General CV related discussions.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

it's just experience and amount of battles. You can't expect yourself to reach that level of play without putting hours of work in or dedicated coaching to you personally. 

[Panocek]

4 hours ago, raz207 said:

Just had a game against a Werner VOSS cv, it ended with the CV killing 7 ships after 14min.

Put that in your fc...excel.

7 full hp kills, or 7 kill steals?

[1MajorKoenig]

2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

7 full hp kills, or 7 kill steals?

7 full HP kills at T10 are between 350k and 700k Dmg. Sounds like a totally average game for anyone 

[Panocek]

8 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

7 full HP kills at T10 are between 350k and 700k Dmg. Sounds like a totally average game for anyone 

 

Cmon, glue eaters get more by rushing their hull head first

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, Panocek said:

 

Cmon, glue eaters get more by rushing their hull head first

Remember to hide your glue stack to finish that akizuki class

[Panocek]

5 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

Remember to hide your glue stack to finish that akizuki class

Don't they dare scraping glue off the parts

[TheBradford]

On 3/9/2020 at 10:31 AM, Afghanicus said:

As long as you have such good CVs and such poor AA, the balance will be broken as hell.

 

Everyone can be blapped in a shot if they show too much broadside to a BB but you can counter that by angling and not showing your bloody broadside. There is NO counter for the CVs since the AA sucks so much and the 'defensive AA' became a bad joke that nobody uses anymore because it's useless.

 

When you're in a CL, a CV can take about half of your HP in one single drop and you simply cannot do anything about it.

 

Not to mention that it's even worse for the DDs who are being spotted and harassed by a CV who risks nothing in return and DD's AA is the worst joke made by WG anyways.

 

So I am against CVs, especially in the current form when they cowardly camp in the spawn and send squadron after squadron without risking anything. If they get in danger it's because the whole flank collapsed and the game is over anyways.

 

Based on the devblog, the situation will only get worse from here and I don't like it one bit.

I disagree for the following reasons 

- how many ships should have 'good AA'

- Tier 6/8 CV still get up tiered and tier 10 AA basically wipes through them or any 2 up tiered average AA ships can break them

- I would argue CVs have a harder time dealing with requests from team mates

- flight times.

- Average impact by CV is low across the board

 

I think when people argue against CVs it usually comes from players with little to no experience in CVs which is a problem. I used to be one of them basically say CVs are OP and they are ruin the game until.........i played them.

 

I soon realised - they are not that fun to play, hard to get into, your Karama score takes a noise dive, your team hates you, your team over expects from you and overall the damage from tier 4-8 at least is minimal. I would recommend looking at the average stats of CV players, there below average.

 

For your comment "there are no counters to CVs" i completely disagree. 

- let me ask you this, its the end of a match and there are 2 bbs left (say a monarch and a Kanas) and 1 dd left (say Benson), who would win? what would win? If the benson just stealth torps and doesn't get spotted, what can the BBs do except wait to get torped to death?

- flip that around and say its those 2 bbs vers a Kaga, i would bet those BBs would stand a much better chance, as they could combine AA, avoid damage and eventually catch the CV and then the CV is completely screwed.

- there's lots of counters to CV and i learned CVs weaknesses by playing them, ive seen dds play differently in CV games and they have still had big impacts but survived and ive seen dds charge into the centre like there's no CV in play and eventually they die. I've also witnessed a lot of Oland taking on kagas and Lexington's and surviving and driving out multiple attacks of rocket plane attacks.

 

i could go on. My point is CV are NOT OP, they don't impact the game as much as people think they do, most hate comes from players with no or little experience and the average new player to the game doesn't see CVs are a problem. Most of the critism comes form long time players who don't like change. I bet when submarines are introduced it will be the same long time players to complain.

 

BTW - im not saying CVs are perfect for example im completely against double CV games and i think CVs like the FDR are too strong, just saying CV are the demon class people make them out to be.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

lol. 

