General CV related discussions.

[Miragetank90]

9 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

But thats the thing you are a TOP CV player

 

... He is?

Improving yes, but not there yet. 

 

No offense intended btw @arquata2019 this is purely a matter of fact statement. 

[arquata2019_]

5 minuti fa, TheBradford ha scritto:

you are a TOP CV player,

:O

that's a compliment for me

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

The average CV players is not massively impacting the game

 

Thats what you think.

Everyone has to play differently when a CV is in the game. Bad players wont recognize this, because.. well, they play bad to begin with. Even a bad CV player will change the game for a good BB/DD/Cruiser, be it by only spotting him.

Facing a bad DD/BB/Cruiser as a good player, they are often only a nuisance.

[TheBradford]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Ive seen DDs get proxy spotted by a BB more often than i can remember. In your theory:

- CV players are average and cant take out even one BB on their own

- DD players are above average and never make a mistake. Yes, they do make mistakes all the time aswell.

You are using 2 different types of skill and compare them into 1. The reason why you do this is simple:

- A bad CV player wont die early, because he is sitting in the back with his hull

- A bad DD player will die within 5 minutes, thus its unlikely a bad DD player would be alive to face 2 BBs on his own.

- That means, a DD being alive against 2 BBs in the of the game is a good DD player. Atleast the chance for this is extremely high.

Im all in for bad CV players dying withing 5 minutes - would solve many issues.

Nope

My theory is CV are not OP in the hands of average players and don't massively impact the match as much as people think they do.

- Im not arguing from a competitive clan battles or ranked format. Im arguing CVs in a one CV per side in a 12 v 12 game in a all tier same match, CV are not OP and don't deserve the hate they get.

 

Never said a CV cant take out a BB on a one on one, i said i think 2 bbs have a better chance of taking out a CV then they do a single DD

 

 

[TheBradford]

2 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

:O

that's a compliment for me

I dont know lol, i thought you said you was lol

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, TheBradford said:

Nope

My theory is CV are not OP in the hands of average players and don't massively impact the match as much as people think they do.

- Im not arguing from a competitive clan battles or ranked format. Im arguing CVs in a one CV per side in a 12 v 12 game in a all tier same match, CV are not OP and don't deserve the hate they get.

 

Never said a CV cant take out a BB on a one on one, i said i think 2 bbs have a better chance of taking out a CV then they do a single DD

 

We should request WG to rig your matchmaking, so that you must face a CV in the red team, which has atleast a PR of 2200 and a WR of 65%+. Lets say for 2 months for each and every game you play.

Id like to speak with you then again. Ah, you prolly wont come to the forums anymore, since you deleted the game. Or comitted Sepuku.

[TheBradford]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Thats what you think.

Everyone has to play differently when a CV is in the game. Bad players wont recognize this, because.. well, they play bad to begin with. Even a bad CV player will change the game for a good BB/DD/Cruiser, be it by only spotting him.

Facing a bad DD/BB/Cruiser as a good player, they are often only a nuisance.

It is what i think and its what the average stats are showing. 

See i think thats a good thing that people play differently when a CV is in game and when submarines come out, people should play differently then.

It gives the game that variety than just the usual same play style.

[arquata2019_]

6 minuti fa, TheBradford ha scritto:

I dont know lol, i thought you said you was lol

i remember i said i am not a very good cv player, but jesus, cvs are something that i can't describe

 

9 minuti fa, Miragetank90 ha scritto:

.. He is?

Improving yes, but not there yet. 

i think the same @Miragetank90, i'm improving right now

[TheBradford]

1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

We should request WG to rig your matchmaking, so that you must face a CV in the red team, which has atleast a PR of 2200 and a WR of 65%+. Lets say for 2 months for each and every game you play.

Id like to speak with you then again. Ah, you prolly wont come to the forums anymore, since you deleted the game. Or comitted Sepuku.

Lolz

I would say 2/3 out of my games are with CVs but you are missing my point not every CV player is a 65% win rate purple damage player are they. 

Out of all my games what ever ship im in, i just haven't experienced all this negative stuff 'top players' are saying. The only thing i do expierance that i dont enjoy is the FDR.

 

My point again, does WG build the game for the average players or the 'top' players

[El2aZeR]

6 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

My theory is CV are not OP in the hands of average players and don't massively impact the match as much as people think they do.

 

No blatantly overpowered ship is overpowered in the hands of the average player.

This is why the average player is irrelevant when it comes to design and balancing - because the average player is a failure in every aspect of the game.

