General CV related discussions.

[Pikkozoikum]

9 hours ago, UnderDuress said:

I will leave the RTS counter play talk to better players than me.
But bad player getting punished by better player should be the way pvp works. Player skill should be a major factor in pvp games right?

Yes, if you generalize it, then you are right, better players should punish worse players. But RTS was more selective.

Good surface players got punished by good CV RTS players, because their CV was bad and also the CV was too impactful

 

8 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Yesterday I detonated a Nelson - it’s possible but not super likely to pull that off twice in a game 

 

Btw is it true that torps aimed for the magazine have a higher chance for a det? Or is that another myth?

I detonated lately in my Shikishima to a torpedo, but also did that with Aircraft torpedos against bbs

 

8 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I call BS, that is just impossible to one-shot a BB. 

RNG will never give you a heap of detonations in a row. 

 

EDIT: even RTS CVs couldn't do it. Maybe twice a whole match.

 

He doesnt use the squads at the same time, but you can see, how much dmg 2 squads do. I call that a one-shot. He just needs a few % less hp

 

Maybe from 100% doesnt work, but 80% and getting sunk is still a oneshot, even with 60% it would be a oneshot for me

Though I don't remember exactly, but I think we were pretty much full life, like 80-90%, it's just too long ago ^^

I just remember how the Tirpitz was suddenly gone with one strike, and then I was gone with the next air raid

 

Second drop does 32k, so technically you could do 64k? Tirpitz has 69k, so it does 92% dmg

[BLUB__BLUB]

33 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

but 80% and getting sunk is still a oneshot, even with 60% it would be a oneshot for me

Well if we call that a oneshot, that still happens. If you are < 70% you can get detonated.

But I only got it once when playing CV. I get it at least once a week when I'm playing BB. 

 

AP bombs are kinda sick though. That is also why the RNG got nerfed. 

Used to be able to get them all in, now, one citadel is happy-happy-joy-joy. 

 

33 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Second drop does 32k, so technically you could do 64k? Tirpitz has 69k, so it does 92% dmg

First drop did 13.280... that's still plenty, but also that would not be one drop - it would be two.

Thought you were talking about torpedoes though.

[Pikkozoikum]

36 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well if we call that a oneshot, that still happens. If you are < 70% you can get detonated.

But I only got it once when playing CV. I get it at least once a week when I'm playing BB. 

 

AP bombs are kinda sick though. That is also why the RNG got nerfed. 

Used to be able to get them all in, now, one citadel is happy-happy-joy-joy. 

Well a deto is technically a one-shot, though with one-shot I mean of course the damage potential to saturated the almost all the HP in one go

 

36 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

First drop did 13.280... that's still plenty, but also that would not be one drop - it would be two.

Thought you were talking about torpedoes though.

Yes, this video just shows the potential, that it can happen. I mean 13k+32k are still 45k, which is also tons of damage, but since he hit 32k means, that a carrier can drop with both bomber squads at the same time and archieve 2x32k=64k dmg  -> one shot

 

I think a Lexington could one shot with AP bombs a Nagato or Tirpitz

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well a deto is technically a one-shot, though with one-shot I mean of course the damage potential to saturated the almost all the HP in one go

...but it can't really happen anymore. 

 

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Yes, this video just shows the potential, that it can happen. I mean 13k+32k are still 45k, which is also tons of damage, but since he hit 32k means, that a carrier can drop with both bomber squads at the same time and archieve 2x32k=64k dmg  -> one shot

COULD happen. In fact I've been 'deleted'quite a few times by RTS CV. 

Usually that was because he dumped on me with a scissor-thing using torpedoes.

 

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I think a Lexington could one shot with AP bombs a Nagato or Tirpitz

Pretty sure it is much easier and happens a lot more by BBs. 

At least I manage to "blap" other BBs more with BBs than with CVs.

I have to fly out multiple times to even kill that BB that is sitting still behind that island... 

But if I want him dead, yes usually he is dead. In the end.

 

I can do a 20K with FDR, but twice, the receiver must be quite potat. 

