BB main had a meltdown with the game and after a

[Ronchabale]

few weeks not touchíng it I stated playing dd:s, this was a few months ago

This is where I am at the moment

I find that i can do pretty well as long as CV doesnt bother me (or when no CV:s are in it)

Then the games where CV focus starts 1 minute after the start, spotted, hit by rockets, some focus fire and goodbye

I am struggling to git good and as you can see my winrate is mostly in the green but the damage is appauling due to all the games where I got deleted without firing a shot

Yes some of these were derps from my side but the main part of them is from CV rocket planes and focus fire from CV spotting

I cant seem to get around it. Higher tiers are better in some ways but there are even less DD:s and the single dd spawning in the middle is not so hard to find

Any thoughts ? 

Or should I skip DD:S altogether and play Zao, Moskva, Smolensk , Thunderer etc. instead

 

These are the DD:s I play most.  Ihave a few more, also Kitakaze and Benham i havnt got around to playing yet

 

[MagicMooby]

As a CV player the best advice I can give you is to just accept that the game starts 1 minute later if a CV is present

 

There is no easier target than the DD that insists that he has to be the first in the cap

Players like that are literally a warmup exercise for good CV players

 

If you can survive the first squadron of the CV without being attacked (or even spotted) then your chances at actually doing something skyrocket

 

to summarize:

don't rush forward at the beginning of the match

stay back until the CV goes for someone else

most CVs will switch targets if they still haven't found the DD after a minute

[Lootboxer]

Do you play CVs? You should to know your enemy. what they can do, where they are going usually. And it's fun to touch in inappropriate way all those underage lolibotes.

Then probably you will be better in CV games (if enemy CV will let you, but most are lets say not the best).

[MagicMooby]

once you have survived the first two minutes it is important to always keep an eye out for planes

 

rocket planes and HE bombers are dangerous

torpedo and AP bombers are not and most CVs won't even try to attack you with them

Torpedo bombers are harmless because the torpedoes are easy to dodge

of course this only applies if you actually dodge them

 

the best way to avoid the CV is to not get spotted in the first place

if the CV has no idea where you are, he will have a hard time looking for you

 

keep smoke ready when possible and smoke up before the CV spots you

don't stray too far away from your teammates

this way you can dip back into friendly AA cover when the CV goes after you

individual AA is weak but massed AA is actually quite effective, especially against players that can't dodge flak

 

solo flank can be fun and all but the moment the CV realises that you are alone, he WILL try to murder you

so try to avoid excessive solo strategies

also: sneaking behind enemy lines to snipe the CV is incredibly risky and will get you killed if the CV is above average

 

that should cover the most basic general stuff

[GarrusBrutus]

DD is a dead class. As someone who enjoyed DDs a lot over the years it pains me to say this but: I just don't bother anymore. Yes, I can hold my own and not die like a potato in the first few minutes but it is just not that fun. 

 

 

So yes, play CAs/BBs/CV's. 

1 hour ago, Ronchabale said:

should I skip DDs altogether

 

[Bear__Necessities]

1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

DD is a dead class.

Sadly I agree. Used to play DD to a ratio of 3:1 over the other classes. Now I hardly touch them. Hell. I have played more BB in the last 3 months than probably the last year... which for me says a lot about the game. 

[KillStealBoss]

3 hours ago, MagicMooby said:

Torpedo bombers are harmless because the torpedoes are easy to dodge

I catch a lot of DDs with them. Not in GZ or Midway but in Lexington/Enterprise or Audacious? Sure. Even in Haku but this one is 50/50. 

[Ronchabale]

7 hours ago, DariusJacek said:

Do you play CVs? You should to know your enemy. what they can do, where they are going usually. And it's fun to touch in inappropriate way all those underage lolibotes.

Then probably you will be better in CV games (if enemy CV will let you, but most are lets say not the best).

Hmm I have a few 

Could give that a try

[HassenderZerhacker]

7 hours ago, Ronchabale said:

few weeks not touchíng it I stated playing dd:s, this was a few months ago

This is where I am at the moment

I find that i can do pretty well as long as CV doesnt bother me (or when no CV:s are in it)

Then the games where CV focus starts 1 minute after the start, spotted, hit by rockets, some focus fire and goodbye

I am struggling to git good and as you can see my winrate is mostly in the green but the damage is appauling due to all the games where I got deleted without firing a shot

Yes some of these were derps from my side but the main part of them is from CV rocket planes and focus fire from CV spotting

I cant seem to get around it. Higher tiers are better in some ways but there are even less DD:s and the single dd spawning in the middle is not so hard to find

Any thoughts ? 

