General CV related discussions.

[arquata2019_]

1 minuto fa, DeviousDave02 ha scritto:

What I want to know is why does World of Warships Legends, (You know, the console version...), have BETTER models for the aircraft than we do?

  Nascondi contenuti

 

Every other developer on the planet "So we had to tone it down for the console version"

WarGaming "So in Soviet Russia...."

0_0

[CptBarney]

41 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

if i have to be honest, when i faced it it had pretty good aa (i was in midway)

I forgot about the bloody thing too be honest, it has very unusual turrets, i reckon it would of been a beast in ww2.

[guy_incognito79]

8 hours ago, Excavatus said:

I'm happy to say, that cure is in testing :) 

I'm sorry that I cannot talk about her.. but last night the enemy FDR was..

??? what happened to my planes? how did?? what??? what kind of a black wall was that?? how?? !!! 

May be he was a very bad player I don't know.. but It was fun to delete half a squadron in one big booom! :D

As much as I'd like to believe that, we all know WG will never let any mere surface ship have any kind of weapons to hurt the CV pidgeons.

 

All must drown in pidgeon sh!t, WG has decreed it!!!

[AndyHill]

I think Jingles and many others jumped the gun massively. The stuff I've seen about console carriers indicates strongly that people playing carriers or against them have no idea on what's going on - which is natural considering how new they are in the game. It even seems that a lot of the battles are played with mostly bots in them, which means that spotting is largely wasted and any effects on meta are minimal if not nonexistent. 

[Nibenay78]

15 hours ago, Excavatus said:

I'm happy to say, that cure is in testing :) 

I'm sorry that I cannot talk about her.. but last night the enemy FDR was..

??? what happened to my planes? how did?? what??? what kind of a black wall was that?? how?? !!! 

May be he was a very bad player I don't know.. but It was fun to delete half a squadron in one big booom! :D

So 95% of all ships are currently crap at AA, and to make people play new ships they get good AA? :P

[Deckeru_Maiku]

47 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

So 95% of all ships are currently crap at AA, and to make people play new ships they get good AA? :P

 

Great source for income for WG: Sell the poison first, then let the people buy the antidote... rinse.. repeat.. Vodka and Females of negotiable virtue aren't cheap.. not even in Russia (and all of it'f former appendixes).

[Nibenay78]

20 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

 

Great source for income for WG: Sell the poison first, then let the people buy the antidote... rinse.. repeat.. Vodka and Females of negotiable virtue aren't cheap.. not even in Russia (and all of it'f former appendixes).

Yeah, why aren't the old "AA ships" buffed into "painful levels" of AA? 

 

Des Moines, Worchester, Minotaur.. even Montana had good AA before. All of these ships can be pissed on by CVs.

 

[FellRaven]

17 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Yeah, why aren't the old "AA ships" buffed into "painful levels" of AA? 

 

Des Moines, Worchester, Minotaur.. even Montana had good AA before. All of these ships can be pissed on by CVs.

 

It seems that short and medium range AA only tickles now and only Flak seems to have any effect

[FellRaven]

I have removed all payment methods from my Account until such time as one of these happens:

 

• AA becomes effective when used properly for the majority of ships
• CVs are balanced against other Ships I'd say a T8 CV is currently equivalent to a T10 Surface Ship
• We get a NO CV option

 

If you introduce Subs to Random all bets are off. I encourage others to do the same.

[Lordcrafty]

I have returned from my time on the steam forums with gifts:
I think enough has been said.

[Nibenay78]

58 minutes ago, FellRaven said:

It seems that short and medium range AA only tickles now and only Flak seems to have any effect

That IS the idea after all. 

 

50 minutes ago, FellRaven said:

I have removed all payment methods from my Account until such time as one of these happens:

 

• AA becomes effective when used properly for the majority of ships
• CVs are balanced against other Ships I'd say a T8 CV is currently equivalent to a T10 Surface Ship
• We get a NO CV option

 

If you introduce Subs to Random all bets are off. I encourage others to do the same.

You never should have to begin with :D

That said I already wrote a rather negative steam review after the CV rework and will not encourage new people to play this game.

 

40 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

I have returned from my time on the steam forums with gifts:
I think enough has been said.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, Lordcrafty said:

I have returned from my time on the steam forums with gifts:
I think enough has been said.

