General CV related discussions.

[st_dasa]

25 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

BBs,dds and cruisers are fun but the variety is getting boring, yes they bring out a new bb thats a better brawler or sniper but is it a gamer changer, does it add variety.....not really.

 

Ummm, then there's me, who has almost 8k battles and never had a case of boring with that perfect rock-scissors-paper system.

 

Btw. would you call games like AOE2 boring because you only play in a medieval period? Or dunno, WOT because there are just land vehicles? Hell, why are there no planes in WOT (and yes, I'm aware of the artillery)?

 

What you fail to understand is that there are good game mechanics, and there are game breaking ones. ''Boring'' can be so much easily avoided, if WG truly wanted, with stuff like adding more and interesting scenarios, new kinds of game modes, optimized ranked, perhaps new ammo types (SAP comes to mind) and other stuff.

 

CVs are in every sense, a pure game breaking mechanic. WG broke something that worked, and now there is no turning back. Only endless, fruitless argumentation of us players that leads to nothing because that is not how WG sees their own game.

[TheBradford]

21 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

if you balance for the best the bad players have something to strive for and a healthy environment to grow in

if you balance for the worst you leave easy things for the best to exploit and ruin everyones day 

dumbing down games leads to bad games 

balancing for a 3 year old will bore a 30 year old 

But you cant just balance the game for great players, dont get me wrong i know exactly where you are coming from. I was a massive total war nerd and they dumbed down their games for a time but i understood why, for the average player they just didn't have the time to invest into learning all the mechanic. But that wasnt what drove me away from total war it was more it was the same concept every game.

 

There has to be a balance right? a balance where classes are accessible to all not just great players and where players can learn while playing the class. As someone said i think the biggest issues with CVs is at tier 10 rather than 4-8 Cvs.

[LordBodoM]

Am I going crazy (most likely) or did they (indirectly) nerf CV's?

 

Stuff i noticed:

- DD's are much harder to spot now. I read in the dev blog about a 40-60% decrease in 'Air Detection Radius for all ships' but i could not find out when (or if) they implemented it.

- Turning your squadron around for a second attack after the first one is nearly impossible, most planes will die before you reach your target again.

- Bomb and Rocket dispersion is eratic at best. Sometimes they go where you aim, sometimes they go all over the place (both times i had the same conditions)

- Returning your squadron right after an attack still results in massive plane loss. Often the only ones who get back are the ones used in the initial attack run.

 

Now, i know a bit of balancing was due (in favor of dd's) but this might be a bit much.

The attack run-time of rockets and torps is longer than the spotting distance so you overshoot.

Only the slower bombers can engage after spotting but that's like spitting on a needle in a haystack on fire.

In a way I'm ok with all of this (because of reasons) but that'll mean spotting and hunting dd's will no longer be a priority.

Spending 5 minutes looking for a single dd is (most of the time) not a very good usage of your time and dmg.

 

So, am i the only one who noticed this? If so, it might be time to retire

[Capra76]

3 hours ago, st_dasa said:

Every week some absolute tool with MM monitor will focus me down because he can and I can't do anything about it. 

 

Hide your stats?

[TheBradford]

5 minutes ago, st_dasa said:

 

Ummm, then there's me, who has almost 8k battles and never had a case of boring with that perfect rock-scissors-paper system.

 

Btw. would you call games like AOE2 boring because you only play in a medieval period? Or dunno, WOT because there are just land vehicles? Hell, why are there no planes in WOT (and yes, I'm aware of the artillery)?

 

CVs are in every sense, a pure game breaking mechanic. WG broke something that worked, and now there is no turning back. Only endless, fruitless argumentation of us players that leads to nothing because that is not how WG sees their own game.

But there is AOE 3 and soon to be AOE 4, i dont think we will be getting a WOW 2 will we? So that point is pretty invalid unless you can show me evidence of WOW 2?

 

There will always be player who want more and those that want it not to change. I want variety and thats the way the game is heading so ill keep playing and player numbers are not declining so....

 

 

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

learning mechanics is what is fun

getting better is whats fun

if you dont like those things your better off watching a movie

it might take people who cant invest as much time a day longer but in a good environment everyone will learn eventually 

 

no there has to be balance

not balance designed to the players, just balance

so that players can practice and get good until they can get the most out of their ship in that balanced enviroment

as soon as you start balancing for a windowlicker you no longer have balance 

and players can go down tiers if they overreach to continue to learn

now you cant because t4 is pure hell

 

the only reason t6 is sometimes balanced is because they go up against t8 ships, the only reason t8 is sometimes balanced is because they go up against t10 ships

against their own tier or lower tier they are broken, completely and utterly broken 

[Kazomir]

4 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

Hide your stats?

