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Afghanicus

Team killers and how WG deals with them

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Not a new discussion for sure but when you encounter more and more of these idiots and see how WG does nothing about it... it grinds the gears, doesn't it?

 

Just had a battle where I had a DD shooting team mates as soon as the battle commenced. Once the torps were ready, he dropped all of them to the nearest BB and obviously suicided in the process, while also damaging our BB.

 

So... what can we do about morons like those? If you report them in-game, nothing will happen. If you open a support ticket about it (providing clear proof in form of a replay etc... the support tell you that WG's "system" will take care of them which basically means "we don't give a F about that"). He will just be pink and after 2 battles of not killing anyone, he can continue messing up his team completely.

 

Also, I do not think bringing up his name would be any 'shaming'. I never shame anyone for playing poorly or anything along those lines. But when you have a moron throwing a game at the very beginning then I don't think such players belong here and should be banned for good.

 

Is it really so difficult for the support to deal with such cases? You open a ticket, provide a replay where you clearly see how he intentionally shoots team players and then gets himself killed in the process (thanks to the team-kill rule) and he faces the consequences right away.

 

If he is careful enough, the system will never punish him severely enough for him not to be able to throw every game he joins.

 

So... does WG plans to improve players'  experience or they will continue with the BS "the system will deal with those players"?

 

@Crysantos @MrConway @Sehales @Tanatoy @YabbaCoe @WG_Lumberjack

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I think Jingles mentioned in one of his WOWS videos before that he was told that WG does deal with teamkillers. Its just that they don't announce what they do to them due to privacy laws if I remember correctly. Whether or not its actually true i dunno.

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3 minutes ago, pra3y said:

I think Jingles mentioned in one of his WOWS videos before that he was told that WG does deal with teamkillers. Its just that they don't announce what they do to them due to privacy laws if I remember correctly. Whether or not its actually true i dunno.

Well, that's one of the question I made.

 

HOW WG deals with them? Because it appears they couldn't care less about those.

 

erere.jpg

 

This is a common template you receive when you report a very obvious and severe violation such as team-killing and making an unfair advantage for the enemy team.

 

Obviously, this is a template which refers to any report you make on a players even though it's completely irrelevant to the situation. But that's just WG Customer Support being useless, as always.

 

The key sentence is "It's not necessary to report suspicious behavior to our support" which basically means "don't bother us with this $hit, we don't give a F"

 

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3 minutes ago, Peffers said:

Remember the game is like the Hotel California.

As in... those morons can't get out and WG doesn't want to kick them in so they have to make other players' experience as miserable as they are?

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3 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

As in... those morons can't get out and WG doesn't want to kick them in so they have to make other players' experience as miserable as they are?

give the winner a prize.   :cap_like:

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he was probably in a hateful mood against his teamates and decided to act upon it in the next team. He was slammed hard immediately I'm certain.

i have been in similar mood often in the past but I haven't gone ahead and attacked my next team. I guess not all are made similarly. Regretable.

I must note here that I rarely play randoms anymore, less than once every two weeks. I found myself being healthier because of it and in a far better mood. Lots of games out there that help your mental health, this ain't one of them. It needs a very thic skin to go through a battle sometimes.

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1 hour ago, pra3y said:

I think Jingles mentioned in one of his WOWS videos before that he was told that WG does deal with teamkillers. Its just that they don't announce what they do to them due to privacy laws if I remember correctly. Whether or not its actually true i dunno.

Privacy laws? :Smile_veryhappy:

51 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

Well, that's one of the question I made.

 

HOW WG deals with them? Because it appears they couldn't care less about those.

 

erere.jpg

 

This is a common template you receive when you report a very obvious and severe violation such as team-killing and making an unfair advantage for the enemy team.

 

Obviously, this is a template which refers to any report you make on a players even though it's completely irrelevant to the situation. But that's just WG Customer Support being useless, as always.

 

The key sentence is "It's not necessary to report suspicious behavior to our support" which basically means "don't bother us with this $hit, we don't give a F"

 

This is pretty much the same message i got when reporting a guy using bot software to farm credits. 'No need to report this, our amazing auto system will handle it...', and yes my reaction was exactly the same as yours, they dont give a :etc_swear:

 

They blank refuse to have a human review the account even after 2 reports of the same guy in a week with screenshots, replay and page of his almost impossible stats of 5k games played in just over 40 days. They said they have not manually reviewed cases for over 2 years...

