General CV related discussions.

[nooo6]

Have some proposal:

Split the scouting and damaging functions for CV.

1. Scouts can be in air unlimited (time and distance)

2. Once scout find someone the damaging squadron takes off but scouts shall return.

3. Damaging squadron has limits for distance and flight time.

4. And it is good if he has only one attack.

 

The interesting mechanic to pick up pilots from water by team ships. And restore planes on CV only if pilot were collected.

[arquata2019_]

16 ore fa, Capra76 ha scritto:

 

you're a genius

no seriously, for a paper, he flew pretty good... (halo 2 reference)

no but like no seriously, that paper didn't last long 0.0, am i the next having the same fate? no please

[MacFergus]

Here are a few ideas i had for CVs , I do want to keep them in the game they are an integral part of any Warships game and for that reason alone should not be removed.

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1/ Remove spotting from all CVs

 

2/ Remove tier 4 CV from Game

 

3/ Reduce armour on CVs

 

4/ Limit Squadrons to an exact amount such as 16 planes from each group now including fighters that are manually launched instead of auto launched.

 

5/ Increase alpha damage on CVs.

 

6/ Give a unique skill to CVs that allows them to fix and repair squadrons like the Repair on a ship its a consumable with 4 uses that repairs 10% of your planes.

 

7/ Planes should have a separate tech tree where you can arm and decide upgrades for your planes , Rocket planes should be removed.

 

8/ The Ability to dodge flak should be removed.

 

9/ The chance to cause a fire on a CV should be increased.

 

10/ Plane management is a unique skill in the captains skill tree that allows you to swap out 1 squadron for different squadron.

 

11/ Fighter cover allows the CV to send planes to protect ships they are limited like the squadrons so when they are gone they are gone.

 

12/ Nation focus , Japanese have less hp on planes but high alpha damage on all ordnance , USA has better fighters late game and excellent dive bombers , Ze Germans have great fighters all round and but poor ordinance , Very fast planes , The British have the most hp on planes and average ordinance but the slowest planes.

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I hope some of these ideas meet with approval by the community , I really want carriers to stay as part of the game but not hated like they are now i think its a well balanced set of ideas what do you think people?.

[Auerstedt]

Just make AA do actual dmg again... and no more plane groups snapping back to full HP when shot down please. Make AA be able to actually defend your ship, thanks.

[MacFergus]

16 minutes ago, Auerstedt said:

Just make AA do actual dmg again... and no more plane groups snapping back to full HP when shot down please. Make AA be able to actually defend your ship, thanks.

 

It does do damage the fact that CVs can by pass it by dodging flak and strike regardless needs to be addressed however CVs will always pick on that ship that's alone and sniping you cant expect your AA to fend off attacks if you a lonesome wolf.

 

In a recent game a Florida shot down 40 of my planes i barely managed to get him to half health it was 1v1 and he won , He just closed the distance on me so AA does work.

 

And i agree it should be a set amount of planes with a consumable to repair like 10% only useable a few times.

[Spruss]

4 ore fa, MacFergus ha scritto:

Here are a few ideas i had for CVs , I do want to keep them in the game they are an integral part of any Warships game and for that reason alone should not be removed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1/ Remove spotting from all CVs

 

2/ Remove tier 4 CV from Game

 

3/ Reduce armour on CVs

 

4/ Limit Squadrons to an exact amount such as 16 planes from each group now including fighters that are manually launched instead of auto launched.

 

5/ Increase alpha damage on CVs.

 

6/ Give a unique skill to CVs that allows them to fix and repair squadrons like the Repair on a ship its a consumable with 4 uses that repairs 10% of your planes.

 

7/ Planes should have a separate tech tree where you can arm and decide upgrades for your planes , Rocket planes should be removed.

 

8/ The Ability to dodge flak should be removed.

 

9/ The chance to cause a fire on a CV should be increased.

 

10/ Plane management is a unique skill in the captains skill tree that allows you to swap out 1 squadron for different squadron.

 

11/ Fighter cover allows the CV to send planes to protect ships they are limited like the squadrons so when they are gone they are gone.

