General CV related discussions.

[BLUB__BLUB]

16 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

You think wrong.

Maybe you are playing it wrong.

 

16 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

The truth is what i described and like i said, your 'expert' opinion of it doesnt mean a damn thing.

Well yeah so does yours though. Wouldn't be the first one to refuse to adapt and claim whatever. 

But go ahead, it keeps me motivated not to feel too much sorry for the DD-babbies.

 

15 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

I just looked and no i only have one Halland replay and its not from the CV game. ...

As expected.

[anonym_h2A7Pq9RjcIx]

2 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

I didn't cherry pick anything??? 
you said If you have an own voice say it.. I've told I've said it numerous times, 

You were being rude personally, I've answered that, that has nothing to do with the rest of your post, 

you've said you see moderators as WG representatives, I've said I respect that.. 

 

Anyway.. If you have more questions or comments, lets move onto the PMs, so we do not pollute the topic with personal discussions.  

 

Don't confuse rude with angry.  I am angry because as far as I'm concerned YOU ARE speaking on behalf of Wargaming and 'moderating' communications directed at them on behalf of them.  Don't forget these forums are also used to make complaints to Wargaming and not just to discuss the game itself, if you contact Wargaming directly they will politely direct you here and so it goes on.

 

As regards Carriers, it's not just what they have done with the rework, it's the length of time that's elapsed with no resolution.  Surely, if you  are of the opinion that Carriers are broken to such an extent that you say they are, then it is not unreasonable to ask why you choose to 'moderate' on behalf of such an company?

 

If you don't understand that then I'm wasting my breathe.

 

PS As regards 'cherry picking', when I quote someone I either quote everything they've said or try to choose a selection that doesn't dilute the context of what was orginally said. 

[Excavatus]

5 minutes ago, Fellatio_Nelson said:

 

Don't confuse rude with angry.  I am angry because as far as I'm concerned YOU ARE speaking on behalf of Wargaming and 'moderating' communications directed at them on behalf of them.  Don't forget these forums are also used to make complaints to Wargaming and not just to discuss the game itself, if you contact Wargaming directly they will politely direct you here and so it goes on.

 

As regards Carriers, it's not just what they have done with the rework, it's the length of time that's elapsed with no resolution.  Surely, if you  are of the opinion that Carriers are broken to such an extent that you say they are, then it is not unreasonable to ask why you choose to 'moderate' on behalf of such an company?

 

If you don't understand that then I'm wasting my breathe.

 

PS As regards 'cherry picking', when I quote someone I either quote everything they've said or try to choose a selection that doesn't dilute the context of what was orginally said. 

Nope, when I write in black, I'm speaking on MY behalf, as a regular player like you. 

and you are completely right, that this forum is somehow a hub for communicating with WG, 

you have every right to be angry, about anything. Nobody can judge you, 

but you don't need to insult / attack individuals or groups, to express your anger... 

you don't need to attack / insult people who does not share your opinions on a matter. 

And this is clearly forbidden in the forum. I hope this makes it clear enough. 

 

for the last question, "Why to choose to moderate on behalf of such a company" 
our views about the WG seems different a little bit, I don't agree with what they do everytime, lets say mostly, 

but this is my major entertainment venue, I love the game, I think company doing good things from time to time, 

and I'm already spending a lot of my free time in game / forum, so I thought It would be good to give something back.. 

and, I've said this before, and this is my opinion, If someday, I hate the game and the company as much as people do and express here, 

I'd basically just stop.. stop playing, stop reading, stop anything related to the game. 

My connection to the game and the company is based on self entertainment.. nothing less nothing more, 

If the game stops being entertaining for me, I'll just vanish.. I did that for the games I've played thosands of hours in the past, 

stopped one day in an instant, then never been seen.. thats me though, I don't expect people to act same. 