Lexi now has HE bombs, and well, FDR is a T10. And you can't do 20K with Lexi. 

[SV_Kompresor]

10 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

but it can't really happen anymore. 

It kind of can....in the same salvo anyway...1 shell lowers the HP and the second detonates the ship. So yes, it's technically not a one shot, but for all intents and purposes it might aswell be.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Good surface players got punished by good CV RTS players, because their CV was bad and also the CV was too impactful

Wow...

Seems I'm lucky that I'm not such a good surface player, as I didn't really feel having been "punished" by any CV player - Unicorns exepted, though I rarely met any of them - but only get dealed the proper result for being dumb or doing something dumb...

And I can't really say that CV play was "too impactful". Not more than having than 6 potatoes on the team when the enemy team has only 3... so... wouldn't that mean that 3 potatoes had as much impact as an CV?

 

On the other hand, now, after the reeework, I really have the feeling to get punished by CVs... good ones, bad ones... deserved or not... just because they just can attack me without having any chance to keep them from it...

But I guess that is what You expect to be "a good change" in the game?

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Good surface players got punished by good CV RTS players, because their CV was bad and also the CV was too impactful

 

wew, lucky ive just imagined this one (amongst others)

 

[hopfolk]

Its as though CVs should be either allowed to spot OR do damage... but not both.

Meanwhile, Johnny Chad in his Georgia/JeanBart/Turdpitz/Massa Make 100k+ every game without any responsibility to counter their opposite number.

 

10 Torps from a Graf Zep, do 40k ON A GOOD DAY. If you think this is imba - play a Cruiser in a game with 380+mm BBs. They don't need to aim - they just smash their foreheads against the keyboard and you die.

 

Power creep has affected everyone. Radar has dicked DDs, Overmatch has dicked Cruisers, the community is trying to [edited] CVs and BBs [edited] themselves because they like the D.

 

Bring on the Subs with their 20km guided homing torps.

 

Oh man this game...

[Pikkozoikum]

48 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

wew, lucky ive just imagined this one (amongst others)

 

A bad player, that is not the point, like I said in the quote? xD

The dependency on your CV was way higher with RTS than with Rework

[El2aZeR]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Good surface players got punished by good CV RTS players, because their CV was bad and also the CV was too impactful

 

Ah, yes, I can really see how this lone Gearing is getting punished by a KotS winning player in an official match.

 

 

Yes, really getting punished hard here since he has no fighter cover whatsoever. Not totally killing off both enemy squads and taking no damage for it.

 

Meanwhile nowadays it doesn't matter how skilled a surface ship is. The only thing that matters is how skilled the CV player is. Such an amazing improvement /s.

 

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The dependency on your CV was way higher with RTS than with Rework

 

Which is why top CV players still maintain roughly the same stats as before, while the average and terrible CV players have actually gotten worse. This is also why CV + AA divs worked so well in RTS, because the AA ships were so dependent on the CV for fighter cover all the time and couldn't just lock down half or even the entire map by themselves.

Oh wait.

Your laughable narrative still has absolutely no basis in reality.

 

I do have to ask though, who are you trying to convince with your blatant lies at this point? Yourself?

 

1 hour ago, hopfolk said:

Meanwhile, Johnny Chad in his Georgia/JeanBart/Turdpitz/Massa Make 100k+ every game without any responsibility to counter their opposite number.

 

Weird how you're not able to do it then.

Have you ever perhaps considered that the reason you're underperforming lies with you?

[Deckeru_Maiku]

10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Which is why top CV players still maintain roughly the same stats as before, while the average and terrible CV players have actually gotten worse

 

Well, WG would say that they achieved their goal, because at least there are some more average and a shipload of terrible CV players in the game... okay, mostly at T4, but hey, more is more, right?

[DFens_666]

9 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

A bad player, that is not the point, like I said in the quote? xD

The dependency on your CV was way higher with RTS than with Rework

 

Well you said, good players were punished by good CV players.

So i showed you, that stinkingly bad CV players can also punish good players, so apparently thats better?

