General CV related discussions.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

8 minutes ago, Dreadnought_Rose said:

@Zuihou_Kai 

Are you sure that this fighter build makes sense? Because as far as I've seen, even FDR planes can escape as soon as a fighter is placed directly on you. If you call back directly, that's no problem. I met a Haku myself today in ranked who tried this skill. I was in a Midway. It was annoying, sure, but it didn't bother me much. Finished the round with 180k and won. I tend to see the points as a waste. With which CV should it be worthwhile in your opinion (next to Enterprise as I see in the screenshots) And what do you do when your fighters are all out?

it makes sense. You can't escape if it's placed correctly. You can't really run out of fighters because you get extra charges. The other skills one would take are only a small bonus CVs can live without as they did before cpt rework. 

Every CV can pick this playstyle up (talking t10) except for FDR. The most sense it would make on Midway because boosting midway torps is not recommended and 5% faster DBs is meh. 

 

You likely met a player who just isn't good enough. This skill is dangerous because you can't tell if enemy fighters are interceptor skilled or not until it's to late and when it's to late you either lose planes/ recall and lose the inniative. 

 

Will not discuss this to deep about it in this topic because I want to suprise a few people with the build first before it becomes popular. 

 

 

The interceptor skilled CV has large enough fighter radius that if the enemy planes don't react immediately and with full boost they will always be caught. 

Compared to normal fighter who needs 10 seconds after spawning before they Tag the interceptor build only needs 8 in total with a larger area of patrol. 

 

Interceptor fighter also can't be cheesed. 

 

I won't say more. Any CV player worth anything will immedietly understand how powerful this is

[1MajorKoenig]

3 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

it makes sense. You can't escape if it's placed correctly. You can't really run out of fighters because you get extra charges. The other skills one would take are only a small bonus CVs can live without as they did before cpt rework. 

Every CV can pick this playstyle up (talking t10) except for FDR. The most sense it would make on Midway because boosting midway torps is not recommended and 5% faster DBs is meh. 

 

You likely met a player who just isn't good enough. This skill is dangerous because you can't tell if enemy fighters are interceptor skilled or not until it's to late and when it's to late you either lose planes/ recall and lose the inniative. 

 

Will not discuss this to deep about it in this topic because I want to suprise a few people with the build first before it becomes popular. 

 

 

The interceptor skilled CV has large enough fighter radius that if the enemy planes don't react immediately and with full boost they will always be caught. 

Compared to normal fighter who needs 10 seconds after spawning before they Tag the interceptor build only needs 8 in total with a larger area of patrol. 

 

Interceptor fighter also can't be cheesed. 

 

I won't say more. Any CV player worth anything will immedietly understand how powerful this is

On which CV line are you trying that build?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, 1MajorKoenig said:

On which CV line are you trying that build?

I'm planning to do more in depth tests on Midway in the future 

[GoTTa_Sm4ShDTr4sH]

 

Vor 38 Minuten, Zuihou_Kai sagte:

it makes sense. You can't escape if it's placed correctly. You can't really run out of fighters because you get extra charges. The other skills one would take are only a small bonus CVs can live without as they did before cpt rework. 

Every CV can pick this playstyle up (talking t10) except for FDR. The most sense it would make on Midway because boosting midway torps is not recommended and 5% faster DBs is meh. 

 

You likely met a player who just isn't good enough. This skill is dangerous because you can't tell if enemy fighters are interceptor skilled or not until it's to late and when it's to late you either lose planes/ recall and lose the inniative. 

 

Will not discuss this to deep about it in this topic because I want to suprise a few people with the build first before it becomes popular. 

 

 

The interceptor skilled CV has large enough fighter radius that if the enemy planes don't react immediately and with full boost they will always be caught. 

Compared to normal fighter who needs 10 seconds after spawning before they Tag the interceptor build only needs 8 in total with a larger area of patrol. 

 

Interceptor fighter also can't be cheesed. 

 

I won't say more. Any CV player worth anything will immedietly understand how powerful this is

I could see it, because what interceptor cant do is attack youre own fighters or your fighters them. So this is easy to see. And the interceptor gets also spotted ( they also have a diferent symbol on the minimap) , so how should you place them correctly? Or you using normal fighter  with just the  " Focused" skill? And  can you also just still predrop to avoid such risk, or does this also not work? Im pretty new to CV play so, any  advice is welcome.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 minutes ago, Dreadnought_Rose said:

 

I could see it, because what interceptor cant do is attack youre own fighters or your fighters them. So this is easy to see. And the interceptor gets also spotted ( they also have a diferent symbol on the minimap) , so how should you place them correctly? Or you using normal fighter  with just the  " Focused" skill? And  can you also just still predrop to avoid such risk, or does this also not work? Im pretty new to CV play so, any  advice is welcome.

