the Halland was pre-fried.

Also this is in 0.9.10 and not current iteration. 

 

@Sunleader calculated that it is possible, but highly unlikely. 

Even this situation, it is close but not quite what proposedly happened.

And I do not think you'll find any better CV player.

 

 

You just cant help yourself can you

 

As a medicore player you should stop telling us all what is and is not possible then making up a whole load of nonsense to still try to 'win' the argument.

[BLUB__BLUB]

Just now, JohnMac79 said:

You just cant help yourself can you

Nah I'm kinda same like you. You probably overdid your claims, like most DD.

Go check it. The CV didn't spot the Halland when he came in, the Shima did. 

And CV already knew where he left the Halland because he pre-fried him. 

CV wasn't spotting Halland for 1.5 minutes either.

 

Unicum CV player had 1 plane left, spotted less than 1.5 minutes, on a pre-fried Halland, with help.

Now go think how (un)likely your scenario is. 

 

[Excavatus]

20 hours ago, capt_and said:

Hello there, I want to ask you a question: I have enough gold to convert xp and get the Lexington, or to get the Saipan, which one do I take??? Lexington or Saipan???

 

First get your lexington via normal way... 

Play ranger... Tier 6 is the best tier to learn CV gameplay. You get uptiered, you be top tier, 

don't jump onto lexington, you'll only be a burden to your team, and it will take a loooooot of time to learn how to play. 

 

As for the saipan, 

Saipan is a very strong but extremely hard to play CV. I don't recommend it to someone without experience in US CVs. 

My rule of thumb is, since Saipan has very low reserves, and midway planes, 

 

Play the game normally, grind the line, get to midway, have at least 100 battles with midway. 

Then you decide to get saipan or not... 

[BLUB__BLUB]

11 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

As a medicore player you should stop telling us all what is and is not possible then making up a whole load of nonsense to still try to 'win' the argument.

Sort of "pulling stats" is not gonna help you here. It just makes you look.. well.. a statpuller.

May I remind you that @Sunleader explained it perfectly. You can hardly call him a mediocre player. 

 

And now it is YOU that tries to drag it up using @El2aZeR Youtube movie. 

Which is, as I have shown, NOT proving your point, at all. 

 

 

[Sunleader]

11 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

You just cant help yourself can you

 

As a medicore player you should stop telling us all what is and is not possible then making up a whole load of nonsense to still try to 'win' the argument.

 

36 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Sort of "pulling stats" is not gonna help you here. It just makes you look.. well.. a statpuller.

May I remind you that @Sunleader explained it perfectly. You can hardly call him a mediocre player. 

 

And now it is YOU that tries to drag it up using @El2aZeR Youtube movie. 

Which is, as I have shown, NOT proving your point, at all. 

 

 

 

 

Careful with the wording pls.

I said that its not Average Result. Not that its Highly Unlikely.

 

""

Final Verdict.

3 Drops on a Halland will only Work if the Halland is Alone and the FDR is a Very Good CV Player.

Alternatively. 3 Drops on a Halland will Work for any Decent CV Player if the Player in the Halland is Inferior in Skill and makes Mistakes.

 

The Average Scenario however is more likely to end up with 2 Drops. As Unicum CVs are not that Common. And vast Majority of CV Players is unlikely to not get hit by any Flak at all. 

""

 

I also further Clarified this later in this Post.

 

After all. Most CVs wont be Unicums. But neither will most Hallands be Unicums.

Also not all Hallands will have a Full AA Build or always Hit with Sectors as the Maximum Math example of mine Showed.

My Math Example was Assuming 2 Unicum Players Facing of against each other and both doing a Perfect Play.

 

And the Result was that even in this case the FDR could Pull off 3 Drops as long as the Halland is Alone.

But thats not the Average. Neither Unicum CVs nor Unicum Hallands are the Normal Case.

 

 

So.

3 Drops is merely not the Average Result you get.

The Average is more around 2 Drops.

But 3 Drops is Possible under Common Circumstances and thus is certainly not Highly Unlikely.

 

Highly unlikely would mean that it only Happens under very Specific Circumstances in Rare Occassions.

That is not the case here.

The only Reason 3 Drops is not the Average Scenario. Is because the Average CV will Fly into Flak at least once or twice. Hence most CVs will not be able to pull off 3 Drops as they lose too much HP beforehand.

 

Something not being the Default outcome doesnt mean its Highly Unlikely. So pls use Direct References or Quotes on this. Otherwise it ends up being Misleading.

