General CV related discussions.

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

your team will make them into piñatas.

 

Spotted by CV - then detonated to my shells

[MacFergus]

8 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The problem here is the spotting. If they swerve from your rockets, your team will make them into piñatas.

The same thing for other ships. It is not the CV-attack that is the largest problem.

You get no points for spotting. I think that it should be largely removed.

 

2x CVs in a game is overkill and needs to be stopped 1x CV cannot be everywhere.

 

I don't see any difference between what CVs do and what DDs do to make ships more vulnerable when avoiding damage.

 

The whole reason why CVs are unpopular is because DD players can no longer have free reign to do what they want in a game and that's a good thing  I was rather sick of seeing the 3 sisters getting krakens in every tier 5 game.

 

The DDs i really feel sorry for are the gunboats.  

[MacFergus]

37 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Spotted by CV - then detonated to my shells

 

And when a DD blaps a full health CA or BB with a good set of fishes , That's ok then yeah i get it much skill needed.

[BLUB__BLUB]

37 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Spotted by CV - then detonated to my shells

Would it have mattered if the CV-spotting was limited to ~8km? 

Anyway kudos for shooting, most of times I lose lots of planes and my $#^team doesn't even shoot.

CV go kill that DD! Yeah right, somebody hasn't been paying attention, much. 

 

1 minute ago, MacFergus said:

 

And when a DD blaps a CA or BB with a good set of fishes , That's ok then yeah i get it much skill needed.

More like "much dumbass needed". Yesterday I got blapped in my Edinburgh. I sneeked up to one of those pan-Asian DDs,

then I used hydro and started the dakka. He sent torps (I knew that he would). Didn;t worry about it since they were DW torps.

Got reminded there is deep water torps and DEEP deep water torps.... 

 

Same in a BB. You sail at same speed, straight line and are detected... 

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

15 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

2x CVs in a game is overkill and needs to be stopped 1x CV cannot be everywhere.

 

I don't see any difference between what CVs do and what DDs do to make ships more vulnerable when avoiding damage.

 

The whole reason why CVs are unpopular is because DD players can no longer have free reign to do what they want in a game and that's a good thing  I was rather sick of seeing the 3 sisters getting krakens in every tier 5 game.

 

The DDs i really feel sorry for are the gunboats.  

My guess is every class dislikes being targeted by carriers, only carriers dont care because WG reasons.

 

Stop deluding yourself into blaming DD's for it's unpopularity. The class design by itself makes it easy to dislike, even for someone as me who wants to play carriers but doesn't because they are so godaweful boring to play. I don't have alot of problems playing around carriers (note the choice of words), but even I dislike carriers as they currently are because of the sheer simplistic nature and the absurd disruption that comes with that.

 

12 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

And when a DD blaps a full health CA or BB with a good set of fishes , That's ok then yeah i get it much skill needed.

Yes, it takes preperation and skill to set up a good torpedo attack unless the target is very bad. You know, a 160 knts speed difference in positioning and dropping torpedoes at 3 km distance with replacable stuff  as opposed to 8 km or longer range and 38 knts, and putting your arse on the line due to radar, carrier spotting and other DD's? 

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

And when a DD blaps a full health CA or BB with a good set of fishes , That's ok then yeah i get it much skill needed.

 

Actually yes? Since DDs have lowest average damage, they hardly ever kill anything from full health - atleast on average. Sure it does happen occasionally, but then you get 3-4 games where you will only get 1 torp hit per target.

My last Gearing game, not much devstrike potential there.

2 on Thunderer, 1 each on Iowa, Richelieu and Yamato. Going closer was prevented by both Halland and Lightning playing together + the CV also flying attacks on my side. He didnt go for me directly tho, lucky me.

 

I agree on midtiers its a bit easier to devstrike ships, because you have to get closer (and you can because no or less radar, and smaller maps), so its easier to hit all torps on a 20kt BB. While on hightiers with longer range torps, the spread becomes so wide you wont even hit all torps any longer, and you would need to hit them so you can devstrike that BB. For a midtier BB you probably need like 3-4 torps, Yamato can survive 8.