It's a bit more complicated. Add me on Discord or join my server with your forum name so I can explain it to you in detail.    https://discord.gg/gTcRAgS8

[BLUB__BLUB]

 

[ghostbuster_]

5 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

For 5 skillpoints (AR doesn't count, you take it anyway) You get 45% better AA on every BB : 10% from AAGunner + 25% from EAAM + avg 10% from AR
For 6 skillpoints (AR doesn't count, you take it anyway) You get 55% better AA on every CA : 20% from AAGunner + 25% from EAAM + avg 10% from AR

Many complain about CVs, I complain about CVs, but you lose the right to complain about CVs if you don't buff your AA by 45%-55% for 5-6 skillpoints

Funny enough, the people who claim that AA is fine right now, who tell us fairytales about how strong AA is if you build for it, were the people who didnt spec their captains for AA before the rework when AA was working. When we had insane AA, enough to shut down the enemy CV completely. 

5 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I've been messing around with full AA builds on many ships, they are viable again, so use them if you hate planes, it's not difficult, the option is there.
People gave up even trying to shoot down planes years ago, but with these AA builds (and picking DefAA instead of Hydro for the first time in years) it actually works.
 

I have been using DefAA on all of my cruisers until CV rework.(except clan battles since there were no CVs in CBs back then.) And it was working perfectly. On some cruisers even semi AA builds were enough and i dont remember CVs being a problem for me when i was in a cruiser. DefAA was only useless if you got baited like a complete utter potato.

Right now, after the rework i mean, there is absolutely no f. reason to take DefAA instead of Hydro. None. AA is just worthless. 

[ghostbuster_]

3 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

This forum will never cease to amaze!

 

First twey complain for ages that skilling into AA does have too little impact 

 

When it does - they complain about the (almost offensive) need to invest skill points (!)

 

 

THIS IS AWESOME! That’s showbiz!

I wonder if you were saying this before the rework too... when AA was actually a thing and did something.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

30 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

 

His build is crap and he plays like crap, please ignore this video

[Capra76]

3 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Everyone should, not taking it was stupid before, it's double stupid now, most powerful skill in the game for every ship in the game.

 

Really?  More powerful than concealment expert, or RPF, or superintendent, or firefighters, or last stand, or survivability expert (for DD), I seriously doubt that.

 

It's a max 20% reload buff, which is nice, but to get that you're dead anyway so you'll get very little use out of it, ideally I'd like to get a 0% buff out of it.

 

Finally, it's the exact same skill as pre rework, how does it being more expensive now make it doubly stupid?

 

 

4 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

"Planes are bad, I hate planes, but I also can't be bothered to grind for the solution so I'll just complain instead"

 

Can we grind in games without CV in them?  No, then what's the point of that post?

[BLUB__BLUB]

24 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

His build is crap and he plays like crap, please ignore this video

Yeah I do not really see the point he is trying to make there. 

[Sunleader]

11 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yeah I do not really see the point he is trying to make there. 

 

He is trying to use a Build without actually doing anything to Adjust his Game

He is Basicly just Playing Normally while using that Build of his. He is mostly not even trying to use the Fighters.

Only towards the very End he actually Starts using the Fighters. And even then he Completely Prioritizes Damage Farming.

 

Honestly Said. He was Pretty Lucky there. He nearly Threw that Game at least Twice for his Team. Only RNG and Luck preventing him it.

 

 

After which he then Dismisses the Fighter Build as mostly Useless.

Its basicly like I went for an HE Spamming Build on a Cruiser and then only Used AP the entire Game except maybe 2 Exchanges where I fired on a DD or something lol.

Afterwards Saying. Oh Yeah. HE Build is Useless it didnt Help me at all lol

 

 

 

I am currently Considering how I want my Fighter Build to Look.

 

I think my First Test will be this.

 

 

The Idea being that I will Drop Fighters on my Team for each Squadron I send out.