 

 

 

 

 

Now. That aside and onto the Actual Topic.

What happened in that Video.

 

 

Fairly Simply Said. In the Video we See a Potato Halland thinking the way we already had Discussed a few Pages back. He tried to Disable his AA to go Unspotted and thus actually Wasted alot of Continues Damage. Thus heavily Extending the Time Elazer can Stay above him.

He is Faced with Elazer. Which is a Super Unicum CV Player. And Frankly under these Circumstances could easily have Pulled of 4 Drops if he Wanted to. Because that Halland not only made several Mistakes but also wasnt Full AA build.

 

You can also Notice that the Halland missed the Sector Timing several Times and seems to have used DFAA before on the Rockets instead as he didnt seem to use

 

 

What we learn from this is fairly Simple.

Dont Disable AA as a Halland unless you are Certain the CV has not yet Found your Position.

If the CV already knows where you are. Always leave AA on. Because you only allow him more Time above you otherwise.

 

In general for any DD you should Disable AA in 2 cases.

 

1.

When the CV has not yet Found you. And you have a good Chance to Avoid Detection at all.

In that case Avoid Detection and Keep AA off. Only Activating it once your Found anyways. Afterwards keep it on till the Squadron is Dead.

2.

When the CV was gone long enough that he cannout Pinpoint your Location good enough to Drop you on First Detection. (only works on Rockets of course)

In that case wait till the CV is close enough to overshoot or has missed you on a Side from which he cant turn fast enough to still hit you. And then Activate AA to get maximum damage while he is doing a loop around to get in Position for a Strike.

 

Any other Case. Leave AA.

[Lordcrafty]

16 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

Dropped a Halland and kept it spotted for 3 drops, something i was recently told in this thread is an impossiblity.... Well i never.

fairly sure this is before a patch which increased flak duration which is relevant because El2aZeR's approach here isn't really possible anymore if I'm correct, you can also clearly see that the halland wasted their DFAA on the rocket planes which should never have spotted them from a dangerous distance in the first place, this is ideal scenario for the CV and isn't really representative.

edit: I find it depressing how the playerbase cannot even manage to get the current simple AA mechanics right. Sure, it only provides absolutely minimal help, but I just find it funny how people genuinely have no clue about the correct way to use two keys on their keyboard.

[Miscommunication_dept]

Am I getting this right?

 

In a Midway you win by spotting and killing destroyers and controlling cap zones.

 

In an FDR, you win by removing support from destroyers and cap zones by killing battleships.

 

FDR still tempts me in spite of almost every unicum CV player suggesting it is worse than Midway.

 

At least it plays differently to other offerings. I think I might enjoy a slower pace....

[El2aZeR]

50 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Am I getting this right?

 

Not really.

In Midway you attack priority targets, increasing your chance to win by removing them.

In FDR you farm damage primarily on battleships and large cruisers which may or may not help you to win because you are incapable of engaging other targets effectively.

 

If you think you may enjoy FDR tho by all means, get it.

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Final Verdict.

3 Drops on a Halland will only Work if the Halland is Alone and the FDR is a Very Good CV Player.

Alternatively. 3 Drops on a Halland will Work for any Decent CV Player if the Player in the Halland is Inferior in Skill and makes Mistakes.

Still this video doesn't prove his point at all, the contrary I think. 

IMO he is claiming to "not have deserved it" while it was his own mistakes.

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Not really.

In Midway you attack priority targets, increasing your chance to win by removing them.

In FDR you farm damage primarily on battleships which may or may not help you to win because you are incapable of engaging other targets effectively.

True. If you try to be actually effective it is pretty hard in FDR. 

Because if you hunt DDs you'll suck at it (we're not all masterrr El2).

And if you farm the taters you'll have no influence over win/lose, but the other (non-FDR) CV will. 

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

If you think you may enjoy FDR tho by all means, get it.

It is a challenge... I still need more GitGud. I like the challenge though, as in Ark Royal. 
Which is sort of better at T6, in general. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

Am I getting this right?

 

In a Midway you win by spotting and killing destroyers and controlling cap zones.

Sort of. You can also still smack BBs. 6 torps from Midway do same as 8 from FDR (if you manage to hit 8... because they are slow, too).

 

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

In an FDR, you win by removing support from destroyers and cap zones by killing battleships.

There is a thing though. How many BBs do you see supporting nowadays. 