Wait can you hide your stats in WoWs?

 

EDIT: F*** I just did it. Lets see if the countless of games where I am unusually focused will stop.

[TheBradford]

28 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

how long until subs and CVs will also be boring and they need to find something else to add to the game

your 4k games in and your bored, how does that speak of the health of the game with CVs included 

 

Im not bored but i can see myself getting bored, with the other competition out there. But i want WOW as i like it but it needs to keep up with its competition. 

There's plenty more WG can do, they can new games modes, more scenarios, more clan based activities, there's loads they can do. 

 

Since i started playing this game CVs were never an issue, i only realised there was an issue when i saw youtuber talking about them and then i played them lol and at first i thought they were kind of boring but then they i started to like them more.

[TheBradford]

3 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

against their own tier or lower tier they are broken, completely and utterly broken 

Yeah i dont think it is 

i find shooting down aircraft just find tier for tier. there has to ships with good AA and those with bad. You cant have every ship with great A unless whats the point in a CV

[arquata2019_]

Proprio ora, TheBradford ha scritto:

Since i started playing this game CVs were never an issue, i only realised there was an issue when i saw youtuber talking about them and then i played them lol and at first i thought they were kind of boring but then they i started to like them more

basically, (not for me) they're fun for who plays cvs, but it is not fun at all for who has to fight against cvs/is under attack from cv

i play cvs, yea (only because there are a few people playing it, without cvs i would only play dds and a class i would prefer, which may be cruisers or battleships, but now, i am not good in any of those two), but when you have to attack someone, for me it feels like the moment he gets to 0 hp he gets sunk/destroyed, but by me, a carrier, which HE has no absolute counterplay to me, the max he can do is shutting down 1-2-3 planes?

Fun and Engaging!

[st_dasa]

40 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

But there is AOE 3 and soon to be AOE 4, i dont think we will be getting a WOW 2 will we? So that point is pretty invalid unless you can show me evidence of WOW 2?

 

There will always be player who want more and those that want it not to change. I want variety and thats the way the game is heading so ill keep playing and player numbers are not declining so....

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but this not a well constructed argument and borders with whataboutism.

 

AOE2 is a game that stands for itself. AOE3, 4, 5, 6, 10, or whatever the number, are the games with different graphics, mechanics and gameplay. These games do not contradict or interact with each other.

You could also say ''hey, there is World of Warplanes in WG's portfolio, what are planes doing in Warships?''. Also, there are dozens of very good games that include subs, CVs and whatnot.

 

Why I took AOE2 as an example? Because it is one of the best paper-rock-scissors game out there, and because it works and does not need to improved. Is it boring? Dunno, ask thousands of players, me included, that fanatically play it for the last 20+ years.

 

How did AOE2 became even better? By making the graphics revamp and improving already existing mechanics, not by adding baroque civilizations or some weapon that cannot be countered. Small improvements lead to an optimal game.

 

And then we have WG that uses principle of ''HAMMER THAT SH*T UNTIL IT BLEEDS AND GIBS MONEH''.

[arquata2019_]

1 minuto fa, TheBradford ha scritto:

Yeah i dont think it is 

i find shooting down aircraft just find tier for tier. there has to ships with good AA and those with bad. You cant have every ship with great A unless whats the point in a CV

AA.. well, i played some ships that had good aa (in my opinion, even if i tell their names everyone would fall of the chair, but i am serious, i have screenshots, if i find them) like shiratsuyu (YES), and well, she only has 3-2km aa, but it is something to enemy cvs. if cvs would lose all planes, after 2 min they would have in average (in general, every cv has a different regen time for each type of planes) 6-8 planes? (i am bad at 2secondsmath, assuming all planes got wiped out), so she can still attack.

when you are in a bad mm where there are only aa cruisers, you can take torps of hakuryu to deal damage to MAYBE broadside cruisers/battleships, (bbs 100%) or bombs (9 planes, not 12 full squad) to citadel poor worcesters behind islands or island hugging, you can take midway's rocket (tiny tim) to broadside cruisers (while they are island hugging, you turn the planes so you have the cruiser broadsiding ONLY you) bombs to eradicate 20k-16k-13k hp of cruisers doing happy island hugging, well, cvs are everything anywhere

[ForlornSailor]

2 hours ago, arquata2019 said:

maybe you already explained this, but why did they had to make that dramatic change?

