Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
TruePhoenix

Des Moines - Open water?

37 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[-TCP-]
Players
216 posts

Potato reporting in.

 

Background:

 

I had previously owned the DM, about 6-8 months ago. I was / is awful in it, trying to hide and spam but getting picked off quite easily. I also had Wooster, same problem, hated them both and sold them. I do enjoy the Buffalo and have kept one in the dock, with occasional use.

 

Anyway, the latest directives and more importantly, the last leg to Halsey in campaigns have become priority. US T10 required. Umm.

 

So I re-bought DM. 19pt captain this time and a shedload of experience since the last time. However I am not a rock hugging type of player, I can't stand it, its everything I hate in this game. So DM as an open water HC? I think it can be done within certain parameters. 

 

DM is squishy, so keep the minimap in one eye and distance in the other. Switching ammo isn't an issue, 4 seconds for that. Biggest issue is other players who expect me to park at some rock and radar, whilst taking sniping opportunities. Not for this potato, I prefer open water and using the rudder shift to avoid incoming. With angling the DM is surprisingly resilient when receiving incoming fire.

 

Does anyone else use DM in open water? If so, any tips / hacks? Maybe a different way to play?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LAFIE]
Beta Tester
4,853 posts
5,332 battles
2 minutes ago, TruePhoenix said:

Does anyone else use DM in open water? If so, any tips / hacks? Maybe a different way to play?

 

Don't have a DM, but I do have the next best thing, the Salem.

 

My advice, for what it's worth, is to make extensive use of WASD if you're going to do that, unless the players shooting at you can't aim worth *edited*.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TCP-]
Players
216 posts

I like Salem, it seems to have the ability to absorb large amounts of damage and when angled properly it is almost impossible to BB harm it. I'm coal saving for it right now. 

 

However mon brave, the DM open water? If not why not? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,971 posts
12,852 battles
6 minutes ago, TruePhoenix said:

Does anyone else use DM in open water? If so, any tips / hacks? Maybe a different way to play?

 

 

I too hate the whole island hugging thing so have played DM as an open water boat. It is "possible" but not really all that effective. I did so badly trying it that I have taken to using it in the traditional way (on the few occasions I play it).

 

As for tips, well obviously Priority Target is a must and alongside that you need to keep your head on a swivel. It's not enough to know how many are targeting you you need to know WHO is targeting you at all times so that you know when and where the next shots are coming from and be prepared to dodge accordingly.

 

Looking at your ship list I have to ask, how close to finishing the Seattle grind are you? The reason I ask is that the Worcester is a far better open water cruiser than the DM, in my opinion, so maybe that could be the way to go. If not for the directives then definitely for the Halsey campaign.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAFT]
Players
9,881 posts
9,003 battles
3 minutes ago, TruePhoenix said:

However mon brave, the DM open water? If not why not? 

 

Why not pick a ship more suited for that?

Zao, Hindenburg, Henri, Venezia?

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LAFIE]
Beta Tester
4,853 posts
5,332 battles
1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Why not pick a ship more suited for that?

Zao, Hindenburg, Henri, Venezia?

Henri definetly is not as suited as she was before after the acceleration/deceleration nerf.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TCP-]
Players
216 posts

Got Hindy - my first T10 and I loved it. You played it recently? Its a piñata. Angled or not, even spamming from range doesn't matter because some 24k ranged BB who will get you with magic dispersion effect. I do it from my Kremlin, 19/20k range and cit'ing Hindy's. Go close? Don't.

 

Had Zao and working back to it via research. Stealth game only. If it shows up as a target, its dead.

 

Got Brindisi, wish I hadn't. Long term project that I'll go back to one day.

 

Don't do French.

 

My favourite spammers from range are the Moskva (heresy) and the DM Donskei.

 

I don't want to spam from long range, I want to get into the 15k and less zone to do real dmg. Can DM do this? Anyone doing it? With any CC? Not hiding in smoke, not hiding behind rocks.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Modder
4,873 posts
22,141 battles

DM can fire from open water from time to time, or when is no other possibility. However Your surival is very RNG dependent, becouse she sail like a brick,  made of citdel. Island should be always Your friend, but it's no an easy play too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LEEUW]
Players
2,354 posts
10,110 battles
29 minutes ago, TruePhoenix said:

Does anyone else use DM in open water? If so, any tips / hacks? Maybe a different way to play?

No. This is litteraly where the DM shines. You use islands but not to hug them. You use islands to block line of sight. You use islands to make sure you can shoot at them but they can't hit you back. You use islands to surprise enemies. 

 

In some situations you can openwater gunboat and in some situations its even the best choice, but the bread and butter of desmoines-play is knowing how to use terrain. If you can master the usage of terrain to your advantage then you can master the desmoines. Otherwise you're just a thirteen in a dozen HE-spammer. 