 

12/ Nation focus , Japanese have less hp on planes but high alpha damage on all ordnance , USA has better fighters late game and excellent dive bombers , Ze Germans have great fighters all round and but poor ordinance , Very fast planes , The British have the most hp on planes and average ordinance but the slowest planes.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I hope some of these ideas meet with approval by the community , I really want carriers to stay as part of the game but not hated like they are now i think its a well balanced set of ideas what do you think people?.

oh well, my 2 cents on that

1) agree, spotting needs a nerf

2) at least fix them on one per side

3) kind of agree, doesn't bother me

4) IF there are some counters to the small amount of plane blappers yes

5) IF total planes decreased but you can still get some chance vs higher aas yep

6) ok, fixes the previous points

7) agree on rockets, a chance can be remove them and increase squad numbers on other types

8) nope, with reduced numbers, despite a higher heal effect, means cv will have no influence at all during the game. the difference between a good cv and a bad one is that the good has still planes at the end of the game. this fix will just increase the difference between good cvs and bad cvs, meaning the good one will have a HUGE major  impact in a game vs a less skilled one

9) same as 3

10) how would/should it work?

11) it is already like that, the fighter consumable is limited 

12) kind of already like that, you mean to increase the difference between different nations? that could be nice, at least would provide a different approach to combat for each and every carrier

[MacFergus]

11 minutes ago, Spruss said:

oh well, my 2 cents on that

1) agree, spotting needs a nerf

2) at least fix them on one per side

3) kind of agree, doesn't bother me

4) IF there are some counters to the small amount of plane blappers yes

5) IF total planes decreased but you can still get some chance vs higher aas yep

6) ok, fixes the previous points

7) agree on rockets, a chance can be remove them and increase squad numbers on other types

8) nope, with reduced numbers, despite a higher heal effect, means cv will have no influence at all during the game. the difference between a good cv and a bad one is that the good has still planes at the end of the game. this fix will just increase the difference between good cvs and bad cvs, meaning the good one will have a HUGE major  impact in a game vs a less skilled one

9) same as 3

10) how would/should it work?

11) it is already like that, the fighter consumable is limited 

12) kind of already like that, you mean to increase the difference between different nations? that could be nice, at least would provide a different approach to combat for each and every carrier

To address you points.

 

I would like Fighters to be playable but in very limited numbers and they also have a chance of being shot down by rear gunners.

 

The captain skill of plane management would mean swapping squadrons ie he might want more torp bombers as oppose to dive bombers.

 

Yes i would love to see more variation to the nations with abject weakness and strengths we do see this a little but I would love to see more. 

 

I do want to see CVs combat CVs however i don't want to see CV sniping as before.

[Auerstedt]

21 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

It does do damage the fact that CVs can by pass it by dodging flak and strike regardless needs to be addressed however CVs will always pick on that ship that's alone and sniping you cant expect your AA to fend off attacks if you a lonesome wolf.

 

In a recent game a Florida shot down 40 of my planes i barely managed to get him to half health it was 1v1 and he won , He just closed the distance on me so AA does work.

 

And i agree it should be a set amount of planes with a consumable to repair like 10% only useable a few times.

Last game I shot down 34 planes,. while several cruisers were with me...still got relentlessky focused by that flying cancer and consequently sunk by him. In my Gneisenau no less. The torpedo-bombers snapping back to full HP after their lifebar was down and getting off a strike anyway is pure [edited]. 

[MacFergus]

6 minutes ago, Auerstedt said:

Last game I shot down 34 planes,. while several cruisers were with me...still got relentlessky focused by that flying cancer and consequently sunk by him. In my Gneisenau no less. The torpedo-bombers snapping back to full HP after their lifebar was down and getting off a strike anyway is pure [edited]. 

 

Yeah if a CV is persistent he will sink you regardless but think of this way he wasting a lot of planes that might come back to bite him in the arse so in effect you took one for the team but the team might have benefited in the long run.

 

BBs are my last target personally i always go for DDs and Cruisers my damage output is quite low because of this but i maintain a respectable WR in generalby trying to effect the game than farm damage but i will improve i hope.

[Auerstedt]

10 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

Yeah if a CV is persistent he will sink you regardless but think of this way he wasting a lot of planes that might come back to bite him in the arse so in effect you took one for the team but the team might have benefited in the long run.

