General CV related discussions.

[sgtscuba]

I'm someone who quite enjoyed playing CV's back in the navyfield days. RTS carriers were actually quite fun for me to play, but the reworked ones aren't as fun. I still feel navyfield has a better (and probably always has) system for carriers.

 

There are multiple things i'd like:

1) The ability to control the carrier again without having to recall all the planes. Whilst the autopilot has gotten better recently, it would still be good to be able to go back steer manually if needed, 

2) Have multiple squads that can be controlled at the same time, but of which the size could be modified instead of being fixed to a size.

3) AA ships actually being useful, instead of just having the RNG "flak"

4) The odd tier carriers back.

[Panocek]

56 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

As a sideeffect, this might kill CVs in CBs too

Guess which ship have permanent DFAA and always was popular pick in CBs

[DeviousDave02]

1 hour ago, arquata2019 said:

should we make a petition to buff all ship's aa? XD

They need more than that. Going at it one thing at a time so far hasn't worked as incremental continuous changes just p*** everyone off and results in either CV's getting annoyed that every ship has suddenly got OG Atlanta levels of AA which shred everything in sight (much to the delight of surface ship players) or Surface ships getting annoyed that 90% of their HP vanishes after one drop while their AA does nothing (much to the CV's delight) and both result in WarGaming then going back and forth between the two basically running in circles.

 

Wargaming need to attack this problem from multiple fronts at the same time with some major changes to how CV's and Surface vessels interact.

 

-Spotting needs changing. Notably how CV's spot for allied ships needs adjusting or removing.

-AA power needs changing and how AA works needs looking at. Mostly because flat out upping damage numbers across the board makes current CV play frustrating due to the chip damage principle they work by which results in a drop that was difficult to pull off due to heavy AA being VERY unrewarding.  

-CV hull control and feedback needs looking at. Mainly how the hull can't be controlled manually without abandoning the squadron already in the air which makes everything more tedious when the autopilot derps.

-CV fighters need improving dramatically as they are little more than glorified scouts at the moment.

-CV roles and purpose need evaluating. Namely what does WarGaming want them to be? Scouts who spot targets for surface vessels to engage and provide support? If so then whole heaps of gameplay systems need to be reworked to reward these actions. Do they want them as Glass cannon damage dealers? If so then the spotting system from planes and sheer survivability of CV hulls needs addressing. 

-The Tiering system needs a look at. Going from T4 - T6 is a huge jump in difficulty, and T6 - T8 is a chasm of difficulty thanks to AA suddenly being semi-effective instead of a joke.

 

I mean AA on it's own is an absolute mess. The AA system in it's current format falls flat due to the way that any AA level that is good enough for surface vessels to happy with (AKA. all planes must die) is inherently far too much AA from a CV's standpoint and vice versa.

AA either needs more components to it so ships can tilt the favors in their odd's without just blowing planes from the sky, eg. causing moral damage to the squadron that hampers it's effectiveness the longer it remains within the AA radius by increasing the time it takes to aim or reducing the time on an attack run (or both) giving the surface ship more time/greater ability to dodge the incoming attack to halt or mitigate damage.

Or

AA needs to have manual player input, for example if the player could jump into the fire control director for the AA guns and improve the damage output of his guns and make flak spawn on or closer to the incoming squadron by keeping the planes inside the aiming sights of the director (some sort of minigame perhaps)

 

That or we go full arcade and just up AA power and visuals so that it looks like something from a Michael Bay movie or the rework BSG series

while also dropping the entire plane deck space and restore time system entirely. Meaning you can shoot down lot's and lot's of planes but the CV doesn't care as he has unlimited reserves with no delay in getting them off the deck.

 

CV makes a miss-play or Surface ship times AA sector well while also positioning correctly? AA will shoot down the entire squadron in glorious fireball O' Doom styling. Surface ship F***s up or get's outplayed by CV? well...

 

In other words it's going to take a bit of effort on WarGamings behalf.... so.... not going to happen (at least until Submarines are in the game)

[DFens_666]

28 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Guess which ship have permanent DFAA and always was popular pick in CBs

 

I have absolutely no idea what you mean

[El2aZeR]

6 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well, if I remember correctly it was a 2pt captain skill to fix that... 