 

Tip: Get legendary mod asap. Playing around islands with that thing equipped is so much fun. 

 

Also: What don't you like about "island hugging"? Because just like BB positioning or DD positioning it requires thinking ahead and playing smart. What is not to like about that? 

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TCP-]
Players
216 posts
18 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

I too hate the whole island hugging thing so have played DM as an open water boat. It is "possible" but not really all that effective. I did so badly trying it that I have taken to using it in the traditional way (on the few occasions I play it).

 

As for tips, well obviously Priority Target is a must and alongside that you need to keep your head on a swivel. It's not enough to know how many are targeting you you need to know WHO is targeting you at all times so that you know when and where the next shots are coming from and be prepared to dodge accordingly.

 

Looking at your ship list I have to ask, how close to finishing the Seattle grind are you? The reason I ask is that the Worcester is a far better open water cruiser than the DM, in my opinion, so maybe that could be the way to go. If not for the directives then definitely for the Halsey campaign.

I have had the Wooster for a while too. I really didn't like it and sold it.  I nearly bought it again today. Maybe I should give it another go but open water with that level of squishy? It's why I rebought the DM.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LEEUW]
Players
2,354 posts
10,110 battles

@TruePhoenix

Also if you want to become good at desmoines gameplay I suggest to take a look at TheSailingRobin's YouTube channel and look for desmoines videos. Currently he is the #1 DM player on EU. 

 

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TCP-]
Players
216 posts
2 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

No. This is litteraly where the DM shines. You use islands but not to hug them. You use islands to block line of sight. You use islands to make sure you can shoot at them but they can't hit you back. You use islands to surprise enemies. 

 

In some situations you can openwater gunboat and in some situations its even the best choice, but the bread and butter of desmoines-play is knowing how to use terrain. If you can master the usage of terrain to your advantage then you can master the desmoines. Otherwise you're just a thirteen in a dozen HE-spammer. 

 

Tip: Get legendary mod asap. Playing around islands with that thing equipped is so much fun. 

 

Also: What don't you like about "island hugging"? Because just like BB positioning or DD positioning it requires thinking ahead and playing smart. What is not to like about that? 

I use islands to block line of sight, probably we all do that. I hate the pickaboo, nose out, 2 salvoes and reverse type play. Its so boring. I hear what you say though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAFT]
Players
9,881 posts
9,003 battles
4 minutes ago, TruePhoenix said:

Got Hindy - my first T10 and I loved it. You played it recently? Its a piñata. Angled or not, even spamming from range doesn't matter because some 24k ranged BB who will get you with magic dispersion effect. I do it from my Kremlin, 19/20k range and cit'ing Hindy's. Go close? Don't. 

 

Had Zao and working back to it via research. Stealth game only. If it shows up as a target, its dead.

 

Got Brindisi, wish I hadn't. Long term project that I'll go back to one day.

 

Don't do French.

 

My favourite spammers from range are the Moskva (heresy) and the DM Donskei.

 

I don't want to spam from long range, I want to get into the 15k and less zone to do real dmg. Can DM do this? Anyone doing it? With any CC? Not hiding in smoke, not hiding behind rocks.....

 

The further you are back, the more is the turtleback working against you with Hindenburg. Sure you cant go in close at the start, everything will rip you apart. Stay back, shoot HE. You should be able to dodge BB shots from that range. They wont citadel you, if you are properly angled. Yes, they still can overmatch you, and the amount of BBs that can do it increased over time. If the dispersion is so good, then dodging makes even more sense. :cap_yes:

 

A properly played Zao is a tremendous pain the [edited]. If you are spotted and turn, then you pretty much die. But if you are in kiting position, its not easy to hurt a Zao. Especially with that concealment, you can just go dark if crap hits the fan.

 

Venezia is very strong imo. The ones before that are not as good from what ive seen. But 15 SAP shells hurt A LOT, even BBs.

 

I dont think you can do open water DM at <15km. If anything, you need atleast the range mod to bump it up to 18km. Sooner or later, something will hit you big time. Ive devastated so many DMs who were caught in open water, its one of the easiest ships to multicit imo.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HAZEL]
Players
55 posts
7,004 battles

I think hugging islands is the way to play DM or Salem. I always sink very fast eating citadels all day whenever i play Salem like a japanese cruiser trying to kite.

 

On <15km~ distance going bow on playing with the throttle going forward and backward has gotten me some succesfull engagements but again sooner or later you are gonna get focussed on (which is the main problem) and eat citadels.

 

I always play Salem with the feeling that someone is fanatically spamming F3 on me.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,971 posts
12,852 battles
9 minutes ago, TruePhoenix said:

I have had the Wooster for a while too. I really didn't like it and sold it.  I nearly bought it again today. Maybe I should give it another go but open water with that level of squishy? It's why I rebought the DM.   

