General CV related discussions.

[Asakka]

It be like that when you balance it with more rng.

[DFens_666]

7 hours ago, mcboernester said:

Massive rng is always an excellent way to keep ships fun and engaging

 

There is RNG so that both sides can feel screwed We only tend to remember the negative stuff

- BB sized gaps in our torps / 2 torps stacked ontop to hit our bow

- Getting no permafires as a cruiser / receving 2 fires right away after DCP

- Getting only overpens on a broadside cruiser / getting citadelled despite being angled.

[Drs_Adelaar]

I like CVs, even if their performance is utterly unpredictable: With higher tier matches you tend to serve as air confetti only, with lower to equal tier you can do well if the enemy does poor.

What I absolutely hate is this community of griefers, who yell at you for being a CV, punish you for it by downrepping you, or whatever. I just can't believe there are people who have such a tiny peanut of a brain that they turn to punishing players for something they don't like.

 

Just fyi, I barely play CVs, but when I do I tend to lose a rep point for a battle played. I'm sorry, but that's just being pitiful. I bet the same thing will happen with submarines, because some people just can't handle a type of combat vehicle that is different than what they know, or whatever is their reasoning for hating a completely legitimate type of vessel.

 

Either WG needs to fix the players, or remove the repsystem so that people who play for their amusement don't get it *edit*

[DFens_666]

Am 6.1.2021 um 22:10, Drs_Adelaar sagte:

so that people who play for their amusement don't get it *edit*

 

Thats exactly what CVs do to all of those who are not CVs

[Drs_Adelaar]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Thats exactly what CVs do to all of those who are not CVs

I'm sorry, but that comes across to me as rather pettyful. With all due respect to your opinion of course. Just one CV, with proper counters you can almost nullify it's effectiveness, yet he's spoiling your fun??? What? How?

And then, why do you blame the player in the CV? I'm not going to downrep you just because you're a DD and you killed my BB with a volley of torps, spoiling my fun... But people go mental over a few aircraft. I just don't get it.

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, Drs_Adelaar said:

I'm sorry, but that comes across to me as rather pettyful. With all due respect to your opinion of course. Just one CV, with proper counters you can almost nullify it's effectiveness, yet he's spoiling your fun??? What? How?

And then, why do you blame the player in the CV? I'm not going to downrep you just because you're a DD and you killed my BB with a volley of torps, spoiling my fun... But people go mental over a few aircraft. I just don't get it.

 

So you have mostly played T4 CVs, please tell me, how were you countered by ships that actually have 0 AA? Quite frankly, your results are not so bad that i would believe you have 0 effectiveness. Thus even you should acknowledge, CVs can not be countered. And if you feel you are, there are people out there who have no issue sinking basicly any ship at will.

But here is a list, why CVs spoil the fun

- He can pick you as a target, regardless of where you are on the map. Even if there are teammates which he should be attacking first, he can still go for you.

- He loses nothing for attacking you, you risk your own HP and eventually your ship

- CVs can spot any target at will at any place on the map, making flanking maneuvers useless. Also planes are like 5-6 times faster than ships, so a ship has to plan his movements minutes in advance, and a CV can just come in there and ruin it for you. Also, every enemy player can shoot upon the spotting of the CV.

- Most CVs have an optimal type of weapon against any ship they encounter, thus they can always beat any ship.

- If you want to kill a CV, you need to get closer, which results in the CV becoming stronger = more strikes per time

- Usually CVs are 2 categories: Those that shut themselves down against flak, and even if they do not, their drops are so bad that you can actually dodge them. A CV player, that is capable of dodging Flak receives minor damage/plane losses and is often capable of executing perfect drops. You cant defend yourself with AA, and you cant migitate his damage by turning. Its entirely up to the CV to get the perfect approach, because once again, his planes are much faster and more nimble than your ship is.

- CVs make players camp in spawn, because moving up makes you a prime target for the CV.

 

Essentially, CVs are unfun to play with or against. Having a CV on your team brings very little to the table. He might not spot for you, because he is on the other side, yet the enemy CV can just strike you. CVs also have only an ineffective way of helping others with AA (not to mention they can utilize those fighters better for themselves, at best they can spot for teammates when the CV is cycling through his attack runs)

CVs are only there to farm damage on surface ships, without much (if any) interaction for the players in those ships. Essentially, they are just griefing other players.

