General CV related discussions.

[Kyorinn]

1 dakika önce, BLUB__BLUB dedi:

DDs are able to spot for themselves as well... and for others. 

In fact anything that has a concealment lower than other ships is able to spot. 

 

CVs can just do it faster. Though the "free for all" spotting needs to go. 

I'd say a certain circle, maybe comparable to the planes detection, and rest gets minimap-spotting.

Or something like that. 

 

 

exactly thats why the entire cv mechanics needs to go to trashcan

[HystericalAccuracy]

4 hours ago, FellRaven said:

I would encourage everyone to watch this video.

And I would suggest to take it with some grains of salt. That´s the guy which recently claimed that "cruisers are the easiest class to play and their ability to get away with misplays is bad for long-term health of the game".

 

For this dude CVs are "[edited]" and don´t belong in game generally, every strong cruiser is "overpowered" and every strong DD "cancerous". But Thunderer is "fun to play".

 

 

EDIT: I knew it, I am not making official content for Wows so I am not allowed to use certain words.

Spoiler

Then don´t take my words, take his. Official video-description from PotatoQuality:

Spoiler

Also, people call Flamu "cocky".

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, COMRADE_2019 said:

exactly thats why the entire cv mechanics needs to go to trashcan

Wuuuttt again? 

[FellRaven]

52 minutes ago, VIadoCro said:

And I would suggest to take it with some grains of salt. That´s the guy which recently claimed that "cruisers are the easiest class to play and their ability to get away with misplays is bad for long-term health of the game".

 

For this dude CVs are "[edited]" and don´t belong in game generally, every strong cruiser is "overpowered" and every strong DD "cancerous". But Thunderer is "fun to play".

 

 

EDIT: I knew it, I am not making official content for Wows so I am not allowed to use certain words.

  Reveal hidden contents

Then don´t take my words, take his. Official video-description from PotatoQuality:

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, people call Flamu "cocky".

I haven't seen his/her/there other videos or comments but I believe based on my own experience playing the game that this a fair assessment of CV Gameplay he summarises the issues very well.

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, VIadoCro said:

And I would suggest to take it with some grains of salt. That´s the guy which recently claimed that "cruisers are the easiest class to play and their ability to get away with misplays is bad for long-term health of the game".

 

For this dude CVs are "[edited]" and don´t belong in game generally, every strong cruiser is "overpowered" and every strong DD "cancerous". But Thunderer is "fun to play".

 

Well, i agree with his CV video, but some of the other stuff he says... boy oh boy. Thats really typical BBaby talk. BBs got buffed in 0.10.0, so BBs got nerfed Or the Cruiser stuff ...

[1MajorKoenig]

10 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well, i agree with his CV video, but some of the other stuff he says... boy oh boy. Thats really typical BBaby talk. BBs got buffed in 0.10.0, so BBs got nerfed Or the Cruiser stuff ...

I hope you see the problem yourself 

[Sunleader]

6 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

 

 

That, makes no sense. They'd still be better than an underpowered ship when played badly. 

While a BROKEN ship would be worse because the bad player cannot tap into the potential.

 

 

Actually it makes alot of Sense if you think about it.

 

Think of it in the SuperHero sense.

Power always comes with Responsibility.

The more Power you have. The more damage it causes when you mess up.

 

You see.

If you Choose the Standard Soldier. Then your Counterpart on the Enemy Team is also just your Standard Soldier.

So your Responsibility is basicly just that. Try to kill 1 Enemy Soldier and you basicly did your Job. Anything above that is Bonus Work.

Because you are 1 out of 11. Your Influence on the Whole is Fairly Limited unless you really Excel at your Job.

And thats fine. Because the Enemy gets the same Limited Influence in exchange for you being there.

 

But if you Choose to be the Boss. Then the Enemy Team also gets a Boss that is supposed to be your Counterpart. And which has a Comparable or Equal Power Level to You in terms of Base Stats.

Now your Responsibility actually Skyrockets. Because your not 1 out of 11. You are 1 out of 1. You are the most Powerful Part of the Team. And if you mess up. The whole Team Suffers Badly for it.

Because the Enemy Boss. Might do his Job. And actually use his Power. And just like you are Vastly more Powerful than the Enemy Soldiers. The Enemy Boss is also vastly more Powerful than your Soldiers.

So if you dont Perform Properly. Then the Enemy Boss will be mowing down your Soldiers while you do very little. And thus you end up Losing.

 

Not because you are not more Powerful than the Standard Soldiers. You clearly are.

But because the Enemy Boss is just as Strong as you. And unlike you will actually be using the Power for Effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CptBarney]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well, i agree with his CV video, but some of the other stuff he says... boy oh boy. Thats really typical BBaby talk. BBs got buffed in 0.10.0, so BBs got nerfed Or the Cruiser stuff ...

Well if he wants AA with a noice chonk he can always request to have dis added in..

 

 

Spoiler

Miss Hitachi! 'w'

 

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

I hope you see the problem yourself 

 

Maybe the BB players on NA are even more incompetent than over here, so if you play Cruisers they let you get away with everything?