 

I know, it seems counter intuitive but it's true. The trick, as I said before, is to identify where the next shot will be coming from and to turn your ship in advance - watch the shells coming in and either steer to avoid them or find a nice gap in the dispersion to slot your arse into. Sure there will always be that occasional magic homing shell that makes a bee-line for your citadel regardless but the majority of shots are easily dodgable. As the bishop said to the choirboy, try it - you might like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TCP-]
Players
216 posts
19 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

@TruePhoenix

Also if you want to become good at desmoines gameplay I suggest to take a look at TheSailingRobin's YouTube channel and look for desmoines videos. Currently he is the #1 DM player on EU. 

 

Brilliant play. I have become a disciple. Also Interstellar sound track, my favourite movie.

 

That's what I am looking for. Thank you GB. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TCP-]
Players
216 posts
7 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

I know, it seems counter intuitive but it's true. The trick, as I said before, is to identify where the next shot will be coming from and to turn your ship in advance - watch the shells coming in and either steer to avoid them or find a nice gap in the dispersion to slot your arse into. Sure there will always be that occasional magic homing shell that makes a bee-line for your citadel regardless but the majority of shots are easily dodgable. As the bishop said to the choirboy, try it - you might like it.

God forgive me but maybe I should try Wooster again. Gentlemen, thank you for the coming sleepless night :-)

 

 

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TCP-]
Players
216 posts
22 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Venezia is very strong imo. The ones before that are not as good from what ive seen. But 15 SAP shells hurt A LOT, even BBs

Truth. I've been pummelled in BB's by Venezia, its a dangerous ship. One day. As ever thanks DFens, wise words.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TCP-]
Players
216 posts

Gents, again I thank you. Fantastic response and thought provoking insights. 

 

Maybe I'm asking too much of the DM. I need to think, that Robin guy though, superb. Even if I could get half as good.....

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,588 posts
11,389 battles

1) Take IFA as your 1pt skill instead of PT if you haven't, or you are using some other 1 pt skill. IFA is a godsend for open water gunboating in a cruiser since unlike PT which only tells you how many ppl are aiming at you, IFA tells you how many salvos have been shot at you. Coupled with some map awareness (on what ships can shoot at you) it makes it way easier for you to dodge the incoming shells.

 

2) Map awareness and flexibility. No point open water gunboating againt say 5 enemy ships. You will confirm die. If hugging island or bailing the area helps, then do it.

 

3) i usually use ruddershift mod 1 on my cruisers to improve the ruddershift further. 

 

Edit:

4) Forgot to add that while moving left or right, you should also play with your speed. It helps throw off the enemy's aim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MORIA]
Players
7,350 posts
36,697 battles
1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

Henri

It's a dead ship I saw today only one Henri and it was on my team. 12 battles on T10. One Henri. It's now in the same spot as Khaba. Sad. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TORAZ]
Beta Tester
13,929 posts
19,753 battles

If you're open water DM'ing you could also look into Yuro's meme spotterplane build:

 

 

Although that has likely become way more hazardous due to the overabundance of 30mm overmatch capable BBs.

(Also adjust the build a bit. It's obviously outdated.)

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
[JRM]
Players
6,592 posts
24,860 battles
5 hours ago, TruePhoenix said:

Got Hindy - my first T10 and I loved it. You played it recently? Its a piñata. Angled or not, even spamming from range doesn't matter because some 24k ranged BB who will get you with magic dispersion effect. I do it from my Kremlin, 19/20k range and cit'ing Hindy's. Go close? Don't.

 

Had Zao and working back to it via research. Stealth game only. If it shows up as a target, its dead.

 

Got Brindisi, wish I hadn't. Long term project that I'll go back to one day.

 

Don't do French.

 

My favourite spammers from range are the Moskva (heresy) and the DM Donskei.

 

I don't want to spam from long range, I want to get into the 15k and less zone to do real dmg. Can DM do this? Anyone doing it? With any CC? Not hiding in smoke, not hiding behind rocks.....

Hindi is fine after recent buffs more then fine actually, she is not more vulnerable to the BBs then the rest of the T10 pack, the overmatch caliber BBs added of late especially dump on all 30mm decked cruisers equally, even the Venezia with her black hole armor gets punished heavily as for Desmo in open water - she can do it yes, ofc she can BUT that really isnt what her primary role is and therefore you are ill advised to go doing that every match as it might lead to additional frustration...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[FL4-0]
[FL4-0]
Players
34 posts
7,893 battles

Just get the legendary upgrade. It's a game changer for the DM. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
[JRM]
Players
6,592 posts
24,860 battles
1 minute ago, Piruvato said:

Just get the lengedary upgrade. It's a game changer for the DM. 

Yes as in getting worse reload in exchange for acceleration that will still not save you from Kremlin or Ohio

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×