General CV related discussions.

[Lordcrafty]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Wish they would animate the AA guns. In WarThunder they did that, and it looks awesome. I think that would be nice to see those single gun fires

 

there's an option for animated small objects (or something like that) that got auto disabled for me at some point I think it animates secondaries at least, not sure about AA.

[OVanBruce]

1 minute ago, Lordcrafty said:

for that to happen WG would need to buff CV air detection.

Excuse me, what? You saying that around 12km air detection for most tier X CVs is too stealthy?

[Lordcrafty]

Just now, OVanBruce said:

Excuse me, what? You saying that around 12km air detection for most tier X CVs is too stealthy?

buff not nerf lol, buff doesn't literally mean increase you know.

[Pikkozoikum]

9 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

there's an option for animated small objects (or something like that) that got auto disabled for me at some point I think it animates secondaries at least, not sure about AA.

My secondaries are animated, I think there no animation for AA fire, only the shell tracers

[Lordcrafty]

22 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

My secondaries are animated, I think there no animation for AA fire, only the shell tracers

they should go back to how AA was during the rework testing, that AA was beautiful. Even more cosmetic only than now too :issou

[CptBarney]

the forums atm.

 

[Nov_A]

Mhm, aha, whatever.

 

Can we discuss Kaga now?

[DFens_666]

7 hours ago, Lordcrafty said:

I couldn't resist responding. I have issues

 

When people write "weak CV" in any forum related to wows, their game should be swapped against "hello kitty island adventures" just because they are so freaking dumb

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, OVanBruce said:

A CV can be permaspotted the whole match as long as the oponent CV goes out of his way to drop an interceptor squad on the air detectability range of said CV, it's not difficult. The only reason CVs don't do it often is because CV snipes by surface ships is usually ineffective.

Well it might happen a lot more, because when I go hunt BBs in the FDR, usually I find that the CV is out in front of the BBs now. 

Not that it will make much difference, half of the games end in a five-minute-ROFLSTOMP anyway.

[Pikkozoikum]

11 hours ago, Lordcrafty said:

they should go back to how AA was during the rework testing, that AA was beautiful. Even more cosmetic only than now too :issou

The AA mechanic was the same, just some parameter were different like the number of explosion and the distance. But ot be honest, the distances were crap from the design, when some explosion could be shot 100 meter in front of the ship. With explosion only on long range it feels more clear and logical. I still think they should change the click-burst damage to manual fire, that the player can aim one barrage of flak on it's own. That would be fun

 

Imagine you activate DefAA, you have a full Flak build, and then you aim well and shoot a full barrage into the squad with 10k damage.

 

I mean, it would be really fun, though would also need a lot balancing. But if this is effective, we could lower the cont. DPS component, and shift the major damage source to the manual aim

[Sunleader]

11 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Wish they would animate the AA guns. In WarThunder they did that, and it looks awesome. I think that would be nice to see those single gun fires

 

 

Well. In War Thunder. These AA Guns are not just Animated. They basicly work like Secondaries in WoWs.

Meaning they are Fully Modeled and Fully Functional.

Actively Firing on Enemy Aircraft in Range.

 

Wish we would get that here indeed.

[Pikkozoikum]

5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Well. In War Thunder. These AA Guns are not just Animated. They basicly work like Secondaries in WoWs.

Meaning they are Fully Modeled and Fully Functional.

Actively Firing on Enemy Aircraft in Range.

 

Wish we would get that here indeed.

yes, though the War Thunder AA is quite broken. Unlike in real life, where you have weather and wind, adrenalin, a harder aiming technique and especially less battle experience, in this game the AA is quite accurate. Especially the battle experience, people play 100s and 1000s battle with mouse aiming. That makes it way to accurate, though you don't even need manual AA, the automated is good enough^^

 

 

[Sunleader]

4 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

yes, though the War Thunder AA is quite broken. Unlike in real life, where you have weather and wind, adrenalin, a harder aiming technique and especially less battle experience, in this game the AA is quite accurate. Especially the battle experience, people play 100s and 1000s battle with mouse aiming. That makes it way to accurate, though you don't even need manual AA, the automated is good enough^^

 

 

 

Yes and No.

Actually. In Terms of Technical Issue. AA and Aircraft Damage etc etc. Is very Realistic. And not Broken at all. Especially in Simulated Battles were Vision is Curtailed Accordingly.

 

The thing is. A Game is very Different from Reality.