 

We never really got an answer to that. It was something among the line to make the game less campy and more action-packed. The reality was, that the devs didnt understood their own game mechanics to the fullest. Something, which I suspect happened with the CV rework aswell.

[TheBradford]

2 minutes ago, st_dasa said:

 

 

AOE2 is game that stands for itself. AOE3, 4, 5, 6, 10, or whatever number are the games that stand for themselves. You could also say ''hey, there is World of Warplanes in WG's portfolio, what are planes doing in Warships?''. Also, there are dozens of very good games that include subs, CVs and whatnot.

 

Why I took AOE2 as an example? Because it is one of the best paper-rock-scissors game out there, and because it works and does not need to improved. Is it boring? Dunno, ask thousands of players, me included, that fanatically play it for the last 20+ years.

 

How did AOE2 became even better? By making the graphics revamp and improving already existing mechanics, not by adding baroque civilizations or adding some weapon that cannot be countered. Small improvements lead to an optimal game, and then we have WG that uses principle of ''HAMMER THAT SH*T UNTIL IT BLEEDS''.

But they still made AO3, they are stand alone games true but the company still makes A03, AO4 where they add major new mechanics and as you said they dont add new big items into the game but they have the option to do that in their next game. I would argue WG don't have that option that AOE do.

 

Also you say there no counter but i know how to counter CVs, ive killed many of them.

 

So since we probably wont agree on things and your wish of CV and subs been removed from the game will not come true (i mean it wont lol), what would you want to happen to CV beside them being removed? what would make you happy?

[arquata2019_]

Proprio ora, ForlornSailor ha scritto:

 

We never really got an answer to that. It was something among the line to make the game less campy and more action-packed. The reality was, that the devs didnt understood their own game mechanics to the fullest. Something, which I suspect happened with the CV rework aswell.

how can you don't understand what you make?

devs-in-a-nutshell

[DFens_666]

46 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

So say a German CV is trying to kill a Holland?  A Holland can shred it planes and can easily make it difficult for trop drops to be successful, the best strategy for the German CV is to rely on his team to do the damage to Holland by spotting it. When i play CV and theres a minotaur protecting some ships such as a yamato and a thunder for example, im not going to fly into that lol. I ask my time to deal with the minotaur so i can get to the bbs. thats just a few examples. 

How is that a CV not needing a team?

 

German CVs trade their tool to deal with DDs for a tool, which lets them screw Cruisers even harder.

As to the Mino/Yamato/Thunderer example:

Mino longrange AA is absoulte garbage. Its 130 DPS. Against planes, which have like 2000 or more HP, thats a joke.

Thunderer beats Mino AA, atleast when he actives DefAA. Yamato has a plane, which also helps shooting down planes.

 

Also are you saying, that any other ship has a chance fighting those 3 without help from their teammates?

[GarrusBrutus]

10 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

Also you say there no counter but i know how to counter potato CVs, ive killed many of them.

ftfy

 

ps. cv survivabilty is around 70% in higher tiers. Surface ships 30-35%. Killed many of them you say?

[Dobbel0]

WG Don't care about the player base, CVs are a broken class that ruins the game!!! who ever says it exist counter play to CVs are not really smart. Even dead they keep spotting and drops. They ruin every supprice, positioning , flanking , just add to camp or lemming together... Its pure Corona for the game. And they bring it to Clanbattles too ...... Idk i am far from CV main and already broke 300k with FDR twice, seems like good balanced class to me

[arquata2019_]

5 ore fa, MacFergus ha scritto:

I think that's a one off i have never seen a CV get 7 kills

this november i got 6 kills in midway, dd haunted, i have screenshots, if someone wants 'em i'll search 'em all (pokémon reference) in my 17k screenshots

[TheBradford]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

German CVs trade their tool to deal with DDs for a tool, which lets them screw Cruisers even harder.

As to the Mino/Yamato/Thunderer example:

Mino longrange AA is absoulte garbage. Its 130 DPS. Against planes, which have like 2000 or more HP, thats a joke.