 

 

[Asashio_Kai_Nii]

12 minutes ago, Fellatio_Nelson said:

 

Don't confuse rude with angry.  I am angry because as far as I'm concerned YOU ARE speaking on behalf of Wargaming and 'moderating' communications directed at them on behalf of them.  Don't forget these forums are also used to make complaints to Wargaming and not just to discuss the game itself, if you contact Wargaming directly they will politely direct you here and so it goes on.

 

As regards Carriers, it's not just what they have done with the rework, it's the length of time that's elapsed with no resolution.  Surely, if you  are of the opinion that Carriers are broken to such an extent that you say they are, then it is not unreasonable to ask why you choose to 'moderate' on behalf of such an company?

 

If you don't understand that then I'm wasting my breathe.

 

PS As regards 'cherry picking', when I quote someone I either quote everything they've said or try to choose a selection that doesn't dilute the context of what was orginally said. 

Why would anything you say matter anyway since you are "angry" and we all know that anger out of all the feelings most similar to euphoria produce the most biased and hastily produced opinions? 

 

Why don't you come back sober into this discussion? 

[anonym_h2A7Pq9RjcIx]

12 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Nope, when I write in black, I'm speaking on MY behalf, as a regular player like you. 

and you are completely right, that this forum is somehow a hub for communicating with WG, 

you have every right to be angry, about anything. Nobody can judge you, 

but you don't need to insult / attack individuals or groups, to express your anger... 

you don't need to attack / insult people who does not share your opinions on a matter. 

And this is clearly forbidden in the forum. I hope this makes it clear enough. 

 

for the last question, "Why to choose to moderate on behalf of such a company" 
our views about the WG seems different a little bit, I don't agree with what they do everytime, lets say mostly, 

but this is my major entertainment venue, I love the game, I think company doing good things from time to time, 

and I'm already spending a lot of my free time in game / forum, so I thought It would be good to give something back.. 

and, I've said this before, and this is my opinion, If someday, I hate the game and the company as much as people do and express here, 

I'd basically just stop.. stop playing, stop reading, stop anything related to the game. 

My connection to the game and the company is based on self entertainment.. nothing less nothing more, 

If the game stops being entertaining for me, I'll just vanish.. I did that for the games I've played thosands of hours in the past,  

stopped one day in an instant, then never been seen.. thats me though, I don't expect people to act same. 

That's great, at least you understand where I'm coming from and I feel you understand my grievances, even if you don't entirely agree with them or my approach.  Maybe some of my words are lost in translation, but I love the game too and have thousands of game under my belt. At least now, I feel like I'm talking to a human being and not some automaton. Thank you.

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

But you need to consider that ships at that level have almost half torp reduction so actual damage may be more between 2500 - 3000 per drop.

 

Meta T8 CVs make do with less, it is perfectly adequate when plane speed is considered.

[1MajorKoenig]

27 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Meta T8 CVs make do with less, it is perfectly adequate when plane speed is considered.

Well GZ isn’t exactly a beast but her main issue are the stupid shotgun AP bombs. 
 

Won’t disagree on her torps being at least workeable at T8 but I can’t see how anyone calls them “scary” at T10. As said they will deliver 2.5-3k damage each. Less than a shell 

[El2aZeR]

50 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Won’t disagree on her torps being at least workeable at T8 but I can’t see how anyone calls them “scary” at T10. As said they will deliver 2.5-3k damage each. Less than a shell 

 

Meta T8 CVs perform perfectly fine in T10 MM. Hakuryu delivers less total alpha per attack and her torps are considered very powerful. Again, their viability depends entirely on torp spacing and how easy it is going to be to get all of them on target.

As for them being scary, well, again depends on the above, but if that's a given they will be.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Won’t disagree on her torps being at least workeable at T8 but I can’t see how anyone calls them “scary” at T10. As said they will deliver 2.5-3k damage each. Less than a shell 

It's the fact that they "deliver reliably" AKA once a shell is fired you can still avoid, CV torps not so. 

But them being scary, well, a T8 CV does face T6/7/8/9/10. Therefore, it needs to be able to do damage at T10.