 

What needs a Buff is the Average Brainpower in the Community.

Maybe then they will Realize that Midway isnt meant to Farm Damage on Rearline BBs....

[DeviousDave02]

6 hours ago, Lordcrafty said:

I have returned from my time on the steam forums with gifts:
I think enough has been said.

Yeah, I read that... was surprised TBH but said person who did say that tends to be a bit blind when it comes to CV's despite being more rational when talking about other ship classes.

 

The STEAM forums tend to be a hodgepodge of weird ideas and rumours from all the newbies and potatoes/casual players who hang out in it I find (as well as trolling, lot's and lot's of trolling). Like for example people claiming you get more accurate vertical dispersion during AP bomb drops and greater pen per bomb by dropping at max speed and last second during the dive (right as the planes level out) or that Torpedoes get more accurate the later in the attack run you drop them (so drop at 1 second left to have the torps stack on each other) or my personal favourite, ""you lose money for squadron shortening so don't do that or you'll never make a profit!!!"".

 

I gave up trying to fight miss-information there last year because for every argument you win three more people start shouting the same s**t or shout something stupider. It's like trying to put out a fire as more people pour Gasoline on it while others are throwing Molotov's about the place. 

 

(FYI, nice job roundhouse kicking the Hornets nest  In the time since you started posting I have seen more disgruntled potatoes and arguments than I have in the previous 2 months)

[Lordcrafty]

9 hours ago, DeviousDave02 said:

(FYI, nice job roundhouse kicking the Hornets nest  In the time since you started posting I have seen more disgruntled potatoes and arguments than I have in the previous 2 months)

what do you think I'm there for? I'm making a nice collection of quotes and screenshots and decided to after the first thread I was in.

9 hours ago, DeviousDave02 said:

The STEAM forums tend to be a hodgepodge of weird ideas and rumours from all the newbies and potatoes/casual players who hang out in it I find (as well as trolling, lot's and lot's of trolling). Like for example people claiming you get more accurate vertical dispersion during AP bomb drops and greater pen per bomb by dropping at max speed and last second during the dive (right as the planes level out) or that Torpedoes get more accurate the later in the attack run you drop them (so drop at 1 second left to have the torps stack on each other) or my personal favourite, ""you lose money for squadron shortening so don't do that or you'll never make a profit!!!"".

if you could point me to those or link them that would be nice.

[159Hunter]

37 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

If you could point me to those or link them that would be nice.

I second this honorable request

[DeviousDave02]

2 hours ago, Lordcrafty said:

what do you think I'm there for? I'm making a nice collection of quotes and screenshots and decided to after the first thread I was in.

if you could point me to those or link them that would be nice.

 

2 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

I second this honorable request

Will do, if I can find them again in the convoluted mess that is the STEAM forum UI.

 

edit* stuff I have encountered while hunting through for the above quotes

 

Spoiler

"From a player who plays CVs a lot, and often gets complimented for it, I say, with absolute confidence, that the players who complain about CVs, are the dumbest, solo-player oriented players I have seen." 

 

"They're only OP to him cause he's so good at them. They are definitely not OP. They don't even do as much damage as battleships, and, as a battleship, I've chased one down and sunk it a number of times." (referring to @El2aZeR btw)

 

"mine lex plane can not pass half field . They are all shooted down by dd.I even not find it"

 

"winrate doesnt mean anything.......pro players can meet thousands of ♥♥♥♥♥♥ players and have a low winrate and vice versa"

 

"Spotting DDs is a pathetic joke. Unless there is another ship nearby spotting it, my planes won't see it unless the planes are so close that I don't have enough time to line up and aim the ordinance. DDs just waltz up to my CV where it is, being so easy for my CV to spot, and the invisible DD just blows it away."

 

"the best players get around 74,000 average damage on the Midway, making it the worst t10 CV
[edit]
CV are well below BB for damage, but better than DD"

 

"Just had a match. I was playing T8 Implacable. Fully fitted. 10 skills commander. Tried multiple times to do 1 ( ONE ) ONE! ONLY ONE! attack run against a minotaur. COULD NOT DO EVEN 1! I SAID ONE! ONE ATTACK RUN! NOT A SINGLE ONE RUN. 0 DAMAGE DONE. ZEERROOO DAMAGE. Lost a lot of squadrons of all types. He was isolated. No help from anyone. No AA bubble share. Only his own AA. And I can't even approach him at full speed to do 1 attack run and all planes destroyed."

