General CV related discussions.

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

but it just seems very risky to me

 

Indeed. If you find someone who understands what you are doing you are toast. Once had a Shima sneak through the center of the map on Haven, to try to get our Cap. I speedboosted him down with my Henri and killed it Kinda ruined my game, but also won the game, since enemies were dangerously close to get a points win later on, and without me interfering they would have won.

[ForlornSailor]

5 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

maybe with all the parsevals which will just ignore you but it just seems very risky to me, that's from the viewpoint of a mostly CV main though, so there'll need to be a second opinion xD

And here lies a lot of truth: If you flank like this, a good CV will notice. Then he will come, spot you & kill you. A bad CV wont notice such a sneaky move so the DD suceeds. Then he kills a useless CV, who was no threat to your team. Either way, he achives nothing.

 

12 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

But, a dd that flanks, gets into a position to perma spot enemy units from their rear, offers torp spam threat to enemy rear, and has an opportunity to threaten the enemy CV, while staying alive? Is that so bad?

 

I dont do that in any of my DDs. Apart from clanwars, where this might be needed, depending on the situation - but thats something completly different again.

Here is the thing: I rather stay central or go where the heat is, because thats where the good enemy players are aswell. And if you want to win the game, you attack those. As described above, if the good player in the enemy team is the CV, then there is nothing you can do either way. If I´d see @El2aZeR in the enemy team in a CV, rest assured I would not try to flank and torp him, eventhough I know, he is the biggest factor for the enemys winning the game.

[Lordcrafty]

2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

If I´d see @El2aZeR in the enemy team in a CV, rest assured I would not try to flank and torp him, eventhough I know, he is the biggest factor for the enemys winning the game.

Imagine trying to sneak up on El2aZeR in a DD, you're dead meat.

[UnterSeeBot]

1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

I dont do that in any of my DDs. Apart from clanwars, where this might be needed, depending on the situation - but thats something completly different again.

Here is the thing: I rather stay central or go where the heat is, because thats where the good enemy players are aswell. And if you want to win the game, you attack those. As described above, if the good player in the enemy team is the CV, then there is nothing you can do either way. If I´d see @El2aZeR in the enemy team in a CV, rest assured I would not try to flank and torp him, eventhough I know, he is the biggest factor for the enemys winning the game.

a) when there is a really good CV player on the enemy team, you have probably lost anyway.

b) how often do you see a really good CV player on the enemy team? (rarely)

c) as for good enemy players, there are all kinds, but a good player will seek to exploit vulnerabilities, whereever they are found.

[Lordcrafty]

5 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

a) when there is a really good CV player on the enemy team, you have probably lost anyway.

b) how often do you see a really good CV player on the enemy team? (rarely)

c) as for good enemy players, there are all kinds, but a good player will seek to exploit vulnerabilities, whereever they are found.

a) lol, that's an interesting attitude there.
b) I should think you find a good enough CV player plenty when there isn't a new line.
c) flanking like that isn't really exploiting any weaknesses, it's only really a weakness if the enemy team isn't very skilled/doesn't notice

edit: does that mean that you'll just give up and let me win whenever you see me on the enemy team?

[DFens_666]

13 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

Imagine trying to sneak up on El2aZeR in a DD, you're dead meat.

 

How it would actually look like

 

[ForlornSailor]

6 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

a) when there is a really good CV player on the enemy team, you have probably lost anyway.

 

A good 3x division (even without CV) can work against it.

 

6 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

b) how often do you see a really good CV player on the enemy team? (rarely)

 

Really good? 2 in 100 games maybe. Thats when your game is really destroyed by the enemy CV. During several hundred games as a DD since CV rework Ive witnessed it only a vrey few times tho. Then there are the decent CVs. they can be annoying but they usualy dont have what it takes to wipe you out alone and will waste a lot of time with you. Annoying but doesnt stop you. That happens somewhat more often. Eventhough recently its decreasing aswell. The bad CV players are absolutly the majority by now.

 

10 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

c) as for good enemy players, there are all kinds, but a good player will seek to exploit vulnerabilities, whereever they are found.

Ofc. but for the enemy good player goes the same as for me: if he dodges the fight with me, he gives me the mapcontrol and feeds his meatshiels to me aswell. You cant do that. Ive had games, where, for different reasons, our division was left standing alone against 6, 7 sometimes even 8 enemys. You are left with a situation, thats usualy not winnable anymore. Those 8 must be the absolute worst players in the world for you to have a chance to comeback. And given that they wiped your team at that point, the usualy aint. So you have to "protect" your teammates from getting sunk. They might be useless, but they are points and health as long as they float. Thats why I like to be upfront, close and personal. Then its up to you to deal with whatever the enemys throws at you. If you fail - well, then you got nothing to blame but yourself.

