General CV related discussions.

[Pikkozoikum]

5 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The main problem being, if you do 99% damage but the plane makes it back, it gets repaired - no problem.

That game, where I got 144k AA damage with Shikishima :3

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That game, where I got 144k AA damage with Shikishima :3

Yeah and no planes shot down? This is why. 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yeah and no planes shot down? This is why. 

 

Something around 30 planes, though doesn't matter. I mean when we go with total damage numbers like 200k in a match, who is talking there about ship kills? :3

[Eikkuu]

Il y a 13 minutes, BLUB__BLUB a dit :

The main problem being, if you do 99% damage but the plane makes it back, it gets repaired - no problem.

Yeap

[159Hunter]

58 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The main problem being, if you do 99% damage but the plane makes it back, it gets repaired - no problem.

Thank you for saving me the time to explain this myself. I thought it was obvious from my post, clearly it wasn't...

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Something around 30 planes, though doesn't matter. I mean when we go with total damage numbers like 200k in a match, who is talking there about ship kills? :3

 We all are. That's why the likes of Conquerer doesn't win games damage farming. Insta repairing damaged planes is the second most stupid thing about the carrier rework next to rocketspamming. Why repair at all. Let the damage stick for f sake. Doing plane damage means nothing if it doesn't lead to kills.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

On 10/6/2020 at 7:17 AM, Hades_warrior said:

You have guts to call others a glue eaters and potatos while you play the most broken ships in the game like kaga and enterprise?

Kaga broken, the minute it is in a tier 10 game, may as well alt F4, DD's don't even turn off their flak anymore.

[AndyHill]

From what I've seen far, the meta in the latest CBs looks like long range sniping from hell, with Slavas and Petros in the mix with Venezias and Stalins. I would never have guessed.

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Thank you for saving me the time to explain this myself. I thought it was obvious from my post, clearly it wasn't...

Well, sometimes you shoot down 50 polanes and you have almost no damage on the planes.

Which is, because your DD is sailing next to that Smolensk... he damages 99% and you "secure the kill". 

Very satisfying... DUH. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 hours ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Kaga broken, the minute it is in a tier 10 game, may as well alt F4, DD's don't even turn off their flak anymore.

Boarfff well maybe you have a different Kaga than I have... 

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

how many credits do you get from plane damage 

maybe if that was buffed a lot you wouldnt make as much of a loss if your the first person the CV decides to ruin 

will still suck, but would reduce the suckage a little 

[159Hunter]

10 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well, sometimes you shoot down 50 polanes and you have almost no damage on the planes.

Which is, because your DD is sailing next to that Smolensk... he damages 99% and you "secure the kill". 

Very satisfying... DUH. 

True, too bad in this case the only ships near me were a Benson and a Vladi. Not like they "stole" a lot of plane kills :D

[DFens_666]

18 hours ago, Europizza said:

 We all are. That's why the likes of Conquerer doesn't win games damage farming. Insta repairing damaged planes is the second most stupid thing about the carrier rework next to rocketspamming. Why repair at all. Let the damage stick for f sake. Doing plane damage means nothing if it doesn't lead to kills.

 

Repair time could be equal to plane regeneration.

So new plane = 100%

If a plane has lost 50% of its health, it needs half the time of a new plane to be replenished.

That would make sense imo.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Repair time could be equal to plane regeneration.

So new plane = 100%

If a plane has lost 50% of its health, it needs half the time of a new plane to be replenished.

That would make sense imo.

But a useless proposal because since only the same plane is ever hit by damage only one plane will ever have to be repaired. 

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

But a useless proposal because since only the same plane is ever hit by damage only one plane will ever have to be repaired. 

 

Isnt that only true if you would only attack once per squad always?

I mean, you go in first drop, first plane gets damage. If that part of squad leaves, next plane gets damaged. ofc always depends if that damaged plane gets shot down or not and if yes, if a 2nd plane also gets damaged.

Or if part of a squad takes a flak hit and gets recalled (assuming they all dont die afterwards) but i think theoretically might happen. Not sure tho if or how often that would happen. Cant really tell about noob-CV players here, they do all kinds of stupid crap

[Yosha_AtaIante]

I don't know. 

I believe the restoration time never was about planes being repaired or created but to simulate loading new planes on deck via elevators. So damaged planes probably would just be abandoned. I would suggest counting damaged planes as "unusable" and a loss. Punishes players who touch flak even harder too since due to flak 3 - 4 planes can get damaged at once meaning those planes are now "unusable" and lost. 

 

Only the plane kill shouldn't then be credited to the ship injuring the plane. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Repair time could be equal to plane regeneration.

So new plane = 100%

If a plane has lost 50% of its health, it needs half the time of a new plane to be replenished.

That would make sense imo.

 

3 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

But a useless proposal because since only the same plane is ever hit by damage only one plane will ever have to be repaired. 

 

Indeed. We can conclude that the way it all works is sort of "not making sense at all". 

Besides that, IMO the biggest problem is that a CV spots for the whole team. 

If they'd fix that it would go a long way - make whatever the CV spots only visible for those ~8km around.

And the rest gets minimap. But maybe that is what WG is "testing" with that cyclone in CB. 

 

Best fixes are always "the natural way". Sure ships would be informed if planes would spot a ship. 

They'd receive data where it was (minimap). But they'd not be able to shoot it from the other side of the map. 

 

Same with AA damage. Make players (with DEF AA?) able to pick one side of the attack squad, where AA concentrates.

Then when they manage to shoot down one of the attack planes, that should be an opening. 

Then they can finally "just dodge", as they know where there will be a likely gap in torps/bombs/rockets. 