 

Sorry to make you feel like a bad player but if you believe CVs aren't OP because you just can't do what certain others can and it can't possibly be on you? 

 

Sorry.. it's you. 

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

I think when people argue against CVs it usually comes from players with little to no experience in CVs which is a problem.

 

Top CV players universally say that the class is broken.

You are talking to some of them here btw.

 

4 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

- let me ask you this, its the end of a match and there are 2 bbs left (say a monarch and a Kanas) and 1 dd left (say Benson), who would win?

 

The BBs probably unless there is a significant point lead for the DD already.

 

5 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

- flip that around and say its those 2 bbs vers a Kaga, i would bet those BBs would stand a much better chance, as they could combine AA, avoid damage and eventually catch the CV and then the CV is completely screwed.

 

Wrong, they would die to the Kaga assuming the Kaga isn't incompetent. Unless ofc there is not enough time for the Kaga to kill both and the Kaga doesn't possess the point lead when the match ends.

 

6 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

- there's lots of counters to CV and i learned CVs weaknesses by playing them

 

Then you are not very good at playing CVs quite frankly.

[DFens_666]

16 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

- flip that around and say its those 2 bbs vers a Kaga, i would bet those BBs would stand a much better chance, as they could combine AA, avoid damage and eventually catch the CV and then the CV is completely screwed.

 

How exactly should 2 BBs, where one does 23kts and the other 28kts catch a CV hull, which does 28kts aswell? Not to mention, BBs will lose speed everytime they try to dodge when the CV attacks them, to migitate damage. Something the CV doesnt need to do. And something else, the closer you are to a CV, the more deadly the CV becomes, planes can fly over islands, BBs can not.

 

16 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

- Average impact by CV is low across the board 

 

Yup, thats why the best CV players have 80% Solo WR

16 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

they don't impact the game as much as people think they do

 

Bad CV players have a disproportionate effect on better non-CV players. Something, which is only true for CVs, but not for other classes.

[TheBradford]

9 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

lol. 

 

Sorry to make you feel like a bad player but if you believe CVs aren't OP because you just can't do what certain others can and it can't possibly be on you? 

 

Sorry.. it's you. 

 

My win rate in CVs is average and in some CVs above average and some below, my point is on Average across the whole game they are under performing

[st_dasa]

29 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

i could go on. My point is CV are NOT OP, they don't impact the game as much as people think they do, most hate comes from players with no or little experience and the average new player to the game doesn't see CVs are a problem. Most of the critism comes form long time players who don't like change. I bet when submarines are introduced it will be the same long time players to complain.

 

Listen, when I started playing this game, I was so frustrated with the DDs. I started playing because I wanted to sail in a Yamato, so BBs were from the start kinda my main. In first 2k battles, I got torped, burned and sank all the time from those pesky hidden lil' buggers. I honestly thought that DDs are OP - how to counter something you cannot even see?

Then I started improving, learning, I studied positions, patterns, reload times, my better overall awareness made my gameplay skyrocket into the green, cyan and then purple zone. Today, only the best of DD players can outsmart me. Sure, they can deny my push attempts, remove me from the good position etc., but there is almost 0% chance of me dying to a random DD in first 10 mins. of the game.

Come CV rework, I thought I'd adapt to their menace the same way I did to my past main counter. Two years after and only thing I learnd is that there. is. no. counterplay. You can only hope that CV is stupid enough to bully / focus someone else.

 

Every week some absolute tool with MM monitor will focus me down because he can and I can't do anything about it. Every day I watch CVs bully Shimas, Gearings, Harugumos, literally powercreeping every single DD in the game. You cannot predict from where planes will strike. You cannot angle when you are exchanging fire with two T10 BBs that will shred you to pieces if you show them broadside. Hey, wanna hold those juicy Des Moines positions and farm BBs that stray too far? Nope, cannot do. You get multi-citadelled from the flying minigamers. You wanna stealth flank with your Zao? Nope, planes come brrrrrrrrrrt. Wanna hold central position with my Yamato? Dude, u crazy, better stay together for shared AA.

