General CV related discussions.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

6 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

In cumulation with the Legendary, it could have made Adacious somehwat interesting to play at least. Guess that's out of the window...

It's not just out the window it's a massive desaster. 

All stealth builds are not viable anymore. You know how amazing it was to be stealthy in shoukaku? Now that concealment is gone. It's terrible. My whole playstyle is not viable anymore 

[Stormhawk_V]

7 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

It's not just out the window it's a massive desaster. 

All stealth builds are not viable anymore. You know how amazing it was to be stealthy in shoukaku? Now that concealment is gone. It's terrible. My whole playstyle is not viable anymore 

Oh no, the class that sits behind an island all game and doesn't even have to pick one it can shoot over loses concealment! Why, oh why is this world so cruel?

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

22 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

You know how amazing it was to be stealthy in shoukaku? Now that concealment is gone. It's terrible. My whole playstyle is not viable anymore 

 

How will a concealment difference of less than 2km change your whole playstyle though, considering how fast planes cover that distance?

 

Personally, I hate the buggy autopilot too much to get really close before the late game anyway...

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

How will a concealment difference of less than 2km change your whole playstyle though, considering how fast planes cover that distance?

 

Personally, I hate the buggy autopilot too much to get really close before the late game anyway...

 

 

I play very close and cap very often. Sometimes I'm so close to enemy ships that if they turned towards me for just 10 seconds full speed they might spot me. 1km concealment more is... huge for that playstyle considering Shoukaku had no armor or guns to fight back. 

 

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

3 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

I play very close and cap very often. Sometimes I'm so close to enemy ships that if they turned towards me for just 10 seconds full speed they might spot me. 1km concealment more is... huge for that playstyle considering Shoukaku had no armor or guns to fight back. 

 

Well, I was using CE too, but as I don't go for caps until late game, it mostly just means I will have to cover 1-2km more distance with my planes.

[Aixin]

Vor 1 Stunde, Zuihou_Kai sagte:

NOOOOOOOOOOO  I WANTED TO USE THIS SKLL TO STEALHY STEALTH 

 

WG U AND ME ARE AT WAR NOW 

 

YOU TAKE AWAY MY ZUIHO, YOU TAKE ASAY MY STEALTY SHOUKAKU 

 

NOW I'M MAD

LOL it's true I knew it for about a month now but Noone wanted to listen. I am with you with that opionion tho. 

[Sunleader]

I am more Interested in the Buff to AA Skills for Cruisers.

 

45% Continues AA Damage Buff just from Skills Is quite considerable.

Addint the Modules to it.

A Cruiser can get about 70% plus additional Flak plus Faster Sector.

 

I wonder if Mino may become Scary again.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 hour ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

Well, I was using CE too, but as I don't go for caps until late game, it mostly just means I will have to cover 1-2km more distance with my planes.

2 minute video of how I like to move through the map, skip first 30seconds

 

https://youtu.be/2NGecTblyCE

[GaCommanderGice]

As 6884 reply's searching for me is undoable here's my question :)

 

As of circa two months i joined the cv world and i was wondering which unique captain was best putted on cv's.

I now have Gunter Lutjens on my Mvr and would like to know what to put on my Enty which i love, as i can think of other cv's in the tech trees though.

Pls help, would be much apprieciated  o7

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 minutes ago, GaCommanderGice said:

As 6881 reply's searching for me is undoable here's my question :)

 

As of circa two months i joined the cv world and i was wondering which unique captain was best putted on cv's.

I now have Gunter Lutjens on my Mvr and would like to know what to put on my Enty which i love, as i can think of other cv's in the tech trees though.

Pls help, would be much apprieciated  o7

 

 

My opinon would be that they aren't needed to be put on CVs. There is so little improvement gained by captains that it just doesn't make a difference if you have them or not on CV

[BLUB__BLUB]

7 minutes ago, GaCommanderGice said:

As 6881 reply's searching for me is undoable here's my question :)

 

As of circa two months i joined the cv world and i was wondering which unique captain was best putted on cv's.

I now have Gunter Lutjens on my Mvr and would like to know what to put on my Enty which i love, as i can think of other cv's in the tech trees though.

Pls help, would be much apprieciated  o7

I have the Russian Icehockey Dude with One Tooth on the US CV. 

What's his name... Ovechkin. 

 

9 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

2 minute video of how I like to move through the map, skip first 30seconds

 

https://youtu.be/2NGecTblyCE

LOL. I do that kind of stuff all the time. Granted, it doesn't always end well. 

Sometimes I screw it up... but it still is funny as hell.