 

In reality that skill was a noob trap and came with heavy penalties.

[Estaca_de_Bares]

3 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

EH well, but there was no way knowing what "loadout" he had.

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

I think you could mostly determine that by the amount of fighters he had? Atleast for IJN CVs. I dont remember the exact loadouts, but Midway had often 2/2/2 IIRC.

There was actually a way to know before battle started, at least regarding some carriers: if you, as a surface ship, hovered your cursor on the CV's silhouette at the pre-battle roster and checked his stats, certain values in planes meant specific modules and CAWs. 38, 45 and 46 in Hiryu meant stock (1/2/2), balanced (2/2/2) and AS (3/1/2) respectively; Ranger's pre-unification values were 45 for strike (0/1/3) and 46 for AS (2/0/2), and the post-unification CAW (1/1/2) showed 46; stock (3/0/1) Saipan was fifty-something while IIRC 28 meant TPB (2/2/0) CAW... However, if you did the hover when you also were in a CV, it gave extra info that was negated to the rest: hovering early during the loading countdown showed the aforementioned values, but after the button for entering the battle appeared they changed in order to include the effects of the upgrades and captain skills. Why it was like that, I don't know.

 

Salute.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

6 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

So yeah, broken or not: I'd rather have my behind kicked by a skilled RTS CV player 1 in every 50 games than being annoyed to death almost every other game by an average joe who goes hurr durr planes go brrrrrrrr.

So much this!

+1 gorillion

[arquata2019_]

@Excavatus can we have any data on cv's ap bombs penetration in mm?

[thisismalacoda]

125k+ damage to aircraft; 14 plane kills.

[BLUB__BLUB]

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Kinda true, the issue is ofc the spotting. Ive had bad CV players do nothing but spot the team for minutes to come, which is just... horrible. He can do that with one plane, even after his hull sunk for 2 (?) minutes.

I suppose he can, but if that is how he makes a "living", then he will soon be financing WG by buying credits... 

 

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

I guess for me as a Cruiser player, the issue is much more pronounced. Going for AA-builds, the CV couldnt just spot me, because you could buff your AA range. Even against good CV players, it did stop them from deleting me. Compared to now, a CV can just circle outside my AA range and spot me for 20 minutes if he feels like it, not to mention easily attack me aswell, if he can dodge flak.

And as i said, you didnt see CVs that often to begin with, not to mention SU CVs. If you met one every 50 games - who cares?

Well, who cares - WG did. As they were supporting a class that nobody played. 

You are right though, current spotting is crap and the AA-version is also crap. 

Too bad since so many better ideas were offered. 

 

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

I think you could mostly determine that by the amount of fighters he had? Atleast for IJN CVs. I dont remember the exact loadouts, but Midway had often 2/2/2 IIRC.

Using DefAA against torpbombers was often not a good choice, as he could follow up with bombers. When he wanted to attack with torp bombers, you could turn in advance, making him spent more time in your AA. If he was going for a crossdrop, focus one side, and turn to the other, making you dodge the stronger squad. Sure you took 2-3 torps most likely, but thats manageable.

Well he didn't have to send up all planes at once... also unless the planes were spotted you couldn't tell either. 

And yes those tactics I used as well, they arte still viable, too. Except that damn FLAK now works crap, on a good CV player. 

 

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Not saying they were perfect, but atleast for me, its worse now, all things considered.

Depends on what your favourite is. In BBs, those CVs were hell. They'd just remove you at will. 

But seems to me everybody forgot that. 

 

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

For many CV players, AA is already OP, so thats not really the answer. Especially since WG will not accept a drop in CV numbers.

DefAA needs to viable again, currently its not. As a sideeffect, this might kill CVs in CBs too

Well some nights I met teams in CB that kinda wrecked all the planes... teamwork works. 

Except the rest of my team then gets what they want. Rarely it all goes up sh...creek and those blobbing teams win. 

 

AA should be more variable. The user should have influence, too. Whoever thought that purely CV-controlled AA is gonna work? It is something like this, but reversed:

Spoiler

 

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

CVs need to be easy to play without much game influence. This might make enough bad players play them, while making them uninteresting for good players.

Well they sort of are doing that already eh. Dammit when I get that FDR might just make me go UUAAARRRGGHHH. 