 

"That's the problem, the only way to play CV is fly around and wait a weack ship"

 

"why all the tier 8 cvs are weak??? when i atack one ship i die in 3 sec totaly ussles to play whit CV after tier 6 lots of time i put in this game to get tier 8 CV then i just die always"

 

"Why CV rocket can not shoot accurate and kill that 100 HP DD?" I believe this player was ranting after a bad match.

"I keep trying to use the dumbass rocket to kill any DD but those 2 DD killed the full hp Enterprise" same player.

 

"when using torpedo bombers, start attack run from 7-8 km range"

 

"SAIPAN CARRIER IS COMPETELEY USELESS, don't buy it.

against to x tier ships, saipan fighter is completely useless. All fighter already destroyed each time before you reach near to target.. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t... Completely useless ship and fighters.." (pasted as normal text due to the forum not liking STEAM post headers)

 

"pre dropping with hakuryu and shoukaku is annoying because those torps are counted as missed and credits are gone, but its worth to be able to play for more than 5 minutes (because if you send a full squadron every time, in 3 minutes you wont be able to do anything, and you know it)" (similar to the one I remember from the CV mega thread.)

 

"with torpedo bombers, it appears that the longer you run lasts, the highter the chance of torps spawning one on the other or jsut very near."

 

"the highter you drop, the better the disperion ( japanese-american bombs, when start a dive, 2 reticles appear, dropping in the moment the reticle has become 1 is perfect"

 

"slower tier 9 planes (for tier 10 carriers) may be better to hunt the op air concealment of dds, so that you can have enought space to do an attack run"

 

"1 flak can kill 8 planes" (snip of the full thing - TBF the rest of it was saying don't go yoloing in at the start of the match against AA Cruisers)

 

"I'm a hardcore ♥♥♥ CV player and I would never upgrade the X planes except for Torps."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit 2: Annoyingly the huge (about 12 pages - that's pretty big by STEAM standards) CV thread on STEAM seems to have been deleted where most of the weirder stuff was posted - I remember it was started back in late 2019 early 2020 with some guy claiming these CV "Truths and facts" (turned out to be his opinion) which were hilariously wrong and he listed a load of them which then got ripped into by anyone with common sense but he still tried to argue them while wanting CV's buffing.

 

Then other people got involved and just started posting their own weird "facts" about CV's (again opinions) and it turned into a massive s***show of people arguing and saying stupid things.

 

I remember having an argument with someone who claimed "Best way to play British CV's was to load up on all secondary skills, flags and Demo expert, use the LB's to burn an enemy ship and then go and smite it with your CV hull" but I can't find the post in my post history now which leads me to believe it's been deleted. :(

[UnderDuress]

I like those times when people try to defend CVs by reviewing “mistakes” that surface ships make, like that thread on the NA forums now. It usually just highlights there is no correct play against CVs.

 

People bunch up - no they should scatter so they are harder to find.

People don’t bunch - no they should bunch up to use AA

People try to rush CV - no they should have ran away so it takes longer to kill them

People move away - no they should rush the CV, they are so easy to kill once spotted

etc etc.

 

[Lordcrafty]

4 hours ago, DeviousDave02 said:

"They're only OP to him cause he's so good at them. They are definitely not OP. They don't even do as much damage as battleships, and, as a battleship, I've chased one down and sunk it a number of times." (referring to @El2aZeR btw)

I even had somebody say something similar to me when I was talking about CVs on there kekw.

[BuffaloBill18]

I've been away from the game for a couple of years and just came back.  One of my favorite ships is Ishizuchi tier IV.  Nowadays almost every game I go into there are two cvs.  This morning I had the highest AA rating on my team.  That would be a nine.  What is the logic behind putting ships with virtually no AA vs cvs?  It's no fun spending the whole game dodging aerial torpedos and bombs.  My suggestion is to limit the number of cvs to one or zero.  

[BLUB__BLUB]

12 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

I even had somebody say something similar to me when I was talking about CVs on there kekw.