 

report1.thumb.jpg.8e2da756df0d2ec6069676d9601e8eda.jpg

report2.thumb.jpg.bc491dbcc62c78dc0d589ea9fe50b22d.jpg

 

Seems to be a standard GFY no matter what the issue is.

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45 minutes ago, Peffers said:

Remember the game is like the Hotel California.

 

Smell of áss in the air? Right, we can agree on that.

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3 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

Privacy laws? :Smile_veryhappy:

Yes ! Indeed ! They maybe not very valid in Russia itself, but within Range of the EU. WG has to respect them (and be sure, they do) at least on the EU server. Maybe it will be handled otherwise on other servers.

3 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

This is pretty much the same message i got when reporting a guy using bot software to farm credits. 'No need to report this, our amazing auto system will handle it...', and yes my reaction was exactly the same as yours. :etc_swear:

Of course. They have maybe one or two persons at maximum to deal with such incidents. So they have a standard form to keep workload at a minimum. You get feedback that they know about the incidence and that is all You can and need to get. You would for sure like to hear he has been sentenced to whatever they have in mind for such quys. I can understand that.

 

On the other hand: You have a chance to investigate on your own: You have the ingame-name of that person. Maybe You can observe something when You look into his statistics. I have seen a guy being reported for intentional team-killing recently, and he had not played a single game since ... maybe a coincidence

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4 minutes ago, havaduck said:

 

Smell of áss in the air? Right, we can agree on that.

áss or arse?

 

One's a donkey and in the swearing filter : the other is what some speak out of and NOT in the swearing filter.  Is it just me that finds that rather odd?

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3 minutes ago, DirtyHeddy said:

Yes ! Indeed ! They maybe not very valid in Russia itself, but within Range of the EU. WG has to respect them (and be sure, they do) at least on the EU server. Maybe it will be handled otherwise on other servers.

Of course. They have maybe one or two persons at maximum to deal with such incidents. So they have a standard form to keep workload at a minimum. You get feedback that they know about the incidence and that is all You can and need to get. You would for sure like to hear he has been sentenced to whatever they have in mind for such quys. I can understand that.

 

On the other hand: You have a chance to investigate on your own: You have the ingame-name of that person. Maybe You can observe something when You look into his statistics. I have seen a guy being reported for intentional team-killing recently, and he had not played a single game since ... maybe a coincidence

Sorry but the thing about privacy laws is complete nonsense, we are talking about an in-game handle not names and addresses (personal or identifiable data), and it doesnt fit under GDPR laws. The reason they dont allow it is because they dont like it. Simple as that.

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3 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

Sorry but the thing about privacy laws is complete nonsense, we are talking about an in-game handle not names and addresses (personal or identifiable data), and it doesnt fit under GDPR laws. The reason they dont allow it is because they dont like it. Simple as that.

As someone who has to mindful of GDPR on a daily basis, this is the correct answer.

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1 minute ago, JohnMac79 said:

The reason they dont allow it is because they dont like it. Simple as that.

There was indeed something like "Naming and Shaming is prohibited" included in the rules ... so WG will comply with it as they have placed these rules.

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9 minutes ago, DirtyHeddy said:

 

There was indeed something like "Naming and Shaming is prohibited" included in the rules ... so WG will comply with it as they have placed these rules.

Which is what i said... but it is not what you first suggested.

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55 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

Well, that's one of the question I made.

 

HOW WG deals with them? Because it appears they couldn't care less about those.

 

erere.jpg

 

This is a common template you receive when you report a very obvious and severe violation such as team-killing and making an unfair advantage for the enemy team.

 

Obviously, this is a template which refers to any report you make on a players even though it's completely irrelevant to the situation. But that's just WG Customer Support being useless, as always.

 

The key sentence is "It's not necessary to report suspicious behavior to our support" which basically means "don't bother us with this $hit, we don't give a F"

 

 

17 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

This is pretty much the same message i got when reporting a guy using bot software to farm credits. 'No need to report this, our amazing auto system will handle it...', and yes my reaction was exactly the same as yours, they dont give a :etc_swear:

 

They blank refuse to have a human review the account even after 2 reports of the same guy in a week with screenshots, replay and page of his almost impossible stats of 5k games played in just over 40 days. They said they have not manually reviewed cases for over 2 years...

 

report1.thumb.jpg.8e2da756df0d2ec6069676d9601e8eda.jpg

report2.thumb.jpg.bc491dbcc62c78dc0d589ea9fe50b22d.jpg

 

Seems to be a standard GFY no matter what the issue is.

