General CV related discussions.

[WolfRawrrr]

Hi. I have a question that I'd like to ask... I couldn't figure it out on my own, and I can't find an answer anywhere.

 

There is a Dockyard mission right now under part 4, "Armor and Engines" that calls for 120 hits to citadel (or destroyed) ribbons, or alternatively 17 hits to citadel in one battle. But you have to play a tier 6-10 aircraft carrier.

 

I have about 250 battles across the USN CV line. More than half with the Lexington. But I can remember maybe two or three times out of all those battles that I actually got a "hit to citadel" ribbon. Notably using attack aicraft against other CVs. Is it just me, or does this mission seem surreal somehow? They expect you to get 120 citadels, or even 17 in one battle when this virtually never happens? What am I getting wrong here?

[Sunleader]

2 minutes ago, WolfRawrrr said:

Hi. I have a question that I'd like to ask... I couldn't figure it out on my own, and I can't find an answer anywhere.

 

There is a Dockyard mission right now under part 4, "Armor and Engines" that calls for 120 hits to citadel (or destroyed) ribbons, or alternatively 17 hits to citadel in one battle. But you have to play a tier 6-10 aircraft carrier.

 

I have about 250 battles across the USN CV line. More than half with the Lexington. But I can remember maybe two or three times out of all those battles that I actually got a "hit to citadel" ribbon. Notably using attack aicraft against other CVs. Is it just me, or does this mission seem surreal somehow? They expect you to get 120 citadels, or even 17 in one battle when this virtually never happens? What am I getting wrong here?

 

US CV Line has HE Based Weaponry.

As such you wont be getting Citadels except in very rare vases where the Citadel is very Exposed.

 

To get Citadels you need one of the CVs Armed with AP Weapons.

For example the German CV Line which has AP Rockets and AP Bombs that can Score Citadels

 

With the German CV Line this Mission is Pretty Easy in Fact. Because you can just go to Coop. And Strike Enemy Cruisers with AP Rockets. Getting 3-5 Citadels in a Single Attack.

[WolfRawrrr]

Huh. As simple as that I guess. It's pretty obvious now but thanks for pointing it out. I got confused by the fact that I did get a few citadels before and that I read about people saying they could get them with Lexington's bombers. Had no idea it's a lot more common for German (and I suppose IJN bombers as well since they're AP). Thanks!

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

3 out of 4 DDs dead by my hand while the enemy CV has yet to accomplish anything. Would proceed to bag myself the 4th when we were cleaning up the enemy.

Truly much better than having the DDs fight each other and being able to support them at that. /s

Could be worse. I ended up in a T5/T6 game, killed their DD, and then my DD and me killed their CV...

I asked the team if I should bomb/torp myself to make it more of a challenge... 

 

Next game, I end up vs 3 DDs (all at 100HP or so) and could not seem to finish them off.... 

Spotted and hit them several times (if fact I think i was the only one trying...), my team died, "you are the last hope". 

LMAO guess what, of course we lost. Nice nerfing Weegee... LOLLLLLL!!!! 

Gave those 3DDs all a +1, LMAO. 

[GarrusBrutus]

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The total damage is not showing the "power".

 

What is stronger, a pistol or a Apache?

 

You get 10 rounds for the MG on your Apache, but 1000 rounds for the pistol

Technically the Apache is way stronger, but with 1000 rounds you still can kill more people.

 

That's the effect we get with CVs. They have more rounds, duo they live longer. But their rounds are "weak" ( " ")

 

 

We don't take RNG into account: Assuming that a CV does every minute 15k damage in average. Now the CV always lives 20 minutes. He does every minute for 20 minutes 15k damage, thus he does 300k damage.

 

Now we have a BB with big salvos, no RNG, he hits always very hard with 10k every 30s. He does 20k dmg in a minute. But he sinks in 5 minutes. 100k dmg in total.

While his total damge is low, he has way more dpm and cause way more damage.

But what if the BB survives longer? He lives now 15 minutes and does 300k dmg. Then another BB lives 20 Minutes and does 400k dmg.

 

What is the average total damage now? (100k+300k+400k)/3 = 266k

 

Even if there are players, who does 400k dmg, there average total damage is lower than the maximum potential of the CV. That's why I would not take the total damage as proof for the damage potential. It doesn't include the dpm.