Keeping a Large Part of my Team Locked off from the Enemy CV.

Likely on Purpose Choosing the Same Flank as him so that the Enemy CV is Forced to either Relocate or constantly Fly to the Far Flank for himself if he doesnt want to Incur Losses on each Drop.

 

 

 

After that I will Check if I get to 20 Points and Replace the Fire Chance Buff with the Skill that makes Fighters React Faster.

To Test a more Aggressive Playstyle. Where instead of just Locking off Areas to the Enemy CV. I will basicly Drop Fighters Actively into his Face to Catch his Squadrons or Force him to Recall.

 

The Area Midway can Cover with Skills is about 9.5km in Diameter.

So with the Full Fighter Build it Should actually be Possible to Drop Fighters when they are about 2-3km away. Thus them being not just inside your Fighter Area already but also not being Able to just Fly through you anymore.

Ending up Forced to either Recall or do a 180 Degree Turn to Boost out to the Sides/Rear before taking the Long route around.

 

 

 

Of Course wether that will Actually work is a Different Issue.

Especially if this kind of Build becomes more Common and thus CVs Expect you to Drop Fighters thus not Crossing your Squadrons anymore in the First Place.

 

But that remains to be Seen.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

20 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Ending up Forced to either Recall or do a 180 Degree Turn to Boost out to the Sides/Rear before taking the Long route around.

not even that works :D only recall or lose all 

[BLUB__BLUB]

27 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Ending up Forced to either Recall or do a 180 Degree Turn to Boost out to the Sides/Rear before taking the Long route around.

I did that a lot already, usually taking their fighters over my teammates... 

The 6thing i always ask myself, how come those video dudes always manage to get all torps in.

I get that maybe 10%. Rest of the time they turn, and maybe 2 or 3 hits. Dammit. 

 

It is not like I do not know the tricks. Skip over island, with dropping sequence already started.

Then you can drop the one that has parked behind it, OK that works. Other way around works as well.

However they seem to hit 90% on moving ships and I just cannot do it, somehow. 

[CptBarney]

9 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

not even that works :D only recall or lose all 

You trying to take over the world again poshyanai?

[BLUB__BLUB]

Well, doesn't seem like much of a difference to me so far... 

100K and a win for Ark Royal inT6-7-8. Not that special.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[hairy_poppins]

On 11/6/2020 at 12:25 AM, Lordcrafty said:

carriers may have disproportionate game impact but if it's effecting your game on such a significant level you need to change something in your play. "newish CV power and behaviour" and "buff" is a bit funny when they've taken major nerfs after the rework and with the rework (of course they're not balanced but still better than just after the rework). At the end of the day AA isn't really for protecting your ship it's for the plane management minigame of the CV, it's not really going to be visible to you how AA is effecting the match unless if you're massively huddled as in your example since it just doesn't defend you, it means that the CV player doesn't want to keep losing the same planes... AA is there to shoot down planes not prevent strikes, otherwise they would give players some sort of shield xD, you also can't expect to just be able to nullify the CVs attacks on your own that would be pretty silly. The issue lies not in AA, although I think that redistributing and reworking AA so that it's better spread out across ships and classes and so that singular AA means more and grouped AA less would help start fixing a lot of issues if they want to keep the current AA model.

edit: Also, when do you notice when a carrier doesn't want to strike you because of your AA/positioning? They just choose a better target instead.

Ok but I am in favour of realism. 3 major issues.

 

1. When an attack run is begun, AA hardly ever influences the number of bombs or torp's dropped. Yes I see the plane count go up but it has no effect on that run against you. AA should particularly affect the drop as those aircraft are approaching closer.

 

2. Carriers were incredibly fragile in real life, in particular to fire ie HE. They get privileged protection from HE and fires with no real penalty.

 

3. Now I am a noob so this may not be correct, carriers appear to never run out of planes?

 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

5 minutes ago, hairy_poppins said:

Ok but I am in favour of realism. 3 major issues.

 

1. When an attack run is begun, AA hardly ever influences the number of bombs or torp's dropped. Yes I see the plane count go up but it has no effect on that run against you. AA should particularly affect the drop as those aircraft are approaching closer.

 

2. Carriers were incredibly fragile in real life, in particular to fire ie HE. They get privileged protection from HE and fires with no real penalty.

 

3. Now I am a noob so this may not be correct, carriers appear to never run out of planes?

 

 

#1 - WG decided that it was not very funny for the potato "controlling" the attacking planes to suddenly lose them to flak/AA, so losses are not taken from the attacking planes, but from those circling above and please f*ck reality...

 

#2 - WG decided in it's infallible wisdom (gained by consuming the proper amount of vodka) that CV players shouldn't be bothered having to press some buttons to stop stuff like fires, flooding or whatnots, so they made that part automatic. And to not have CV potatoes have interest in their ships, WG made sure that fires that can't doused immediately don't burn really long, because sicrit russian blueprints of all CVs ever been built showed them clearly being supposed to be made of asbestos and reality is to get f*cked a bit more, but WG can't keep the CV potatoes playing CVs if they aren't at least a bit OP...

 

#3 - they can. If there's a really, really, REALLY potatoish potato on it's helm that plays the funny game of "gotta catch all those nice black clouds appearing in front of my planes". Then he will run out of planes after about half the battle.. And come to the forum to whine about all that nasty AA...

[El2aZeR]

4 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

Any CV player worth anything will immedietly understand how powerful this is

 

Is it though? In the end, sure, you may have defended your teammate against the CV, but often he will just die to something else a minute later because average player skill is just that abysmal. Meanwhile if the enemy drops a fighter over a lone target that you need to take out you cannot despawn it too, meaning for no investment he can actually play the same defensive game as you are because you have excluded yourself from the ability to do anything about it. It's also not necessarily in your best interest to always be active on the flank the enemy CV is active at. And finally there are too few CV players that are dangerous enough that you would need to defend your team against them quite frankly.

 

Thus given the fundamental basics of the rework I still see no use for a fighter build compared to a fully offensive one given that it will always be far more situational and thus lose more matches comparatively. Even if it does work perfectly in one match where you win because of it, you may lose 3 in return because your offensive potential was lacking.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

And finally there are too few CV players that are dangerous enough that you would need to defend your team against them quite frankly.

 

This. 

 

I will not waste my time going after the planes of some potato CV in Randoms at least... 

[Sunleader]

Yes.

That Issue is the Biggest Worry I ultimately have on this kind of Build too.

 

You are Focused on taking Influence away from the Enemy CV.

And I do think you can actually take more Influence away from the Enemy CV than you lose yourself by spending Skills abd Time on Fighters.

 

But that only wirks if the CV you Focus. Actually has Influence.

If he isnt a Good Player. You will Spend time Ruining his Game.

But you are also Busy. And when You were already the way better CV anyways.

The other CV might just not have had enough Influence for you to take away from him that it Covers for the reduction in your own Influence.

 

 

 

In General. I am surprised @Zuihou_Kai
Would go for this.

 

A Fighter Build in an Average Random Match effectively Aims to Reduce CV Influence on Spotting and Damage.

Of course in the Hope that the Enemie CVs Spotting and Damage is reduced far more than yours.

Giving your Team a Spotting and HP Advantage.

 

But this Strategy means that your Personal Influence is actually Reduced. While the Influence of your Teammates is Increased.

 

 

 

This is Generally much more aligned to my Playstyle of Harassing Enemies to Prevent them from reaching Good Positions First or Breaking up their Positioning.

Thus allowing my Team an Advantage they can use to Win.

 

 

But its absolutely not aligned with Yosha who usually follows a Playstyle of outright Crippling or Destroying the Enemy Team so his Team will Win even if they go for a Brainless Slugfest exchange.

 

In Fact. Yosha usually frowned on me over that. Because it limits how much you can carry when you dont have at least a few Decent Players to actually use the Advantages you give them.

 

[Pikkozoikum]

9 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

He is trying to use a Build without actually doing anything to Adjust his Game

He is Basicly just Playing Normally while using that Build of his. He is mostly not even trying to use the Fighters.

Only towards the very End he actually Starts using the Fighters. And even then he Completely Prioritizes Damage Farming.

 

Honestly Said. He was Pretty Lucky there. He nearly Threw that Game at least Twice for his Team. Only RNG and Luck preventing him it.

 

 

After which he then Dismisses the Fighter Build as mostly Useless.

Its basicly like I went for an HE Spamming Build on a Cruiser and then only Used AP the entire Game except maybe 2 Exchanges where I fired on a DD or something lol.

Afterwards Saying. Oh Yeah. HE Build is Useless it didnt Help me at all lol

 

 

 

I am currently Considering how I want my Fighter Build to Look.

 

I think my First Test will be this.

 

 

The Idea being that I will Drop Fighters on my Team for each Squadron I send out.

Keeping a Large Part of my Team Locked off from the Enemy CV.

Likely on Purpose Choosing the Same Flank as him so that the Enemy CV is Forced to either Relocate or constantly Fly to the Far Flank for himself if he doesnt want to Incur Losses on each Drop.

 

 

 

After that I will Check if I get to 20 Points and Replace the Fire Chance Buff with the Skill that makes Fighters React Faster.

To Test a more Aggressive Playstyle. Where instead of just Locking off Areas to the Enemy CV. I will basicly Drop Fighters Actively into his Face to Catch his Squadrons or Force him to Recall.

 

The Area Midway can Cover with Skills is about 9.5km in Diameter.

So with the Full Fighter Build it Should actually be Possible to Drop Fighters when they are about 2-3km away. Thus them being not just inside your Fighter Area already but also not being Able to just Fly through you anymore.

Ending up Forced to either Recall or do a 180 Degree Turn to Boost out to the Sides/Rear before taking the Long route around.

 

 

 

Of Course wether that will Actually work is a Different Issue.

Especially if this kind of Build becomes more Common and thus CVs Expect you to Drop Fighters thus not Crossing your Squadrons anymore in the First Place.

 

But that remains to be Seen.

The problem with the fighters is the same like a DD with a smoke. A DD can't just smoke every ship, that right now could need one. The DD has to be there.

The CV is of course faster, but still has the issue to be in the right spot. So the Fighters can't be used 100% efficient all the time.

 

I personally trying this build currently with Shokaku:

 

 

The 3 point doesn't seem too much worth it. Trading spotting capability for fighter vs fighter immunity is not 2 points worth (+1 point for 10% radius). I rather want other skills for that.

 

I also use the module for 50% more consumable duration, thus the fighter last longer and can still be used for denial. Though I have less plane capacity

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

None of the influence is lost if you don't play the fighter build as a dedicated fighter build. But the influence of the enemy CV will certainly be reduced if you intercept even just his very first and then 3 more strikes during the match. 

 

The fighter build doesn't let you take the torpedo belt reduction skill and additional small utility increases the CVs were fine without before and not having them now makes all CVs just as good as they were before cpt rework. 

Having those interceptors opens up ways to annoy the hell out of skilled CV players because they either won't see it coming or they will play more carefully when your planes are around. 

 

 

Also you can play as the match requires you and simply strike the enemy as you could before. Only the spotting of them is gone which was not useful in randoms anyway because the team you had to carry wouldn't shoot at those targets anyway.

 

I wouldn't build that fighter build for randoms on Shoukaku/Haku   but in CB it will certainly be used. 

[Pikkozoikum]

9 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

None of the influence is lost if you don't play the fighter build as a dedicated fighter build. But the influence of the enemy CV will certainly be reduced if you intercept even just his very first and then 3 more strikes during the match. 

 

The fighter build doesn't let you take the torpedo belt reduction skill and additional small utility increases the CVs were fine without before and not having them now makes all CVs just as good as they were before cpt rework. 

Having those interceptors opens up ways to annoy the hell out of skilled CV players because they either won't see it coming or they will play more carefully when your planes are around. 

 

 

Also you can play as the match requires you and simply strike the enemy as you could before. Only the spotting of them is gone which was not useful in randoms anyway because the team you had to carry wouldn't shoot at those targets anyway.

 

I wouldn't build that fighter build for randoms on Shoukaku/Haku   but in CB it will certainly be used. 

But you still don't need the interceptor skill? It gives 10% radius and fighter vs fighter immunity. Doesn't looks very worthy

I use the 4 point skill, because that can be kinda useful, if you place it right in front of an enemy.

With my build I have the torpedobelt reduction and the ap bomb dmg.

Though the torpedobelt reduction is missleading for many. This doesn't add 10% to the total dmg. It doesn't add 10% to the torpedo dmg. Only the it ignores 10% of the torpedo belt. That the condition

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

you need it because it let's your fighters tag 2seconds faster but you can do whatever honestly. It's 3 days after patch. We will see how the meta develops. You will remember my post once the first 50% pepega CV with my build will ruin your first takeoff with an interceptor build because you won't see it coming and by that time it's to late to react :D