That is kinda true if you consider OP and BROKEN AF two separate entities. 

OP would then be, that anyone can do fat damage or get high winrates in that ship. Better players would do better... maybe.

BROKEN would be that some people (who are actually good...) can use/abuse certain things, while others can not and do bad in it.

[Lordcrafty]

5 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That is kinda true if you consider OP and BROKEN AF two separate entities. 

OP would then be, that anyone can do fat damage or get high winrates in that ship. Better players would do better... maybe.

BROKEN would be that some people (who are actually good...) can use/abuse certain things, while others can not and do bad in it.

but really something being OP means that compared to it's peers it performs significantly better (achieves a higher WR) when the best plays are made. CVs are also broken in the meaning that their gameplay is currently poorly designed due to a lack of interaction between surface ships and CVs and CVs and CVs and the low skill floor and ceiling.

That's how I would define them.

[COPlUM]

35 minutes ago, Achtung_Wolfgang said:

I've been away from the game for a couple of years and just came back.  One of my favorite ships is Ishizuchi tier IV.  Nowadays almost every game I go into there are two cvs.  This morning I had the highest AA rating on my team.  That would be a nine.  What is the logic behind putting ships with virtually no AA vs cvs?  It's no fun spending the whole game dodging aerial torpedos and bombs.  My suggestion is to limit the number of cvs to one or zero.  

T4 is dead, the only things in T4 are

- CVs padding their stats
- Bots
- The occasional unfortunate soul who did not get the memo that T4 is dead

Its basically just CVs blowing up bots, T4 might as well be co-op, it mostly is.

If you like low tier, go even lower, no CVs there. Or go a little higher to T5/T6

[159Hunter]

25 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That is kinda true if you consider OP and BROKEN AF two separate entities. 

OP would then be, that anyone can do fat damage or get high winrates in that ship. Better players would do better... maybe.

BROKEN would be that some people (who are actually good...) can use/abuse certain things, while others can not and do bad in it.

According to your definition of OP no ship can ever be OP. As there will always be someone who will be utterly useless in it.

So I'd change anyone to something else.

[CptBarney]

1 hour ago, Lordcrafty said:

I even had somebody say something similar to me when I was talking about CVs on there kekw.

Breathing and thinking are now considered rare abilities in the human race.

[BLUB__BLUB]

54 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

but really something being OP means that compared to it's peers it performs significantly better (achieves a higher WR) when the best plays are made.

Not IMO, it will even Over Perform when a bad player plays badly. 
As in, it will still not die even though other ships in that situation die.

No matter how stupid, he'll do better in it than any other in which he is equally stupid.

 

Doesn't mean he does well or the best plays - he might still get average WR 30% and  crap damage. 

But it would be WR 20% and zero damage in others. 

 

54 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

CVs are also broken in the meaning that their gameplay is currently poorly designed due to a lack of interaction between surface ships and CVs and CVs and CVs and the low skill floor and ceiling.

Broken = not functioning as they should. Doesn't, as such, mean anything about skill floor etc. 

YES the carriers are over-performing, but that's not per sé "broken". It is also people (ab)using the broken stuff. 

The AA is also broken and can't say that this is overperforming. 

 

54 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

That's how I would define them.

Which is why I would not.

OP = Over Performing. No special techniques required, anybody will Over Perform in an OP ship (as it is relative to how they perform with other stuff). 

Broken = not working as intended. Can be abused by those in-the-know, if abusable. If non-abusable, well then it is just "ineffective result". 

 

26 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

According to your definition of OP no ship can ever be OP. As there will always be someone who will be utterly useless in it.

So I'd change anyone to something else.

Disagreed: Even an utterly useless player would do significantly better in them than he'd do in any other ship. 

Will he still be utterly useless? Probably. But he'll have the highest ever WR in that (like, 25%... and the rest he has 10%...).

Also, he actually has some damage in it (like 250XP average, rest he has zero). 

 

Also, good players will of course ALSO do better. Up to a point though, as you cannot kill more than the whole red team. 

 

Now here's the thing though - BROKEN stuff can be abused, and then perceived as being OP. 

I'm quite sure we all agree that CVs are BROKEN... but now, is a Graf Zeppelin OP, or just broken, at 48% WR?