^ This is what i imagine you looking like while trying to explain the above.

Pikko, you truly live in your own world man and we play entirely different games.

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Of course there are DDs, that do mistakes, but I have it very often, that my DD is bad, and the enemy DD is not dumb enough to move 5km close to my BB or cruiser. Many DDs stay away far enough.

So you're DDs are on average worse than the enemies? Come one man, you know better than this nonsense. You start to sound like those matchmaking tinfoilhat players.

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

classic situation, the only choice: Kite/Run away. Not chance to deal with that situation, even if we kill a BB or a Cruiser, the DD will threat us and drop torpedos on us. Moving towards the Cap will make the torpedo drops even easier, and will put us inot a very bad situation.

Obviously in this situation youre not going to take A any time soon. That is why you give up the hopes of capping that cap in the near future and instead move to support the other caps. This situation happens almost on a daily basis: Your dd dies and the enemy dd doesnt. Does that always mean that a match is lost? Ofcourse not.

The general player in a random match will ALWAYS try to win harder. At some point those enemies will get impatient and push. Which is exactly what good players can exploit. "Oh our dd won the fight, now i can push up!" <- This is perfect for any cruiser player. You punish their push after getting that early lead and once their CAs/BBs are low hp by the dmg from your kiting force, you turn around and retake the cap. You don't even have to spot and/kill their DD, since you capitalised on their early advantage and overall lack of tactical insight.

 

You see it happen more profoundly in ranked: I played radar mino for the main part and 9/10 times i killed at least one of their DDs right at the start.

I radared and killed their DD at the start. EZ win right? We have two caps and they no longer have a DD on this flank?

Think again: My team started to push into their kiting forces one by one while my DD on the other side thought it was smart to cap the third cap, completely isolating himself from his teammate.

This match was lost with 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! enemy ships remaining alive.

Random players simply lack the tactical understanding to make use of advantages. So no, a random game where you lose one or two DDs early is not necessarily lost because at some point the enemies will atleast try to throw. The question is if you can capitalise on that pepega player instinct.

[Pikkozoikum]

Here a game that I just had. I might not be a super unicum, but I wouldn't say, that I'm a bad player. In this game a 2xDD division carried the game. I even killed one of the DDs, but they had a lot smokes and AA cover, which did it so hard to kill even one of them, and we had 2 CVs. though the other CV only did now and then damage.

 

@1MajorKoenig, @Farheim, @RAYvenMP

 

 

The Akizuki and Lightning took both caps, though Lightning died at the first cap by me.

I wasn't able to kill the Akizuki, did too little dmg and I lost rocket planes

 

 

I actually expected the other CV to kill the Akizuki, but then, it was a german CV with no HE rockets. That DD totally won the match and I actually tried very earlier to do somethign against them, but I was most of the time alone, since our team died on that side.

DDs still have a lot influence even with a CV around, even with 2 CVs around. Though it always depends on how the match goes, how the RNG is, how the teams react and so on.

So this match is so meaningful like showing a DD blapping in the first 3 minutes by a CV. It can happen this way, and it can happen that way.

[Pururut]

I had this small Renaissance moment today. It was a tier 8 game and I was in Weser. Picked the rocket planes and began scouting and found a relatively isolated cruiser. I began my approach and suddenly there were these orange/red flak clouds. Defensive AA... except this time instead of just using W and S I also mashed A and D. Like that slide to left, slide to the right song. Anyways as I was doing this mini dance suddenly none of those flak clouds hit anything and voila, 2 solid passes with several citadels. A couple of games more and it worked every time.

 

Are flak clouds glitched or was AA always like this? Oh and for some reason I decided to learn Shoukaku because using Lexington and dive bombing and kindling lone tier 10 battleships for big damage numbers while letting enemy destroyers roam freely and slaughter my team kinda got stale. These AP bombs... do they work the same way as AP shells as in having a proper fuze requiring a certain armor thickness to arm or does it arm the second it touches any surface? Also does early bomb drop from a higher altitude increase bomb velocity and thus penetration or is that just a cosmetic effect?