 

You might not report a DD for torping you - but others certainly do. Salty reports happen to everyone, but CVs do get more of them. However, this doesnt do anything, so i fail to see how you getting reported is spoiling your fun? What do reports do to actually hurt you in any way?

[ForlornSailor]

28 minutes ago, Drs_Adelaar said:

I'm sorry, but that comes across to me as rather pettyful. With all due respect to your opinion of course. Just one CV, with proper counters you can almost nullify it's effectiveness, yet he's spoiling your fun??? What? How?

And then, why do you blame the player in the CV? I'm not going to downrep you just because you're a DD and you killed my BB with a volley of torps, spoiling my fun... But people go mental over a few aircraft. I just don't get it. 

 

Lets go to the training room, Ill play a T4 CV, you can pick any T4 ship you like. Lets say, we do this 4 hours? Counter me. You in?

PS: Dont forget to congratulate me everytime I kill you for the great game Ive played. Everything else would be... quite pityful wouldnt you agree?

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Drs_Adelaar said:

With higher tier matches you tend to serve as air confetti only, with lower to equal tier you can do well if the enemy does poor.

 

@Zuihou_Kai be a good buddy and fetch me some popcorn, please? 

[Drs_Adelaar]

1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Lets go to the training room, Ill play a T4 CV, you can pick any T4 ship you like. Lets say, we do this 4 hours? Counter me. You in?

PS: Dont forget to congratulate me everytime I kill you for the great game Ive played. Everything else would be... quite pityful wouldnt you agree?

This is an argument that is completely besides the point
1) I never was talking about congratulating anyone. If I get killed in a T4 by a CV that's how it is. You don't here me complaining about eating BB salvoes in a T5 CA.
2) Never did I mention that lower tier CVs are not OP for their tier, considering the usually weak AA on lower tier vessels

 

 

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

So you have mostly played T4 CVs, please tell me, how were you countered by ships that actually have 0 AA? Quite frankly, your results are not so bad that i would believe you have 0 effectiveness. Thus even you should acknowledge, CVs can not be countered. And if you feel you are, there are people out there who have no issue sinking basicly any ship at will.

But here is a list, why CVs spoil the fun

Again, you, like your shaft buddy you're trying to pin this on T4 while I never said anything about disbalance. I personally played CVs in T4 only for grind and the occasional play, but knowing how they're so badly countered I can't get myself to grind more CV captains in those tiers because, well, it's unfair. I play a fair amount of ships with little to no AA for fun (T3 Dreadnought), you still won't here me complain about "unfair" mechanics. Come on, not everything will move in your way all the time.

 

 

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

- He can pick you as a target, regardless of where you are on the map. Even if there are teammates which he should be attacking first, he can still go for you.

- He loses nothing for attacking you, you risk your own HP and eventually your ship

- CVs can spot any target at will at any place on the map, making flanking maneuvers useless. Also planes are like 5-6 times faster than ships, so a ship has to plan his movements minutes in advance, and a CV can just come in there and ruin it for you. Also, every enemy player can shoot upon the spotting of the CV.

- Most CVs have an optimal type of weapon against any ship they encounter, thus they can always beat any ship.

- If you want to kill a CV, you need to get closer, which results in the CV becoming stronger = more strikes per time

- Usually CVs are 2 categories: Those that shut themselves down against flak, and even if they do not, their drops are so bad that you can actually dodge them. A CV player, that is capable of dodging Flak receives minor damage/plane losses and is often capable of executing perfect drops. You cant defend yourself with AA, and you cant migitate his damage by turning. Its entirely up to the CV to get the perfect approach, because once again, his planes are much faster and more nimble than your ship is.

- CVs make players camp in spawn, because moving up makes you a prime target for the CV.

- He can pick you as a target if you lone wolf it, otherwise, your combat group will slay aircraft faster than he can land hits.
- He can spot any target at any place, but he won't always do so because he needs to be sure you're there or it'll only cost him time. I do acknowledge that it makes flanking rather difficult. But again: Two sides to this, it helps your allies and makes life harder on the enemy, it's not necessarily a bad thing. The spotting and shooting point is fair and correct, no argueing there.

- I don't see the problem with point 4

- If you down his wings he won't be able to strike in force, and he might even end up being depleted of wings.