Thunderer beats Mino AA, atleast when he actives DefAA. Yamato has a plane, which also helps shooting down planes.

 

Also are you saying, that any other ship has a chance fighting those 3 without help from their teammates?

Im not saying its a bad thing about the German CV been poor at affecting DD, its a trade off that gives dds more restroom however yes cruisers are now in more danger however so far ive been blapped once by a MVR however this was because i was hugging an island and CV came in pretty perfect and chunked me for 10k but i didnt throw a hissy fit lol.

 

Other times ive turned slightly and the rockets have bounced so, you do have to be flat broadside and because german planes are weak they are not hard to shoot down plus i believe german rocket planes reserves are pretty low in comparison to other t10 cvs

 

I dont think so, Minotaur aa is very strong can easily shoot down squadrons in it. 

 

Nope, its the point im getting at, its a team based game, all ships are good at something and bad at another, we all rely on our team to exploit those strengths :)

[MacFergus]

34 minutes ago, st_dasa said:

1. Mediocre to bad CV players are, more often than not, even worse in other ship classes. CV gameplay is literally dumbed down to the point that you can play them without any real skill which is very much needed for the other three classes. Spatial awareness? Nah, I can go in an instant wherever I want. Repercussions regarding your own positioning? Who cares, reds can barely see you, least reach you. Risk of bad gameplay being punished? Naaah, planes are basically ammo that can be replenished.

This was the intention of WG no doubt the RTS CV skill level was through the roof so to speak with very few people able to master it however those that did could destroy ships with very little counter , Losing all your BB health if not outright destroyed by cross torping was not fun at the start of the game , Having your friendly CV sniped within a few minutes of the game meant the whole team suffered do you forget this?.

 

At least now ships cannot be 1 shotted by CVs and by use of the WASD ships can avoid attacks all together.

 

Do i enjoy the new CV play? , Yes I do  personally i think its fair and easier to play than the old CV play where 1 player could dominate a whole game just because he mastered the art of RTS CV not for the casual.

 

Their are problems as stated before the tier 4 and 10 CVs need looking at but lets be honest here a good RTS CV player was even more influential than the CVs now at least the enemy CV has a chance be it potato or not. 

[TheBradford]

2 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

 

ps. cv survivabilty is around 70% in higher tiers. Surface ships 30-35%. Killed many of them you say?

Well its going to be higher as they are behind their team most of the time, you dont expect a CV to charge into B do you?

 

you call him a potato CV or maybe i was the sneaky player pulling a good dd move ;) 

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

aoe2 and 1 are still regularly played

aoe3 is a mostly abandoned joke 

 

dow1 was a great game still played today

dow2 was also a good game tho its playerbase is dwindling even with the hero mode added

dow3 they went for a broader audience and the game didnt survive a year

change isnt always good 

[TheBradford]

4 minutes ago, Dobbel0 said:

WG Don't care about the player base, CVs are a broken class that ruins the game!!! who ever says it exist counter play to CVs are not really smart. Even dead they keep spotting and drops. They ruin every supprice, positioning , flanking , just add to camp or lemming together... Its pure Corona for the game. And they bring it to Clanbattles too ...... Idk i am far from CV main and already broke 300k with FDR twice, seems like good balanced class to me

"not really smart"

you - supprice lol ;)

 

But people who can counter CVs are you saying they are not smart? they sound smarter than someone who hasn't figured it out yet?

 

That's the FDR, that's a CV that is OP i think but not the class as a whole. 

 

Also i do think WG do care about the player base - there's a lot of proof for that, examples 

- Submarine test, feedback from player was BBs have no counter and no idea when you are targeted.   

WG - we have listened to your feedback on submarines and in the next phase of testing BBs and heavy cruisers can now call in a controllable ASW plane to drop on submarines also we have added a system that alerts you when you have been pinged by a submarine. 

- Dockyard events , first one was all most impossible but the Odin and the rest have been rather easy 

 

Just them two points show they have listened and do care about the players.

On CVs, its because there is stll a lot of debate between players on the impact of CVs and the statistics also don't show a massive change 

[TheBradford]

7 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

aoe2 and 1 are still regularly played

aoe3 is a mostly abandoned joke 

 

Not really here to debate AOE it was more a comparison between AOE been able to make a new game such as AO2,3,4 whereas WOW will more than likely to just be WOW, not a WOW 2,3,4 ect