[BLUB__BLUB]

24 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

maybe with all the parsevals which will just ignore you but it just seems very risky to me, that's from the viewpoint of a mostly CV main though, so there'll need to be a second opinion xD

Well even in Parsefal a Shima is a nice snack, really.  I play ~30/30/30 CV/BB/CL and the rest DD.

But even I know what is good to do in a DD and what is kinda useless.

Yes he'd be useful if he spotted the other ships from the rear and gave them surprise buttshags. 

But usually those do not dare... suppose the spotted ships go hunt him. Well Mino might have radar (usually smoke) but the others haven't. 

 

I got a T8 Silliwangi from a container (well what the heck... ) and I hardly know what to do with it. 

It has puny DPS, deepwatertorps and a detection range compared to a fat cruiser. However it does have smoke and hydro. 

But I dare say I'm more useful... and I am a total and utter N00b with DDs. I'll snack on other DDs if I can, though.

CVs usually will not catch me. I play them myself and I know what they do... 

 

Spoiler

 

[Lordcrafty]

8 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Really good? 2 in 100 games maybe. Thats when your game is really destroyed by the enemy CV. During several hundred games as a DD since CV rework Ive witnessed it only a vrey few times tho. Then there are the decent CVs. they can be annoying but they usualy dont have what it takes to wipe you out alone and will waste a lot of time with you. Annoying but doesnt stop you. That happens somewhat more often. Eventhough recently its decreasing aswell. The bad CV players are absolutly the majority by now.

how can I work out if I'm a potato CV, an annoyance or "really good"?

[UnterSeeBot]

16 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

a) lol, that's an interesting attitude there.
b) I should think you find a good enough CV player plenty when there isn't a new line.
c) flanking like that isn't really exploiting any weaknesses, it's only really a weakness if the enemy team isn't very skilled/doesn't notice

a) Is it? It seems to be the majority opinion here that CVs in the hands of a good player, have overwhelming influence on match outcomes.

b) in random battles? Not really (unless you play at very low population hours)

c) flanking when there is no opposition? Of course it is exploiting a weakness. If you see an opening in the enemy defence, it makes sense to abuse that opening for maximum advantage.

[CptBarney]

yes bois just one page away from 200

den just another 350 to go before we get back to where we started.

 

 

[UnterSeeBot]

Just now, CptBarney said:

yes bois just one page away from 200

den just another 350 to go before we get back to where we started.

 

 

we are working on it.

[Lordcrafty]

Just now, CptBarney said:

yes bois just one page away from 200

den just another 350 to go before we get back to where we started.

 

 

we're going strong Barney, let's keep up the good work. 

[UnterSeeBot]

12 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

A good 3x division (even without CV) can work against it.

I say, probably. There are exceptional moments, when I shine even against impossible odds. But such moments are exceptionally rare  Agreed, a 3 div does help balance the odds.

 

14 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Really good? 2 in 100 games maybe. Thats when your game is really destroyed by the enemy CV. During several hundred games as a DD since CV rework Ive witnessed it only a vrey few times tho. Then there are the decent CVs. they can be annoying but they usualy dont have what it takes to wipe you out alone and will waste a lot of time with you. Annoying but doesnt stop you. That happens somewhat more often. Eventhough recently its decreasing aswell. The bad CV players are absolutly the majority by now.

yup. And because they are the majority (the bad cv players), dds can have some unorthodox fun. (even if frowned upon as behaving in an unprofessional manner..)

15 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Ofc. but for the enemy good player goes the same as for me: if he dodges the fight with me, he gives me the mapcontrol and feeds his meatshiels to me aswell. You cant do that. Ive had games, where, for different reasons, our division was left standing alone against 6, 7 sometimes even 8 enemys. You are left with a situation, thats usualy not winnable anymore. Those 8 must be the absolute worst players in the world for you to have a chance to comeback. And given that they wiped your team at that point, the usualy aint. So you have to "protect" your teammates from getting sunk. They might be useless, but they are points and health as long as they float. Thats why I like to be upfront, close and personal. Then its up to you to deal with whatever the enemys throws at you. If you fail - well, then you got nothing to blame but yourself.

You are probably right, generally speaking (about map control). But random battles throw up so many different situations, adapt and win so they say.

[ForlornSailor]

2 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

how can I work out if I'm a potato CV, an annoyance or "really good"?

 

Judging by your recent stats, you are definatly very good, top 5% easily. Id rather see you on my side then the enemy team when playing a DD

 

2 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

a) Is it? It seems to be the majority opinion here that CVs in the hands of a good player, have overwhelming influence on match outcomes.

