General CV related discussions.

[Pikkozoikum]

4 minutes ago, Farheim said:

... because?...

I actually had once a proposal how to design the CV, that DDs and CLs are counter ships to the CV. To be more precise, to be a counter against the CVs spotting ability. Though it was too complex for WG and the majority

[El2aZeR]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I take the second statement. I'm not saying, that CV has no dmg, but the total average damage is not telling the truth about DPM or the power.

 

We know from experience that CVs are the most effective and thus best damage dealers by far.

[tocqueville8]

On 1/7/2021 at 12:04 AM, NotSellingMyLinkies said:

So about German CVs, I'm currently grinding them but those enemy DDs are a real pain.

I've been trying to torp them over and over with no luck.

Does anyone have a video or something on how much i should lead my torps for the best chance to score a hit?

However much you're leading by, it's not enough: lead more.

Also, start your attack run blind if you think the DD is coming towards you, otherwise there won't be enough space for both the plane run and the torps to arm. It gets better with the Parseval: 3 torps at once, and sometimes 2 of them are so close they're very hard to pass in between.

[tocqueville8]

6 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

2 minute video of how I like to move through the map, skip first 30seconds

 

https://youtu.be/2NGecTblyCE

Between the weeb stuff and the sped-up replay, that sounded...

 

...why don't you take a seat over there?

[tocqueville8]

On 1/19/2021 at 10:55 AM, UnderDuress said:

No idea what you are trying to say. Are you saying a ship type can only have a set amount of influence and somehow all ships of the type can only add up to the same amount? So 1 BB or 4 BBs has the same influence but with 4 BBs each player has 25% of it?

Not quite, but sort of.

There are many tasks in this game that some classes do much better than others: kiting with HE, Dev Striking with AP, radaring caps, stalking&torping BBs, capping stealthily and stern-in to avoid torps, finishing off low-hp enemies, spotting a cluster of enemies with fighters, etc.

 

If, say, you're one of 3 radar cruisers on your team, you can sink without the team losing too much of the ability to radar a given cap. In fact, radar cruisers are often redundant, at least at high tiers. Likewise, you might have a Soyuz and an Alsace sitting in the same square, about equally able to Dev Strike a broadsiding cruiser.

But with CVs, there's usually only 1, so if it's a bad player those things the CV does best (finding DDs, spotting, finishing wounded enemies, nuking stationary cruisers...) will get done poorly, for sure.

 

It's sort of like multiplying by zero: the team can be solid in other respects, but if the CV is incompetent, you'll have zero (well, low, anyway) of that strategic capability.

 

Because in some circumstances the game is really unbalanced (how do you deal with an Asashio in a BB, if you have no spotting and no hydro, but you have to sink it? Or how do you deal with a Tallinn in an Asashio, during a cyclone...?), you want your team to be at least decent at everything, so that whatever the problem someone will be able to do something about it, and the lone CV is the first place where the MM can screw you.

 

The other place, imho, is bad DD captains in games with few DDs.

Earlier tonight I had a match in the Pepsicola, Two Brothers, T8. Our Monaghan (torpedo build) overextended on the flank and got sunk by a Loyang, while our Oland and Lightning (big brain division) spent the first 7 minutes deciding whether they actually wanted to rush the middle. They did not, but it was too late. The CV was okay, but we had too little spotting on either flank for most of the thing, and it wasn't pretty.

 

Cruisers are mostly for support, so even if your team got the bad ones you don't lose as much, strategically.

BBs...well there's usually a lot of them, so they're less of an issue imho, though some just don't understand crossfire, and especially if they're in the same div they tend to cuddle together...

 

Overall, CVs are the most susceptible to imbalanced matchmaking.

[tocqueville8]

On 1/19/2021 at 2:02 AM, Farheim said:

I'm sorry, if you play a dd your opinion is discarded.

Out of curiosity, why don't you play DD? They're an exciting class...

[Pikkozoikum]

33 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

We know from experience that CVs are the most effective and thus best damage dealers by far.

I'm not talking about best or worst damage dealers. The major statement was, that the total average damage of CVs is maybe not that good to compare with other ship types, especially in terms of dpm.

 

What kind of distribution of damage do you get, if a ships has a very high survival rate and high average total damage

What kind of distribution of damage do you get, if a ships has a low survival rate and high average total damage

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, tocqueville8 said:

Out of curiosity, why don't you play DD? They're an exciting class...

I play them and they are exciting, but I also play only IJN and those torps can be frustrating ^^

[Farheim]

25 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

Out of curiosity, why don't you play DD? They're an exciting class...

Not my type of gameplay.

[ghostbuster_]

6 hours ago, Farheim said:

I'm sorry buddy I'll just have a laugh at you and then I'll let you go and live in your delusions.

HAHAHAHAAHA

 

Okay, off you go.

Good for you. After all ignorance is bliss.

[ghostbuster_]

4 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

Out of curiosity, why don't you play DD? They're an exciting class...

Love it when people call a ship OP wihout playing that ship. In this case without playing the class. This says everthing about that guy 

[Nibenay78]

14 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

It's not just out the window it's a massive desaster. 

All stealth builds are not viable anymore. You know how amazing it was to be stealthy in shoukaku? Now that concealment is gone. It's terrible. My whole playstyle is not viable anymore 

 

7 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

sadly for you I only lose a particular and mostly unoptimized playstyle and lucky for me I know how to play the other, optimized playstyle which is still more than viable. 

So yes... it's just like all your shops when a CV is in the game but actually no 

 

So first your entire playstyle is gone, but then its ok because it's not the optimized one? 

 

I thought that we play because it's fun-and-engaging™ and losing the playstyle we enjoy is not a positive addition to the game for said player. If the most optimized playstyle in the game was to reach A1 first, and doing this increased ones chance to win massively - I'd not call that fun and engaging gameplay even if doing so would provide a very viable way to win.

 

Not only that, in the case of BBs (and most surface ships), they are effectively denied playing in the most optimized way (flanking, setting up crossfire, sneaking up on poor unsuspecting broadsides, etc) because this means splitting up or going alone. Actions that are usually punished severely by the CV and even more so when it's just a few ships doing this, because they become the obvious targets both for CV and often for the rest of the enemy team. High risk, high reward manouvers are pretty much just high risk when a CV is around.

 

I'm happy for you that you still have a non-fun but viable playstyle left. As you said yourself, the rest of us doesn't really.

 

Edit: clearly the people who enjoy sitting at 20km+ flinging HE at each other in various BBs can enjoy their blob and style of play! 

 

 

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

 

 

So first your entire playstyle is gone, but then its ok because it's not the optimized one? 

 

I thought that we play because it's fun-and-engaging™ and losing the playstyle we enjoy is not a positive addition to the game for said player. If the most optimized playstyle in the game was to reach A1 first, and doing this increased ones chance to win massively - I'd not call that fun and engaging gameplay even if doing so would provide a very viable way to win.

 

Not only that, in the case of BBs (and most surface ships), they are effectively denied playing in the most optimized way (flanking, setting up crossfire, sneaking up on poor unsuspecting broadsides, etc) because this means splitting up or going alone. Actions that are usually punished severely by the CV and even more so when it's just a few ships doing this, because they become the obvious targets both for CV and often for the rest of the enemy team. High risk, high reward manouvers are pretty much just high risk when a CV is around.

 

I'm happy for you that you still have a non-fun but viable playstyle left. As you said yourself, the rest of us doesn't really.

 

Edit: clearly the people who enjoy sitting at 20km+ flinging HE at each other in various BBs can enjoy their blob and style of play! 

 

 

 

 

You really need to calm that anti CV Spiel. 

You can play CV different ways. Obviously parking CV as close to action as I do risking the hull every single game is not the objectively good and competetive way to play it. 

That doesn't mean Im not capable of playong it the correct way which isn't compromised at all by the commander changes so meh. 

 

Yes its less fun, but that doesn't take away from the fun of well you know... collecting salt of enemy players by dominating the game. 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

9 hours ago, Farheim said:

... because?...

Because!

See, I can also - at least try to - "discuss" like a six year old..

But I won't. I know that followers of the "Trump-ish Alternate Facts School of Unreasonable Reasoning" don't anything for true that doesn't fit into their limited mindset.

So continuing this would be a) useless and therefor b) a waste of time.

You probably think now that You "won" this "discussion". IDGAF.

[DFens_666]

10 hours ago, Farheim said:

... because?...

 

... WG says so themselves

[El2aZeR]

10 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I'm not talking about best or worst damage dealers. The major statement was, that the total average damage of CVs is maybe not that good to compare with other ship types, especially in terms of dpm.

 

What kind of distribution of damage do you get, if a ships has a very high survival rate and high average total damage

What kind of distribution of damage do you get, if a ships has a low survival rate and high average total damage

 

Which is ofc utterly irrelevant given that we know CVs are the best damage dealers in the game.

[snadge666]

Flambass has a new video out which showcases just how OP FDR is.

[CptBarney]

@El2aZeR new song you can play in the background when playing any world 13 level in azur lane.

 

Well, more of vid but flamby sings it most of the time anyways lol.

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, snadge666 said:

Flambass has a new video out which showcases just how OP FDR is.

It is, sort of - if the reds have many stupidos then yeah really. 

If they have some smart ones then not so much. You'll still overmatch the red CV in damage.

But possibly you will not be that influential, which is most depending on the reds though.

 

For example:

I've met a Stalingrad who insisted on parking next to an island and staying there. 

Unfortunately, he had so much distance between himself and the island, that FDR could drop torps in between.

So, fly over island (unspotted), drop torps... 8 hits... rinse and repeat. Stupidoooooo!!!

 

Another game, reds had a Wooster and a Shima... knew the Shima was there, I saw him smoke up.

So, I took out the torpedo planes. Meanwhile the Wooster shoved himself (unspotted) into the Shima smoke. 

Imagine my shock, the whole plane-squad dead (LMAO though). Smartyyyyy!!! 

 

And is FDR OP?

Well... depends. Of course it is still broken AF. All CVs are. But the planes aer slow. Really slow. You can (and usually will...) eat FLAK. 

The squads are just too big to avoid it all. And due to the speed (lack of it) you get many many more FLAK clouds than other CVs.

Then again... if you are decided tyo hit something, you will. Because no amount of FLAK can kill them all. You will face consequences though.

The regen is slow. Once a whole squad is lost, it will not be back that soon (compared to other CVs). So if you decide "worth it" (or are just stupido), you'll suffer. 

And then there is that 25 sec pause, in which you have to "loiter" (if you can find a safe place) or return and fly your slow butt out again. 

 

But can it do really sick damage? Yes. If you are any good and the reds are suckers. 

But if your team isn't any good and the reds are kinda savvy... enjoy... 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, CptBarney said:

Well, more of vid but flamby sings it most of the time anyways lol.

That is a good example of what FDR is like. FARM HARDER. 

He found a lone DM trying to hide behind island - does lots of damage to him. 

And drops one load on Yamato (has about worst T10 BB AA in game).

 

Notice that he does have six bomber-planes left after that... so he takes torpedo planes. 

He goes to torp the Yamato that is bowtanking a Salem, bit too far from the island.

Now he can drop torpedoes in between, and he does. He has 3 planes left by the time he can drop again. 

That is however plenty to finish off the Yamato. BTW he has now regained 2 bombers, and 12 torpedo planes left. 

 

However he goes for the rocket planes to farm a BB, which happens to be ARP Yammy (has bad AA for starters, fire kills off all AA).

ARP Yammy doesn't move much... ah well. meanwhile the Halland sneaks up on him, he is lucky to kill it (his CV half dead). 

That is with help from his teammates, if they had been more tater (or him somewhat unlucky, or Halland better...) 

he'd have been dead (and we'd not get to see it).

 

he now has to clean up the Wooster... note that from the full squad only 1 plane gets torps off. 

And the Wooster beaches himself... but still manages to kill the Kremlin. And he lived, too. 

 

The end result, yes he farmed almost 200K and 1229XP. I'd say that Salem almost matched him. 

The red Midway got almost 1600XP, so that is around 800 without the win bonus. 

That red ARP Yamato got more XP (1360 without win bonus) than the Great Flamibino.... LOL. 

 

What you can clearly see is that FDR no doubt farms the hardest.

But even a good player can't pull a win in a 7 vs 7. So... ehh... IMO other CVs are still better.

Certainly in 12vs 12, he'd have run out of planes, tadatadatadatada black clouds indeed. 

There would have been less room for him to spend the 25 seconds, too. 

 

 

 

 

[Farheim]

7 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

You probably think now that You "won" this "discussion". IDGAF.

Not really, I just laughed my [edited]off at that misplaced political reference on a game forum

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 hours ago, Farheim said:

Not really, I just laughed my [edited]off at that misplaced political reference on a game forum

you are edgy but I like you. You are providing much needed entertainment and you piss off certain people.... pls continue

[El2aZeR]

11 hours ago, snadge666 said:

Flambass has a new video out which showcases just how OP FDR is.

 

Broken, sure. OP? Meh, a Midway or Haku could have actually won that imo.

[Aixin]

Vor 3 Stunden, El2aZeR sagte:

 

Broken, sure. OP? Meh, a Midway or Haku could have actually won that imo.

A better played fdr aswell. He is not managing his planes well and loses way to many. 

[Excavatus]

3 hours ago, Aixin said:

A better played fdr aswell. He is not managing his planes well and loses way to many. 

Does not matter. 

FDR does not have the map control and game influence that midway / haku has. 

And lest accept that drop on halland was a very lucky one.. 

and yet FDR still lost.. 

 

I agree with @El2aZeR

A midway or haku would win that way more easily..