General CV related discussions.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I think you explained that very clearly. AT some point though, they might do understand that a better game = more money. 

fixed that for you

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

The problem is that the majority of spenders and regular spenders is likely more than fine with the current state of the game and its because of that that WG doesn't see a huge need for faster or more community driven changes. 

 

And those spenders don't come to the forums to complain. They don't even know 80% about what we talk about here. Those probably don't even understand the complexity of the game but still enjoy it. This is the problem 

Yeah, I agree.You mean like these:  

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

32 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

fixed that for you

Ah well, even that is likely a bit optimistic.... 

because there's plenty of those T10 P-T-W dudes.

[HarlequinCahia]

Deleting audio voiceover from commander about starting squadron, being under AA fire and preparing to fire is the worst thing about this CV change. These voice lines were done so good and brought something interesting, to not fall asleep when playing CV. Now it's more dull and boring than ever. Bring that back, please.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

3 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I think you explained that very clearly. AT some point though, they do understand that a better game = more money. 

Again, 'better' in this case might differ depending on point of view.

[UnterSeeBot]

breaking news, earth shattering development now on WOWS forum

Spoiler

200 pages!

 

2 hours ago, HarlequinCahia said:

Deleting audio voiceover from commander about starting squadron, being under AA fire and preparing to fire is the worst thing about this CV change. These voice lines were done so good and brought something interesting, to not fall asleep when playing CV. Now it's more dull and boring than ever. Bring that back, please.

I just turn WOWS volume off, zero sounds, zero music. probably not what sound engineers want to read. The sounds effects are great, but I can't multitask a WOWS battle with home/work stuff, (you know, pretend to be busy when really gaming) with the sound on.

 

edit : memo to WOWS sound engineers, we need a sound file that we can activate in emergency situations (boss knocks on the office door), so that WOWS battle sounds are replaced with officy sounding noises, chatter, rustling paper, photocopiers whirring, doorbells... Activated with a shortcut, FK for emergency, for example.

[hairy_poppins]

I would be content with the newish CV power and behaviour if AA matched their buff

As it is if I I arrive and it is a tier X CV I might as well either sign off or just huddle at the back for AA cover. I notice people criticising huddling however there is no other way of protecting against massive virtually guaranteed CV danage

Getting bored and beginning to look at other games

[Lordcrafty]

2 hours ago, hairy_poppins said:

I would be content with the newish CV power and behaviour if AA matched their buff

As it is if I I arrive and it is a tier X CV I might as well either sign off or just huddle at the back for AA cover. I notice people criticising huddling however there is no other way of protecting against massive virtually guaranteed CV danage

Getting bored and beginning to look at other games

carriers may have disproportionate game impact but if it's effecting your game on such a significant level you need to change something in your play. "newish CV power and behaviour" and "buff" is a bit funny when they've taken major nerfs after the rework and with the rework (of course they're not balanced but still better than just after the rework). At the end of the day AA isn't really for protecting your ship it's for the plane management minigame of the CV, it's not really going to be visible to you how AA is effecting the match unless if you're massively huddled as in your example since it just doesn't defend you, it means that the CV player doesn't want to keep losing the same planes... AA is there to shoot down planes not prevent strikes, otherwise they would give players some sort of shield xD, you also can't expect to just be able to nullify the CVs attacks on your own that would be pretty silly. The issue lies not in AA, although I think that redistributing and reworking AA so that it's better spread out across ships and classes and so that singular AA means more and grouped AA less would help start fixing a lot of issues if they want to keep the current AA model.

edit: Also, when do you notice when a carrier doesn't want to strike you because of your AA/positioning? They just choose a better target instead.