 

They do. In both directions. You see people with ~30% WR on their CVs and the only reason, they win a few here and there, is, that they face other sheep-like CVs all the time, so the decision who wins, is up to the team. On the other end, you find this:

Mind you, this is solo! I dont reach 80% in tripple divisions on a long run (well only with my favourite ships or when im sealclubbing) so eventhough we have to ofc take personal skill into concideration, such an impact as one player of 12 is huuuge and the ship/class contributes to that.

[BLUB__BLUB]

40 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

how can I work out if I'm a potato CV, an annoyance or "really good"?

Seems to me you're quite "crafty", you'd probably beat my behind unless I was with buddies (which I usually am though). 

 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

5 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Absolutly. Easy. One of the best things that can happen to you as a shima. You have a huge concealment advantage, they dont have any smoke, no hydro, no radar. Thats a piece of cake. He has a KURFÜRST as backup withhin 10 km to both DDs, oh man, I would kill for a random secondary BB to support my DD gameplay this way. Taking that flank would have litteraly been a walk in the park. After the DDs are dead, which is only a matter of time with the secondary of Kurfürst pounding them, the path for 3 BBs was open. With the exeption of Minotaur no hydro in sight either.

 

I can only speak from my experience, but if it was me in that Shima - which I wouldn't be, as I don't try to snipe enemy CVs - that Big Currywurst would be a braindead windowlicker that would probably have his secondaries deactivated and going full tunnelvision spamming HE at the enemy Vladi ahead of him... what would end with me in the Shimmi getting gangb*nged by them two DDs and the Currywurst mortally frightened by the many swedish torps coming it's way...

[ForlornSailor]

40 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

I can only speak from my experience, but if it was me in that Shima - which I wouldn't be, as I don't try to snipe enemy CVs - that Big Currywurst would be a braindead windowlicker that would probably have his secondaries deactivated and going full tunnelvision spamming HE at the enemy Vladi ahead of him... what would end with me in the Shimmi getting gangb*nged by them two DDs and the Currywurst mortally frightened by the many swedish torps coming it's way...

 Gotta be honest here: looking at the minimap - I couldnt help myself but have the same thoughts about that Kurfürst :D

[Lordcrafty]

just out of interest. Does WG actually listen to any feedback or take suggestions whatsoever on CVs?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

16 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

just out of interest. Does WG actually listen to any feedback or take suggestions whatsoever on CVs?

They do, you can see it in their attempted balancing. Which isn't really working. 

 

Note that listening doesn't mean to do what the community says. 

[Lordcrafty]

Just now, Zuihou_Kai said:

They do, you can see it in their attempted balancing. Which isn't really working. 

 

Note that listening doesn't mean to do what the community says. 

oh, great WG gods hear my plea, balance CV by making AA more skill based, introduce more consumables/abilities for it and make it arcade style to match CV gameplay instead trying to keep any sense of realism.

[UnterSeeBot]

1 hour ago, Lordcrafty said:

just out of interest. Does WG actually listen to any feedback or take suggestions whatsoever on CVs?

WG collates general sentiment, positive/negative. But it only reacts in very incremental (minor) ways to community feelings. It hardly ever (if ever) recognizes specific technical feedback, I certainly cannot recall suggestions on improved CV mechanics being either recognized, or acted upon. But it does seem to pay attention to how we feel, happy or sad, about changes, which is maybe why this thread is allowed to exist, it offers entertainment to devs and producers.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

6 hours ago, Lordcrafty said:

just out of interest. Does WG actually listen to any feedback or take suggestions whatsoever on CVs?

When people here on the forum mention WG 'listening' or 'learning', you have to understand that WG as an entity has a very different focus then players do. It always makes me cringe hearing people say WG 'learned' from the first horrible Xmas dockyard event. What they 'learned' is where the community vocal threshold lies, but at the same time where the actualy monetary threshold sits. Two very different things it seems. A predator will observe and learn how it's prey behaves so they will be more succesfull next time. This is the same thing.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

When people here on the forum mention WG 'listening' or 'learning', you have to understand that WG as an entity has a very different focus then players do. It always makes me cringe hearing people say WG 'learned' from the first horrible Xmas dockyard event. What they 'learned' is where the community vocal threshold lies, but at the same time where the actualy monetary threshold sits. Two very different things it seems. A predator will observe and learn how it's prey behaves so they will be more succesfull next time. This is the same thing.

I think you explained that very clearly. AT some point though, they do understand that a better game = more money. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

47 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I think you explained that very clearly. AT some point though, they do understand that a better game = more money. 

The problem is that the majority of spenders and regular spenders is likely more than fine with the current state of the game and its because of that that WG doesn't see a huge need for faster or more community driven changes. 

 

And those spenders don't come to the forums to complain. They don't even know 80% about what we talk about here. Those probably don't even understand the complexity of the game but still enjoy it. This is the problem