General CV related discussions.

[The_Norwood]

6 hours ago, Puffin_ said:

How was this better?

Those damage numbers are crazy.

Is this supposed to have been more fun for other ship classes than CV?

Miss the RTS CV =  Miss those crazy damage numbers?

 

 

 

You mean the days when AA worked?

The days when "just dodge" worked?

The days when CVs could counter the other CV with fighters that worked?

The days when planes took time to reload and resupply, giving a short respite from them?

The days when CVs actually had to think about how they would deploy their planes and who to attack, who to avoid?

The days when you could burn a CV and as such it couldn't launch planes?

The days when you could detonate a CV?

The days without rockets?

The days when you had to learn how to play CV and only a few were good enough to make your game not fun, rather than everybody being able to dominate in a CV after only a few goes?

 

Actually, yes, it was immensely superior. But that aside, why do people insist on assuming the only option is reverting to RTS? How about making the AA actually work? How about removing all the extra buffs that make CVs godlike that weren't there before, if RTS was OP without those buffs, why are they needed now? How about a third way? 

 

Show some imagination.

[Puffin_]

9 minutes ago, The_Norwood said:

 

You mean the days when AA worked?

The days when "just dodge" worked?

The days when CVs could counter the other CV with fighters that worked?

The days when planes took time to reload and resupply, giving a short respite from them?

The days when CVs actually had to think about how they would deploy their planes and who to attack, who to avoid?

The days when you could burn a CV and as such it couldn't launch planes?

The days when you could detonate a CV?

The days without rockets?

The days when you had to learn how to play CV and only a few were good enough to make your game not fun, rather than everybody being able to dominate in a CV after only a few goes?

 

Actually, yes, it was immensely superior. But that aside, why do people insist on assuming the only option is reverting to RTS? How about making the AA actually work? How about removing all the extra buffs that make CVs godlike that weren't there before, if RTS was OP without those buffs, why are they needed now? How about a third way? 

 

Show some imagination.

How about getting rid of them. You can always dream  

[El2aZeR]

5 hours ago, The_Norwood said:

The days when you could detonate a CV?

 

That actually didn't exist in RTS either. At least not as far as I remember and it was confirmed sometime around 2016 or 2017 that CVs cannot detonate.

[BLUB__BLUB]

13 hours ago, The_Norwood said:

The days when you could burn a CV and as such it couldn't launch planes?

Well, if I remember correctly it was a 2pt captain skill to fix that...  

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well, if I remember correctly it was a 2pt captain skill to fix that...  

 

3 pts

[UnterSeeBot]

13 hours ago, The_Norwood said:

 

You mean the days when...

<*sniffles*

don't make us cry/.

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

3 pts

^^

[BLUB__BLUB]

17 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

3 pts

Don't worry I will not ask how you know... 

 

But the RTS CVs were poisonous as well. And also OP and broken. 

There is no reason that they went except WG wanted to have the more "PS4" looks. 

Same as the RTS could have been made more bearable, current one can as well. But they just do not want to. 

Instead they invent stuff like Enty, MvR and FDR. I missed out on Enty though...  

[rnat]

14 hours ago, The_Norwood said:

The days when "just dodge" worked?

When was that though ? Real cross drops were a thing then, unless you had DefAA running (and that could be baited) you'd eat a bunch of torps and/or bombs.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, rnat said:

When was that though ? Real cross drops were a thing then, unless you had DefAA running (and that could be baited) you'd eat a bunch of torps and/or bombs.

The most annoying was when the red CV-player was better. Because the best hope you actually had was your own CV-player saving you. 

If he wasn't that good, well you basically were CV food. Because the red CV would deplane or kill yours, and then he could just go ahead. 

 

[st_dasa]

TL;DR

 

CVs were and are bad for the game. Period.

[rnat]

15 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The most annoying was when the red CV-player was better. Because the best hope you actually had was your own CV-player saving you. 

If he wasn't that good, well you basically were CV food. Because the red CV would deplane or kill yours, and then he could just go ahead.

That's true. On a similar skill level your CV would at least usually buy you some time till the enemy got around his fighters, if the difference was lopsided you might as well not have had a CV on your team.