Yours do not and neither do the reds. So killing them will have less effect. As they didn't do their job anyway. 

However... its is also great at smacking parked-up-next-to-island Stalingrads and such. 

You can even hit two of them at the same time... 

 

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

FDR still tempts me in spite of almost every unicum CV player suggesting it is worse than Midway.

They are right. I'd say it is worse than MvR and Haku as well. 

 

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

At least it plays differently to other offerings. I think I might enjoy a slower pace....

It does. Also, it has great credit potential. And captain grinding. 

Since it is a "premium" you can put any BB/Cl/DD captain on it, get him to 21 points, and presto. 
 

[Sunleader]

1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Still this video doesn't prove his point at all, the contrary I think. 

IMO he is claiming to "not have deserved it" while it was his own mistakes.

 

True. If you try to be actually effective it is pretty hard in FDR. 

Because if you hunt DDs you'll suck at it (we're not all masterrr El2).

And if you farm the taters you'll have no influence over win/lose, but the other (non-FDR) CV will. 

 

It is a challenge... I still need more GitGud. I like the challenge though, as in Ark Royal. 
Which is sort of better at T6, in general. 

 

I am not really sure what Point you guys are trying to make to each other in the First Place.

 

 

1.

I dont know what his Point is.

 

If his Point is. That it is Possible to get 3 Drops on a Halland using FDR Bombers.

Then that Video is Evidence for that.

 

If his Point is. That this is what Always happens then that would be Rubbish of Course. As the Average Player is clearly not Capable of handling things like Elazer.

 

 

2.

Your Claim is also not really Verified here.

 

If you Claim that its not Possible. Then this is Debunked by this Video very clearly as its done there and with room to spare.

 

If you Claim that its Possible but very rare. Then that is not entirely Debunked by that Video. But clearly Challenged. Both by the Video and my Earlier Calculation. Because pretty clearly there is alot of Room for 3 Drops to be done. So its not something that requires a very rare set of Circumstances.

 

If you Claim that its Common but not the Standard Result you see in a Match. Then this Video has little Bearing on that. After all the Video Shows a Unicum CV Player. So its not Representing for what an Average Player will be Capable off.

And the Standard Result is always what the Average Player does against another Average Player.

 

 

 

 

So maybe you should actually First make a Clear Statement on what your Actual Claims are.

Otherwise its not really Possible to say much from the Outside.

[BLUB__BLUB]

52 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

So maybe you should actually First make a Clear Statement on what your Actual Claims are.

Otherwise its not really Possible to say much from the Outside.

The original claim was by @arttuperkunas  NO WASNT. 

 

The thread that got locked is here: 

 

But I responded to Arttuperkunas here. 

 

The thing that it is about:

 

Here: 

 

A bit later then JohnnyMac comes in again, says he has had the same happen to him, which he hasn't as it is impossible. 
And, guess what, it is not the same at all. Yes of course when FDR (or whatever) spots you and his friends dig in, then you die.
 

 

 

So the original claim was:

1 FDR had the first spot, Halland was unspotted before
2 kept him spotted for 1.5 to 2 minutes straight (no help from friends),
3 FDR lost no planes...

4 AND meanwhile FDR pulled off 3 attacks. 
and THAT ALL together is quite impossible IMO. 

 

Now in that movie, El2 had 1500 damage from rockets on him from the first attack, so...
- The Halland position is sort of known, and he already has 1500 HE-damage;
- the friendly Shima now spots the Halland for El2 so of course El2 can attack straight away;
- That Shuima even gets 25% off that Halland (and then dies...);
- ...and we see that after 3 attacks (in which El2 kills Halland... but do we forget the rockets? And Shima?) he has just 1 plane left.

Note too, that as soon as El2 posts the video, JohnnyMac jumps on it and brings it as proof.
Now I may be "not the best Cv player" but that is certainly NOT the FDR being the only spotter and bringing down a Halland in 3 strikes.
And I think, one plane left, if there is ONE player that could do it it is El2, and he is NOT doing it here.  

[arttuperkunas]

Just now, BLUB__BLUB said:

The original claim was by @arttuperkunas in a thread that is now locked. I responded to him here:

Nnnoooo.

 

I don't have a Halland. I've barely started playing DDs. The original point was that "just dodge" is a dumb thing to say, and there is no real counterplay to CVs; and FDR is particularly bad in that manner. The whole weird Halland discussion was something I had no part in.