 

In Reality you didnt have this case of there being a Single Aircraft Flying towards a Destroyer. It was usually at least a Squadron.

And this Squadron would often Fire its Machineguns at you. Meaning that many of the Machinegunners would not be able to just Calmly and Accurately keep Firing at you.

 

Likewise of course. In Reality your Vision and the Weather was often much worse for a Pilot. It was much harder to make out and accurately approach the Target.

But most of all. In Reality what was on the Line was your Life. So Pilots in Reality wouldnt Fly this Crazy Close to the Ship to Drop their Bomb on the Deck on such a Close Distance that they often end up Blowing their Own Wings out if they Forgot to Set the Bombs Delay....

 

 

Thanks to that. The whole thing gets Warped of Course.

 

[CptBarney]

19 hours ago, Nov_A said:

Mhm, aha, whatever.

 

Can we discuss Kaga now?

no.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

no.

didnt he say that same thing before and asked to discuss Graf pepelin? or is it a deja vu? 

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

didnt he say that same thing before and asked to discuss Graf pepelin? or is it a deja vu? 

Might of been both. Both are weird anyways. One likes peppers and watching things burn. The other stands there t-posing over the pagodas...

Think you made song about one of them i think.

[Lordcrafty]

12 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The AA mechanic was the same, just some parameter were different like the number of explosion and the distance.

no, flak used to spawn at different altitudes I think. so it actually had a 3d effect instead of just being on the same plane as the aircraft.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Yes and No.

Actually. In Terms of Technical Issue. AA and Aircraft Damage etc etc. Is very Realistic. And not Broken at all. Especially in Simulated Battles were Vision is Curtailed Accordingly.

 

The thing is. A Game is very Different from Reality.

That's not the point, I was talking about the broken laser accurate AA.

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

In Reality you didnt have this case of there being a Single Aircraft Flying towards a Destroyer. It was usually at least a Squadron.

And this Squadron would often Fire its Machineguns at you. Meaning that many of the Machinegunners would not be able to just Calmly and Accurately keep Firing at you.

I think you actually had that. I saw footage of single Kamikaze planes, which got shot. Though they were often pretty close.

Were you ever on a gun range? Try to hit something ~1km away. And now imagine that target is 300-500 km/h fast.

In War Thunder you get constantly shot from high ranges. Technically they need to add more miss-aiming of the npc-gunners.

 

If it's only the "you don't have a single plane" issue is, then every plane should spawn with 2-3 npcs planes.

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Likewise of course. In Reality your Vision and the Weather was often much worse for a Pilot. It was much harder to make out and accurately approach the Target.

But most of all. In Reality what was on the Line was your Life. So Pilots in Reality wouldnt Fly this Crazy Close to the Ship to Drop their Bomb on the Deck on such a Close Distance that they often end up Blowing their Own Wings out if they Forgot to Set the Bombs Delay....

I actually use realistic altitudes. mostly approach arround 3-4km, and diving and releasing the bomb around ~600-1200m. But the AA is dangerous way earlier. Though the Dive is mostly my death, if it's not a super aa-weak ship

 

It's of course only a game, but the AA-plane interaction there is also quite broken. Actually the naval mode itself is not the best.

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

35 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

no, flak used to spawn at different altitudes I think. so it actually had a 3d effect instead of just being on the same plane as the aircraft.

The 3D effect is only a show on side of the surface ships. For the CV those were always on one level walls

[1MajorKoenig]

On 1/22/2021 at 7:16 PM, Zuihou_Kai said:

I'm planning to do more in depth tests on Midway in the future 

How is your experience with the air superiority build? 
 

I am currently experimenting with a second US CV captain alternatively to the standard build and look more at a A-2-A build (mostly for Enterprise and Midway I would assume).
 

However I find the AA skills rather expensive and rather situational, especially Interceptor (is that the one for 3 pts?) - and I even dropped that one as it removes spotting from the fighters. 
 

Not sure if this build is going anywhere but as respeccing is for free it doesn’t matter if not.

 

Do you use it at all?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

I'm not playing enough lately to judge yet

[El2aZeR]

4 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

However I find the AA skills rather expensive and rather situational, especially Interceptor (is that the one for 3 pts?) - and I even dropped that one as it removes spotting from the fighters.

 

If you're dropping Interceptor you've essentially just made your fighters even more useless in air-to-air than before since they get despawned much faster by enemy fighters.

Any player that isn't capable of doing that isn't a player worth defending against in the first place.