[BLUB__BLUB]

11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Actually it makes alot of Sense if you think about it.

 

Think of it in the SuperHero sense.

Power always comes with Responsibility.

The more Power you have. The more damage it causes when you mess up.

That is quite true, but i this game you do not make damage if you mess up. 

If you have an overpowered ship (say, a Venezia before nerf) you just make zero damage if you FF it up.

Or if you play Petro and the enemy player has, ehhh, let's say a Salem.  You have the more powerful ship.

 

11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

You see.

If you Choose the Standard Soldier. Then your Counterpart on the Enemy Team is also just your Standard Soldier.

So your Responsibility is basicly just that. Try to kill 1 Enemy Soldier and you basicly did your Job. Anything above that is Bonus Work.

Because you are 1 out of 11. Your Influence on the Whole is Fairly Limited unless you really Excel at your Job.

And thats fine. Because the Enemy gets the same Limited Influence in exchange for you being there.

that would be when both players have that Salem. 

 

11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

But if you Choose to be the Boss. Then the Enemy Team also gets a Boss that is supposed to be your Counterpart. And which has a Comparable or Equal Power Level to You in terms of Base Stats.

Now your Responsibility actually Skyrockets. Because your not 1 out of 11. You are 1 out of 1. You are the most Powerful Part of the Team. And if you mess up. The whole Team Suffers Badly for it.

Because the Enemy Boss. Might do his Job. And actually use his Power. And just like you are Vastly more Powerful than the Enemy Soldiers. The Enemy Boss is also vastly more Powerful than your Soldiers.

So if you dont Perform Properly. Then the Enemy Boss will be mowing down your Soldiers while you do very little. And thus you end up Losing.

Correct. But this could still be "as is meant to be". One BB, 6 cruisers, 1 DD. 

 

11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Not because you are not more Powerful than the Standard Soldiers. You clearly are.

But because the Enemy Boss is just as Strong as you. And unlike you will actually be using the Power for Effect.

Now, that is what I'd say happens when "playing a broken class". 

[BLUB__BLUB]

12 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Maybe the BB players on NA are even more incompetent than over here, so if you play Cruisers they let you get away with everything?

Most mega-damage FDR games I have seen are on NA server... their BBs just go straight line.

Apparently "just dodge" hasn't yet made it across the great pond. 

[Lordcrafty]

14 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Maybe the BB players on NA are even more incompetent than over here, so if you play Cruisers they let you get away with everything?

many things about NA make me concerned about the average performance there, and then to add to that that I managed to get into a prolonged argument with some NA players maybe even one or two from O7 where they were pretty much arguing that damage is more important than WR and that you can draw conclusions after only 30 battles based on average damage. Yeah they must have been close to PQ through some other means this can't honestly be the NA top clan right?

[DFens_666]

11 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

where they were pretty much arguing that damage is more important than WR

 

Definetely makes sense after watching his Venezia video... really everyone can play Cruisers like that, sitting maxrange and farming BBs for purple damage. And yet, if you play a Cruiser like that, why not pick a BB? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[CptBarney]

10 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

many things about NA make me concerned about the average performance there, and then to add to that that I managed to get into a prolonged argument with some NA players maybe even one or two from O7 where they were pretty much arguing that damage is more important than WR and that you can draw conclusions after only 30 battles based on average damage. Yeah they must have been close to PQ through some other means this can't honestly be the NA top clan right?

They should take miss hitachi or ask weegee for 80km guided missile memes.

Or dat idea of ship that spawns smoll reeing torp boats that fly around the map at 300mph.

[Sunleader]

5 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That is quite true, but i this game you do not make damage if you mess up. 

If you have an overpowered ship (say, a Venezia before nerf) you just make zero damage if you FF it up.

Or if you play Petro and the enemy player has, ehhh, let's say a Salem.  You have the more powerful ship.

 

that would be when both players have that Salem. 

 

Correct. But this could still be "as is meant to be". One BB, 6 cruisers, 1 DD. 

 

Now, that is what I'd say happens when "playing a broken class". 

 

Its what happens when you Play an Overpowered Class.

As I said. It might be just a thing of Wording and Reference. But given that everyone here except you. Seems to Refer to this as Overpowered instead of Broken.

I would dare claiming its better if you just Conform to that Standard to avoid Misunderstandings.

 

If you care. I would actually say CVs are both Broken and Overpowered.

Because Broken to me simply means it doesnt work properly.

So the moment a Ship or Class is Overpowered. It also is Broken. Because thats not how it should be.

At the same Time however. Broken would to me also be the case when a Ship was Underpowered.

Because again. That would not be how it should be. Meaning it would be Broken.

Just in the other Direction.

 

Thats why in this Case I will Clearly Remain on the Reference of Overpowered for CVs. Because the Reason they are Broken is because they are vastly more Powerful than they should be.

 

 

 

 

And No. See that is the Difference.

If you only got 1 BB and 6 Cruisers. Then that BB brings something to the Table the Cruisers dont. But its not really overpowered.

7 Cruisers can still very well Win against 1 BB and 6 Cruisers.

Because that BB is still something that a Cruiser can Fight and Win.