Another difference is that most cruisers and USN/split line VMF could use DefAA to keep themselves reasonably safe from drops and either outright dodge at least mitigate the damage a lot.

 

[arquata2019_]

at least you could use fighters better, and that's what i care more

[GarrusBrutus]

I loved RTS cvs because even IF you had CVs in your game, chances were they wouldnt be that good anyway. The very few times I faced a SU CV player you would just get it over with asap and go back to business as usual. Now you hope every game that the CV simply doesnt chose you as their prime target. If they do, you hope theyre not good. But even if theyre not good, theyre either going to kill you or atleast make your game miserable. 

 

So yeah, broken or not: I'd rather have my behind kicked by a skilled RTS CV player 1 in every 50 games than being annoyed to death almost every other game by an average joe who goes hurr durr planes go brrrrrrrr.

[arquata2019_]

i already asked a wg staff in the ita lang forum about rts cvs return and he answered me a while ago i'm happy

[WarDax]

I see this RTS being mentioned, anyone care to enlighten me? I know carriers have been through a few development stages, but I am not versed in those...

 

That video posted is awful to see, from my perspective... see the pleas of mercy from opposing side is makeing my almost wanna cry...

[DFens_666]

50 minutes ago, rnat said:

When was that though ? Real cross drops were a thing then, unless you had DefAA running (and that could be baited) you'd eat a bunch of torps and/or bombs.

 

All things considered, it was much more enjoyable back then, than it is now. Even if you can argue against everything else, the salvation was atlest to only see CVs like 1-2 times every 10 games. Off hours could have been different for some reason, especially late at night.

But even these individual things were better back then:

- CVs couldnt spot you 40 secs into the game

- AA did something

- DefAA did something, even when your AA was bad

- CVs could get deplaned

- CBs didnt have CVs

- CVs burned like normal ships

- Bad CV players were a non-issue.

[BLUB__BLUB]

36 minutes ago, rnat said:

That's true. On a similar skill level your CV would at least usually buy you some time till the enemy got around his fighters, if the difference was lopsided you might as well not have had a CV on your team.

True. Also even if the reds a had a potater, he'd always manage to do some sinking before your CV finished him off. 

 

36 minutes ago, rnat said:

Another difference is that most cruisers and USN/split line VMF could use DefAA to keep themselves reasonably safe from drops and either outright dodge at least mitigate the damage a lot.

Well yes but if the reds had a good one, he'd send in some "waste" planes and trick the DEF AA.

After that you were toast. Unless you were indeed AND lucky that there was an escape-hole, AND good enough to use it. 

 

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, WarDax said:

That video posted is awful to see, from my perspective... see the pleas of mercy from opposing side is makeing my almost wanna cry...

 

That was not normal tho. Even if you were a bad player who has no AA-build and couldnt manage DefAA properly, most of the time you also encountered bad CV players who were incapable of proper attackruns

[DFens_666]

Just now, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well yes but if the reds had a good one, he'd send in some "waste" planes and trick the DEF AA. 

 

It was always your own decision to active defAA. If you use it for Fighters/torp planes, when he also had AP bombs, well, thats a misplay. In one of the last RTS days, i was playing Seattle, and a CV wanted to bait my DefAA. He always went barely into AA range to hope i would trigger it. I didnt. At some point, i taunted him by saying "you wont bait it" he then went full in, lost all his planes for an overpen AP bomb on me and a torphit on the BB next to me (i believe it was).

After the rework, that memory burned into my brain because of how strong AA ships were back then, and nowadays they are just food for CVs.

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

All things considered, it was much more enjoyable back then, than it is now. Even if you can argue against everything else, the salvation was atlest to only see CVs like 1-2 times every 10 games. Off hours could have been different for some reason, especially late at night.

But even these individual things were better back then:

- CVs couldnt spot you 40 secs into the game

- AA did something

- DefAA did something, even when your AA was bad

- CVs could get deplaned

- CBs didnt have CVs

- CVs burned like normal ships

- Bad CV players were a non-issue.

There's a whole lot to be said against that, though some of it is true. 