Spoiler

 

 

[Nov_A]

Just now, GaCommanderGice said:

As 6881 reply's searching for me is undoable here's my question :)

 

As of circa two months i joined the cv world and i was wondering which unique captain was best putted on cv's.

I now have Gunter Lutjens on my Mvr and would like to know what to put on my Enty which i love, as i can think of other cv's in the tech trees though.

Pls help, would be much apprieciated  o7

 

 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Unique_Commanders

 

Yamamato, Cunningham, Lütjens, Halsey and Ovechkin provide a bonus to at least one CV related skill, plane speed or restoration time, of nations which can be currently used. The Rong captains for Pan-Asia also have a bonus with the upcoming Saipan copy.

 

Overall, their bonus is rather small and it is up to you to decide if you rather get them on a regular ship or a CV. Cunningham provides the best package (lel) with a passive skill and easily achievable conditions built around the RN CV playstyle. USN has Halsey and the Confederate condition, but his passives are definetly more focused towards cruisers. Yamamoto has the biggest bonus, but requires a Kraken and is yet again more suited for anything else than CVs. Ovechkin's bonus is very small and makes little to no difference.

 

Like others previously said, their bonus is rather small and often cuts out a lot they would offer on regular surface ships. Cunningham is good but requires you to play RN CVs.

 

I have them on CVs, but I dont play a lot of surface ships anyways.

[ghostbuster_]

4 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

Just answer him this circus is getting boring. 

Answer is pretty obvious. You know potatoes ask for buffs for ships, which they cant make work, they call ships OP if they get smacked by them and dont know how to deal with them and ofc defend actuall OP ships despite having 0 valid argument if they like to play them. 

And ofc those potaoes are like brick walls. They dont understand a thing no matter how many people try to explain the situation.

I dont think we need an answer. First claim gave us all the answers we needed.

[Farheim]

30 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

potatoes ask for buffs for ships, which they cant make work, they call ships OP if they get smacked by them and dont know how to deal with them

You sure won't mind if I quote you on that everytime I see a whiny potato crying about CVs being op?

[Pikkozoikum]

10 hours ago, UnderDuress said:

Yes indeed, the fact that CV are are basically able to deal out BB tier damage all game with no risk to itself is a hilarious piece of game design.

First of all, CVs originally meant to be high damage dealers, but that's not the point. I'm talking about, that the "total average damage" is misleading for CVs, compared with other ship types.

DO they have that average damage, because they do sometimes High damage, and sometimes low damage and get a good average?

Do they have that average damage, because they always live long?

 

I take the second statement. I'm not saying, that CV has no dmg, but the total average damage is not telling the truth about DPM or the power.

 

If we would play a football game.  The rules are, we start alone in the center, then you can run to the goal and score a point. Then you take the ball back to the center and can go for the next goal

You and me now compare our goals. I'm pretty bad in Football, no idea how good you are, lets you are way better than me.

We do multiple games, but I get 10 Minutes every game and you get every second game 5 minutes, else 10 minutes.

 

We could assume, that you do 1 goal / 30 s, I do 1 goal / 35s

 

Do you think, you perform better in average, when you get every game only 5 minutes? And that's the point I want make. I can be worse, but still get average results, just by this time fact. I'm still a bad football player^^

 

10 hours ago, UnderDuress said:

To get a high survival rate in a surface ship you would have to play a lot more conservative, most likely loose a lot more games and probably not even deal a lot more damage from having to play a lot more conservatively in the first place.

No, that's not what I meant, and not sure, how to explain it. It was purely hypothetical, just to make clear the difference of average total damage and actual damage potential.

The CVs damage is more consistent, while the BBs damage is more fluctuating (Mostly duo it's inflexibilty and surival duration), just recently I watched a video of Flamuu with ~300k damage in Vermont.

 

You could say: Yes, it's a problem, that BBs have to risk their HP, that can be a point, but that is not in conflict with my statement.

 

Just going by one match of Flamuu

Imagine we have this 300k damage BB in the match, but also a 50k damage BB, he wasn't even a bad player, just got killed in a unlucky way or heavy suprise focus or what ever.

The average for BBs is now 175k, way lower than the 300k of the good BB.

Lets add two more BBs. One does 150k. The other 90k, because one survived longer, the other lost, the other didn't even played bad, just his team died so fast, and he tursted on his team mates.

New average damage of BBs:  147k

 

Now we look at the two CVs, they could be average players, who survive until the end. One CV does 180k and one does 150k. The average is 165k

(The "best" CV FDR with the 10% best players have an average around ~160k, MvR has 140k for the 10% best players)

 

The CVs have the higher average Damage than the BBs, but also: The BBs have the higher damage. Most BBs just couldn't use the potential power.