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, TheBradford said:

CV are not OP and don't deserve the hate they get.

 

Doesnt matter really.

If all other classes universaly hate CVs, then there is something wrong with them. Whether stats prove this claim actually matters very little at that point (and even then, they actually do support that).

 

4 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

Never said a CV cant take out a BB on a one on one, i said i think 2 bbs have a better chance of taking out a CV then they do a single DD

 

Thats totaly ignoring skill difference, also this:

- DDs counter BBs

- BBs counter Cruisers

- Cruisers counter DDs.

- CVs counter everything

Use similar skilled players, result will usually be, that CV can kill everything, while all others will win or lose depending on the opposition. Arguably, Cruisers have the hardest time fighting DDs. When they dont have a Radar, their chance of spotting the DD is as bad as BBs chance (except speedboosting Henri maybe). And even some Cruisers with very bad detection and rather low DPM (Moskva/Stalin) might not even catch the DD inside the radar. Even if, they have a hard time killing that DD in the first place.

[TheBradford]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

No blatantly overpowered ship is overpowered in the hands of the average player.

This is why the average player is irrelevant when it comes to design and balancing - because the average player is a failure in every aspect of the game.

So are you saying WG should only listen to great player feedback and ignore the feedback from the rest of us?

[GarrusBrutus]

2 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

Lolz

I would say 2/3 out of my games are with CVs but you are missing my point not every CV player is a 65% win rate purple damage player are they. 

Out of all my games what ever ship im in, i just haven't experienced all this negative stuff 'top players' are saying. The only thing i do expierance that i dont enjoy is the FDR.

 

My point again, does WG build the game for the average players or the 'top' players

So f*ck good players who would like to enjoy CBs/ranked then? Too bad for them, have fun facing the straight up OP outliers that play CVs....

 

ps. The stats of CVs are more extreme on both sides of the scale, hence not showing any "better" averages.....

[TheBradford]

1 minute ago, GarrusBrutus said:

So f*ck good players who would like to enjoy CBs/ranked then? Too bad for them, have fun facing the straight up OP outliers that play CVs....

No

But WG has to take in feedback from ALL players not just the great ones and look at average results. 

 

[TheBradford]

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

- DDs counter BBs

- BBs counter Cruisers

- Cruisers counter DDs.

- CVs counter everything

 

Im just not conceived that CVs on the whole are OP for the average 12 v 12 random battles game (providing 1 cv per side)

I know this is the forums and people here are very die hard players. 

- i know there is areas for CV to be improved on such as i dont know why CVs only have 5 second fire, it should be way longer and maybe things like dropping a fighter over a dd doesn't keep the dd spotted. And CVs like FDR shouldnt be encouraged.

 

- But i dont agree CVs should be removed from game or nerfed into oblivion.

 

[ForlornSailor]

3 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

So are you saying WG should only listen to great player feedback and ignore the feedback from the rest of us?

 

Ill tell you a Story about a game called F.E.A.R.

One day, the devs had the idea, to change the health system. 99% of what you would concider the super unicums here in wows were in panic, because we knew: this change will kill the game.

The "community" aka 75% of the players, that pretty much sucked, and accused everyone, that is beeing better than them of using cheats (we start to have this here in the forums aswell, just yesterday we had a recent topic) saw its their chance. They united in their hate against the skilled players, defended the change. They told us to "go away" and that we are "afraid of change" because we "cant adapt" and that we are only "abusing the current health system to our unfair advantage". Sounds familiar? The reality ofc was, that it gave good player even more of an advantage. Ofc we were "liars".

 

Not even 12 months later, the game was completly dead. Monolith shut down the master server because player numbers dropped by >90%. THATS why you listen to experianced players and not to the average noob.

[arquata2019_]

1 minuto fa, ForlornSailor ha scritto:

by >90%.

wat

that was a serious community then

[GarrusBrutus]

1 minute ago, TheBradford said:

No

But WG has to take in feedback from ALL players not just the great ones and look at average results. 

Looking at average results is dangerous balancing business.

F.e. Smolensk: top player does 200k avg. worst player does 10k avg.

Result: Smolensk is statswise balanced. 

 

But.....

 

 

DOES IT MAKE THE GAME MORE FUN?

[arquata2019_]

1 minuto fa, GarrusBrutus ha scritto:

Looking at average results is dangerous balancing business.

F.e. Smolensk: top player does 200k avg. worst player does 10k avg.