[Pikkozoikum]

43 minutes ago, Pururut said:

I had this small Renaissance moment today. It was a tier 8 game and I was in Weser. Picked the rocket planes and began scouting and found a relatively isolated cruiser. I began my approach and suddenly there were these orange/red flak clouds. Defensive AA... except this time instead of just using W and S I also mashed A and D. Like that slide to left, slide to the right song. Anyways as I was doing this mini dance suddenly none of those flak clouds hit anything and voila, 2 solid passes with several citadels. A couple of games more and it worked every time.

 

Are flak clouds glitched or was AA always like this? Oh and for some reason I decided to learn Shoukaku because using Lexington and dive bombing and kindling lone tier 10 battleships for big damage numbers while letting enemy destroyers roam freely and slaughter my team kinda got stale. These AP bombs... do they work the same way as AP shells as in having a proper fuze requiring a certain armor thickness to arm or does it arm the second it touches any surface? Also does early bomb drop from a higher altitude increase bomb velocity and thus penetration or is that just a cosmetic effect?

AP Bombs have always same pen value, only the angle can make a difference. When you drop very late, the bombs can get a dfferent angle. At least that was a statement in the early times of rework.

Also I'm not sure, if dropping high leads to higher velocities, since a diving plane also have a lot speed even before the drop. So not sure if the g-velocity can make that up.

The bombs have also an arming time, otherwise you couldn't overpen, I guess.

 

Here:

Quote

Can you give us a penetration value of AP bombs? It's really interesting to know. Thanks.

A:

Hosho (Type 99 25 Mod1): 174

Ruyjo (Type 3 25 Mod1 Mk4): 228

Shokaku (Type 2 50 Mark1): 262

Hakuryu (Type 2 80 Mk5 Mod1): 351

Enterprise (M62): 244

GZ (PD 500): 334 (pre buff)

These should be the base values. Please take this into account:

1. Penetration capability is always the same, it's not affected by anything.
2. However, bombs interact with effective armor, so angle matters and they even can bounce.
3. They have normalization. It's base value is bigger than AP shells, but it's applied non-linearly; if the angle is bad, even great normalization won't help.
4. Aircraft angle and speed affect bomb speed and trajectory (but bombs do not loose penetration from speed!). Which means that for maximum penetration capabilities we must make the drop as close to 90 degrees as possible -> dropping early. For soft targets it may make sense to drop lately because, as with AP shells, for soft targets you don't want overpens and increasing effective armor turns into a benefit.

 

[1MajorKoenig]

6 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Here a game that I just had. I might not be a super unicum, but I wouldn't say, that I'm a bad player. In this game a 2xDD division carried the game. I even killed one of the DDs, but they had a lot smokes and AA cover, which did it so hard to kill even one of them, and we had 2 CVs. though the other CV only did now and then damage.

 

@1MajorKoenig, @Farheim, @RAYvenMP

I don’t understand why we are discussing this once more? CVs do have a high battle influence - that can be measured and WG is monitoring this KPI. But that is not a problem by itself - one class has to be the most influential. Second by the way is the DD class. And in games without CV the DD is the only matchwinning class - much more than the CV in matches with all four classes. 
 

It’s rather obvious that DDs don’t want their privileges to be cut down. And CVs are certainly limiting the DDs possibilities and freedom more than the other two classes. But all of that has been discussed over and over again - none of that will change the different opinion on this matter. So what is the question here?

[El2aZeR]

48 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

And in games without CV the DD is the only matchwinning class - much more than the CV in matches with all four classes.

 

Which I suppose is why the solo WR ceiling for all classes except CVs is roughly 75%?

Laughable.

[DFens_666]

12 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

We don't take RNG into account: Assuming that a CV does every minute 15k damage in average. Now the CV always lives 20 minutes. He does every minute for 20 minutes 15k damage, thus he does 300k damage.

 

Now we have a BB with big salvos, no RNG, he hits always very hard with 10k every 30s. He does 20k dmg in a minute. But he sinks in 5 minutes. 100k dmg in total.

While his total damge is low, he has way more dpm and cause way more damage.

But what if the BB survives longer? He lives now 15 minutes and does 300k dmg. Then another BB lives 20 Minutes and does 400k dmg.

 

What is the average total damage now? (100k+300k+400k)/3 = 266k

  

Even if there are players, who does 400k dmg, there average total damage is lower than the maximum potential of the CV. That's why I would not take the total damage as proof for the damage potential. It doesn't include the dpm.