That's what I just want to make clear, that this has to be considered.

 

 

[Nibenay78]

4 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

All stealth builds are not viable anymore. You know how amazing it was to be stealthy in shoukaku? Now that concealment is gone. It's terrible. My whole playstyle is not viable anymore 

Just like all my ships when a CV is in a game...

[Pikkozoikum]

35 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Just like all my ships when a CV is in a game...

Weird, I make a lot use of the stealth of DDs even against the CV. If a CV passes a DD by ~4-5 km, then the DD is not spotted and stays concealed. ^^

But also, I could say the same about DDs, when I play BBs/Cruisers or even ships like Hayate^^

 

Also it's a difference, if you talk about a Class and their mechanics, or about the change of a class duo the captain skills ^^ Imagine they would remove concealment mod and skills from DDs :D

 

But to be honest, I liked concealment in Steel Ocean more, then in WoWS

[Nibenay78]

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Weird, I make a lot use of the stealth of DDs even against the CV. If a CV passes a DD by ~4-5 km, then the DD is not spotted and stays concealed. ^^

But also, I could say the same about DDs, when I play BBs/Cruisers or even ships like Hayate^^

 

Also it's a difference, if you talk about a Class and their mechanics, or about the change of a class duo the captain skills ^^ Imagine they would remove concealment mod and skills from DDs :D

 

But to be honest, I liked concealment in Steel Ocean more, then in WoWS

And when he doesn't, you're blipped on the minimap and most likely that has a noticable impact on the situation. However in BBs its pretty much pointless to try stealthy moves, but then again, it's better gameplay to stay bow on and in the blob.

[ghostbuster_]

3 hours ago, Farheim said:

You sure won't mind if I quote you on that everytime I see a whiny potato crying about CVs being op?

Potatoes do defend CVs tho. Its super unicums and top CV players who state that CVs are broken. 

 

Havent seen that many bricks for months here. Side effects of holidays i guess.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

14 hours ago, Shinayan said:

Hi!
Inspired by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPkAiapYHg4
Decided to post a thread and add a few ideas and thoughts of mine.
Got a few ideas on my own also inspired by others that comment here, so first thx to all of you <3
1. When we start a game, we are loading ammo, torps etc, planes should be done same way - you start preparing the planes on the deck and they are off after 2 mins or so. Early spotting problem solved.

2. Idea in progress: When planes are starting you can see them on radar where they appear >> This way either CV should become visible for a 1 second (not enough to target unless waiting for this) or less hardcore version - updated position on minimap.

3. Altitude change: + high, spotting on minimap only (immune to AA dmg) + medium, spotting on minimap and NONTARGETABLE spotting - low dispersion on shots vs those (like blind shots where you know where the ship is, but invisible); planes get more consistent damage and flacks + low, attack altitude for torps and rockets (planes get more critical damage) + clouds that could act like smokes for planes, prevent vision and gives concealment. Clouds often are close or on some vast area, battles could be in 0-100 % cloud cover divided by 25% stages. Sometimes scattered, sometimes bigger area. Thunderstorms can hit planes too - rng based and planes should have problems while navigating in those (low speed, shakes that turn more or less the plane a bit in some direction)

4. Defensive AA consumable puts you in manual charge of AA guns for the short period - 10-20 sec, 5-6 consumables per game. Short time is good so you can skip 1 shot of main guns, but you can still control ship. You will shoot continuous damage after cursor all the time and fire flacks using LMB.

5. Like the idea of starting planes only on cruising speed - they rly need that initial speed to take off.

6. Fuel? - limited time in the air of a squadron, or limited total distance traveled: if you use a lot early game, later you will have just for close range raids. Surface Ships loos HP, CV's use fuel for flights. Additionally or separately: boosting use 100% more fuel while gliding saves 50% while dropping speed.

7. Altitude addon & range upgrade: There is an effective ground and ceiling range in AA guns, some random https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_Flak_18/36/37/41 gun has effective fire range 15km fire range for ground and 8 km for ceiling. AA bubbles could be much bigger in that way, but also damage could scale from almost non existent far away to 100% at close range and 75% at very close range (above). This does not exclude PvE though.

8. #4 + #7 AA can be automated for low damage and switched to manual for high damage. If you are flanking with a CV, mostly you are focused and only thing you focus on is planes. Manual controlled AA would be fighting actively back and thus not being a juicy target. There should be possibility to shoot down full squadron by a good player when you don't need to focus on main guns yet. Could also be consumable dependant.