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

i can angle and negate a BBs attacks

why is there no such play against CVs 

deplaning doesnt matter as you cant really run out without aiming for every flak cloud 

[Lordcrafty]

14 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

i can angle and negate a BBs attacks

why is there no such play against CVs 

deplaning doesnt matter as you cant really run out without aiming for every flak cloud 

lol, if a CV player wanted to they could kill off their planes quite easily, but you'll find that most don't

edit: there's also counterplay against CVs, it just usually kills you or makes you useless to the team 

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

like i said

deliberately run into flak clouds

else your planes are pretty safe 

you have to do effort to lose them 

[159Hunter]

5 hours ago, Lordcrafty said:

carriers may have disproportionate game impact but if it's effecting your game on such a significant level you need to change something in your play. "newish CV power and behaviour" and "buff" is a bit funny when they've taken major nerfs after the rework and with the rework (of course they're not balanced but still better than just after the rework). At the end of the day AA isn't really for protecting your ship it's for the plane management minigame of the CV, it's not really going to be visible to you how AA is effecting the match unless if you're massively huddled as in your example since it just doesn't defend you, it means that the CV player doesn't want to keep losing the same planes... AA is there to shoot down planes not prevent strikes, otherwise they would give players some sort of shield xD, you also can't expect to just be able to nullify the CVs attacks on your own that would be pretty silly. The issue lies not in AA, although I think that redistributing and reworking AA so that it's better spread out across ships and classes and so that singular AA means more and grouped AA less would help start fixing a lot of issues if they want to keep the current AA model.

edit: Also, when do you notice when a carrier doesn't want to strike you because of your AA/positioning? They just choose a better target instead.

So you are saying they have too much impact,

You also state that AA is there only to add some hurdles to CVs,

You are OK with CV strikes being unstoppable, but find the fact that anybody stopping a strike silly. 

 

All you are saying is: you silly boats have no impact on my planes. Let me play my own minigame, detached from the 22 other players and I'm happy.

Does that sound like a fun, balanced concept for the other 22 players? 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

3 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Let me play my own minigame, detached from the 22 other players and I'm happy.

The carrier rework in a nutshell lol. OMG i still can't get over how rotten the core design of the rework is for a PVP enviroment. 

 

And the players it pampers to...  I called out a carrier yesterday who forced a Thunderer about to run into my Hayate torpedoes to change direction by attacking it when my torps were about to hit it. The Thunderer was about 4 km away from being devestated running straight into my incoming fishes when the carrier started an attack and forced it to turn into his planes making sure my torpedo run missed. The reply of this genius was: I can't read minds can I? Sure, mate, but you can read the sea no? 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

How can you expect any big brain move from some random player :(? 

[Lordcrafty]

4 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

So you are saying they have too much impact,

You also state that AA is there only to add some hurdles to CVs,

You are OK with CV strikes being unstoppable, but find the fact that anybody stopping a strike silly. 

 

All you are saying is: you silly boats have no impact on my planes. Let me play my own minigame, detached from the 22 other players and I'm happy.

Does that sound like a fun, balanced concept for the other 22 players? 

I'm just pointing out the current state of CVs not my opinion on them xD. These are straight facts I'm spitting right now. Also what I said is that AA has impact on planes just not a visible one unless the CV player isn't very good as you said at the top it's there to add hurdles to CVs not protect you from strikes. I never suggested that It was fun for anyone or in any way balanced.

The reason why I said that stopping a strike on your own is silly is because if any ship alone could shoot down a full strike before it hits with just AA then the CV would never hit anything at all. There's also no real reason for AA cruisers with the removal of RTS. They would most likely just cause more huddling, there should really be a better solution. But the end point is that one of the ideas with the rework is that just like a shell from a ship there should be almost nothing which completely protects you from CV, the issue is that CV makes it's own spotting with zero effort.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, Lordcrafty said:

I'm just pointing out the current state of CVs not my opinion on them xD. These are straight facts I'm spitting right now. Also what I said is that AA has impact on planes just not a visible one unless the CV player isn't very good as you said at the top it's there to add hurdles to CVs not protect you from strikes. I never suggested that It was fun for anyone or in any way balanced.

The reason why I said that stopping a strike on your own is silly is because if any ship alone could shoot down a full strike before it hits with just AA then the CV would never hit anything at all. There's also no real reason for AA cruisers with the removal of RTS. They would most likely just cause more huddling, there should really be a better solution. But the end point is that one of the ideas with the rework is that just like a shell from a ship there should be almost nothing which completely protects you from CV, the issue is that CV makes it's own spotting with zero effort.