 

1 DD is already more Difficult. Albeit this Example is a bit of a Handicap for the DD. Because against mostly Cruisers. And potentially Radar. The DD will likely be more of a weakness than a Buff.

But even assuming No Radar etc. The 1 DD in Team A. Would not be Capable of Drastically Changing the Engagement between the Cruisers.

If it was 6 BB and 1 DD vs 7 BB it would be Better for the DD. Because then the Team would have a Clear Advantage.

 

But 7 Cruisers vs 6 Cruisers and 1 CV ? I think we all know how that would End.

And thats the Importand Part.

Because now we have Removed that Mirror Matchmaking causing the Enemy to also get that Overpowered Ship.

So in this Case. Even a Complete Crab Player. Would likely still do way better than he would in a Normal Ship.

Because now the Enemy only has Standard Ships. Even if the CV Player is bad. He will Deal Damage. He will be Spotting. He will be messing up the Enemy Formation even if its Unintended.

The Enemy Cruiser just cannot do that.

So what happened. Is that by using the Overpowered Class. Your Power has Increased while the Enemies Power has stayed the Same.

Meaning that in this case the Overpowered CV will Outperform massively compared to the Results that Bad Player would Normally get.

 

 

But thats not how Random Works.

In Randoms. You got a CV. So Enemy also has CV.

Meaning that your Power has vastly Increased. But so has the Power of your Enemy. And if the Enemy gets a CV Player which is better than you. Then the Power of that Enemy has actually Increased more than your own.

So despite your Vastly Increased Power. Your Results can go Down.

[1MajorKoenig]

35 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Or dat idea of ship that spawns smoll reeing torp boats that fly around the map at 300mph.

Hmm a ship spawning S-Boats..?  

 

 

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Hmm a ship spawning S-Boats..?  

 

 

Was thinking of dem inflatable boutes, with a two torp tubes on it and a big engine at the back and a crew member flapping in the wind because of how fast it goes.

And its AI controlled so no thinking at all. Just jump in and go!

 

Makes me wonder how fast i could end the balans in this game if i got hired as lead game designer.

[BLUB__BLUB]

38 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

If you care. I would actually say CVs are both Broken and Overpowered.

Because Broken to me simply means it doesnt work properly.

So the moment a Ship or Class is Overpowered. It also is Broken. Because thats not how it should be.

At the same Time however. Broken would to me also be the case when a Ship was Underpowered.

Because again. That would not be how it should be. Meaning it would be Broken.

Just in the other Direction.

Finally someone who understands what I mean.

 

38 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Thats why in this Case I will Clearly Remain on the Reference of Overpowered for CVs.

...and which is why I will not. As it is something different than just broken.

Not saying that CVs aren't overpowered AND broken, I am sure some (maybe most) are. 

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

57 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

So the moment a Ship or Class is Overpowered. It also is Broken. Because thats not how it should be. 

I would rather say, that "overpowered" can be a balancing issue, what is not broken. Broken would be, like you say, something that doesn't work - thus a mechanic issue.

Something that is op can be balancing, just by changing stats. If it's broken, it could mean, that even stat changing would have no effect, because the mechanic doesn't work

 

I mean something can be op, because of a broken mechanic, though that something is broken, because it's op sounds weird.

[Pikkozoikum]

On 2/5/2021 at 2:12 PM, Lordcrafty said:

there's an option for animated small objects (or something like that) that got auto disabled for me at some point I think it animates secondaries at least, not sure about AA.

Oof, wrote about it and now they annouceed, that the AA guns will be animated soon

 

 

[Lordcrafty]

5 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Oof, wrote about it and now they annouceed, that the AA guns will be animated soon

 

 

nice to see that they act so quickly on feedback on the forums

[CptBarney]

6 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

nice to see that they act so quickly on feedback on the forums

Only took dem 6 years as well! New record! *plays celebration by kool n the gang*

[Pikkozoikum]

21 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Only took dem 6 years as well! New record! *plays celebration by kool n the gang*

probably my fault, since I didn't complained earlier about it

[HystericalAccuracy]

6 hours ago, FellRaven said:

I haven't seen his/her/there other videos or comments but I believe based on my own experience playing the game that this a fair assessment of CV Gameplay he summarises the issues very well.

And this is where my brain just went on contra. Have to admit I haven´t watched the video you linked and it might contain some truths, but I have seen a bunch of PQ´s content earlier and that´s enough for me to know how he sees the things. The guy seem to be a close friend of NoZoupForYou, a CC which .. erm .. has his own version of reality when it comes to Wows. I am ready to be corrected or confronted with different opinions but this is sad (or funny) to watch.

 

5 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Well, i agree with his CV video, but some of the other stuff he says... boy oh boy.

As I said above, here I might have shot the messenger before hearing out the message

Potato could have made a reasonable video and FellRaven´s suggestion to watch it is a good hint, but I am just done with this harsh separation of "BB good, rest bad" by biased CC´s and YTubers.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

1 hour ago, Lordcrafty said:

nice to see that they act so quickly on feedback on the forums

And also nice to see they concentrate on the important things...