General CV related discussions.

[GarrusBrutus]

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Those are rookie stats compared to what you can do today.

From my NA account:

Those 15 enemy teams must have been like:

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Nov_A said:

Well, they are also an unattractive target because CVs generally have the strongest AA and guaranteed fighter squadrons, which gives you sure losses or use of consumables.

Their superstructure is small, their torpedo reduction high, unlimited - automatic DCP and acually big HP pools make bad targets for DoT, general armor layouts are just enough to prevent HE pens, but not enough to create reliable citadels from bombs.

The thing is though, I can trigger those fighter squads, and still drop.

And yes they have great AA< but well, AA is kinda... ehh... and it is not Halland-level. 
I can throw torps at distance and not be bothered... since they do not accelerate (and are usually parked anyway).

 

1 hour ago, Nov_A said:

You have the few exceptions like the weak armored IJN or RN steel decks, but in the end CVs are just a pretty unattractive target in general, in addition to the long travel time/low DPS when attacking them.

True. But if they are close enough, I'll get them because they can be the main factor for the win/loss.

I can definitely farm harder than a DEAD CV. 

[st_dasa]

4 hours ago, Europizza said:

My guess is every class dislikes being targeted by carriers, only carriers dont care because WG reasons.

 

 

Spreadsheets say everything is just FINE, my comrade

 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

What are the odds that WarGaming will finish the carrier rework in 2021?

 

 

[MacFergus]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

iving CVs special MM wont work because of divisions. If a T8 CV can only see T7 or T9, it means a ship in the division would get the same bonus, thus T8 ship could avoid T10 MM by divisioning with a CV. They couldnt be "thrown under the bus", only if there is a 2nd division doing the same.

So wont work, either everyone gets +/-1 MM or noone.

As to which tier CVs are balanced/OP:

- T4 most OP, thanks to Hosho and ships dont have AA really

- T6 most "balanced", because they have +1/-2 MM and overall slightly less devastating.

- T8 kinda OP, arguably most OP CV is on T8: Enterprise. Arguably, because FDR and MvR might actually be more broken, but maybe not so OP overall, because Enterprise is strong agains any type of ship.

- T10 pretty much also OP.

UK CVs are more "balanced" compared to others.

This is quite an accurate account of CVs , Tier 4 should not exist but I suspect its their to give players an early start in CVs.

 

I would also Argue that tier 8 sees tier 10 but would be more effective in a top tier game like all ships but i agree on the rest.

 

 

[DFens_666]

11 minutes ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

What are the odds that WarGaming will finish the carrier rework in 2021?

 

 

 

Does buffing CVs with captain skill rework count?

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

is the captain rework in already or when is this thing happening

havnt bothered logging in yet 

since their doing a autoreassign instead of an auto unassign to the points ill be forced to log in during that update :( so when is it happening 

[arquata2019_]

11 minuti fa, Ashardalon_Dragnipur ha scritto:

is the captain rework in already or when is this thing happening

havnt bothered logging in yet 

since their doing a autoreassign instead of an auto unassign to the points ill be forced to log in during that update :( so when is it happening 

i bet 18 days from now

[DFens_666]

13 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

is the captain rework in already or when is this thing happening

havnt bothered logging in yet 

since their doing a autoreassign instead of an auto unassign to the points ill be forced to log in during that update :( so when is it happening 

 

2 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

i bet 18 days from now

 

Still 1 patch in between, so almost 2 months (3 weeks till next patch, and then 4 but i assume actually 5 weeks to the patch after.

0.9.11 is now

0.9.12 next

0.10.0 is captain skill rework

[arquata2019_]

Proprio ora, DFens_666 ha scritto:

 

 

Still 1 patch in between, so almost 2 months (3 weeks till next patch, and then 4 but i assume actually 5 weeks to the patch after.

0.9.11 is now

0.9.12 next

0.10.0 is captain skill rework

whaaaaa

oh ok i had doubts however, jesus... .10.0... will the game leave beta? what will happen on 0.10.0?

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

they will just continue to 0.99.0

nothing is going to change

beta brings a nice concept of safety they wont want to abandon 

 

thanks for the info, must have mixed up 9.10 with 10.0 so also thought it was closer

guess ill get something for a months absence while i undo all my commander skills 

[Santos47]

lastly I get to the Hakuryu, and its seams like to be butchered out of the water, whats the gimmic of this ship now? Just two torps, no 8 km torps and on top of that have worst rocket aiming triangle then jap tier 8 CV... I mean, do I not catching something?

[rnat]

2 hours ago, Santos47 said:

lastly I get to the Hakuryu, and its seams like to be butchered out of the water, whats the gimmic of this ship now? Just two torps, no 8 km torps and on top of that have worst rocket aiming triangle then jap tier 8 CV... I mean, do I not catching something?