- You usually can migitate damage by turning, unless you're absolutely oblivious to the things happening around you or you're in a lumbering BB. Even then, you will be able to make things hard for a CV wing while he has to stay inside your AA bubble. Again, player skill.

- I don't see at all how CVs turn people into campers :/

 

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

Essentially, CVs are unfun to play with or against. Having a CV on your team brings very little to the table. He might not spot for you, because he is on the other side, yet the enemy CV can just strike you. CVs also have only an ineffective way of helping others with AA (not to mention they can utilize those fighters better for themselves, at best they can spot for teammates when the CV is cycling through his attack runs)

CVs are only there to farm damage on surface ships, without much (if any) interaction for the players in those ships. Essentially, they are just griefing other players.

 

You might not report a DD for torping you - but others certainly do. Salty reports happen to everyone, but CVs do get more of them. However, this doesnt do anything, so i fail to see how you getting reported is spoiling your fun? What do reports do to actually hurt you in any way?

I do agree with the general gist of this last paragraph. CVs tend to be running their own battle. There is little interaction and not being able to actively support players with AA bubbles is a downside.

Disagree on the griefing part, they're just doing their job as a combat unit, nothing more.

 

The fact that other people report DDs, or any player who are just doing their job, should lead to the reporting player to be kicked from this game entirely :) Personally I play this game for my enjoyment, and I don't particulary find salty players to be a part of said enjoyment.

 

 

[AndyHill]

24 minutes ago, Drs_Adelaar said:

you still won't here me complain about "unfair" mechanics.

But why not? Wouldn't the game be better for everyone if people brought up unfair mechanics when they run into such things and then the devs fixed them?

25 minutes ago, Drs_Adelaar said:

He can spot any target at any place, but he won't always do so because he needs to be sure you're there or it'll only cost him time. I do acknowledge that it makes flanking rather difficult. But again: Two sides to this, it helps your allies and makes life harder on the enemy, it's not necessarily a bad thing

It takes skill away from the game and reduces options for everyone. I'm confident enough in my skills to be able to handle complicated environments better than most and I want the game to be fair for everyone, so I want neither mine nor the reds' tactical options limited by carriers. This is BTW also why people turn into campers when carriers are in play; the closest ships are more likely to be attacked, spotting makes aggressive moves extremely dangerous and the damage mitigation maneuvers you mentioned only work if you are not within effective range of enemy ships.

[Drs_Adelaar]

1 minute ago, AndyHill said:

But why not? Wouldn't the game be better for everyone if people brought up unfair mechanics when they run into such things and then the devs fixed them?

It takes skill away from the game and reduces options for everyone. I'm confident enough in my skills to be able to handle complicated environments better than most and I want the game to be fair for everyone, so I want neither mine nor the reds' tactical options limited by carriers. This is BTW also why people turn into campers when carriers are in play; the closest ships are more likely to be attacked, spotting makes aggressive moves extremely dangerous and the damage mitigation maneuvers you mentioned only work if you are not within effective range of enemy ships.

I'm on mobile now and autocorrect (English is not my native language) is infuriating so I'll keep it short: I personally believe a game can never be fully balanced and without unfair mechanics. Neither is the real world. I don't even think a game developer should wish to make a game that is completely balanced, as It'll also be unfun and plain. That doesn't mean we shouldnt point out the problems, but I will never ever turn my ire against a player for feeling unfairly treated by a game. That's just wrong.

[NotSellingMyLinkies]

So about German CVs, I'm currently grinding them but those enemy DDs are a real pain.

I've been trying to torp them over and over with no luck.

Does anyone have a video or something on how much i should lead my torps for the best chance to score a hit?

[AndyHill]

6 minutes ago, Drs_Adelaar said:

I personally believe a game can never be fully balanced and without unfair mechanics. Neither is the real world. I don't even think a game developer should wish to make a game that is completely balanced, as It'll also be unfun and plain.

To be honest this doesn't make any sense to me. It is true that total balance can be difficult to attain, but there's no reason to not try to get as close as possible. Also I've never heard of generally positive correlation between unbalancedness and fun, intuitively it's completely opposite, especially in multiplayer games.

9 minutes ago, Drs_Adelaar said:

That doesn't mean we shouldnt point out the problems, but I will never ever turn my ire against a player for feeling unfairly treated by a game. That's just wrong.