Or should I skip DD:S altogether and play Zao, Moskva, Smolensk , Thunderer etc. instead

 

These are the DD:s I play most.  Ihave a few more, also Kitakaze and Benham i havnt got around to playing yet

 

I slowly get better at playing torpedoboat DD - so far what works best for me in battles with CV:

 

1 CV:

he will try to spot DD.

if there are other DD, let them go to obvious spots and get spotted, go to where the CV's planes aren't

 

2 CV:

accept you are mostly useless as a DD in the early battle.

don't go anywhere caps, spot from areas with no caps, hide behind islands or stay with ships with strong AA

wait till the battle progresses a bit and see if you can ambush some enemies using some islands as cover/camo, or till your team has molten down one flank of the enemy and go torp these CV

 

3 CV:

hide. accept you are completely useless in the early battle and maybe mid-battle too.

wait till the battle progresses a bit and see if you can ambush some enemies using some islands as cover/camo, or till your team has molten down one flank of the enemy and go torp these CV

if your team is down 3 or 4 ships and your CV suck, then my personal choice would be to charge an enemy and try to sink him with torps and go to the next battle. 3 CV are "world of CV" matchmaking, there is no point in remaining in such battles when losing.

[Saltface]

8 hours ago, Ronchabale said:

Any thoughts ? 

 

1. Early Match

 

-CV's will actually try (not fervently) to locate DDs-

Turn off your AA. <--- If I forgot to tell you...turn off your AA.

Avoid being spotted at all cost.

Don't go where the CV is going.

Don't go directly to a cap. (you can always cap later if you are alive, if you are dead the cap will flip and all your valiant and brave sacrifice is dog poop)

You can contest caps by just being there, no one stays in a cap while spotted by you and being shot at by your team mates.

You should Spot - and Torp Spam - If you find the enemy DD try to get it killed. Pick your fights, don't let the fights pick you.

The value of a DD in a team increases with the progress of time.

 

2. Mid Match

 

-Most CV's will not try to actively locate DDs-

Avoid the CV planes path. CVs are damage hunters (it's the nature of the class, they are in a damage race with the opponent CV). In other words don't be where the planes are going to fly to go strike your teammates. Don't be isolated. If the red team feels you as a thorn on their flanks they will ping the map, turn their guns and ask the CV to spot you. If you see TB or Bombers most probably the CV is not actively seeking you out. Still, avoid detection. Either smoke up (before you get spotted), no decent CV player will stay to wait for your smoke to dissipate (see note about damage race). From within smoke you may turn your AA on but I doubt the usefulness - well if CV had dropped fighters you might get some. If you get spotted try as hard as possible to relocate. Avoid being where they would expect you to be. 

Mid Match you can do damage with torps and guns (well not so much with the IJN torp boats you play till now). Guns should be used for targets of opportunity not as a damage farming exercise. If your flank is folding try to delay the red team from advancing (torp spamming). If your flank is doing well and pushing, screen for torps and spot.

The value of your DD in game has increased.

 

3. Late Match

 

-CVs will prioritize the DD depending on the threat it poses to the CV itself rather than the threat it poses to the red team- 

Now a DD is of extreme value. You can win your team the match. Set up torp runs. Deny caps. Get caps. SPOT. Help kill anything your team mates are focus firing on. Gun down anything of very low health. Now that the teams have thinned out you have more or less a free reign on the playing field. If spotted by a CV make the CV lose time trying to hit you. The more the CV hunts you the less it damages your team mates (their AA defenses have thinned down due to wear and tear). Flip the caps, take on BBs and kill them with torp runs (you can even rush them depending on the situation), harass Cruisers or spot them and have them killed and if a red DD is still in the game go find it and get it killed.

 

General Notes

- AA should be turned off during the game. Don't turn it on;

- Don't smoke up and blind your team; If you provide a smoke screen for your team mates do the spotting;

- Don't smoke up and stay in your smoke - you are a torpedo magnet;

- a DD is a support ship not a capital ship - Act like one;

- Don't die - Did I mention don't die? The value of the DD is immense if still in the game. Just being there is an asset to your team. 