 

I've played against a number of fighter build CVs without Interceptor so far. They're even more worthless than your usual fighter spamming potatoes.

[1MajorKoenig]

45 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

If you're dropping Interceptor you've essentially just made your fighters even more useless in air-to-air than before since they get despawned much faster by enemy fighters.

Any player that isn't capable of doing that isn't a player worth defending against in the first place.

 

I've played against a number of fighter build CVs without Interceptor so far. They're even more worthless than your usual fighter spamming potatoes.

Yep that is exactly the issue. Although the whole AA build doesn’t feel exactly convincing. 

[Sunleader]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:04 PM, Nov_A said:

Mhm, aha, whatever.

 

Can we discuss Kaga now?

 

Huh ?

What do you want to Discuss about me ?

 

 

 

Kaga is Primarily a Damage Dealer.

 

When I Play her. I Generally have to Targets. Keep enemy DDs Spotted and Attack them whenever they dare going Forward.

And otherwise throwing my Massive Numbers of Torpedo Bombers and HE Bombers at Enemy Cruisers and Battleships which Dare Occupying a Forward Position or Pushing Forward.

 

Your Rockets are not Strong enough to Kill Enemy DDs Fast. As such while you should still make sure to Spot and Attack DDs. It is Generally not Adviced to Actively Hunt DDs constantly.

Instead only Spotting them on Regular Basis to keep your Team aware of their Positions. And Attack them when they move Forward and thus Pose a Threat to your Teams Battleships.

 

Your Torpedobombers are your Primary Weapon of Choice. Because you got Plenty of them. And they Hurt. In Fact. Thanks to their Large Number. You can Outheal a Catapult Fighter. Meaning you can Fly right through an Enemy Fighter and do 2 Drops despite him as long as you Correctly Time your Heal.

 

Your HE Divebombers have 2 Jobs. The First being your Choice of Disposable Damage Output. Because they Regenerate Fast and can do Decent Damage to pretty much any Target.

And Second being your Follow Up for Torpedo Bomber Strikes. Because against Larger Targets like Battleships. They are fairly Reliable at causing Fires.

They can also be used against Destroyers. Albeit that is a bit of a Gamble. Because after WG Changed the way DB Bombs Fall last Year. They no longer tend to have at least one Bomb land Accurately on the Center.

Not sure that was Intended or just a sideeffect of the Mechanic Changes... But it caused Kagas HE Bombs to become much less Reliable against DDs.

 

 

The Build I have for Kaga is this.

 

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PJSA518&modules=11111&upgrades=121310&commander=PCW001&skills=1672008&flags=479&consumables=11&pos=0

 

Yes. I use a Secondary Setup. Because Kaga while having Shortranged Secondaries. Does actually have a Decent Amount of them. And they Hurt DDs.

Which often causes them to be a Surprise for an Unsuspecting Enemy Approaching you.

 

I do the same for Hakuryu by the way. As it as well has quite Decent Secondaries. Which are more than enough to be a Huge and Unwelcome Surprise to any DDs that tought it was a Good Idea to Rush Closer to you to Kill your Aircraft as they Land/Takeoff

 

 

So.

Standard CV Build for extra HP and Reduced Continues AA Damage. As well as Extra Speed for the Aircraft and better Regeneration of Aircraft.

Then

Your Primary Weapon is Torps. And Kaga has Torps that have quite a long Arming Distance and are fairly Weak in Alpha Damage.

So they Profit Greatly from Reduce Torpedo Arming Distance and Reduced Torpedo Protection. And having the Heal Buffed for your Torpedo Bombers as well as giving an Extra Heal will also be useful for Lategame as Kaga tends to have the Reserves to actually use the Extra Heal even if the Game goes the Full 20 Minutes.

Finally.

The Secondary Skill which gives extra Range and Accuracy to your Impressive amount of Secondary Guns.

 

Modules are mostly along that line too.

Return time and Engine Boost Buff for the First two.

Then the Secondary Module cause I dont use any of the others anyways. I dont need Torp speed that just increases Arming time. And I dont need Aiming Extension time cause Torpbombers already can go very long and for rockets its often more annoying than useful.

Torpedobomber HP Increase cause they are the Strongest Weapon of Kaga.

And Finally the Extra Aircraft and Aircraft Regeneration.

 

 

Pls note. Thats my Build. Its not Forcibly the Meta Build or Agreeing with Everyone.

