General CV related discussions.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well yeah, but torps do 20... bombs too... and that is excluding any flooding/fires. 

A CV is basically a fat, usually parked- up and lonely, flat-topped oversized cruiser or BB. 

 

But weren't we supposed to use rockets as a means of "defending" against DDs... 

Well yes but actually no 

 

not defending... killing

[BLUB__BLUB]

Just now, Zuihou_Kai said:

Well yes but actually no 

 

not defending... killing

 I think they're pretty worthless for that. Gimme bombs all the way. 

I'll use torps if I happen to carry those, too. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Yeah FDR rockets are crap. Bombs also (against DDs). FDR overall is... well play it the way you see fit but it's not good against DDs with a brain sadly

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

Yeah FDR rockets are crap. Bombs also (against DDs). FDR overall is... well play it the way you see fit but it's not good against DDs with a brain sadly

True. Basically that thing puts  on a fire display, lots of planes, and it all looks very spectacular, but not very effective. 

However if you have fat damage or not depends on the availability of dipsticks catching the lot. 

If you have smart opponents (and in CB you will...) other CVs are much more effective, because they'll avoid 80%. 

This CV actually makes "just dodge" a thing, if it weren't for the spotting. Which is an annoyance, because it is slow and others are happy to 'kill assist". 

 

But still... there are soooo many dipsticks floating around... and farming them hard enough... also gives a win.

And the LOLZ that you get from them raging in chat... man, the incredible salt... 

 

Bombs and torps vs DDs I find quite viable. Every match I at least manage to hit a DD with a bomb or torp.

Had one match where I killed one DD and halved another one with one dump of torps. Totally not broken OP at all. 

Killed the 3rd DD with another torp after I had already f dropped a bomb on him before. Fourth one I could not find.

 

But alas I think my killing/hunting DD was regarded by the team to tater/yolooo to death. RFOL. 

Not sure if I want to do that again, all I got from it was those DDs and 20K from a BB drop.

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

4 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

And the LOLZ that you get from them raging in chat... man, the incredible salt... 

You are finally collecting it too. Now if you get gooder you will collect even more... keep on going

[Nit0]

18 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Way more. If you knew how strafes worked you could quite easily dodge them and avoid all damage which is not possible in DD vs CV interaction. This is why strafing in a RTS CV battle where both players were skilled practically wasn't used.

Not only dodge, but bait the opponent to strafe. I miss those times 😁

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

You are finally collecting it too. Now if you get gooder you will collect even more... keep on going

I am, basically "get gooder".... I'm quite capable and mostly I  "outfarm" the red CV. Usually by 25-50%. 

Also I know what I must do to "get unicum status". But I mostly play with buddies. 

The temptation to do idiotic stuff... (like, hey there's two DDs in that cap, can I torp them both...)  is just too great... 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I am, basically "get gooder".... I'm quite capable and mostly I  "outfarm" the red CV. Usually by 25-50%. 

Also I know what I must do to "get unicum status". But I mostly play with buddies. 

The temptation to do idiotic stuff... (like, hey there's two DDs in that cap, can I torp them both...)  is just too great... 

 

fun over all else as long as you aren't killing the fun of your teammates by purposefully throwing 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

fun over all else as long as you aren't killing the fun of your teammates by purposefully throwing 

Nah. It's more like, I am sometimes in doubt if I should help them too much. 

As in, suppose I kill all the DDs (and I can...) then what will they do. usually they go like, DDS are dead YOOOHOOOO.

Farming bordersurfing BBs is an option, but not so much in FDR as it is too slow to get there. 

Can farm them, but when I spot them, usually my teammates farm them harder... (forgetting the ones that are INDEED a risk...).

 

Also, main problems:

- Am I gonna help my teammates at a Cap A with that Stalingrad behind that island, while they leave Cap B, and let a DD through that will probably/likely torp my fat behind...

- Am I gonna "protect" a DD in cap by dropping planes, eh, that also tells the enemy that he's there - or drop them as spotters...

- That said seems 99% of players don't know the rocket-planes on FDR do not have fighter consumable... ah well. I have zero karma anyway...

 

Most salty is, they all hate CV and all DDs go REEEE REEE but you betcha what happens, the DDs want air support AND they want me to kill the red DDs. 

 

[musthir]

Why has WG done this? Double CV crap.

Do they make more money on selling CV than me stop paying for premium time?

Only conclusion i have come up with but i am sure there are others.

 

Its a crap game now filled with new players in their shining CV.

All for the money WG? Please explain.

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

13 hours ago, Nit0 said:

Not only dodge, but bait the opponent to strafe. I miss those times 😁

And the enemy team with the worse CV player, who get baited, won't miss those times ;D

[Prophecy82]

5 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

And the enemy team with the worse CV player, who get baited, won't miss those times ;D

Unpopular opinion: At least he had an incentive to git gudder or stop with the class all together. 

[UnderDuress]

6 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

19 hours ago, Nit0 said:

Not only dodge, but bait the opponent to strafe. I miss those times 😁

And the enemy team with the worse CV player, who get baited, won't miss those times ;D

As a couple of experienced RTS captains said, that “worse” CV player had more tools available to deal with strafing than a DD (or I guess most surface ships) now has to deal with rework CVs. How do you think teams should feel about reworked CVs?

[Pikkozoikum]

24 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

Unpopular opinion: At least he had an incentive to git gudder or stop with the class all together. 

You mean after the -11 karma? :D

13 minutes ago, UnderDuress said:

As a couple of experienced RTS captains said, that “worse” CV player had more tools available to deal with strafing than a DD (or I guess most surface ships) now has to deal with rework CVs. How do you think teams should feel about reworked CVs?

What tool had a worse CV? He got deleted, and then his team mates get deleted. There a couple of videos, where you can see, how BBs almost get one shotted.

When I play BB, idc if my CV is bad or not, I have to deal with the enemy CV, though if I get fighters placed, that also can help.

 

I just remember, when I played Nagato, moving with a Mogami and a Tirpitz together and, I believe it was a Lexington came across and one-hitted the Tirpitz, a few minutes later, he came to me, and one hitted me. Especially for BBs now it's so much better, a CV can't easily kill a BB; it takes really long. I mean, yes with some luck and one of the OP CVs it might be easier, but in general considering all CVs, it's not that easy.

In the 1vs1 brawl,the 3 CVs had no chance against my Kii :3
And when I play BB, I like to have CVs, because they can deal with those pesky DDs, which are more trouble for me (in a bb). But back then in RTS, It was mostly pretty bad for me to have a CV match

 

sidenote: I play mostly IJN; and those didn't had many good AA ships, except the Kii and Akizuki ^^

[Prophecy82]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You mean after the -11 karma? :D

He wouldnt notice since he had none in the beginning.  

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

What tool had a worse CV? He got deleted, and then his team mates get deleted. There a couple of videos, where you can see, how BBs almost get one shotted.

 

Worse CV still gets deleted, just by flak and not by fighters. His teammates likewise get deleted, this time without any counterplay whatsoever.

There are also videos where surface ships delete planes.

 

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Especially for BBs now it's so much better, a CV can't easily kill a BB; it takes really long. I mean, yes with some luck and one of the OP CVs it might be easier, but in general considering all CVs, it's not that easy.

 

Meta high tier CVs have the same or superior damage output. There is nothing that a RTS CV kills that a reworked CV cannot kill faster. This has been proven in both tests in controlled environments as well as actual gameplay. To label them as overpowered is extremely laughable since they're simply the standard to measure against. You could also pick weaker representatives with RTS CVs that couldn't do what you attribute to them yet you don't. Hypocrisy much?

 

Your pathetic narrative holds no basis in reality as usual and since this is far from the first time one can only infer malicious intent behind your repeated blatant lies.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

13 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I just remember, when I played Nagato, moving with a Mogami and a Tirpitz together and, I believe it was a Lexington came across and one-hitted the Tirpitz, a few minutes later, he came to me, and one hitted me

Anectodal evidence much?

I can count the times I got one-hitted by RTS CVs in any ship (of any class) on the fingers of my two hands... at least if I forget the - still also rare - occasions where I thought "Oh well, looks like only one torpedo will hit me.. I can take that... Ooops detonation..."

 

Interaction between CVs now are nearly completely zero (mostly...) so in the end the faster killer - which is usually the more skilled player - does better without even having to bother about the enemy CV until the end.

During RTS times he had to either take out the enemy CV right at the start - which at least took some time in which the other ships were unmolested - or be on the watch for enemy fighters messing up his attacks and draining his plane resources. So while an Unicorn CV RTS player of course nearly always guaranteed a win over a potato CV RTS player, it at least took him some effort when he was faced was a better than average opponent. And he couldn't just ignore him as he can now...

 

II was no CV unicum in RTS times... still at least until the strafing was implemented - and even for the short while that I played CVs after that - I managed winrates of 58%+ with my T5+ CVs (never was interested in going higher... I knew my skill ceiling even then already...) and I don't remember getting ever outplayed by an enemy CV player without having at least the chance to annoy him at least for a while. Not that I met that many Unicorn CV players - neither in my CVs nor in my other ships - with there seemingly only being a quite low number even then.