The argument that 'any ship being able to stop a strike on your own makes carriers unable to hit anything' is a pointlesss exaggeration and I'm surprised people keep bringing that absurdity up. Every time it's used my forehead is swollen by a massive facepalm. No one is asking for all ships to be able stop carrier strike always at willy nilly.

 

It is not about every ship being able to do that, but for the sake of teamplay it would be great if some of the traditional AA ships (edit: AA cruisers) in WOWS can create a near to no fly zone under certain conditions like using the right consumables and speccing out for AA f.e. (it's only bloody 6 km in most cases ffs) so carriers don't simply blerp into a group of ships to kill off a low HP target that seeked protection with the insane zero skill nab rocket planes. It's a team game after all, except for carriers that is :P

[DFens_666]

21 minutes ago, Europizza said:

The argument that 'any ship being able to stop a strike on your own makes carriers unable to hit anything' is a pointlesss exaggeration and I'm surprised people keep bringing that absurdity up. Every time it's used my forehead is swollen by a massive facepalm. No one is asking for all ships to be able stop carrier strike always at willy nilly.

 

It is not about every ship being able to do that, but for the sake of teamplay it would be great if some of the traditional AA ships in WOWS can create a near to no fly zone under certain conditions like using the right consumables and speccing out for AA f.e. (it's only bloody 6 km in most cases ffs) so carriers don't simply blerp into a group of ships to kill off a low HP target that seeked protection with the bloody zero skill nab rocket planes. It's a team game after all, except for carriers that is :P

 

As long as WG things, BBs need to be the least vulnerable against CVs (be it because good AA+fighter or most HP + heal or best armor and torp protection), it wont work properly.

BBs need to be the main target for a CV. And if a BB is wandering off alone, then thats the target a CV should go for, and not the Cruiser sitting in a blob of 3 ships because "yes i can".

 

DDs should be able to be attacked, but not for such massive amount as we see. They should get away with being small and nimble with good concealment.

Cruisers should be hard to strike, some impossible when being full AA (Atlanta f.e.). Basicly the more squishy, the better AA should be as they rely upon not being spotted. Being spotted, taking potential devastating damage from surface ships AND taking devastating damage from CVs is just insane.

BBs should be the easiest targets.

Then it could work maybe. But right now its upside down. It would actually encourage BBs to move with their Cruisers, and not sit in spawn. But as long as CVs can [edited]DDs and Cruisers at will, striking a camping BB would be just dumb. Thats why, CVs need to be forced to strike lone BBs, so BBs learn teamplay.

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

BBs cant dodge

and with germans added to kill engines and citadel with every run

the statement that BBs are the most safe from CVs is a joke, they have even less counterplay then cruisers who can pretend to "just dodge"

the fighter consumable also doesnt matter as you actively need to ram them for them to do anything at all 

also the whole thing about BBs having the most hp is also tunnelvisioning while ignoring all the downsides that come with it, no dodging, large area to attack, no concealment

sure they have a lot of hp but thats because thats all they have 

any BB moving forward with the cruisers will be easy damage farm for the CV that spots them from the other side of the map, and since cruisers cant scare away planes the CV isnt going to change its attack run and find a different target just because a few cruisers that dispersion might screw them over with are along the way

and as soon as it drops its bombs you lose engines, then your cruisers run and hide behind islands while you cant stop and you get blamed for overextending 

because a engineless BB needs half the map to stop 

and dont even bring up using repair later, the next drop will kill engines again 

 

wonky as it might sound, the safest ships are DDs, smoke, concealment and while aiming rockets is one of the easiest things in the game, its still a high skill floor for most CV players giving DD turncircle and surface area ships a slight tiny miniscule chance of surviving if the CV wants them dead

ofcourse all that is countered by how fast things end when things go wrong and ofcourse how much DDs suffer without concealment 

currently nobody is safe and nobody is having a good time 

its just that some people die and others suffer

and then die 

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

*snip*

 

Except thats irrelevant, because i said, Cruiser AA needs to be buffed. This way, Cruisers would help their BBs stay alive with AA, IF the BB understands to be close to his Cruisers and not sleep at the back of the map. At the same time, the BBs help to keep his Cruisers alive by being an active threat.