Like, currently CVs do not get deplaned but if you run down on 3 planes per squad there's F-all a CV can do. 

Bad CV players were always and issue... if you got one and the reds didn't. Same now, but much worse then.

If you got a bad one and they got a good one... which is less of a problem now.

 

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

That was not normal tho. Even if you were a bad player who has no AA-build and couldnt manage DefAA properly, most of the time you also encountered bad CV players who were incapable of proper attackruns

Well at the lower tiers you had automated drops... there wasn't much difference between a good and a bad player in that way.

Higher tiers the bad players stayed away, which is why you got less CVs. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

It was always your own decision to active defAA. If you use it for Fighters/torp planes, when he also had AP bombs, well, thats a misplay. In one of the last RTS days, i was playing Seattle, and a CV wanted to bait my DefAA. He always went barely into AA range to hope i would trigger it. I didnt. At some point, i taunted him by saying "you wont bait it" he then went full in, lost all his planes for an overpen AP bomb on me and a torphit on the BB next to me (i believe it was).

EH well, but there was no way knowing what "loadout" he had. 

Also, you'd not know how fast he would be back. He might have the other squad near, or not. 

Many times I used DEF AA on Hood, and used it again when he came back. 

 

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

After the rework, that memory burned into my brain because of how strong AA ships were back then, and nowadays they are just food for CVs.

THAT is something I fully agree on. Current DEF AA sucks as well. 

[DFens_666]

13 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Like, currently CVs do not get deplaned but if you run down on 3 planes per squad there's F-all a CV can do.  

Kinda true, the issue is ofc the spotting. Ive had bad CV players do nothing but spot the team for minutes to come, which is just... horrible. He can do that with one plane, even after his hull sunk for 2 (?) minutes.

 

Quote

Bad CV players were always and issue... if you got one and the reds didn't. Same now, but much worse then.

If you got a bad one and they got a good one... which is less of a problem now.

 

I guess for me as a Cruiser player, the issue is much more pronounced. Going for AA-builds, the CV couldnt just spot me, because you could buff your AA range. Even against good CV players, it did stop them from deleting me. Compared to now, a CV can just circle outside my AA range and spot me for 20 minutes if he feels like it, not to mention easily attack me aswell, if he can dodge flak.

And as i said, you didnt see CVs that often to begin with, not to mention SU CVs. If you met one every 50 games - who cares?

 

7 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

EH well, but there was no way knowing what "loadout" he had. 

Also, you'd not know how fast he would be back. He might have the other squad near, or not. 

Many times I used DEF AA on Hood, and used it again when he came back. 

 

I think you could mostly determine that by the amount of fighters he had? Atleast for IJN CVs. I dont remember the exact loadouts, but Midway had often 2/2/2 IIRC.

Using DefAA against torpbombers was often not a good choice, as he could follow up with bombers. When he wanted to attack with torp bombers, you could turn in advance, making him spent more time in your AA. If he was going for a crossdrop, focus one side, and turn to the other, making you dodge the stronger squad. Sure you took 2-3 torps most likely, but thats manageable.

 

Not saying they were perfect, but atleast for me, its worse now, all things considered.

[arquata2019_]

should we make a petition to buff all ship's aa? XD

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

should we make a petition to buff all ship's aa? XD

 

For many CV players, AA is already OP, so thats not really the answer. Especially since WG will not accept a drop in CV numbers.

DefAA needs to viable again, currently its not. As a sideeffect, this might kill CVs in CBs too

 

CVs need to be easy to play without much game influence. This might make enough bad players play them, while making them uninteresting for good players.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

In the RTS days seeing skilled carriers duking it out overhead fighting eachother was just an awesome thing to see while fighting at sea level. Also having less carriers per 10 games on all tiers was great.

In the redesign days seeing carriers overuse noob rocket as a last resort when they fail to hit anything with torpedoes or bombs is excruciating to watch. Having 4 carriers per match in low tiers is absolute horspewp.

 

Both were toxic for sealevel gameplay, but redesigned carriers take the cake in both bad gamedesign as well as the bad quality players they produce.