High damage torps on pretty stealthy TBs, decent rockets and more accurate AP DBs on fast planes with more HP than the Jermans.

[Santos47]

31 minutes ago, rnat said:

High damage torps on pretty stealthy TBs, decent rockets and more accurate AP DBs on fast planes with more HP than the Jermans.

FDR got higher torp demage, rockets are actually worst then on Shokaku, germ bombs seams like have higher dmg output as well. All what is left is stealth, but without 8km torps as used to be, whats the point? First drop or spotting whole game?

[rnat]

6 hours ago, Santos47 said:

rockets are actually worst then on Shokaku

Just no. (Shokaku left, Hakuryu right)

Spoiler

 

6 hours ago, Santos47 said:

FDR got higher torp demage, [...] germ bombs seams like have higher dmg output as well. All what is left is stealth, but without 8km torps as used to be, whats the point? First drop or spotting whole game? 

FDR is a high alpha CV with lousy cooldown between attacks and abysmally slow planes (that are very tanky though).
Yes KM AP-bombs have more pen and more damage but are much less accurate and thus RNG-dependent.

If you want to cherry-pick the strengths of each premium or line and compare it to the Haku as a whole ofc she's not gonna look good, but that's not how it works.
E.g. if you take a KM CV you have to take it's shitty torpedo-alpha, you can't just put IJN or Midway torp-planes on it.

[Bear__Necessities]

Who wants to see a Halland get found and killed in 3 mins. And it ONLY took 3 mins coz lag issues made my rocket sight appear further back than it actually was, scuffing at least 2 drops. 

 

 

(it also has some snazzy tunes going on)

[rnat]

27 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Who wants to see a Halland get found and killed in 3 mins. And it ONLY took 3 mins coz lag issues made my rocket sight appear further back than it actually was, scuffing at least 2 drops. 

Wrong timestamp ? This starts after the Hallands demise.

To put it mildly this wasn't the best Halland player in existence, but then again at this distance from a top tier CV no ship lives particularly long cuz balans.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Who wants to see a Halland get found and killed in 3 mins. And it ONLY took 3 mins coz lag issues made my rocket sight appear further back than it actually was, scuffing at least 2 drops. 

There's a few things to be said about that though...

- You started looking for him at ~5:20, he was dead at 9:20 --> so that is 4 minutes;

- You had help from teammates, 2K at the start, your rocket-attack did less... and 6/9 planes shot down;

- after that you hit him with bombs, but your teammates still helped... and 6/9 planes shot down;

- he is then at 50% but your teammates bring him down to 20% while you pick up the rocketplanes;

- he shoots down 5/9 of your rocket-planes when he is at 2.5K, and you do not manage to kill him;

- Fletcher has come to your aid, and even so he has re-gained HP to 3500;

- then you sink him, finally.

 

Of course a Halland that, 5 minutes into the game, is at that position... well... eh... no.

However it took you 4 minutes (20% of a full game) to kill him with help from your buddies. 

A lesser player (me...) would have needed a lot more. And usually.. help from teammates.. .well... 

 

Your rocket sights may have been a problem... but you SEE that... I wouldn't. 
I'd just curse at RNGesus and at Hallands in general. 

 

And yes I'd probably have killed off that Halland... but I doubt it would end like that every time and with every player.

That said - I do think DDs (and AA-cruisers even more) need some sort of Halland AA, all of them. 

I also think CV spotting needs to be nerfed to ~8km. Would fix a lot.

 

1 hour ago, Bear__Necessities said:

(it also has some snazzy tunes going on)

Agreed to that. 

[1MajorKoenig]

3 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

However it took you 4 minutes (20% of a full game) to kill him with help from your buddies. 

Few games last 20min. Most are done in 10-15min.

 

Therefore it’s more like 30-50% of a typical match 

[BLUB__BLUB]

10 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Few games last 20min. Most are done in 10-15min.

 

Therefore it’s more like 30-50% of a typical match 

True. I had a bunch of 6 minute games. Well that's weekend for ya. 

I think that it is still a long time to kill off a... well... "quite misplayed" DD. 

And this wasn't a potater CV-pilot... and he was close... in Midway. What if he had Manfred?

 

When in Kaga, I can't even keep a Halland spotted. There is no use hunting them, as I'll just lose all planes.
Might get in a few rockets... except if my teammates spot him, as I can then attack him directly. 

But IMO that is how it should be, T8 IJN CV with flimsy planes vs T10 AA-spec DD. 

 

They are certainly not a one-shot-kill. Now nerf that "free spotting for all" and we are getting somewhere.

 

[ForlornSailor]

50 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

There's a few things to be said about that though...