[Prophecy82]

22 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

I don't see any difference between what CVs do and what DDs do to make ships more vulnerable when avoiding damage.

 

DDs fight each other, CVs dont. 

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

DD average damage is kindof a slanted stat tho since half the DDs in a match die before killing the enemy DD dragging the average numbers down

but honestly, i prefer fighting 3 DDs over 1 CV

hell i have some good results winning vs 3 DDs in a BB and those are stressful but fun hunts 

[MacFergus]

1 hour ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

DDs fight each other, CVs dont. 

 

Its a good point you make and very valid.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

DDs fight each other, CVs dont. 

Could do with MvR/FDR, done it in other CVs as well. 

It is not because they cannot fight each other. 

It is because usually one CV is in A1 and the other is in Z24....

As such they are an unatrtractive target, you'd have to fly over half the team first. 

 

1 minute ago, MacFergus said:

Its a good point you make and very valid.

True. But if the red CV is nearest, he'll get attacked too. 

It is a fat cruiser, often oblivious to what happens around him... 

[NicoNau2]

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[ForlornSailor]

7 minutes ago, NicoNau2 said:

3. Carrier survivability.

This might actually be the most to be discussed point, just because I think it is well as it is, and it's bad as it is, myself. As a carrier vessel you naturally lack the armament of main Turrets, logically, as you are not expected to show up in the first line. Or second line. But sometime's there's a breach in the friendly lines, no matter if you payed attention or not, CVs dont get out alive very often, and then team complains on how you managed to die so quick. If you're under attack by planes, you can't actually shoot back and hurt the CV, that is mean, but also it's purpose. And that's why you can onehit a CV on broadside. But except for certain situations including DDs, CVs are incapable of delivering "large" impact onehits.

Conclusion (3): In my opinion a slight increase of CV secondary range and/or armor plating should do the trick, but i wouldn't complain if not done so.

 

Yea, sure, because almost 80% survivability rate of CVs is not enough - need to get closer to the 100%!

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

CVs are already too fast and too armored

they also lack detonations and fire 

[El2aZeR]

17 minutes ago, NicoNau2 said:

I know how carriers work.

 

Clearly you do not.

[DFens_666]

18 minutes ago, NicoNau2 said:

Conclusion (1): This tier-to-tier difference may be the answer on how people think cvs are op, but they're really just in Top-tier matches in the lower half of the tier list (in my opinion). I suggest reintroducing Tier V, VII and IX Carriers and limiting the tier range for CVs to +/-1 to streamline the CV-experience and get rid of some of the CV-hate. Squadron attack power to AA efficiency should also be rebalanced for all tiers to be the same ratio like something between Tier VI and VIII.

 

Giving CVs special MM wont work because of divisions. If a T8 CV can only see T7 or T9, it means a ship in the division would get the same bonus, thus T8 ship could avoid T10 MM by divisioning with a CV. They couldnt be "thrown under the bus", only if there is a 2nd division doing the same.

So wont work, either everyone gets +/-1 MM or noone.

As to which tier CVs are balanced/OP:

- T4 most OP, thanks to Hosho and ships dont have AA really

- T6 most "balanced", because they have +1/-2 MM and overall slightly less devastating.

- T8 kinda OP, arguably most OP CV is on T8: Enterprise. Arguably, because FDR and MvR might actually be more broken, but maybe not so OP overall, because Enterprise is strong agains any type of ship.

- T10 pretty much also OP.

UK CVs are more "balanced" compared to others.

 

18 minutes ago, NicoNau2 said:

Conclusion (3): In my opinion a slight increase of CV secondary range and/or armor plating should do the trick, but i wouldn't complain if not done so. 

TX CVs are the tankiest ships in game. Getting closer towards a CV also means, he will strike you more often. T4-8 CVs are easier to damage, as they dont have as much armor.