Not so much for a T10CV, it never faces T11/12... so why does it need twice the torps? 

[tocqueville8]

22 hours ago, Arnie1808 said:

Can someone explain to me why CV's are in the new Brawl mode?

I play mostly BB's and I can't even get to full speed by the time I have been spotted and then torp'd to crap. I don't get chance to even spot the CV nevermind hit him before I am dead so whats the point in playing in Brawl against a CV I might as well quit out or just not play Brawl which is a shame but hey ho CV's ruining crap is the norm these days.

I suggest you play something like Massa or Bismarck, go for the caps and stay either in a strait (to avoid getting torped) or in the open to maneuver better.

I'm a decent CV player, but in Brawls I've been far better against CVs than with one.

Best of luck!

[Lordcrafty]

3 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

I suggest you play something like Massa or Bismarck, go for the caps and stay either in a straight (to avoid getting torped) or in the open to maneuver better.

I'm a decent CV player, but in Brawls I've been far better against CVs than with one.

Best of luck!

dunno about bismarck, but massa should work thanks to the great heals.

[tocqueville8]

29 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

dunno about bismarck

Massa is better imho (I did abysmally against them in this mode), but it's a retired premium, so it seemed fair to include a tech tree ship that also has good secondaries. The hydro is situational, but very useful in some island play.

[EUBEAT]

Hi all,
Is it worth taking the secondary armament expert on the Ryūjō, with a 11 points captain ?

Thinking abouth late end game play.

 

[OVanBruce]

51 minutes ago, Strand007 said:

Hi all,
Is it worth taking the secondary armament expert on the Ryūjō, with a 11 points captain ?

Thinking abouth late end game play.

 

Never bother with secondaries on a CV except on Graf Zeppelin, learn to rely on your planes to sink everything.

[Sunleader]

On 3/9/2021 at 10:41 AM, BLUB__BLUB said:

Look DD-babbie, maybe you should get a Thunderer then and spam from the rear. 

I may not be the best CV player around, but your claim is impossible,. Halland has an air-detection radius that is quite small. 

To detect you for 3 drops, FDR has to stay within that detection range for 1.5 minutes. His planes will not survive. 

Certainly not because FDR has large squads. It is impossible to be near a Halland and not eat any FLAK. 

The only way is to turn and boost out if you spot him. Then you CAN spot him again, but the risk is again the same.

 

Unless you were shooting, in which case he can be further away to spot you, but you will also be spotted by anyone within your firing range. 

And that is not the CV then that is spotting you, it is you being a dufus. 

 

Responding to an Older Post cause I just saw that. And I think I need to Explain some CV Mechanics here.

 

 

 

Lets do the Math.

FDR with a Standard Build has 14 HE Dive Bombers in 1 Squadron. Each of them has 4537 HP that means that the whole Squad together has the Insane amount of 63518 HP

Halland with Full AA Build has 181 DPS in Long and 438 DPS in Medium Range Together a Rounded Value of 620 DPS. Add to that 35% from Sector every 20 Seconds for 10% and each time doing 5% Damage on the Remaining Squadrons HP.

Thats for the Simple Part.

 

Now in addition to that we got some Variables.

 

1.

Each time the FDR Drops. It will lose 2 Aircract. But it will also be Immune to Damage for about 5 Seconds

2.

The FDR will not Spend the Full Time in the Inner AA Zone. And since the FDR only Closes into the Inner Zone to Drop. And will leave the Inner Zone using the Immunity Time after the Drop. The Time in the Inner Zone will actually be heavily Limited.

3.

There is a Risk of the Halland using the Sector during an Immunity Timer and thus Lose the 5% Bonus Damage.

4.

There is a Risk of the FDR running into Flak.

5.

By Default any Aircraft Carrier will have the Skill to Reduce Continues AA Damage by 10%

 

 

Now. We will assume that the Halland always uses the Sector Perfectly. We will also assume FDR Times his Strikes Perfectly to manage the Distance. Now Flak can be Evaded by any Decent CV. So we will assume the FDR to not be hit by Flak.

 

Now. Assuming the Perfect management of Distance. The FDR would need about 5 Seconds to Cross through the Inner Zone and Drop. And another 5 Seconds in which it is Immune. To leave it again.

That leaves 20 Seconds per Drop in the Outer Zone.

The Halland however also Manages the Sector Perfectly. So the Sector will be Full Power during the 5 Seconds the FDR is in the Inner Sector and adds 5 Seconds to the outer Sector.

So we get for every 30 Seconds

15x181 Damage

5x 244 Damage

5x 591 Damage

And 1x5% of the Remaining Squadrons HP.

 

Now. The FDR Comes into Range. And goes for the Halland.

On the First Pass which we for Simplicity will assume to take the Full 30 Seconds even tough thats Honestly far too long.

The Halland will do a Total of 10k Damage

And FDR will lose another 9k HP from the 2 Aircraft that Retreat after Dropping the Bombs.

14 Aircraft become 10 Aircraft.

 

Second Pass. This time the Squadron only has 44k HP Left. So it will only take 9.5k HP Damage due to the lower Sector Bonus.

It will take another 9k from the Retreating Aircraft.

So after the Second Pass its down to 25500.

Which means the 10 Aircraft became 6 Aircraft. One of which is Practically Dead.

 

And guess what.

Third Pass.

On this Pass the Squadron only Starts with 25500 HP so the Total Damage done is only 9k HP.

Another 9k from the last 2 Aircraft to Drop. Total of 18k Damage.

The Squadron therefore has 7500 HP Left.

 

Which means after the 3rd Drop the FDRs Squadron still has 2 Aircraft Left. One of which is Half Dead.

 

The Halland has Destroyed a Total of 6 Aircraft. And another 6 Aircraft have Retreated.

2 Aircraft are still there to Spot.

 

So in Theory 3 Drops are Perfectly within the Capabilities of an FDR.

 

 

 

Now pls note.

This is of course Assuming the FDR is not Running into Flak.

Which is Perfectly Possible for a Good CV Player.

This is also Assuming the Halland is Perfectly Managing its Sector and is really good Positioned for the FDR to take that long on the First Drop.

Which is also Perfectly Possible for a Good DD Player.

 

 

If the FDR makes Mistakes the Chance for 3 Drops Decreases of course. As any additional Second wasted and any Hit by AA will severely reduce the HP Reserve. And FDR only has 1.5 Aircraft HP to Spare for this. So at best it can take 1 Flak Hit or about 15 Extra Seconds in AA before the 3rd Drop is Endangered.

Likewise if the Halland just once Misses the Sector or Triggers it during the Immunity Timer after a Drop. It will basicly give the FDR 10 to 15 Seconds longer inside its AA Range due to losing that Damage Output.

 

 

 

Final Verdict.

3 Drops on a Halland will only Work if the Halland is Alone and the FDR is a Very Good CV Player.

Alternatively. 3 Drops on a Halland will Work for any Decent CV Player if the Player in the Halland is Inferior in Skill and makes Mistakes.

 

The Average Scenario however is more likely to end up with 2 Drops. As Unicum CVs are not that Common. And vast Majority of CV Players is unlikely to not get hit by any Flak at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Final Verdict.

3 Drops on a Halland will only Work if the Halland is Alone and the FDR is a Very Good CV Player.

Alternatively. 3 Drops on a Halland will Work for any Decent CV Player if the Player in the Halland is Inferior in Skill and makes Mistakes.

 

The Average Scenario however is more likely to end up with 2 Drops. As Unicum CVs are not that Common. And vast Majority of CV Players is unlikely to not get hit by any Flak at all.

Good job. I agree. There's just one more thing... 

 

Did you also calculate the "continuous spotting"? I think you only calculated "3 drops". 

After that you'll need to find him again if you go outside his AA. 