 

Just now, DFens_666 said:

 

Isnt that only true if you would only attack once per squad always?

I mean, you go in first drop, first plane gets damage. If that part of squad leaves, next plane gets damaged. ofc always depends if that damaged plane gets shot down or not and if yes, if a 2nd plane also gets damaged.

Or if part of a squad takes a flak hit and gets recalled (assuming they all dont die afterwards) but i think theoretically might happen. Not sure tho if or how often that would happen. Cant really tell about noob-CV players here, they do all kinds of stupid crap

AA starts chipping away at the LAST plane... 

So the actual working is this, and we can see it in FDR perfectly:

A few planes attack, meanwhile the last planes take damage. 

So, provided the CV-player doesn't fly into FLAK clouds, the first two/three/four will live.

Actually if he has plenty planes flying overhead (not tattacking) they function like a damage sponge. 

Yes I know, it is pretty sick... 

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

How the hell did a group of people come up with a game model of sea aviation so... so... unhinged? 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

30 minutes ago, Europizza said:

How the hell did a group of people come up with a game model of sea aviation so... so... unhinged? 

Your daily "How did this/could they" posts are what keep me coming back in here. 

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Isnt that only true if you would only attack once per squad always?

I mean, you go in first drop, first plane gets damage. If that part of squad leaves, next plane gets damaged. ofc always depends if that damaged plane gets shot down or not and if yes, if a 2nd plane also gets damaged.

Or if part of a squad takes a flak hit and gets recalled (assuming they all dont die afterwards) but i think theoretically might happen. Not sure tho if or how often that would happen. Cant really tell about noob-CV players here, they do all kinds of stupid crap

only the last plane in the group gets damaged

only exception is flak

more attacks will still only damage the last plane, not any of the planes in the current attack 

on one side the current mechanic is depressing on the other, atleast you actually get to kill some planes which you otherwise wouldnt 

[Sunleader]

Problem is and has been the same for nearly 2 Years Now.

 

CVs have Unlimited Range, Can Spot their own Targets on Unlimited Range and are Guaranteed to get Damage through regardless of Defenses.

These 3 Abilities make CVs Broken beyond Comparisson.

Because it means that CVs can Attack whatever Target they Fancy without ever being in its Range themselves. They can Completely Negate Stealth Actions and Deny Enemies from Disengaging without any way for the Enemy Target to fight back.

 

The Answer therefore has been the same for the last 2 Years as well.

If you want to Fix CVs you need to Remove/Limit 1 of these 3 Abilities so this Combination no longer Breaks the Game apart.

 

Option 1.

Remove the Unlimited Range.

Be it by Time Limit using a Fuel Gauge or be it a Simple Oprational Range Limit around the CV. The Method doesnt really matter.

If the CV can only Strike in a Limited Range possibly different for each Squadron. Then a CVs Influence as well as his Ability to Fight without being in any Danger himself gets heavily Impeded even tough his Combat Power is barely Reduced at all.

 

Option 2.

Remove the Guaranteed Damage.

Be it by Increasing RNG on Flak so it cant be Predicted. Or by Introducing Accuracy and Panic Penalties on Drops if the AA in the Area Exceeds a Certain Threshold. Again. Method doesnt matter.

But if a CV is no longer Capable of Guaranteeing Damage regardless of Situation. Then his Power is Mitigated quite alot. Because assuming the Correct Actions Enemies can Mitigate or even Deny Damage on them to the CV thus Forcing the CV to instead Attack Targets that cannot take such Actions as they are in Combat with their remaining Team.

This of course Greatly Reduces CVs Combat Power instead making them more Focused on Spotting, Opportunity Damage and Cap Resets etc.

Which of course would need to be Compensated for by better Abilities on Spotting etc. And especially more Reward Gain by Spotting and Special Actions and no real Reward for Damage.

 

Option 3.

Remove the Unlimited Spotting.

This is the most Simple Way. Because without being able to Spot for themselves. Planes are Reliant on Team Spotting. Their Combat Power once more is not changed at all.

Method doesnt matter here either. It can be done by only giving Minimap Data on Plane Spotting or also by other methods like only spotting Ships if they leave their AA on etc.

But by removing their ability to Deny Stealth to enemy DDs and their ability to Deny Disengagement etc. It heavily reduces their Influence on the Match putting them more in line as normal Damage Dealers.

 

 

 

Beyond these 3 Options nothing will Fix this.

Especially Tweaking AA and Plane Health will not Fix this.

Because with the current Automatic AA Defenses you always end up with Damage either being Guaranteed or Impossible. Meaning you always end up with CVs either becoming useless or remain Broken and Overpowered.

 

[Puffin_]

The last patch made playing CV (Enterprise) much more boring 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

34 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

Your daily "How did this/could they" posts are what keep me coming back in here. 

Happy to oblige <3

[Aethervoxx]

52 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Problem is and has been the same for nearly 2 Years Now

Yes, exactly, the farce CV rework. I appreciate your comments, Sunleader, even if it is a wall of text.

The much easier repair to current CV play would be to junk these farce CVs & immediately return the game to Jan 2019 CV play along with the related effective AA parameters.

[NSH110303]

Is this where after a year you still can complain about the cv rework...

Beacuse damn i loved the old cv gameplay the only problems were too long reload time on planes and in tier 7-10 the aa were to OP. and miss all the a the carriers they removed too..

 

And if the forum had to have a break on cv discusions beacuse there where too many that might have been a hint to them, that the cv rework was a mistake. Don't get me wrong its fun the way you play but its dosen't feel like you use stragety and skills anymore but more like who can do more damage with cv, enemy team or allies