At the end of the day, how would you guys as a player know whether another player is actually cheating or not? If WG receives hundreds and thousands of reports daily of people using cheats, but say 85% of them are actually just disgruntled players making complaints to try and get the guy they are complaining against banned, then how many people do WG have to hire to monitor all this reports and do all the cross checks? Its not really an efficient way of doing things or using resources IMO.

 

I can understand your point of view, but you also have to look at it on a macro level as well and not just from your own personal level. You guys might have kind intentions in doing what you are doing but the fact of the matter is is that an automated system works better on a macro level, with some human supervision here and there to rectify any errors in the automated system. 

 

The 2nd part is even if they take action against a person I don't really think they need to inform you or all of us what they did, especially if privacy law does apply. For all you know the person could have been sanctioned with a 1 or 2 day account ban etc kind of thing. No point in you guessing whether or not WG has taken any action as well. I mean the fact that we have a thread on people getting banned for mods in the gameplay sub-forum should be an indication to you that the system is working. Whether or not correctly is another question from this topic :Smile_veryhappy:

26 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

Privacy laws? :Smile_veryhappy:

 

I don't know if you live in the EU but yeah privacy law is actually pretty strict. I recall a case in law school where the owners of a house had to remove a security camera on their property because it was not only recording the entrance of their house but the public area outside of their house entrance i.e pavement, public road, therefore breaching the privacy of the people who pass by their house. Can't remember whether it was under EU law or ECHR. Lol. In fact, only in Europe do people have the right to be "forgotten" from google if they so wish too, which is not something you can do in other areas in the world. 

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Team killing usually goes on at low Tier level most, when a player can create a new account and jump on a low tier ship right away without doing any grinding of ships to have his lolz.

 

Used to go on a lot in WOT at low tier level, but once you get out the low tier levels it tend to not happen because they've spent time grinding ships to a higher tier level. Avoiding the lower tier levels is the best way to avoid team killers.

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24 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

Sorry but the thing about privacy laws is complete nonsense, we are talking about an in-game handle not names and addresses (personal or identifiable data), and it doesnt fit under GDPR laws. The reason they dont allow it is because they dont like it. Simple as that.

FYI, last week in Australia, google lost a case where they now have to disclose the particulars (address, actual name, whatever information that can identify the person etc;) of one of their account users who left a "defamatory" statement on the review page of a dental clinic. So do not assume that privacy law works in the same way you think it does :Smile_veryhappy:

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14 minutes ago, pra3y said:

 

At the end of the day, how would you guys as a player know whether another player is actually cheating or not? If WG receives hundreds and thousands of reports daily of people using cheats, but say 85% of them are actually just disgruntled players making complaints to try and get the guy they are complaining against banned, then how many people do WG have to hire to monitor all this reports and do all the cross checks? Its not really an efficient way of doing things or using resources IMO.

 

I can understand your point of view, but you also have to look at it on a macro level as well and not just from your own personal level. You guys might have kind intentions in doing what you are doing but the fact of the matter is is that an automated system works better on a macro level, with some human supervision here and there to rectify any errors in the automated system. 

 

The 2nd part is even if they take action against a person I don't really think they need to inform you or all of us what they did, especially if privacy law does apply. For all you know the person could have been sanctioned with a 1 or 2 day account ban etc kind of thing. No point in you guessing whether or not WG has taken any action as well. I mean the fact that we have a thread on people getting banned for mods in the gameplay sub-forum should be an indication to you that the system is working. Whether or not correctly is another question from this topic :Smile_veryhappy:

I don't know if you live in the EU but yeah privacy law is actually pretty strict. I recall a case in law school where the owners of a house had to remove a security camera on their property because it was not only recording the entrance of their house but the public area outside of their house entrance i.e pavement, public road, therefore breaching the privacy of the people who pass by their house. Can't remember whether it was under EU law or ECHR. Lol. In fact, only in Europe do people have the right to be "forgotten" from google if they so wish too, which is not something you can do in other areas in the world. 

How do WG know if someone is cheating if they refuse to look for themselves and rely on rubbish auto systems?

 

The specific case i am talking about was a guy that only made his account on 19th December 2019 and had 4500 battles already. Some days he played over 300 random battles per day, and he sailed like a bot and had terrible win rate and damage output even in T9 ships. The amount of battles for a 41 day old account was practically impossible. He played an average of 105 random battles per day, every single day. As far as human supervision, WG themselves say this hasnt been a thing since 2017! They dont look at this stuff at all.

 

Their responses just sound like BS to me.