[Pikkozoikum]

23 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well you said, good players were punished by good CV players.

So i showed you, that stinkingly bad CV players can also punish good players, so apparently thats better?

Not sure, if the context is clear. It was more about the skill gap+impact relation and the dependency of the own CV player. If you get a bad CV player in your team, that you have a bad player in your team. But this bad player is not responsible to hard counter the enemy CV nor the enemy CV counters him and dev strikes you.

 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

18 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Not sure, if the context is clear. It was more about the skill gap+impact relation and the dependency of the own CV player. If you get a bad CV player in your team, that you have a bad player in your team. But this bad player is not responsible to hard counter the enemy CV nor the enemy CV counters him and dev strikes you.

 

Yeah, seems You miss the context... So I try to give it to you really sloooow... might be that it helps

 

1. the shown bad player was not in DFens_666's team
2. DFens_666 is not a bad player
3. DFens_666 was punished by this enemy player
4. the player of the CV in DFens_666's team was - as to be expected - in no way involved in this, as allied CVs have no way whatsoever to keep enemy CVs to "punish" someone (except themselves because CV..)

Conclusion: an obviously f*cking bad CV player can cr*p on a good player's surface ship and there's not much to be done against it. Especially not by the allied CV player. Even that one would like to help.

Conclusion 2: a Unicorn CV player in the enemy team cr*ps harder on surface ship players than a potato one. And it's not dependend on the quality of the CV player in the opposing team

Conclusion 3: the skill gap is still there - it's just only about can cr*p harder/faster as the element of CVs interactingwith each other got removed

Conclusion 4: Your argumentation is faulty, or, in the worst case, intend to hide the reality, which would mean that El2aZeR is right when writing

9 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

I do have to ask though, who are you trying to convince with your blatant lies at this point? Yourself?

 

[AngryWallace]

Holy cow!

 

It's been ages now and CV on DD interaction still hasn't been fixed. 

 

The incompetence is mindboggling.

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

16 hours ago, SV_Kompresor said:

It kind of can....in the same salvo anyway...1 shell lowers the HP and the second detonates the ship. So yes, it's technically not a one shot, but for all intents and purposes it might aswell be.

Yes that happens indeed... quite a lot (even a BB-tater like me can do it) but CVs can't do it that easily anymore.

Only managed it once, but that BB wasn't full health. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Not sure, if the context is clear. It was more about the skill gap+impact relation and the dependency of the own CV player.

The skill gap used to be good player vs bad player. 

Now it is good player vs FLAK (doesn't care) and bad player vs FLAK (dies).

The skill gap is even worse than before, really. 

 

5 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

If you get a bad CV player in your team, that you have a bad player in your team.

True, but the thing is that a CV player can make/brake a team. 

Let's say a good CV is worth 2 or 3 ships. Damage-wise no, but the rest.

Some (very) good CV players will even pull about half a team of taters. 

But even half a team of unicorns cannot pull a team against that good CV player.

 

Eh, that said, even a really really good CV player probably cannot pull a full tater team vs a team that has some reasonable players incl their CV. 

 

5 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But this bad player is not responsible to hard counter the enemy CV nor the enemy CV counters him and dev strikes you.

He can't do anything about that anyway, true. But neither can the unicum CV player on YOUR team save YOU from him.

[Farheim]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Some (very) good CV players will even pull about half a team of taters. 

But even half a team of unicorns cannot pull a team against that good CV player.

None of that is true.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Farheim said:

None of that is true.

I think it is. Seen it many times. 

[El2aZeR]

10 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

It was more about the skill gap+impact relation and the dependency of the own CV player.

 

You are more dependent on your own CV player to not be terrible in the rework as you completely lack options as a surface ship to counter the enemy CV as has already been proven.

So, for how long will you disappear only to come back spouting the same blatant lies once again this time?

[arquata2019_]

im sure @El2aZeR and @Pikkozoikum are really nice kids to each other.

20 ore fa, El2aZeR ha scritto:

h, yes, I can really see how this lone Gearing is getting punished by a KotS winning player in an official match.