CVs have too much survivability as it is, all others are somewhere between 25-50%, CVs are >75%.

 

18 minutes ago, NicoNau2 said:

I may not be a good player overall, but there's one thing my PR tells me: I know how carriers work. And it seems to me a lot of players don't.

Or CVs are pretty much just easy mode compared to other classes...?

You outdamage a T8 BB with your T4 CV

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

- T4 most OP, thanks to Hosho and ships dont have AA really

Actually it was WeeGee who invented they should get TWO torps instead of one. 

It was bad enough before that... oh and then you could get THREE CVs PER SIDE in a match. 

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Actually it was WeeGee who invented they should get TWO torps instead of one. 

It was bad enough before that... oh and then you could get THREE CVs PER SIDE in a match. 

Well nothing compared to good‘ol RTS-Hosho. I think the post rework Hosho with single torp drop was ok. Not ideal they buffed the T4 ones one could say. Better start CVs at T5 anyway 

[BLUB__BLUB]

10 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Well nothing compared to good‘ol RTS-Hosho. I think the post rework Hosho with single torp drop was ok. Not ideal they buffed the T4 ones one could say. Better start CVs at T5 anyway 

They'd have to put some AA on T4 ships and then it would be OK. I mean, actual meaningful AA. 

Or get them a GTA sniper rifle. In fact I'd prefer if they did that, then CVs "could get used to it as well". 

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

DD average damage is kindof a slanted stat tho since half the DDs in a match die before killing the enemy DD dragging the average numbers down

It's funny you mention that because most crap carrier players last way too long in matches due to WGreasons. ^^ But because theya re so god awefull they still manage to drag carrier damage numbers down 

[Nov_A]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Could do with MvR/FDR, done it in other CVs as well. 

It is not because they cannot fight each other. 

It is because usually one CV is in A1 and the other is in Z24....

As such they are an unatrtractive target, you'd have to fly over half the team first.

Well, they are also an unattractive target because CVs generally have the strongest AA and guaranteed fighter squadrons, which gives you sure losses or use of consumables.

Their superstructure is small, their torpedo reduction high, unlimited - automatic DCP and acually big HP pools make bad targets for DoT, general armor layouts are just enough to prevent HE pens, but not enough to create reliable citadels from bombs.

 

You have the few exceptions like the weak armored IJN or RN steel decks, but in the end CVs are just a pretty unattractive target in general, in addition to the long travel time/low DPS when attacking them.

[El2aZeR]

41 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Well nothing compared to good‘ol RTS-Hosho.

 

Reworked Hosho nowadays has better average stats than RTS Hosho (end of 2018).

And given that reworked Hosho actually has much higher damage potential since it isn't gated by auto drop or fighters and has far faster planes that's not particularly surprising.

 

Langley meanwhile has comparable stats.

[1MajorKoenig]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Reworked Hosho nowadays has better average stats than RTS Hosho (end of 2018).

And given that reworked Hosho actually has much higher damage potential since it isn't gated by auto drop or fighters and has far faster planes that's not particularly surprising.

 

Langley meanwhile has comparable stats.

Didn’t they have to remove half of the controls from RTS Hosho? 

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Didn’t they have to remove half of the controls from RTS Hosho? 

 

As I said, RTS Hosho was gated by auto drop - and as such suffered under the removal of manual drop.

Which ofc was utterly terrible as they could have and should have just nerfed the alpha instead. Given that Hosho had the same overall TB alpha as Shokaku it was hardly surprising how op low tier CVs were with manual drop.

 

Then again this is WG, so utterly terrible decisions are par for the course.

[DFens_666]

I think it was OP even with autodrop...

You just needed to adjust the drop, so it came in from an angle behind the ship. Ships that turned in actually took more torps

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

I think it was OP even with autodrop...

 

Those are rookie stats compared to what you can do today.

From my NA account: