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Butterdoll

Which Gunboat to get

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A long, long time ago I made a similar topic asking for advice to which light  cruiser to get, at that time the cruiser to beat was Kuma. That topic was of immense use for me, great advices and great ships followed Kuma.

I had so much enjoyment.

So, I ask you.

Which Gunboat to get of which line.

This time the "Kuma" it's Nicholas, I just unlocked Farragut  very fun 5 turrets, with, what seems to me, beefier guns.

 

Thank you.  

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British line for cap contesting in random battle.

French line to play agressive and fast, with reload booster and close range torp for some fun in ambushing.

Harugumo for melting heavier ships from a smoke.

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Aigle or Guepard are my favourite gunboat DDs at Tier VI. You would probably find their cruiser/DD hybrid style fun. 

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Or play soviet gunboats if you would like to have an easier time hitting stuff at max range. Grozovoi for one of the best hybrids or Khaba for full-on gunboating with the occasional torpedo surprise against differently abled players.

My personal favourite at the time is the Daring. Extremely powerful guns and torpedoes, but gets caught easily due to slow speed so map-awareness is crucial at all times. Also, IFHE buff incoming which means we get 4 captain points for free.

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1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Aigle or Guepard are my favourite gunboat DDs at Tier VI. You would probably find their cruiser/DD hybrid style fun. 

I have to emphatically agree, and the Vaquelin is pretty fun at T7, so far (all of two games played, mind). Only reason I ended up not keeping the Guépard is that the Aigle is pretty darn close to the same ship, just with smoke.

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Khaba is so not worth it now. Kléber do a better job at max range harassing, and it's way better than Khaba for the torpedo surprise.

Sure, you don't have a heal, but you have more range, don't take AP pen and are more agile than a Khaba.

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Well by gunboat I presume you mean DD, now the question is is the accent on GUNBOAT or on the DD part...

 

If you look for a GUNBOAT - Kleber or Haragumo are your goal with Mogador, Kitakaze as well as Akizuki and Le Fantasque beeing quite nice keepers, also french lie is ok-ish from t6 upwars so you can keep the Vaquelin and Guepard as well for occasional low/mid tier fun...

 

If the accent is on DD side (decent guns but still strong around caps ) you look for more gun oriented hybrids such as RN T7+ and US T5+ and likely the new pan euro ones from T6-7 upwards as well so you might want to wait for a few weeks

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US DD are not gunboats but hybrids. They have good guns and good torpedoes but they don't excel at any role. They are good at everything. They can cap, they can harass, they can knife fight other destroyers, farm the big bois and at high tiers your AA is not bad so the enemy carrier usually prefer to drop other DDs instead of you.

 

The problem with US DD is that their line jewel sits at tier 9 with the fletcher. The Gearing is a bit meh, being slower than the Fletcher, bigger and having the same guns and torpedoes. In the good old days you were the terror of the caps with your frontal turrets and good smoke, but the prevalence of hydro, radar and carriers in the current meta means that the Gearing has been power crept a lot.

 

That being said, it is the most fun starting DD line since they are easy to play and you are average in every other regard but not bad at anything.

 

If you want true gunboats, go French. Fast, no smoke and powerful guns capable of citadel enemy cruisers. But they have an insanely high skill floor so better wait till you have more games.

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Define "gunboat". Long range firing jackass abusing WSAD hax and unable to contest caps? Then Minsk, Kiev and Tashkent. Latter two have actually usable torpedoes and you can stealth torp with maxed out concealment

 

Alternative would be French DD line from tier 8 onward, where they get actually good ballistics instead earlier trebuchets. If you still want trebuchet, then Aigle is good pick.

 

As for "gunboat" for actually playing for the objective... Then any DD, including hightier IJN "torpboats", as IJN guns still hit hard and "gunboat shima" can be disturbingly effective.

 

USN DD line is OG cap contester, with brits being close. Tier 8, Lightning and premium Cossack is one of the best cap contesters IMO. Bonus points for having 6/7 quick recharging smokes, very handy during Year of the Carrier... Or feeling like smoke jackass.

Daring is awesome gun hose with heals, but 6km concealment and only 35kts is :etc_swear: against Shimakazes tho

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thank you all.

 

So, to recapitulate

 

Russian - Minsk, Kiev and "Trashcan" (yeap, I'm of that time), Khaba and / or Grozovoi .

rail(ish) guns? what's their role? I think Kiev was perceived as being the lone wolf kind of ship

 

French - for a fast, aggressive gameplay. Ambushers, from t8 onwards they have better shells.

 

British -  to contest caps a bit sluggish when compared with others (I have Icarus, so it's a head start)

 

USA - Jack of all trades, good at everything but not the best in nothing in particular

 

IJN - (I have t6 torp boat, and I'm a dd away from Akizuki, one of my mile stones). To burn everything?

 

And I know this, Akizuki can brawl t6 cruisers, as a t6 cruiser, one has to deal with Akizuki as if it were a cruiser. How about this as the Gunboat definition?

 

And what about Pan Asian cruisers dds?

Aren't they supposed to have good guns?

 

 

 

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PA DDs or PA cruisers? The PA DDs are a very mixed line. Gadjah Mada is a very good gunboat but I'm not sure I prefer it to Jervis. Hseinyang is a great little ship, she's a C hull American DD (extra AA) with hard punching DWTorps. Lo Yang has her long range hydro / smoke party trick. Chung Mu is OK but feels like a downgrade - I get the feeling different rules apply to Tier IX and X DDs and I haven't got them figured out yet. Yue Yang got hit so hard with the nerf bat it's gone up into space like Wylie E Coyote standing on an ACME super trampoline and I doubt it will ever come back.

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2 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

PA DDs or PA cruisers? The PA DDs are a very mixed line. Gadjah Mada is a very good gunboat but I'm not sure I prefer it to Jervis. Hseinyang is a great little ship, she's a C hull American DD (extra AA) with hard punching DWTorps. Lo Yang has her long range hydro / smoke party trick. Chung Mu is OK but feels like a downgrade - I get the feeling different rules apply to Tier IX and X DDs and I haven't got them figured out yet. Yue Yang got hit so hard with the nerf bat it's gone up into space like Wylie E Coyote standing on an ACME super trampoline and I doubt it will ever come back.

Sorry, dah, I mean Pan Asians DDs.

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If you want to do passive play then Harugumo (IJN), if active play then Kleber (French).

 

If you are interested in capping then Gearing (US) (I am biased) or Daring (UK).

 

I love Gearing and Shima, and hate all other lines, so maybe take my opinion with grain of salt.

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On 2/25/2020 at 6:08 PM, Butterdoll said:

 

A long, long time ago I made a similar topic asking for advice to which light  cruiser to get, at that time the cruiser to beat was Kuma. That topic was of immense use for me, great advices and great ships followed Kuma.

I had so much enjoyment.

So, I ask you.

Which Gunboat to get of which line.

This time the "Kuma" it's Nicholas, I just unlocked Farragut  very fun 5 turrets, with, what seems to me, beefier guns.

 

Thank you.  

Before I would say the Russian line (my former favourite gunboat line) but since Khaba been nerfed/powercrept id say Kleber and the French line, from T6 where you get the MBRB they are really solid and Kleber is a more powerful ship then the old pre-nerfed Khaba. From T6 the French forms into the more powerful DD hunter/killers then any cruiser at that tier (as you can see in the video below).

 

Just build Kleber for range with AFT and never let those guns go silent!

 

 

 

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You are looking for a gunboat destroyer? Then you need look no further - let me recommend the HMCS Haida, the fightingest ship in the Royal Canadian Navy!

 

Her guns deal a ton of HE damage and have a great turret disposition (3x2 turrets with two superfiring turrets on the foredeck). She' reasonably fast, she has a good amount of hit points, she has great concealment (5,7 km detection radius!), and she has a wonderful combination of creeping smoke and long-lasting (albeit short ranged) hydro that gives her a huge edge in DD vs. DD dogfights. Her one and only weakness is a limited torpedo armament with only a single quad-launcher - but even this gets a bit of added utility by allowing for single shots.

 

The Haida is a great little gunboat, and one that is puzzlingly out of vogue as of late. I don't hesitate to give her my best endorsement!

:Smile_Default:

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30 minutes ago, neorvo said:

I like Gaede . :Smile_child:

I did too, but the German DD line goes all odd after that. The two premiums are good but I got to the Tier VIII and found it much less fun than any other DD at the Tier. 

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1 minute ago, invicta2012 said:

I did too, but the German DD line goes all odd after that. The two premiums are good but I got to the Tier VIII and found it much less fun than any other DD at the Tier. 

I like how the guns of Gaede and Z23 works. And hydro is handy to meet the shy one comming from the smoke ...

:fish_boom::fish_viking:

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Let's go trough all Nations that have DD's:
Japan: The Main Line from the Japanese is from the Umikaze to the Shimakaze and is heavily focused around their torpedoes with always the best Alpha Damage but fairly high detectability. Also the Guns turn very slowly but have in return a very high alpha dmg. At tier 4 to 5 you can go down the Gunboat line Minekaze to Harugumo. Keep in mind that the Akizuki is the real first gunboat and Minekaze, Hatsuharu, Shiratsuyu are torpedo boats as well. Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo have very fast firing guns with 100mm and are very deadly on short range. Their Concealment isn't that great like their speed.

USA: The USN DD's are imo. the most beginner friendliest Destroyers. They are hybrid with excellent guns on short range and a good torpedo armament. Not much to say about them really. Better guns then japanese but worse concealment but better torpedos then for example the russians or british.

USSR: The Main Gunboat Line is from the Storozhevoi to the Khaba with a split at the Minsk at T 7 to the hybrids Ognevoi, Udaloi, Grozovoi. The Main Line is allround guns and speed tanking. The guns turn slow until tier 8 but have very fast shells that are most usefull on medium to high ranges. Kiev, Tashkent, Khaba get a decision that you replace the normal smoke with a heal. Khaba has with AFT only 13.5km range which is very meh nowadays and a concealment from 9.5km since you need to go double rudder instead of concealment. A unique gimmik is that the Khaba has the most stealthy torpeodes ingame which are increadible slow but hit like a truck. Imo. the Khaba is by far the hardest DD to play in the current meta, but also the most fun and....well it's not without a reason my most played Destroyer. Insert some Hardbass and shot everything you see. Ognevoi to Grozovoi are more hybrids that are gun focused. They have useable torpedoes but depend on guns to do high dmg numbers. I was never a fan of them since i think americans do a better job or RN.

Germany: German DD's are kinda....powercrept. They get with the Gaede B Hull hydro their unique gimmik but their torpedo armament and concealment is just underwhelming like their firepower. At T10 you get the 6km german hydro with german AP which is sometimes insanely powerfull but for that (as the Cruisers) someone need to give you perfect broadside. I wouldn't recommend play them even when they are beautiful ships.

UK: The UK DD's have some more unique features. All of them have improved acceleration which can lead to insanely dodge maneuvers and they get from T6 on hydro with a 3km range which lasts very long and additional to that at T9 heal(and like all brits no wide spread but they can single launch torpedoes). Also they have 5 (6 with SI 7) charges of their smoke. This one is very very short but charges up very fast as well. The DD's in the lower tiers are just very meh if not underwhelming which changes with the Jervis at T7. You get very good concealment with 3x2 120mm guns. They are hybrids but tbh. i barely use the torpedos i really dont like them and i never really needed them its good for situation where you have a bow on BB that you can single drop them but thats really it your guns will do 95% of the work. The Lightning gets their last unique feature all turrets have 360 degrees. That means Tier 9 and 10 have: Hydro, Smoke, Heal, 360 turrets, insanely strong guns that shread everything and everyone and superior acceleration. Keep in mind you need from Tier 8 better from tier 7 IFHE and also do not have a speed boost (which you dont need anyway). May someone will come and say YoU doN't NeEd iT aT tiEr 7 aNd 8 but trust me you will see a difference.


France: This line is all about speed and guns. They get a unique speed boost which will give 20% more speed. Also from Tier 6 on you have the main battery reload booster but no smoke or heal on any of the ships, which is a no go for me especially in the current meta. It may be true that they are great...i never felt like it and always prefered the Khaba over the Kleber. Khaba has consistent DPM where the Kleber relies on her reload booster. Also the shells are noway as fast as the russian laZergunZ. They have notable good torpedoes with a high alpha and very fast speed with very good angles to drop them.

Pan-Asia: .... yes....no....there is a reason you never see them garbage allround don't play them. They are a mix of different nations but their unique DWTs are just garbage and you need to give away smoke for the radar at T8+.

Commonwealth: Haida can may be a good ship. If you have somehow a 14 point commander for the commonwealth nation. She has crap smoke (the same that Perth has), good concealment and the same guns as the jervis. But other then the Jervis she doesn't have the superior acceleration or short smoke to actually use the guns and also only one torpedo launcher. I wouldn't recommend this ship it's imo. not worth it.

Europe: The Blyskawica is my most played T7 ship for a good reason. Most people cry and cry and complain how garbage the ship is after removing stealth fire, but you dont need it to make the ship powerfull. You play it like a russian DD. Give it with your first 10 points AFT enjoy 14.4km range and get with 12 points AR. Your torpedos are mostly useless, crap dmg, awfull angles to launch them, but they have a very very fast reload. But you will use 99% of the time your guns anyway they are way more consistent.
I can't say anything to the Friesland since i don't have her.

TL;DR: I would recommend as a pure gunboat line russians over french. As Hybrids if you are not so experienced the americans and if you have some elite commander exp give the brits from T7+ a try.
 

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Shima gunboat build :cap_haloween:

 

No, not really, just memeing. Akizuki and Kitakaze are pretty good, personally I can't stand the Harugumo, it's so clumsy you could add hydro to it it'd still get torped if anywhere in the open. Friesland is pretty great if you feel like spending a million of fxp. USN tech tree dd's are more hybrids that gunboats, they're not bad at gunnery though. A tad power crept, but Gearing is still pretty ok. If you get a legendary mod it gets great stealth, it's not bad for competitive then. French can be fun as long as the God Class isn't focusing you. Daring is downright amazing, though I'd consider that a hybrid rather than a pure gunboat as well. The good thing about the line is that the tiers you'll spent most time on - 8 and 9 - both have amazing boats, so it's not much of a grind either.

 

 

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Interesting thoughts... 

 

For me the problem with the high tier KM DDs is that their gimmick (cruiser guns, big HP pool) has been superseded by all those dakka boats released since. British, French, Japanese, Pan Euro DDs will just chew through your HP while you're waiting for your big guns to reload. 

 

Not sure about taking radar over smoke on PA DDs. They don't strike me as open water gunboats and the radar range is so short it's no real help. 

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12 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

And I know this, Akizuki can brawl t6 cruisers, as a t6 cruiser, one has to deal with Akizuki as if it were a cruiser. How about this as the Gunboat definition?

 

And what about Pan Asian cruisers dds?

Aren't they supposed to have good guns?

You answered your own question there IJN gunboat line it is for you...?

 

Well they are gunboat oriented hybrids, still remains to be seen how they perform, both initially and after the first wave of nerfs/buffs after they go live

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1 hour ago, Elypse201 said:

Pan-Asia: .... yes....no....there is a reason you never see them garbage allround don't play them.

Chung Mu is good, real good! Fletcher hull, guns and great DWT. Yueyang was good too, until WG nerfed it beyond useless.

 

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

high tier KM DDs is that their gimmick (cruiser guns, big HP pool)

Z-52 HP pool wasn't/isn't that big (Z-46 is) and they (Z-46 and Z-52) don't have cruiser guns (just 128mm, Gearing is 127mm, Groz is 130mm). So it's not really a gimmick.

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