IMO if you want to "continuously spot" a Halland, you will, unless you are RNGesus himself (or maybe @El2aZeR,...) eat FLAK. 

Because you'll need to stay within that 3.39km (air detection range without commander skill) to continouously spot him. 

 

I'd also say on the first drop (with the largest squad) you'll eat some FLAK. 

There is no hole big enough in the Halland FLAK wall to push that fat squad 100% through.

Unless you already know where Halland is (teammate spotted him), you WILL take some.

 

And YES have done 3 drops on a Halland. Even 4 sometimes. 

But that one was shooting, he was between two islands (so I could escape from his AA),

and he was shooting my teammate who was doing the spotting. And the #@^##@# survived, too.  

 

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Good job. I agree. There's just one more thing... 

 

Did you also calculate the "continuous spotting"? I think you only calculated "3 drops". 

After that you'll need to find him again if you go outside his AA. 

IMO if you want to "continuously spot" a Halland, you will, unless you are RNGesus himself (or maybe @El2aZeR,...) eat FLAK. 

Because you'll need to stay within that 3.39km (air detection range without commander skill) to continouously spot him. 

 

I'd also say on the first drop (with the largest squad) you'll eat some FLAK. 

There is no hole big enough in the Halland FLAK wall to push that fat squad 100% through.

Unless you already know where Halland is (teammate spotted him), you WILL take some.

 

And YES have done 3 drops on a Halland. Even 4 sometimes. 

But that one was shooting, he was between two islands (so I could escape from his AA),

and he was shooting my teammate who was doing the spotting. And the #@^##@# survived, too.  

 

 

1.

There is a Fallacy in that.

The Air Detection Range only Counts if the Halland Disables his AA.

And Flak ONLY Spawns on 3.5km or higher Distance.

So if Halland Disables AA to remain Unspotted. You will not get hit by Flak as he never Spawns any Flak.

After all by the time he is Detected and Activates AA. You are below the minimum 3.5km Flak Distance.

So you either cant be hit by Flak. Or the Halland is Spotted on 6km away (AA Range)

 

2.

You dont need a Hole.

Flak is a Timed Explosion Spawned so it will hit you in your current path and Speed.

 

So you have 2  factors here where you can prevent Flak hitting you.

 

A.

The Path.

The most Basic Option.

Change your path to avoid Flak.

But this only works if you find a Hole.

 

A Good CV Player will approach the Target Diagonally so that the Flak Spawns away from the Target.

Then once the Flak Spawned you turn towards the Target where no Flak Spawned as that was not your Path.

 

B.

The Time.

This is Straightforward.

Change your Speed.

Slow down to make Flak Spawn.

Then Boost through it so it explodes behind you.

 

 

3.

There is always alot of Factors.

Islands and Shooting are further things that can work to increase Drops.

Another Factor us AA Destruction.

Each actual Hit with Rockets or Bombs will cause the AA to weaken.

So a Full HP Hallabd at the start of the much will be harder to do 3 Drops on.

Than one that is Half HP in the Endgame :)

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

 

1.

There is a Fallacy in that.

The Air Detection Range only Counts if the Halland Disables his AA.

And Flak ONLY Spawns on 3.5km or higher Distance.

So if Halland Disables AA to remain Unspotted. You will not get hit by Flak as he never Spawns any Flak.

After all by the time he is Detected and Activates AA. You are below the minimum 3.5km Flak Distance.

So you either cant be hit by Flak. Or the Halland is Spotted on 6km away (AA Range)

Yes, that is the fallacy. So, since he says the CV kept him spotted all the time... so he says...

He was spotted from > 6km, in which case he was shooting. Or the CV was catching Flak. 

 

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

2.

You dont need a Hole.

Flak is a Timed Explosion Spawned so it will hit you in your current path and Speed.

 

So you have 2  factors here where you can prevent Flak hitting you.

Agreed. Somewhat. Some games I manage top avoid Halland Flak, mostly I do eat some of it.