 

Thats like deliberately making stuff up to make it sound less bad. Also its assuming, that its fine that CVs have a survivability of almost double than the other classes, which is infact not the case. Thats one of the major issues with CVs.

Also, most games dont run for 20 minutes, so CVs cant play for 20 minutes even if they dont die.

 

And you are totaly ignoring where the CVs deal that damage. A CV killing a DD in lets say 3 minutes or so, will only have 20k damage, but he killed that DD. BBs pretty much never kill DDs on their own, i doubt they kill half a DD on average. Maybe a few k here and there. But a BB might get a good salvo on another BB or Cruiser, dealing 20k damage in the same time as the CV killed the DD. Same damage - extreme difference in match influence. Ill just say it right away here: No, BBs dont delete cruisers all the time becuase a CV spots them, it might happen ofc. A CV has often no issues deleting a DD at start, while its extremely unlikely for a BB to delete anything within 3 minutes. Can happen, but a BB cant just decide to do that, unlike a CV.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Thats like deliberately making stuff up to make it sound less bad. Also its assuming, that its fine that CVs have a survivability of almost double than the other classes, which is infact not the case. Thats one of the major issues with CVs.

Also, most games dont run for 20 minutes, so CVs cant play for 20 minutes even if they dont die.

This was only an example. I wanted just to make clear, that total damage is not always  compareable 1by1. Many people say "Look at the total damage of the CV, they do so much dmg", but actually it's an average of all games, and the total damage doesn't tell you the actual DPM.

Duo their high suvival rate, their average total damage is higher than other classes. But that also means, that the dpm must be lower.

 

The 20 minutes was just to make the example more clear. I actually thought, it was clear, what I wanted to explain.

 

12 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

And you are totaly ignoring where the CVs deal that damage. A CV killing a DD in lets say 3 minutes or so, will only have 20k damage, but he killed that DD. BBs pretty much never kill DDs on their own, i doubt they kill half a DD on average.

That wasn't the topic, if a DD can kill DDs or not. I was just talking about the stat "Total damage", which can be misleading. A CV with average total damage 80k and survival rate 70% compared with a DD that has 80k total damage, but survival rate 40%, then you can assume, that the DD has more dpm. Just as an example.

 

15 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

No, BBs dont delete cruisers all the time becuase a CV spots them, it might happen ofc. A CV has often no issues deleting a DD at start, while its extremely unlikely for a BB to delete anything within 3 minutes. Can happen, but a BB cant just decide to do that, unlike a CV.

Depends on the match and what happens more often is mostly speculation. It happens pretty often, that a ship dies in the first 3 minutes. There is always a potatoe, that sails straight into the death.  Doesn'T really matter, if that is a braind dead DD, who dies to a CV, or a brainddead Cruiser, who sails a straight line broadside to a BB.

I actually got killed early as well, when I played a bit braindead. That happend to me even in a CV once. But also in a cruiser. But what never happend so far, that I died FB in a DD to a CV since rework, can't remember that. Guess I would have made a screenshot of that to remember that

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Depends on the match

 

You are again ignoring what im trying to say. You say, avg damage for CVs is scewed because they survive longer than other classes. I try to tell you, CVs often deal less damage by hunting DDs, if they would hunt BBs, then this happens:

 

hmm 150k in 5 minutes. Come again with a BB that deals 600k damage in 20 minutes?

You try to paint a picture in favour of CVs, while ignoring the other stuff which causes them to have lower avg damage. Btw, not to mention that there are really really bad players in CVs, who deal much less damage than the potato BB players.

0,24% of the lexington players deal less than 10k avg damage. For Bismarck players, this is only true for 0,011%. Even in absolute numbers, there are more than double the amount of Lexington players (25) dealing less than 10k damage comapred to Bismarck players (12). And there are 6,5 times more players in Bismarck than Lexington. Yet at the same time, server average for Lex is 53k, but only 51k for Bismarck. So good players in Lex are way better than equally good players in Bismarck, and the average gets dragged down by the bad Lexington players.

 

- CVs deal about the same avg damage as BBs, despite the average player failing harder in it.

- CVs deal much more high impact damage against DDs, which lowers their avg damage, because farming a BB would give them an even higher avg damage.

Once they are able to deal more damage to BBs and Cruisers, like MvR, even WG sees that they need to get nerfed.