CVs are broken and OP. I said this before and I'll say it again; even if you removed all the striking capabilities of planes and left them with just speed and spotting potential, they would be still broken.

 

 

 

All of this translates to a simple fact; game is becoming increasingly so less fun since the introduction of the reworked CVs. Despite WeeGee's spreadsheets, all the public pools say so.

[TheBradford]

10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Top CV players universally say that the class is broken.

You are talking to some of them here btw.

 

 

The BBs probably unless there is a significant point lead for the DD already.

 

 

Wrong, they would die to the Kaga assuming the Kaga isn't incompetent. Unless ofc there is not enough time for the Kaga to kill both and the Kaga doesn't possess the point lead when the match ends.

 

 

Then you are not very good at playing CVs quite frankly.

Just because they are a TOP player in the game doesn't make them a guru or a god to take there every word as truth and correct. There are plenty of good players but it doesn't mean they know what's 100% the right answer for something. I know some great players that say CV and submarines should not be in the game and that's like....well don't you want the game to develop and change? You know doing the same isnt going to keep the game up to date and bringing players back right. The BB,DD and cruiser thing is starting to get a bit bland.

 

A great player will be able to make any ship work, as there great players, what i argue is the average player.

I admit I'm not an amazing player and I'm not claiming to be but that doesn't make my points any less valid. My CV gameplay is on the whole pretty average but this game is more or less made up of average/below average players.

 

Ive seen more games where the CV is unable to take out one or 2 BBs left. Like where is the counter for those bbs against the dd? What can those bbs do to tackle a dd that has an idea how to play? There more hope in those bbs killing a CV than a single dd. Ive been in that situation so many times when there 1/2/3 bbs and im the only dd left and i have been able to kill them because they couldnt find me whereas in a CV they have a much better chance.

 

Remember statistically CV players are not over performing so you will have a lot more 'incompetent players' than not.

 

 

[arquata2019_]

22 minuti fa, El2aZeR ha scritto:

Top CV players universally say that the class is broken.

You are talking to some of them here btw.

i'm not a top cv player, but i agree that they're BROKEN AF

[DFens_666]

16 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

 

My win rate in CVs is average and in some CVs above average and some below, my point is on Average across the whole game they are under performing

 

So you are the benchmark? Man, you should start underperforming in ships which you like, then WG will buff them

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

your stats are average or are your stats average for a CV?

you know there is a 10% difference between those 2

[Kerrow]

oh look, 228 pages for WG to ignore after locking everything related to CVs and going "use the CV topic"

[ForlornSailor]

7 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

this game is more or less made up of average/below average players.

 

this.... does not make sense at all. The performance of all players of one specific game defines what is average. Thats is literally the meaning of "average". You cant say "everyone is below average". It doesnt make sense. It actually hurts my brain. stop it.

[TheBradford]

3 minutes ago, st_dasa said:

 

Listen, when I started playing this game, I was so frustrated with the DDs. I started playing because I wanted to sail in a Yamato, so BBs were from the start kinda my main. In first 2k battles, I got torped, burned and sank all the time from those pesky hidden lil' buggers. I honestly thought that DDs are OP - how to counter something you cannot even see?

Then I started improving, learning, I studied positions, patterns, reload times, my better overall awareness made my gameplay skyrocket into the green, cyan and then purple zone. Today, only the best of DD players can outsmart me. Sure, they can deny my push attempts, remove me from the good position etc., but there is almost 0% chance of me dying to a random DD in first 10 mins. of the game.

Come CV rework, I thought I'd adapt to their menace the same way I did to my past main counter. Two years after and only thing I learnd is that there. is. no. counterplay. You can only hope that CV is stupid enough to bully / focus someone else.