Yosha for example tended to go for Concealment. To make his Squadrons harder to Spot from a Distance. Giving his Attacks more Surprise effect and thus harder to Dodge as well as making it easier to Spot Targets without being Shot at.

 

 

6 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That's not the point, I was talking about the broken laser accurate AA.

 

I think you actually had that. I saw footage of single Kamikaze planes, which got shot. Though they were often pretty close.

Were you ever on a gun range? Try to hit something ~1km away. And now imagine that target is 300-500 km/h fast.

In War Thunder you get constantly shot from high ranges. Technically they need to add more miss-aiming of the npc-gunners.

 

If it's only the "you don't have a single plane" issue is, then every plane should spawn with 2-3 npcs planes.

 

I actually use realistic altitudes. mostly approach arround 3-4km, and diving and releasing the bomb around ~600-1200m. But the AA is dangerous way earlier. Though the Dive is mostly my death, if it's not a super aa-weak ship

 

It's of course only a game, but the AA-plane interaction there is also quite broken. Actually the naval mode itself is not the best.

 

 

 

Nope. That is actually Perfectly Historical Accurate.

 

Anti Aircraft Guns. Just like Anti Tank Guns. Had a very high Firing Velocity. And thus a very Straight Trajectory and a very high Accuracy.

This is especially True for the Close Range Air Defence Weapons like the 20mm Machinecannons.

 

You dont need a Shooting range for that. Because thats about the Technical Values.

 

 

What you mean is the Ability of Aiming of the Gunner. Which makes it Hard to Spot and Aim for a Target Incoming.

And as I said. That is the thing.

 

In the Game. You are a Player. You Control these Guns using your Mouse. Pointing at a Target. You dont need to worry about Dying because your Life is not in Danger. Neither do you need to somehow Coordinate Firing on 5-7 Aircraft Approaching you while they Fire Machineguns at you. And most of all. You dont need to crouch and Aim through an Oversized Reticle while also trying to keep the Gun Pointing towards the Enemy in Autofire.

Or alternatively for one of the Stationary Guns. You dont need to turn 2 Handcranks to Aim the Gun and then lean onto your Foot to Push it onto the Trigger.

 

 

 

 

In WarThunder. If you want to Bomb a Ship. I recommend following the Historical Attack Patterns by the way.

Because they work in Warthunder.

Meaning you Fly at higher Alt till your still a bit in Front of the Target. Then Descend onto the Target. But not Aiming Directly for it with your Descent. Instead you either Aim your Aircraft before the Enemy Ship into the Water. Or behind it into the Water. Only adjusting your Aim towards the Ship once you actually Plan on Bombing/Firing on it.

 

The Reason is that if you Fly Straight for the Ship. You end up being an Completely Unmoving but constantly Growing Dot in the Enemies Sights. And thus an Easy Target.

Instead you need to move at an Shifted Angle so that the Enemy has trouble actually Firing at you.

 

 

 

 

But again. Thats mostly down to Human Factors Game vs Reality.

The Accuracy itself is pretty much Historical.

And dont get me wrong. But what many People underestimate. Is just how much Ammo is Missing them.

At higher Ranges. Most people wont notice they are being Fired upon already. Because unless a Tracer comes close. They barely see it.

In alot of Cases. When I check my own Ship. My NPC Gunners Spend Several Thousands of 20mm Shells Shooting at a Single Aircraft before they Finally Shoot it down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

If you're dropping Interceptor you've essentially just made your fighters even more useless in air-to-air than before since they get despawned much faster by enemy fighters.

Any player that isn't capable of doing that isn't a player worth defending against in the first place.

 

I've played against a number of fighter build CVs without Interceptor so far. They're even more worthless than your usual fighter spamming potatoes.

 

To begin with. From some Testing its pretty obvious that not using that Skill makes the Fighters rather Impotent at anything but Scaring the Enemy CV.

Because even tough they last longer than the Interceptors. The added Reaction Time means you cannot actually Force the Enemy CV into taking losses.

Because your Fighters need to always be Dropped over an Allied Ship to have any Effect.

Which means the Best Outcome you can hope for is that you cost the Enemy CV a bit of Time to Switch Targets.

 

The Interceptors meanwhile can Actively be Dropped onto an Enemy Squadron. Causing Direct Damage to the Enemy CV as he not only loses that Strike but also loses Strike Power for Future Strikes.

 

 

[Nov_A]

8 hours ago, CptBarney said:

no.

yes.