 

In the end the reeework did only change the amount whine that gets served. During RTS times it was mostly potato BB players - who whine about about every thing that threatens their ability to straight-sail around the map and go booom-booom with their big guns, but never used to learn the WASD-hack - and the occassional annihilated cruiser that complained about mostly Unicorn CVs, while now it's kinda all players that say reeworked CVs s*ck, except for them CV players that now have a solid base for winrate % and experience... while even several Unicorn CV players agree that the reeework didn't bring anything positive.

[UnderDuress]

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

What tool had a worse CV? He got deleted

I will leave the RTS counter play talk to better players than me.
But bad player getting punished by better player should be the way pvp works. Player skill should be a major factor in pvp games right?

[Sprockett]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Worse CV still gets deleted, just by flak and not by fighters. His teammates likewise get deleted, this time without any counterplay whatsoever.

There are also videos where surface ships delete planes.

 

 

Meta high tier CVs have the same or superior damage output. There is nothing that a RTS CV kills that a reworked CV cannot kill faster. This has been proven in both tests in controlled environments as well as actual gameplay.

 

Your pathetic narrative holds no basis in reality as usual and since this is far from the first time one can only infer malicious intent behind your repeated blatant lies.

The RTS cv was a heavily skilled ship to A) do well in and B) to be Unicom in.  There used to be many dedicated YouTube channels for RTS Cv players, due to the high skill set required to even be a 50% win rate player.(There are none now)

 

If, back in RTS days, if I got killed in a single strike from the CV (in the process I shot 10 planes down)- I was not salty as it took a lot of skill to cross drop and manage fighters and DFAA (when it meant something) and the fact that  I might have also shot down a considerable % of his planes. (there was no plane factory - they started with x amount of planes and  that was that). 

 

CV in RTS days was about 1 in 10 matches. You also had ships that were total CV no go areas, which was great for being able to gain map control. Now that is not the case. The fact that the CV will get a strike in - irrelevant of the AA package that you put into your ship. Am i the only one who notices my AA stops firing as the CV comes in for attack - then starts up once they have dropped their ordinance?

 

It is rigged for game experience now. Not skill. Personally i have played 2 matches in CV (reworked) and found it an immensely dull experience.

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

just remember, when I played Nagato, moving with a Mogami and a Tirpitz together and, I believe it was a Lexington came across and one-hitted the Tirpitz, a few minutes later, he came to me, and one hitted me.

I call BS, that is just impossible to one-shot a BB. 

RNG will never give you a heap of detonations in a row. 

 

EDIT: even RTS CVs couldn't do it. Maybe twice a whole match.

[1MajorKoenig]

2 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I call BS, that is just impossible to one-shot a BB. 

RNG will never give you a heap of detonations in a row. 

 

EDIT: even RTS CVs couldn't do it. Maybe twice a whole match.

Yesterday I detonated a Nelson - it’s possible but not super likely to pull that off twice in a game 

 

Btw is it true that torps aimed for the magazine have a higher chance for a det? Or is that another myth?

[UnderDuress]

6 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Btw is it true that torps aimed for the magazine have a higher chance for a det? Or is that another myth?

I thought detonations can only happen if the magazine hit box gets damaged. So yes I guess.

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Yesterday I detonated a Nelson - it’s possible but not super likely to pull that off twice in a game 

I have ONCE detonated a Montana... but he was already at ~70% before I hit him. 

And he ate a full load of Implacable torps. Never have detonated any other BB. 

In RTS, all that I ever got was cruisers (which is still rare) or a DD (that happened quite a lot... still does). 

I wanna know how many sheep do you need to pay to RNGesus... 

 

Quote

Btw is it true that torps aimed for the magazine have a higher chance for a det? Or is that another myth?

True. But detonation happens ONLY when the ship is below 75%, Which think is bubkus. 

If a ship is at 100% it can go beneath 75% due to a full salvo, and then the last shell/bomb/torp can cause detonation.

I have detonated lots of full HP cruisers... That said, I have been detonated more than I have dealt them...

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detonation

[Too4sfull]

I want to suggest attaching airplane HP to the carrier's HP. When the airplanes loses its HP, the carrier HP is being depleted. The damage done to airplanes is counted as damage done to ships.  To balance this, carriers would get more hp than any other ship class. Their planes could not be depleted. You can send full squadrons as long as you have HP to match it. Say, one airplane has 1000 HP. When the HP is depleted the ship is sunk - game over.  I think this would also be rewarding to players who are targeted by enemy CV, because when their AA does damage to the enemy planes it counts as damage to the enemy CV.

[El2aZeR]

5 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Btw is it true that torps aimed for the magazine have a higher chance for a det? Or is that another myth?

 

A detonation can only occur if the magazine takes damage, yes. However because the magazine is a module you can also detonate from splash damage which causes no HP damage. This is why no hit detonations can occur typically from large caliber HE shells or bombs on DDs as the HE splash damage transfers into the magazine even if they miss.