Result: Smolensk is statswise balanced. 

 

But.....

 

 

DOES IT MAKE THE GAME MORE FUN?

i think the would balance ships that way

[ForlornSailor]

Just now, arquata2019 said:

that was a serious community then

 

It was actually pretty small all the time, thats why the change was so devastating to begin with. When talking about the top clans, those were like 3 to 4 and each of them had between 6 to 10 players - talking Europe, NA added about the same number of elite players, so we were a small group of like 50 to 70 players. Everyone knew each other. At most, you had like 2000 players online in the hay-days, if I remember correctly.

[TheBradford]

1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Not even 12 months later, the game was completly dead. Monolith shut down the master server because player numbers dropped by >90%. THATS why you listen to experianced players and not to the average noob.

Im not saying not to listen to experienced players but you cant just ignore the average player either. 

I mean WOW player base has increased this year, so CVs are not deterring people from the game.

My biggest concern isn't with HE spam, or Radar or CVs (ovs lol) it with boredom of the same thing.

 

Same classes of ships, same maps, same battle modes, same stuff. Thats what i see will pull the game down.

[TheBradford]

3 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Looking at average results is dangerous balancing business.

F.e. Smolensk: top player does 200k avg. worst player does 10k avg.

Result: Smolensk is statswise balanced. 

 

But.....

 

 

DOES IT MAKE THE GAME MORE FUN?

I dont even see Smolensk's anymore, they were the rage for a month and then nothing.

[arquata2019_]

1 minuto fa, ForlornSailor ha scritto:

 

It was actually pretty small all the time, thats why the change was so devastating to begin with. When talking about the top clans, those were like 3 to 4 and each of them had between 6 to 10 players - talking Europe, NA added about the same number of elite players, so we were a small group of like 50 to 70 players. Everyone knew each other. At most, you had like 2000 players online in the hay-days, if I remember correctly.

0.0

maybe you already explained this, but why did they had to make that dramatic change?

[arquata2019_]

Proprio ora, TheBradford ha scritto:

I dont even see Smolensk's anymore, they were the rage for a month and then nothing.

seems like i am the only one seeing them

[MacFergus]

41 minutes ago, st_dasa said:

 

Listen, when I started playing this game, I was so frustrated with the DDs. I started playing because I wanted to sail in a Yamato, so BBs were from the start kinda my main. In first 2k battles, I got torped, burned and sank all the time from those pesky hidden lil' buggers. I honestly thought that DDs are OP - how to counter something you cannot even see?

Then I started improving, learning, I studied positions, patterns, reload times, my better overall awareness made my gameplay skyrocket into the green, cyan and then purple zone. Today, only the best of DD players can outsmart me. Sure, they can deny my push attempts, remove me from the good position etc., but there is almost 0% chance of me dying to a random DD in first 10 mins. of the game.

Come CV rework, I thought I'd adapt to their menace the same way I did to my past main counter. Two years after and only thing I learnd is that there. is. no. counterplay. You can only hope that CV is stupid enough to bully / focus someone else.

 

Every week some absolute tool with MM monitor will focus me down because he can and I can't do anything about it. Every day I watch CVs bully Shimas, Gearings, Harugumos, literally powercreeping every single DD in the game. You cannot predict from where planes will strike. You cannot angle when you are exchanging fire with two T10 BBs that will shred you to pieces if you show them broadside. Hey, wanna hold those juicy Des Moines positions and farm BBs that stray too far? Nope, cannot do. You get multi-citadelled from the flying minigamers. You wanna stealth flank with your Zao? Nope, planes come brrrrrrrrrrt. Wanna hold central position with my Yamato? Dude, u crazy, better stay together for shared AA.

CVs are broken and OP. I said this before and I'll say it again; even if you removed all the striking capabilities of planes and left them with just speed and spotting potential, they would be still broken.

 

 

 

All of this translates to a simple fact; game is becoming increasingly so less fun since the introduction of the reworked CVs. Despite WeeGee's spreadsheets, all the public pools say so.

 

Again your focusing on tier 10 this is not the case below that , I don't doubt their are some very good CVs players some in this thread but that does not mean the class as a whole is op.

 

Tier 4 CVs and tier 10 CVs seem to raise the most complaints and therefore need looking at.

 

Quite honestly i see average to mediocre CV players all the time below tier 8 maybe the problem is at the higher tier.

 

The unicorn players who comment on this thread are the exception to the rule that is not the case for the vast majority imo.