 

You cant try to justify average stats with cherrypicking anecdotal evidence like "BBs can devstrike a Cruiser 3 minutes into the game" - this is not the norm. Cruisers can die early, as can BBs and DDs. This is not necessarily attributed to one ship tho. But a DD getting rekt in his spawn is actually one player and one ship only: The CV.

[1MajorKoenig]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Which I suppose is why the solo WR ceiling for all classes except CVs is roughly 75%?

Don’t pretend you don’t understand simple numbers and how they work together 

[CptBarney]

And the truce has been broken r.i.p

 

[El2aZeR]

44 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Don’t pretend you don’t understand simple numbers and how they work together 

 

I'm not. And the numbers paint a very clear picture. There is only one class that is severely overperforming and it sure isn't DDs.

 

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

the total damage doesn't tell you the actual DPM.

 

DPM is a theoretical metric and as such completely useless. In reality CVs are the most effective and thus best damage dealers in the entire game.

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

But a DD getting rekt in his spawn is actually one player and one ship only: The CV.

Well he'll be an important factor in it that's for sure. But:

 

- if that DD has his AA off, the CV will only find him at 2.5km...

- if that DD is smart enough not to straightline YOLO to nearest cap, CV will have to search...

-...aaaand then there is the thing of that damn spotting-free-for-al. It is often not the CV that kills him, it is somebody else due to spotting.

 

Average DD though, YOLOs to nearest cap with AA on... will get killed by average CV. AND his mates. Very fast.

I have a solution for that. How about a minefield which DDs have to go around... 

 

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I have a solution for that. How about a minefield which DDs have to go around... 

 

How about the friendly CV can drop mines infront of his own DDs to not make him yolo into caps Same for BBs, only dropping behind them so they dont turn around in spawn

 

2 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

-...aaaand then there is the thing of that damn spotting-free-for-al. It is often not the CV that kills him, it is somebody else due to spotting.

 

Yeah well, even then you have to attribute it to the CV, dont you? Otherwise the DD wouldnt be spotted.

Is the BB at fault for citadeling a Cruiser in spawn when the CV spots that Cruiser for him? Dont think so. The BB has no chance to ever spot that Cruiser by himself.

 

Thats for hightier ships, so T7-10 on mapleysrup. If we combine damage + spotting damage, thats the impact a CV has. Which is almost double than Cruisers and DDs, and still 50% more than BBs.

 

Well, i dont think we need to talk about CV spotting being bad, we already agreed on that one anyway

[1MajorKoenig]

13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

I'm not. And the numbers paint a very clear picture. There is only one class that is severely overperforming and it sure isn't DDs.

You mentioned WR specifically. And as you know it is usually only one single CV per team which in turn means you exercise 100% of your class influence in the match. 
 

It is absolutely inevitable due to this that you can boost your WR easily in a CV as long as you are above average (the only exception to this simple truth would be if the class influence would be zero - which it is not).

 But it doesn’t tell you if the class is overperforming compared to other classes. I am sure you know that but the statements are completely misleading.

 

As with any number or indicator you have to know what it means to draw any useful information from it 

[UnderDuress]

13 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

You mentioned WR specifically. And as you know it is usually only one single CV per team which in turn means you exercise 100% of your class influence in the match. 

There are still 11 other players on the team, whether you are in a CV or not?

[DFens_666]

19 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

And as you know it is usually only one single CV per team which in turn means you exercise 100% of your class influence in the match. 

 

As if a single BB or Cruiser could ever dream to have a high game influence.

Single DD depends a lot on enemy lineup... contrary to single CV, basicly doesnt matter at all what you face.

[1MajorKoenig]

37 minutes ago, UnderDuress said:

There are still 11 other players on the team, whether you are in a CV or not?

30 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

As if a single BB or Cruiser could ever dream to have a high game influence.

Single DD depends a lot on enemy lineup... contrary to single CV, basicly doesnt matter at all what you face.

It is relatively simple - if there are 4 BBs per team you exercise 25% of the class influence - i.e. you decide on 1/4 of all the actions this class is supposed to perform within the match.

 

And second there is a “relative class influence” which is not a single hard figure but a combined and weighted number characteristic to a class. While it will be close to impossible to have everyone agree on the exact weighting the results of relative battle influence per class will not be wildly deviating. 
 