- You started looking for him at ~5:20, he was dead at 9:20 --> so that is 4 minutes;

- You had help from teammates, 2K at the start, your rocket-attack did less... and 6/9 planes shot down;

- after that you hit him with bombs, but your teammates still helped... and 6/9 planes shot down;

- he is then at 50% but your teammates bring him down to 20% while you pick up the rocketplanes;

- he shoots down 5/9 of your rocket-planes when he is at 2.5K, and you do not manage to kill him;

- Fletcher has come to your aid, and even so he has re-gained HP to 3500;

- then you sink him, finally.

 

Your summary isnt wrong but id like to add, that without the CV, that Halland wouldnt have lost a single healthpoint.

And thats kinda the point what many try to bring across: Spotting of the CV. The moment, Bear knew where the DD was, he was already dead. It was just a matter of time. Yes, the positioning plays a role too, but DDs have to be in an offensive position (that position is still dumb, he is obviously looking for the CV) to have an impact. And the CV hard counters this positioning. We are all just lucky, that 80+% of the CV players really have no clue what they are doing. They just cant identify the priority targets nor know how to find a DD. If that would be different - this game would be sunk & dead by now, im sure of it. Just imagine 20% of the population beeing clones of El2aZer, slashing DDs in the first 4 mins left and right. The class would literally be unplayable.

[UnderDuress]

2 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Who wants to see a Halland get found and killed in 3 mins. And it ONLY took 3 mins coz lag issues made my rocket sight appear further back than it actually was, scuffing at least 2 drops. 

Ah, but you see the fact that it took you any time at all is already a victory for the DD. The fact that he could do nothing about it at all and was useless for the duration is fine since you are the player and he was just an NPC so obviously his agency should be limited...oh wait this is PvP?

[BLUB__BLUB]

53 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Your summary isnt wrong but id like to add, that without the CV, that Halland wouldnt have lost a single healthpoint.

And thats kinda the point what many try to bring across: Spotting of the CV. The moment, Bear knew where the DD was, he was already dead. It was just a matter of time. Yes, the positioning plays a role too, but DDs have to be in an offensive position (that position is still dumb, he is obviously looking for the CV) to have an impact. And the CV hard counters this positioning.

This is just the thing though. That Halland wanted to get a "pelt" and he was alone. But so was Bear.

Now that Fletcher smoked him up, else there was a very good chance Bear would be the one dead and not the DD.

 

In "average" situations, where you have to find that DD, and then go for him:

- you need to fins him first, and you cannot use the "detected"icon - his friends will be closer than 9km (you will detect his friends, so can't find him that way);

- now this is a Halland, so he has no smoke... what if he has... or some buddy smokes him up (yes fat chance I know);

- And... there was also "just the Halland AA" to deal with. Mind that 80% of other CV-pilots would have lost the whole squad. 

- ALSO he was lucky to be in Midway so he could bomb him. Average CV-player cannot bomb DDs, and IJN/German... 

 

53 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

We are all just lucky, that 80+% of the CV players really have no clue what they are doing. They just cant identify the priority targets nor know how to find a DD. If that would be different - this game would be sunk & dead by now, im sure of it. Just imagine 20% of the population beeing clones of El2aZer, slashing DDs in the first 4 mins left and right. The class would literally be unplayable.

I do not agree, really. I'm "just a savvy one" but I outplay most CV-players (based on position/XP on the after-battle-list).

I can kill a Halland, but even if it would be the same situation, THIS is likely to occur:

- Halland spots me, red Yamato goes BLAPPPP;

- RNGesus hates me (or WG has lag, or whatever), I lose so many planes can't do much;

- autopilot is drunk, instead of moving away it goes borked and Halland gets me.

Only way I can kill him is if he is spotted by my teammates.

 

Current case does show that a nerf/limit to "spotting for whole team" would solve a lot of stuff.

Also you can't go slash DDs left/right. You can only slash one at a time. If you find him... 

 

[DFens_666]

16 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Now that Fletcher smoked him up, else there was a very good chance Bear would be the one dead and not the DD.

 

No way. Bear was already turned away, even if he would be unlucky he would only take 2 torps from that angle, which mostly deal insignificant damage thanks to being EU torps. And even if he would have been alone, he would have killed the DD within him launching the next set of torps (if he ever torped him, i didnt check if there were ever any torps coming towards bear)

[DDG_121]

5 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Who wants to see a Halland get found and killed in 3 mins. And it ONLY took 3 mins coz lag issues made my rocket sight appear further back than it actually was, scuffing at least 2 drops. 

 

 

(it also has some snazzy tunes going on)

Good luck doing this against my Halland. He didn't even turned off his AA to hide more. 

 

It was incapability on his side. Not that carriers are OP.