 

BBs are my last target personally i always go for DDs and Cruisers my damage output is quite low because of this but i maintain a respectable WR in generalby trying to effect the game than farm damage but i will improve i hope.

The simple fact is that there is no actual counterplay. When a CV decides wto pick *you* for this match you*re boned, more even than when a skilled smolensk-dude does. You can't shoot back, you can't evade, you can't defend. And that sucks hairy balls.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

12 minutes ago, Auerstedt said:

The simple fact is that there is no actual counterplay. When a CV decides wto pick *you* for this match you*re boned, more even than when a skilled smolensk-dude does. You can't shoot back, you can't evade, you can't defend. And that sucks hairy balls.

But you can do all that. If the CV is truly dedicated in wanting you dead all you need to do is not be in range of his teammates and he can't touch you anymore depending on what DD you are in. 

Yes he gets you out of the game but at the same time he is out of the game himself. And a CV is higher on the influence rating than you in your DD

[MacFergus]

3 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

But you can do all that. If the CV is truly dedicated in wanting you dead all you need to do is not be in range of his teammates and he can't touch you anymore depending on what DD you are in. 

Yes he gets you out of the game but at the same time he is out of the game himself. And a CV is higher on the influence rating than you in your DD

I think he's referring to BBs Zuihou

[SV_Kompresor]

As long as CV gameplay remains fundamentally different from the rest, they'll never be truly balanced. They'll never be both fun to play and fun to play against at the same time because they're so completely separated from other classes. WG should've toyed far more with the idea of giving CVs a similar gameplay style to other ships.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

21 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

As long as CV gameplay remains fundamentally different from the rest, they'll never be truly balanced. They'll never be both fun to play and fun to play against at the same time because they're so completely separated from other classes. WG should've toyed far more with the idea of giving CVs a similar gameplay style to other ships.

Honestly I would have loved CVs work like this:

 

Control only the CV and a few of their secondaries manually if needed. To take off and strike you have to select the squadron then open the map and assign squares to which they will automatically fly. You issue one of 2 commands:

 

Accurate precise drop from the side/avoid strong AA presence on the way

 

Drop asap without angle adjustment/ ignore strong AA presence

 

 

Now the squadron takes off after a short prep time and flies to that square you assigned. It will target The ship closest to the square you assigned AND ONLY IF there is a ship within a certain range of that square. 

 

If you send your planes and they don't find anything in range they just return without striking. 

 

 

Same for fighters. You assign Squares for a fighter patrol to automatically stay in that area similar to current fighters. They will intercept the enemy squadrons if they enter that fighters patrol range. 

 

All this happens automatically and you have no control over the accuracy of your strikes. However the alpha is adjusted accordingly. 

 

 

This way:

 

You can't actively spot anymore. You have to rely on what your team is spotting and send your planes to the right places for them to successfully find a target. 

You are constantly on your CVs hull so you have full control over your ship and can meanwhile focus on the map if you so wish. 

Your fighters can not be cheeses anymore. You have to predict where the enemy CV will send his planes to successfully defend your team. 

There is no going back or recalling (maybe a consumable can allow it). Once you send them they are out. 

AA can be adjusted so the strike effectiveness is getting less the more AA is to be found in the area you send your strike into. 

 

 

@El2aZeR

Would love your input on this too, not that it matters but this was how I wished they would rework CVs. 

[1MajorKoenig]

26 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

Honestly I would have loved CVs work like this:

 

Control only the CV and a few of their secondaries manually if needed. To take off and strike you have to select the squadron then open the map and assign squares to which they will automatically fly. You issue one of 2 commands:

 

Accurate precise drop from the side/avoid strong AA presence on the way

 

Drop asap without angle adjustment/ ignore strong AA presence

 

 

Now the squadron takes off after a short prep time and flies to that square you assigned. It will target The ship closest to the square you assigned AND ONLY IF there is a ship within a certain range of that square. 

 

If you send your planes and they don't find anything in range they just return without striking. 

 

 

Same for fighters. You assign Squares for a fighter patrol to automatically stay in that area similar to current fighters. They will intercept the enemy squadrons if they enter that fighters patrol range. 