 

8 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

wonky as it might sound, the safest ships are DDs, smoke, concealment and while aiming rockets is one of the easiest things in the game, its still a high skill floor for most CV players giving DD turncircle and surface area ships a slight tiny miniscule chance of surviving if the CV wants them dead

 

Its not only about attacking the DD. The major problem is being spotted in situations, where the DD is vulnerable. Even a bad CV player can spot a DD - by accident - to ruin his game. Some CV players also just hoover above your smoke, which is ofc stupid, but doesnt help you, as your smoke will run out eventually.

[Itwastuesday]

I have a solution. 

 

The AA damage inflicted on planes is also directly inflicted on the CV itself.

 

SOLVED!

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

26 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Except thats irrelevant, because i said, Cruiser AA needs to be buffed. This way, Cruisers would help their BBs stay alive with AA, IF the BB understands to be close to his Cruisers and not sleep at the back of the map. At the same time, the BBs help to keep his Cruisers alive by being an active threat.

 

 

Its not only about attacking the DD. The major problem is being spotted in situations, where the DD is vulnerable. Even a bad CV player can spot a DD - by accident - to ruin his game. Some CV players also just hoover above your smoke, which is ofc stupid, but doesnt help you, as your smoke will run out eventually.

true on both 

your conclusions where correct, just the thing about BBs not suffering so much in the current state of the game because of more hp was wrong 

 

good cruiser aa would force a CV to reconsider the attack run he started if he spotted cruisers supporting the BB

both costing time and possibly planes in the retreat

once apon a time cruisers where the CV counter and they should have that role back 

 

and yea, smoke doesnt save you

it just adds the suffering before death

everyone dies 

a planned DD stealth attack/spot is countered just as easily by a CV as a BB trying to push to support 

resulting in the current meta of nobody helping anyone and with the low tiers being 4CV hell nobody learns to help eachother in the matches where there is no CV 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

24 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

resulting in the current meta of nobody helping anyone and with the low tiers being 4CV hell nobody learns to help eachother in the matches where there is no CV 

WG has systematically removed a lot of team oriented aspects of the game over the years in favor of a focus on ego centric resource farming. The carrier redesign is the ultimate cherry on the pie in that regard. It's forcefully removed from the pvp gameplay layer where the other 22 players reside in. They can't even fight eachother properly ffs. It's a solo experience slapped on a pvp enviroment.

 

Because resource gathering is what makes revenue: people with uncontrollable urges. Not decent gameplay in a team oriented pvp shooter. Gah. What are we thinking??! 

[DFens_666]

19 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

just the thing about BBs not suffering so much in the current state of the game because of more hp was wrong  

 

Id say they do suffer less compared to DDs and Cruisers.

Being spotted is usually less of an issue for BBs compared to the others. Leaves being attacked by a CV

- Rockets are least effective against BBs

- AP rockets are in the middle

- Torps, while being easiest to hit, BBs also take the least amount of damage. Often you can just ignore them, or dodge them partially.

- HE Bombs hurt, and most average CV players will have an easier time hitting a BB than something else

- AP bombs hurt too, but not all BBs equally. Some are well protected, resulting in pens with "minor" damage. Sure, german AP bombs seem to be able to citadel all? BBs, but taking 26k damage as a Cruiser is not great either.

 

And then there is the thing with CV player skill:

A good CV player wont attack a BB, unless you are in a position where he has to attack you, or he already killed everything else and you are left.

A bad CV player might attack a BB regardless, but those usually dont pose a big threat. They wont get proper drops of, heck, ive seen them miss rockets

 

Overall, CVs have the least influence on me when i play BB.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 hour ago, Itwastuesday said:

I have a solution. 

 

The AA damage inflicted on planes is also directly inflicted on the CV itself.

 

SOLVED!

So every CV dies after x minutes automatically, since you can't dodge "continoues dps"?

After losing 1, 2 squads, the CV sniping would start

[Itwastuesday]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

So every CV dies after x minutes automatically, since you can't dodge "continoues dps"?

After losing 1, 2 squads, the CV sniping would start

Yes!