I I know where he is, he's not gonna get me. Sometimes I do not know and I "find "him. 

Then I use the tricks, but often still lose planes. 

AKA it depends a bit on the lag/connection, you will get the AA warning and spot him, and at the same time dakka starts.

 

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

A.

The Path.

The most Basic Option.

Change your path to avoid Flak.

But this only works if you find a Hole.

That hole also has to be big enough for your squad, too. 

 

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

A Good CV Player will approach the Target Diagonally so that the Flak Spawns away from the Target.

Then once the Flak Spawned you turn towards the Target where no Flak Spawned as that was not your Path.

True. But you'd have to spot him first, else no target to approach. 

 

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

B.

The Time.

This is Straightforward.

Change your Speed.

Slow down to make Flak Spawn.

Then Boost through it so it explodes behind you.

Yes. But that is once you know where he is. Or at least when he knows where YOU are..

 

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

 

3.

There is always alot of Factors.

Islands and Shooting are further things that can work to increase Drops.

Another Factor us AA Destruction.

Each actual Hit with Rockets or Bombs will cause the AA to weaken.

So a Full HP Hallabd at the start of the much will be harder to do 3 Drops on.

Than one that is Half HP in the Endgame :)

True. In my case I managed 4 drops, then had only ~2.1 planes left which would not make it. 

As in, 3 planes, one burning and smoking, one just leaving a trail. The Halland won. 

My mate died (torps...) and Halland escaped. With ~25% HP, but hey. It is kinda RNG if you hit them.

I had more luck with Fat Currywursts, this weekend I detonated one with 3 torp hits. 

For sure you will not hit all bombs on a DD. You can hit multiple torps though. 

(all skill no luck)^TM

[Nibenay78]

 

Gotta love how one can "assist" with shooting down planes! Whooping 29 strikes planes!

Yes I know you don't always get the killing blow...

[JohnMac79]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes, that is the fallacy. So, since he says the CV kept him spotted all the time... so he says...

He was spotted from > 6km, in which case he was shooting. Or the CV was catching Flak. 

 

Agreed. Somewhat. Some games I manage top avoid Halland Flak, mostly I do eat some of it.

I I know where he is, he's not gonna get me. Sometimes I do not know and I "find "him. 

Then I use the tricks, but often still lose planes. 

AKA it depends a bit on the lag/connection, you will get the AA warning and spot him, and at the same time dakka starts.

 

That hole also has to be big enough for your squad, too. 

 

True. But you'd have to spot him first, else no target to approach. 

 

Yes. But that is once you know where he is. Or at least when he knows where YOU are..

 

True. In my case I managed 4 drops, then had only ~2.1 planes left which would not make it. 

As in, 3 planes, one burning and smoking, one just leaving a trail. The Halland won. 

My mate died (torps...) and Halland escaped. With ~25% HP, but hey. It is kinda RNG if you hit them.

I had more luck with Fat Currywursts, this weekend I detonated one with 3 torp hits. 

For sure you will not hit all bombs on a DD. You can hit multiple torps though. 

(all skill no luck)^TM

Maybe you could just accept you are wrong and move along? This is getting slightly embarrassing...

 

Also nobody has taken into account the damage to AA either while i am being shot at and dropped, but dont let me detract from you telling me what happened is an impossibility...

 

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, Nibenay78 said:

 

Gotta love how one can "assist" with shooting down planes! Whooping 29 strikes planes!

Yes I know you don't always get the killing blow...

Fdr?

[Nibenay78]

2 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Fdr?

Make another scrutiny check ;)

[COPlUM]

6 hours ago, Strand007 said:

Hi all,
Is it worth taking the secondary armament expert on the Ryūjō, with a 11 points captain ?

Yes, do it.

[159Hunter]

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Make another scrutiny check ;)

I failed, severely...

[Nibenay78]

3 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

I failed, severely...

Hence we allowed a reroll on the check! :D