 

All this happens automatically and you have no control over the accuracy of your strikes. However the alpha is adjusted accordingly. 

 

 

This way:

 

You can't actively spot anymore. You have to rely on what your team is spotting and send your planes to the right places for them to successfully find a target. 

You are constantly on your CVs hull so you have full control over your ship and can meanwhile focus on the map if you so wish. 

Your fighters can not be cheeses anymore. You have to predict where the enemy CV will send his planes to successfully defend your team. 

There is no going back or recalling (maybe a consumable can allow it). Once you send them they are out. 

AA can be adjusted so the strike effectiveness is getting less the more AA is to be found in the area you send your strike into. 

 

 

@El2aZeR

Would love your input on this too, not that it matters but this was how I wished they would rework CVs. 

This is probably the closest you would get to an actual CV commander of WW2. But in the realms of the game it would be pretty lame and not very immersive. 
 

Although I would play it - just because I like CVs in general. But you have to admit it would be extremely hard to bring skill into this gameplay. Basically you would be pressing two buttons ... 

[SV_Kompresor]

@Zuihou_Kai

 

My idea was slightly different. The way I thought of it was:

 

You control the CV like any other ship. The planes are launched the same way you fire your shells (albeit with a slight delay as they have to take off first). The area where they will drop their bombs or torpedoes or whatever is always marked for the CV player. This would basically turn planes into slower shells. If for balancing reasons the planes are made too slow for the CV to accurately predict where they should aim, the CV can be given one (or more, depending on balancing) chance to move the point where the planes would drop their payload.

 

The planes would also have limited range, so CV couldn't just sit at 25km constantly, but would have to move closer. Especially if it wanted to launch the next squad sooner. Hell, if that isn't enough, a range limit could be set based on the amount of time the match has been running, shortening the CV's range by like 20% by the end of the match. (Eg. You start with 26km range at tier 10 and by the end you're down to 21km.) That would force even the campiest of campers to move from that island on A1.

 

I would also give the CV the ability to instead of bombers, launch fighters in the same way. If the CV sees bomberds heading for a nearby ally, it could send fighters that would hopefully intercept those bombers if aimed well. And in turn, that would stop your CV from launching bombers in the mean time as you could only launch one squad at a time.

 

I would also give the CV manual secondary control, that way it would not be completely powerless if a DD snuck up on one (assuming it managed to dodge the torps). And if something larger managed to sneak up...well...the CV deservers to die.

[El2aZeR]

32 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

Would love your input on this too, not that it matters but this was how I wished they would rework CVs. 

 

Tbh that's just RTS but slower and less exciting, no?

Might be worth a test, but personally I don't believe it'd be particularly fun to play as you'd have too much time sitting around doing basically nothing.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

59 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

All this happens automatically and you have no control over the accuracy of your strikes. However the alpha is adjusted accordingly. 

 

 

Would be a great playstyle for a strategically game... but WoWs is not even tactical, but a pure action game (and not even simulation...) so while I (!) had no problems to CVs like this, WG will never even see something as this as an option, because even RTS wasn't enough action for their targeted customer group...

 

And, honestly, I'd rather play the old RTS CVs - except strafing - with a little less alpha strike potential... which would still tons better than the reeeeworked CVs

[Panocek]

44 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

Honestly I would have loved CVs work like this:

 

Control only the CV and a few of their secondaries manually if needed. To take off and strike you have to select the squadron then open the map and assign squares to which they will automatically fly. You issue one of 2 commands:

 

Accurate precise drop from the side/avoid strong AA presence on the way

 

Drop asap without angle adjustment/ ignore strong AA presence

 

 

Now the squadron takes off after a short prep time and flies to that square you assigned. It will target The ship closest to the square you assigned AND ONLY IF there is a ship within a certain range of that square. 

 

If you send your planes and they don't find anything in range they just return without striking. 

 

 

Same for fighters. You assign Squares for a fighter patrol to automatically stay in that area similar to current fighters. They will intercept the enemy squadrons if they enter that fighters patrol range. 

 

All this happens automatically and you have no control over the accuracy of your strikes. However the alpha is adjusted accordingly. 