 

Every week some absolute tool with MM monitor will focus me down because he can and I can't do nothing about it. Every day I watch CVs bully Shimas, Gearings, Harugumos, literally powercreeping every single DD in the game. You cannot predict from where planes will strike. You cannot angle when you are exchanging fire with two T10 BBs that will shred you to pieces if you show them broadside. Hey, wanna hold those juicy Des Moines positions and farm BBs that stray too far? Nope, cannot do. You get multi-citadelled from the flying minigamers. You wanna stealth flank with your Zao? Nope, planes come brrrrrrrrrrt. Wanna hold central position with my Yamato? Dude, u crazy, better stay together for shared AA.

CVs are broken and OP. I said this before and I'll say it again; even if you removed all the striking capabilities of planes and left them with just speed and spotting potential, they would be still broken.

 

 

 

All of this translates to a simple fact; game is becoming increasingly so less fun since the introduction of the reworked CVs. All the pools say so.

I've just never experienced this.

 

Im relatively a new player and so is all my friends and clan mates that play this game and we honestly (most of the time) dont see CVs as a problem, the only people we experience with hate towards CVs it long time players who moan and groan about it but dont take into account that there is more average players that great players in the game.

 

I always see long time players moaning about CV or the introduction of submarines and that when they are added they will leave the game ect ect. I see people hating on CV players at the start of the match saying "report CV" and the game has been 30 seconds in. End of the game CVs are 9/10 half or below in the team leaderboard.

 

CVs are constantly been told their OP but on average they are below the average damage of same tier BBs, yes they can spot and work well that way. But in vast majority of my games i dont see CVs doing that, im not seeing CVs actively spotting dds, im not seeing them do huge amounts of damage, im hardly ever killed by them, most of the time there just annoying.

 

As ive said the best players say this and that but it doesnt mean 100% they have the right answer. Is banning CVs and submarines into the game the right answer? 

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

Ive seen more games where the CV is unable to take out one or 2 BBs left. Like where is the counter for those bbs against the dd? What can those bbs do to tackle a dd that has an idea how to play? There more hope in those bbs killing a CV than a single dd. Ive been in that situation so many times when there 1/2/3 bbs and im the only dd left and i have been able to kill them because they couldnt find me whereas in a CV they have a much better chance. 

 

Ive seen DDs get proxy spotted by a BB more often than i can remember. In your theory:

- CV players are average and cant take out even one BB on their own

- DD players are above average and never make a mistake. Yes, they do make mistakes all the time aswell.

You are using 2 different types of skill and compare them into 1. The reason why you do this is simple:

- A bad CV player wont die early, because he is sitting in the back with his hull

- A bad DD player will die within 5 minutes, thus its unlikely a bad DD player would be alive to face 2 BBs on his own.

- That means, a DD being alive against 2 BBs in the of the game is a good DD player. Atleast the chance for this is extremely high.

Im all in for bad CV players dying withing 5 minutes - would solve many issues.

[TheBradford]

7 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

i'm not a top cv player, but i agree that they're BROKEN AF

But thats the thing you are a TOP CV player, the vast majority of us, are not. Any great player can make any ship work.

 

The average CV players is not massively impacting the game

[ForlornSailor]

2 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

End of the game CVs are 9/10 half or below in the team leaderboard.

 

Sigh. you are

A) beeing anecdotal

B) providing no proof for this claim, thus you are borderline to be called a liar, atleast its a fairy tale

C) obviously biased

D) dont know about or conveniently forget about XP nerf for CVs

[Prophecy82]

Can i get a Medal for surviving this sh*t?

 

 

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, TheBradford said:

The average CV players is not massively impacting the game

 

Doesnt matter either. What matters is the potential of a ship. CV super unicom goes 80% WR SOLO. A division of 3 super unicums will have to try hard AND pick the right ships (leaving CV out of the mix) to reach 80% WR over a meaningful period of time. No other ship/class has this solo potential.

[El2aZeR]

15 minutes ago, TheBradford said:

what i argue is the average player.

 

Which to objective game design and balance is of course completely irrelevant.