 

Lastly, this thing about EU privacy laws is nonsense. It doesnt fit under any EU law to disclose someones in-game name. I dont know which case you are referring to, but that doesnt breach ANY privacy laws whatsoever to record the street outside your home (might come under some silly countrys domestic law but im not aware of any that are so strict). I have 4 cameras front and 2 cameras at the back of my home and the police have requested footage for investigations from them! As a very general rule, there is no right to privacy in public as far as faces go, this is why they can get away with filming you on CCTV everywhere you go! But we are not talking about faces. We are talking about anonymous in game handles on a video game...

 

The rule is so ridiculous here that if you want to share a screenshot showing you breaking y our personal record damage for example, you have to airbrush every other player name out of the screenshot! Even when you are not mentioning them at all! It has taken rididculous to a whole new level, not only can  you not name and shame you cant even show a playername without mentioning them...

 

Im not sure people have a right to be forgotten from google per se, that seems like more of a policy of google rather than a law, but im open to being corrected.

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GDPR is a pain for most sites now, I don't think you're even supposed to keep stored the IP of a user any more under it.

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8 minutes ago, pra3y said:

FYI, last week in Australia, google lost a case where they now have to disclose the particulars (address, actual name, whatever information that can identify the person etc;) of one of their account users who left a "defamatory" statement on the review page of a dental clinic. So do not assume that privacy law works in the same way you think it does :Smile_veryhappy:

Which could of been for a legal case, and would be a valid reason to request that stuff.

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3 hours ago, Palubarac said:

The key sentence is "It's not necessary to report suspicious behavior to our support" which basically means "don't bother us with this $hit, we don't give a F"

 

That looks like you reported him for cheating - not for teamkilling. Ive reported people, when they did something against the rules (not playing against clanmembers, deliberately avoiding to play), and to me it looks like they did something. Basicly they always said, they will punish them if its correct, but they cant disclose what kinda punishment they receive.

 

2 hours ago, JohnMac79 said:

This is pretty much the same message i got when reporting a guy using bot software to farm credits. 'No need to report this, our amazing auto system will handle it...', and yes my reaction was exactly the same as yours, they dont give a :etc_swear:

 

Write a PM to MrConway, he will deal with that. But you should be sure about it. Not long ago, i messaged him about a guy having like 2k battles in 3 weeks, thats not humanly possible.

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3 hours ago, MRGTB said:

Team killing usually goes on at low Tier level most, when a player can create a new account and jump on a low tier ship right away without doing any grinding of ships to have his lolz.

 

Used to go on a lot in WOT at low tier level, but once you get out the low tier levels it tend to not happen because they've spent time grinding ships to a higher tier level. Avoiding the lower tier levels is the best way to avoid team killers.

I'd disagree.

 

From my experience, team kills happen how matter the tier. If the player reached T10, he will most likely be team killing at T10. Again, from my experience they are not team killing out of ignorance, color-blindness or mental disorder but because they are fed up with the game and they are basically asking for a ban and in the meantime trying to make other players' gameplay as miserable as they feel their gameplay was.

 

For the record, this was a T8-T10 game.

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4 hours ago, DirtyHeddy said:

On the other hand: You have a chance to investigate on your own: You have the ingame-name of that person. Maybe You can observe something when You look into his statistics. I have seen a guy being reported for intentional team-killing recently, and he had not played a single game since ... maybe a coincidence

Most of these morons know what they are doing and you cannot see their stats. At least I don't know how to look that up when they disable it.

 

User ******** has marked his account as private
 

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1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

That looks like you reported him for cheating - not for teamkilling. Ive reported people, when they did something against the rules (not playing against clanmembers, deliberately avoiding to play), and to me it looks like they did something. Basicly they always said, they will punish them if its correct, but they cant disclose what kinda punishment they receive.

 

Write a PM to MrConway, he will deal with that. But you should be sure about it. Not long ago, i messaged him about a guy having like 2k battles in 3 weeks, thats not humanly possible.

No matter how you report it, they use pretty much the same templates. This happens no matter what. Customer support don't even read the reports most of the time. They just glance at it, find the "most relevant" template and drop it there as a response, while marking the ticket as 'solved' while you wonder who is the monkey - the guy that replied something that has nothing to do with your report/question or you that thought that they will read it and reply something useful.

 

P.S. @MrConway is actively ignoring me. Now sure how professional that is but it seems he doesn't like constructive comments and thinks ignoring a player raising valid issues and asking legitimate questions will get him tier eventually. He knows how many times he has been tagged in the last month or so but he NEVER replied. Good for him and the WG team.

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