 

 

This way:

 

You can't actively spot anymore. You have to rely on what your team is spotting and send your planes to the right places for them to successfully find a target. 

You are constantly on your CVs hull so you have full control over your ship and can meanwhile focus on the map if you so wish. 

Your fighters can not be cheeses anymore. You have to predict where the enemy CV will send his planes to successfully defend your team. 

There is no going back or recalling (maybe a consumable can allow it). Once you send them they are out. 

AA can be adjusted so the strike effectiveness is getting less the more AA is to be found in the area you send your strike into. 

 

 

@El2aZeR

Would love your input on this too, not that it matters but this was how I wished they would rework CVs. 

Alternatively:

-go back to RTS

-rebalance squadron size and payload to avoid situation "this CV can oneshot battleship, better give it 3min reload"

-remove 3d spotting from strike aircrafts

-replace fighters with designated spotter aircraft, only kind of plane that can 3d spot for other players and is rather vulnerable to AA when doing so. Could carry ASW payload later on

-rework manual drop with gradually tightening dispersion since previous attack order  - constant adjustments to manual drop location would have no accuracy bonus over autodrop, but, should you set it early and get good prediction on enemy movement, you'd be rewarded with increased accuracy of bomb/torpedo run. Oh and enable it on all tiers.

[MadGunna]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Alternatively:

-go back to RTS

-rebalance squadron size and payload to avoid situation "this CV can oneshot battleship, better give it 3min reload"

-remove 3d spotting from strike aircrafts

-replace fighters with designated spotter aircraft, only kind of plane that can 3d spot for other players and is rather vulnerable to AA when doing so. Could carry ASW payload later on

-rework manual drop with gradually tightening dispersion since previous attack order  - constant adjustments to manual drop location would have no accuracy bonus over autodrop, but, should you set it early and get good prediction on enemy movement, you'd be rewarded with increased accuracy of bomb/torpedo run. Oh and enable it on all tiers.

I'd like to get fighters back, I loved to help my team by denying the enemy carrier strikes. Otherwise I'm ok with this.

 

To be fair I'd be happy with anything that involves a return to the old RTS era. Perhaps with the current system replacing alt+click for strikes, to really force a trade off between accuracy and plane survival versus map awareness/presence.

[COPlUM]

9 hours ago, MacFergus said:

9/ The chance to cause a fire on a CV should be increased.

What would that achieve, they are immune to flooding and can only burn for 5 seconds. Getting a fire on a T10 carrier is 2K damage.

[COPlUM]

I'll never change my mind on what CVs need : They need to no longer get a warning when their planes are spotted because unless you have a spare copy of your 21st chromosome, the moment your planes are spotted, you know exactly where the DD is, making the DD's air concealment an irrelevant stat.

[BLUB__BLUB]

I'd remove sp[otting in this way:

- planes on their way to a target fly above cloud and do not spot;

- attacking planes spot but only to a limited range, rest gets minimap. 

[Nibenay78]

15 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

Yes he gets you out of the game but at the same time he is out of the game himself. 

Doesn't sound like a type of game to play regularly. Sure in all games one ends up in a crap position and not much to do occationally.

If this is by design and happens frequently, gg.

[bobtherterrible]

Hello.

I appreciate I'm a noob so my opinion counts for little but here's some ideas on how to make CV's less likely to make people give up completely:

 

1) CV's only able to launch and recover aircraft when moving at at least 10kts 

 why? Stops camping and hiding behind islands or in a corner etc and makes CVs less invulnerable. Also more "realistic"

1a) As above but into "wind" i.e. in a particular direction

why? Stops CVs just going round and round in circles in the corner to comply with 1)

 

2) Because CVs can hide, it should matter a lot more when they are discovered so

2a) Any CV with fire or flood cannot launch.Again more "realistic"

2b) nerf CV AA  so that CVs are likely to attack each other. Again more "realistic"

 

3) Limited planes.

 

4) Make aircraft spotting distance relative to how fast the target is moving

why? Makes it harder for CVs to spot things. Again more "realistic" as aircraft often spot the wake rather than the ship.

 

Sorry, I'll go back in my box now.