In other words: yes they are 11 other players. But missing the “relative class influence” of one of the classes will make your team’s life much harder. Think of a game where all your DDs die within three minutes and the enemy has three left. Will be a terrible uphill battle. 

[DFens_666]

18 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

It is relatively simple - if there are 4 BBs per team you exercise 25% of the class influence - i.e. you decide on 1/4 of all the actions this class is supposed to perform within the match.

 

I disagree tho, that a single BB has it easier. BBs usually get stronger in force. A single BB has pretty much 0 crossfire, unless there are some BCs aswell. More BBs = harder for Cruisers.

Ever been a Cruiser in a 1 or 2 Cruiser game? Its horrible. You cant do much. You have a CV and several DDs spotting you, and 5 BBs try to shoot you when you are spotted.

Both BBs and Cruisers can have more influence, is there are more of the same class around. Sounds weird, but it is. Look at it this way: If you are in a single cruiser game, you wont be able to do much. Well, maybe if you are a radar Cruiser. But a big issue is lack of targets for the enemies, and lack of combining HE for fires. Does it matter if the enemy Cruiser suicides in 3 minutes? Nope, has 0 impact for you, the BBs/DDs have to pick up the slack for you anyway. You might be able to do good, but you cant stop a loss from happening.

 

DDs are a bit closer to CVs imo. But it still depends, what kinda ships the enemies have, especially radar Cruisers. Even if you are a single DD, and the enemies have 4 radar ships scattered around, you will most likely not call the shots. You have to rely on your BBs and Cruisers to get rid of the radars first. But in the end, you want to get rid of enemy DDs asap, because they are the ones which can spot you.

 

So whats with CVs? Sure, if there are 2 CVs per side, it becomes a damage race between 4 people instead of 2. 2 Decent CVs will do better than 1 good and 1 bad CV. But thats already going a step further, since it includes skill. More CVs means also, less surface ships, which means less AA (if that matters). I think if you would add more CVs, lets say 4 or 5 per side, the team might win which has the best weapons to hurt CVs a lot, f.e AP rockets. Do you need your surface ships to do anything? Yes, not die. Which is kinda weird thing if thats the biggest impact they can have. They should sit back, and hope that the enemies suicide, because when the enemies suicide, your own CVs could fly strikes faster than the enemies on you.

And thats also the only way to make @El2aZeR lose games: If his teammates die too fast, he will lose the game. Its hardly possible for good players to delete campers in spawn. But when you get closer to a SU CV player, he will punish you for it. And what happens when a SU CV player kills my DDs within 3 minutes? It puts pressure on me, because capping becomes harder and im also losing points. If the enemies just sit back, then i have to move up, at which point the CV player can just strike me, putting my team further behind in points.

Im not sure, if there are enough multi-CV games to really conclude that a good CV player has less influence. I know, that good CV players dont like having more CVs around, but thats for 2 reasons:

- a bad CV player can make them lose more often, when the enemies have 2 decent CVs

- a 2nd good CV player however, will cause a roflstomp and essentially end the game faster, which makes both CVs deal less damage.

So i think, it doesnt matter. It might not change anything at all.

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

How about the friendly CV can drop mines infront of his own DDs to not make him yolo into caps Same for BBs, only dropping behind them so they dont turn around in spawn 

Where can I vote for that? 

 

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Yeah well, even then you have to attribute it to the CV, dont you? Otherwise the DD wouldnt be spotted.

True. The spotting needs to go. nevertheless it isn't something that is useful for CVs at all.

It is just something that WeeGee dumped on them. 

 

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Is the BB at fault for citadeling a Cruiser in spawn when the CV spots that Cruiser for him? Dont think so. The BB has no chance to ever spot that Cruiser by himself.

Only if he shoots... 

 

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Thats for hightier ships, so T7-10 on mapleysrup. If we combine damage + spotting damage, thats the impact a CV has. Which is almost double than Cruisers and DDs, and still 50% more than BBs.

True. Twice spotting damage. But I think damage output is OK-ish. Similar to a BB. 

 

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Well, i dont think we need to talk about CV spotting being bad, we already agreed on that one anyway

I think we do. It needs to go. It is useless and a burden.

[El2aZeR]

4 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

You mentioned WR specifically. And as you know it is usually only one single CV per team which in turn means you exercise 100% of your class influence in the match.

 

Which matters... how exactly?

Everyone faces the same MM, no?