I mean, what the hell. I like sealclubbing just like the next sadist but doing it with a TANK is kinda too much. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

6 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

In reality that skill was a noob trap and came with heavy penalties.

Agreed that there were better choices. But well... just thinking... 

If you were that close you were a noob anyway, so was the trap really needed then? I mean...

.... if you want to stick your foot in a bears A-hole and keep it there,  does it really need glue as well...  

[BLUB__BLUB]

8 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I have absolutely no idea what you mean

I have, it starts with Woosh and ends on Stah. 

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I have, it starts with Woosh and ends on Stah. 

 

But wooster doesnt fit either criteria?

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

But wooster doesnt fit either criteria?

I think that had it when we had RTS, at least that is why I started grinding it. 

Then again what did I know... I already have a Mino for > a year and still havent finished grinding Wooster. 

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

8 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Depends on what your favourite is. In BBs, those CVs were hell. They'd just remove you at will. 

But seems to me everybody forgot that. 

i wasnt around then

but wouldnt that incentivize those BBs to stick closer to cruisers

wich is something most people want, BBs moving forward

wouldnt be a total fix as cruisers have a habit of abandoning the BBs they asked for help as soon as things look even the slightest bit bad, but atleast there would be some incentive for teamplay and once BBs start supporting cruisers again cruisers might eventually learn to support BBs again 

[arquata2019_]

when will cvs be nerfed?

[Miragetank90]

22 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

when will cvs be nerfed?

 

[_HomTanks_]

The reticule nerf to CVs really helped DDs a lot...or perhaps not? 

 

Edit: Uploaded the video to YT. 46 seconds  could be one of the fastest ship sinks?

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

i wasnt around then

but wouldnt that incentivize those BBs to stick closer to cruisers

wich is something most people want, BBs moving forward

well.... 

 

5 hours ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

wouldnt be a total fix as cruisers have a habit of abandoning the BBs they asked for help as soon as things look even the slightest bit bad,

Yeah you guessed it already. 

 

5 hours ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

but atleast there would be some incentive for teamplay and once BBs start supporting cruisers again cruisers might eventually learn to support BBs again 

At that time I would preferably div up with a DD and a cruiser. 

T7 Hood (has DEF AA), a Sims and a Fiji. 

[AkulaTSR]

This video is exactly whats wrong with this game regarding CVs , absolute garbage.

 

 

[_HomTanks_]

3 minutes ago, AkulaTSR said:

This video is exactly whats wrong with this game regarding CVs , absolute garbage.

Exactly 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

17 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Depends on what your favourite is. In BBs, those CVs were hell. They'd just remove you at will. 

But seems to me everybody forgot that.

Maybe people didn't "forget" it but just didn't encounter so often?

The few games in which my game in a DD, cruiser or BB was utterly ruined were when the enemy had an Unicorn CV player and my team had none. And these battles came around once every couple months, if at all...

So I would gladly go back to the RTS CVs and get instatblapped every couple months instead to have to face the f*cked-up mess we now face with reeewoeked CVs.

[KillStealBoss]

Hey @El2aZeR I see you got the FDR. What are your thoughts about it? It's it worth in your opinion? I'm still hesitating between it and Shikishima.

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, MacArthur92 said:

Hey @El2aZeR I see you got the FDR. What are your thoughts about it? It's it worth in your opinion? I'm still hesitating between it and Shikishima.

 

Game impact is overall kinda meh, a bit MM dependent too as while DDs can be dealt with your tools (the bombers) for it are sub-optimal. Farms hilarious damage on BBs and larger cruisers. The ability to just facetank AA DPS from over half the enemy team is kinda funny.

 

I didn't like it initially, but playing CBs with it has given me a certain appreciation for it.

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Game impact is overall kinda meh, a bit MM dependent too as while DDs can be dealt with your tools (the bombers) for it are sub-optimal. Farms hilarious damage on BBs and larger cruisers. The ability to just facetank AA DPS from over half the enemy team is kinda funny.

 

I didn't like it initially, but playing CBs with it has given me a certain appreciation for it.

So for randoms kinda ok but better for CB... I'm just concerned about this speed of planes. Relatively like Ark Royal on T10.