9. Chance of an attacking plane to be destroyed, not only the "backup" planes of the squadron. That would be also a way to mitigate some damage.

10. Preparation of planes - starting early with 3 planes ready of each type, but slightly improving the restoration rate. To focus early game either on scouting or just low harassment.

 

,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-., FOR CV's:

1. They could enjoy more active fight vs player manual controlled AA (evading shells or flack wall)

2. Cloud would be an extra environment that they could use for surprise attacks and more in depth tactics in general

3. Fuel or time based flight will need more planning how to effectively utilize planes in combat.

3b. Possibility to select number of planes in a squadron by 1-4 steps (1-4 attack runs) to select tasks: more on spotting or save "fuel" in small harassment attack early game, more decisive attack runs later on.

4. Full squad attack - attacking with full squadron at the same time, but with low accuracy or/and higher damage taken (something like panic mode, but with a risk of loosing full squad due to damage)

 

#1 - it was kind like that when there were the real - RTS - CVs... but WG decided for the reework, that CV players needed have to have fun right from the start of the battle, with out the need of getting a ship into position or waiting 30 seconds for guns reload - or 2 minutes for torpedoes getting ready... tells you a lot about WG and about the average CV player...

#2 - and that would help how? Watching the minimap gives enough hints about the position of the enemy CV already..

#3 - too complicated for the average CV potato. So the number of players going for CVs would go down and WG could no longer call the reeework a success. Which isn't the russian way.

#4 - manual AA is about the utterly dumbest idea.. might work for an BB, but cruiser and DDs have no spare time left to dodge shells and doing their stuff AND manually shoot at the planes

#5, #6. #7 and #8 - see #3

#9 - sounds interesting... but see #3.. at least the result of losing some % of damage

#10 - see #1 and #3 with "lower damage - lower number of players - but reework must have been a success... - wait more two weeks - trust the plan... *cough*

 

For CVs:

#1 - the last thing that the potato CV players would enjoy would be to have to dodge more or better flak... so -> less players -> WG unhappy... yadda yadda...

#2 - WG does no tactical depth. That would just make the skill gap even bigger. And stop people (= potatoes) playing CVs... oooh... look, that came unexpected, right?

#3 - really? Do I have to spell it AGAIN why stuff like that is no option for WG?

#4 - could be interesting AT LOW TIER (where it isn't needed...) but would turn out extremely exploitable at high tier... and too complicated etc. etc. etc.

 

Soo.. yeah, nice ideas. As nice as tons like them that had been delivered to WG by better people than you and me in the test phase for the reeework. And all got ignored by WG. And will. Because mommy WG knows best...

 

9 hours ago, Farheim said:

CV is a counter to DDs and is supposed to kill them more often and easier than anyone else.

Sorry, but that is utter ox feces.

CVs got rocket planes, because CV players whined about being not able to defend at DDs with torps or bombs in the "test phase" of the Reeework.

So because of whiny potatoes WG decided an unbalanced weapon that turned from "the last defense" into the "crap on them again and again and again until they barf"...

 

CVs were supposed to be the solution for the island hugging / spawn camping problems, as they were supposed to be able to farm the single ships camping in the back. Too bad, that potato CV players are not able to dodge BB Flak and instead go for crapping on DDs with rockets... easier target, easier damage, easier XP...

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Just like all my ships when a CV is in a game...

sadly for you I only lose a particular and mostly unoptimized playstyle and lucky for me I know how to play the other, optimized playstyle which is still more than viable. 

So yes... it's just like all your shops when a CV is in the game but actually no 

[Farheim]

29 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Potatoes do defend CVs tho

I'm sorry buddy I'll just have a laugh at you and then I'll let you go and live in your delusions.

HAHAHAHAAHA

 

Okay, off you go.

[Farheim]

26 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

CVs got rocket planes, because CV players whined about being not able to defend at DDs with torps or bombs in the "test phase" of the Reeework.

So you think that rockets are the main reason why CV is a counter to dds? Interesting. 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

14 minutes ago, Farheim said:

So you think that rockets are the main reason why CV is a counter to dds? Interesting. 

 

The main reason why right now CVs are the main thread to DDs is WGs stupidity and lack of foresight about how some of the feces they put into the game turns out in the end.

Which resulted in a certain type of players thinking that CVs are the supposed counter for DD.

Which they are not supposed to be. Noneteless are rockets the easiest tool for CVs to crap the crap out of DDs.

Although it's way more funny to stick some torpedoes into them.

[Farheim]

6 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Which they are not supposed to be

... because?...