How did he not die by torps? were RTS torp launches affected by RNG or did they had a pattern? for example graf zeppelin i read on asia/na forum had a crossing pattern, midway had a different one etc..

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

How did he not die by torps?

 

Fara explains it in the video. The Gearing used DFAA and thus caused the torps to spread out, making for a fairly easy dodge.

[arquata2019_]

Proprio ora, El2aZeR ha scritto:

 

Fara explains it in the video. The Gearing used DFAA and thus caused the torps to spread out, making for a fairly easy dodge.

that's cool! (DFAA that alterned/changed the spread i mean, if i understand correctly)

[Pikkozoikum]

6 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The skill gap used to be good player vs bad player. 

Now it is good player vs FLAK (doesn't care) and bad player vs FLAK (dies).

The skill gap is even worse than before, really. 

I disagree.  First of all I was talking about the skill gap + imfluence of CVs. It's the combination, not the skill gap alone. I also talked about the dependency on the CV. Just imagine the RTS CV would have no fighter...

Also the good CV player and the bad CV player are playing vs a Surface ship. This surface ship has AA, but also knowledge. Skill in this game is mostly about knowledge. It's not a fast paced shooter.

So the knowledge is

1. Know your enemy - how is the CV attack, with what, where

2. Know your position - am I safe here, is here cover and massive aa?

3. Know your ship - is it capable to take a full hit, do I have to maneuver, can my ship good maneuver?

I'm sure there is more, but just an example. But you can reduce a huge amount of damage, when a surface ship player, plays good. Just watch all the replays shown here, where people fail super hard. Straight moving, with AA on - DDs

 

Also the damage is lower, especially against Battleships. Earlier you could oneshot them with AP bombs, or kill them with a double strike with perma floods and fires. Now they struggle hard to kill a BB, even with help.

I had matches, where the CV went 90% of the time on my BB, that was a 56% WR player, so he was not bad, and he couldn't sink me, until the end, when it was lost and a other BB sunk me.

 

 

6 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

True, but the thing is that a CV player can make/brake a team. 

Let's say a good CV is worth 2 or 3 ships. Damage-wise no, but the rest.

Some (very) good CV players will even pull about half a team of taters. 

But even half a team of unicorns cannot pull a team against that good CV player.

 

Eh, that said, even a really really good CV player probably cannot pull a full tater team vs a team that has some reasonable players incl their CV. 

A good CV player can be more worth, but that can be all ships. Especially DDs can win a match alone by smart capping and killing bad DDs.

 

What you are saying, I doubt that heavily, half a team of unicorns will stop another team pretty fast. A CV player can't compensate that.

Don'T forget, we talk about CV; not about the OP CVs. If you take a unicorn Roosvelt Player into a T8 match, he will be obvioulsy be more worth. Take an Audacious into a full T10 game, that he will have less impact. So there are some broken CVs, but when we talk about CVs generally, they are not that much worth, then some believe.

They have a lot influence, but less than RTS CVs. DDs also have a lot influence, in some cases more as the CV

 

6 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

He can't do anything about that anyway, true. But neither can the unicum CV player on YOUR team save YOU from him.

And thats the good thing. Because it's up to me as a surface player and not up to my CV player. I have more control over the situation then against RTS.

 

In my BB, I just tank the CV. That's fine - In RTS he gets me with one Strike.

As a Cruiser (IJN), I pick a good position and maneuver out, so he deal a little to no dmg often.

As a DD I need a lot map awareness and oberservation - planes are seen from far away, so I plan what I'm doing before that.

 

I played many games since CV rework and never had a bad experience. It happen a few times, where a CV really fucked me up. But you know what? It was always my fault of bad positioning or mapawareness. I pushed to hard and forgot about the CV, or I went into a bad position earlier.

[Pikkozoikum]

41 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

that's cool! (DFAA that alterned/changed the spread i mean, if i understand correctly)

Sadly my Shimakaze had no DefAA back in those times. Nor any good AA v_v