It's true that it's not the carrier players' fault that CVs exist in the form they do right now and they shouldn't really get flak for it. However, if someone reports me or starts complaining when I'm carriering, I understand perfectly well why they feel like having been griefed even though I play perfectly within the game's rules.

[Farheim]

47 minutes ago, NotSellingMyLinkies said:

So about German CVs, I'm currently grinding them but those enemy DDs are a real pain.

I've been trying to torp them over and over with no luck.

Does anyone have a video or something on how much i should lead my torps for the best chance to score a hit?

You can watch TopTier videos, they can be fairly educational. 
https://www.youtube.com/c/TopTierwows/videos

[mcboernester]

50 minutes ago, NotSellingMyLinkies said:

So about German CVs, I'm currently grinding them but those enemy DDs are a real pain.

I've been trying to torp them over and over with no luck.

Does anyone have a video or something on how much i should lead my torps for the best chance to score a hit?

Those are the 35 knots Torps for T6 and 8 right? 

 

In that case -> i have an old GZ replay , she uses the same torps. There are no drop indicators cause its a replay but you should get an idea

 

 

5 minutes ago, Farheim said:

You can watch TopTier videos, they can be fairly educational. 
https://www.youtube.com/c/TopTierwows/videos

How to trigger every unicum player out there ....

[Farheim]

5 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

How to trigger every unicum player out there ....

Well I'm a unicum CV myself but I enjoyed watching his videos ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So a new player can learn something from them aswell.

[mcboernester]

5 minutes ago, Farheim said:

Well I'm a unicum CV myself but I enjoyed watching his videos ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So a new player can learn something from them aswell.

He spreads alot of false knowledge in terms of Balancing for example and has horrible target priorisation. Can't take him serious. Unfortunately most good CV players stopped with the start of the rework  but if had to recommend somebody nowadays it would be Gaishu https://www.twitch.tv/gaishu

 

Just my 2 cents though 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

@Zuihou_Kai be a good buddy and fetch me some popcorn, please? 

 

yes 

[geschlittert]

On 1/4/2021 at 1:09 PM, CptBarney said:

hololive

OH NO (to be fair - "to" with one o)

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Lets go to the training room, Ill play a T4 CV, you can pick any T4 ship you like. Lets say, we do this 4 hours? Counter me. You in?

PS: Dont forget to congratulate me everytime I kill you for the great game Ive played. Everything else would be... quite pityful wouldnt you agree?

can we do that? Please let me do it with u 

[COPlUM]

4 hours ago, Drs_Adelaar said:

Just one CV, with proper counters you can almost nullify it's effectiveness, yet he's spoiling your fun??? What? How?

T4 CV planes can hover over the AA of a T4 surface ship for the entire duration of the match and not lose planes. People complain about T10 CVs getting 3-4 strikes in before the planes go down, well, a Hosho gets 100 strikes in on an Isokaze, the only limiting factor is 20 minutes run out. If you were to set up a match with one well played Hosho against fifteen isokazes, Hosho would win, might take awhile, but its just a matter of time.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

T4 CV planes can hover over the AA of a T4 surface ship for the entire duration of the match and not lose planes. People complain about T10 CVs getting 3-4 strikes in before the planes go down, well, a Hosho gets 100 strikes in on an Isokaze, the only limiting factor is 20 minutes run out. If you were to set up a match with one well played Hosho against fifteen isokazes, Hosho would win, might take awhile, but its just a matter of time.

uhm. no. Just 1 Isokaze is enough to sink the Hosho. 

[Phayk]

2 topics, 500 pages later...

 

Not a single argument that supports why CVs should be in the game from a gameplay perspective.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

4 minutes ago, Phayk said:

2 topics, 500 pages later...

 

Not a single argument that supports why CVs should be in the game from a gameplay perspective.

Isn't needed. What we say in here doesn't matter anyway

 

[ForlornSailor]

12 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

can we do that? Please let me do it with u 

 

But then I get to pick, which you play mkay :D (gonna put you in a nice, slow BB xD)

Well, would be a nice practice to try and hit a DD, im not that good at it - mostly due to lack of interest in playing CVs or usualy someone else claims this spot in the division so I dont need to. But yea, im kinda lacking the drive (and time) to invest efford in playing the class.