 

- A DD's purpose in the game is to WIN not farm damage.

 

- If you have the opportunity to go for their CV better avoid it unless it will guarantee the game for your team. Never try to find it and kill it. Did I mention never try and find and kill a CV?

 

The above is not a primer. They are basic thoughts that I have put down, but I guess they only give a broad picture of how a DD should be played. 

Have in mind that every situation has its own course of action. Experience will give you that.

 

DDs are a hard class to play. But I love them.

 

Be well and enjoy the game.

 

[neorvo]

9 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

DD is a dead class. As someone who enjoyed DDs a lot over the years it pains me to say this but: I just don't bother anymore. Yes, I can hold my own and not die like a potato in the first few minutes but it is just not that fun. 

 

 

So yes, play CAs/BBs/CV's. 

 

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

One thing about Saltface's (very solid, seems to me, but what do I know) advice:

 

Don't turn on AA in smoke. Chances are 50-50 that I will land rockets on you in smoke (for a better CV player chances go up, no doubt).

[Hugh_Ruka]

What you are doing wrong ? You are trying to play DDs ...

 

Seriously .... if a CV is present, wait for the initial sweep and start moving towards your cap of choice after he latched on to targets to attack. Will give you some time to do your work.

If you are spotted by the CV, leave the area and look for other targets unless you have enough AA cruisers and available smoke around you.

 

If the worst comes ... take it like a man ... erm ... just dodge(tm) ...

 

In general, in a CV match the skill and awareness of the enemy CV decides your game. There's nothing you can do about it.

[Saltface]

48 minutes ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

Don't turn on AA in smoke. Chances are 50-50 that I will land rockets on you in smoke (for a better CV player chances go up, no doubt).

AA tracers don't work in smoke. They are scattered all over the smoke area and they visualize mid air. This is a recent (somewhat change) a few patches ago. 

It's not the tracers that give your position away. It is the experience of the CV player to "feel" where you are.

 

 

[Piruvato]

3 hours ago, Saltface said:

 

(Wise words)

 

So much this.

 

I wish dd players could use a bit of common sense and realize that top priority is to stay undetected, so dont rush caps at the beginning (everybody can see you capping) and drop smoke before being spotted (you have smoke for a reason and if there is a CV, they are lifesavers, literally). 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

One thing about Saltface's (very solid, seems to me, but what do I know) advice:

 

Don't turn on AA in smoke. Chances are 50-50 that I will land rockets on you in smoke (for a better CV player chances go up, no doubt).

As far as I'm aware: AA fired out of smoke is randomized and does not originate from the ship's location. So your 50/50 chance is equal, wether the ship has AA on or not.

[Lootboxer]

12 hours ago, MagicMooby said:

rocket planes and HE bombers are dangerous

torpedo and AP bombers are not and most CVs won't even try to attack you with them

Torpedo bombers are harmless because the torpedoes are easy to dodge

of course this only applies if you actually dodge them 

You'd be surprised how many Dds I've killed with torps, or just got them killed by crossdropping into my DD torps.

2 hours ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

Don't turn on AA in smoke. Chances are 50-50 that I will land rockets on you in smoke (for a better CV player chances go up, no doubt).

AA tracers in a smoke are randomised and do not come from the one location, using main guns though can get you killed.

[Keijo_Kalmakoura]

Biggest mistake that DD players do is that they are predictable, avouding usual antics of general DD player should keep CVs beating bushes.

[MagicMooby]

Vor 2 Stunden, DariusJacek sagte:

You'd be surprised how many Dds I've killed with torps, or just got them killed by crossdropping into my DD torps.

AA tracers in a smoke are randomised and do not come from the one location, using main guns though can get you killed.

Oh, I've killed my fair share of DDs with torpedo bombers as well

usually when I drop tropedoes into a smoke screen

 

but most of the time torpedo bombers will be spotted from several km away, so as long as you keep an eye they shouldn't be able to surprise you

and as long as your mobility isn't compromised you should be able to dodge them

 

torpedo bombers can be dangerous and they deal a ton of damage

but in most situations they are the second least threatening plane type to face

Rockets and HE bombers on the other hand are always dangerous

[Breezewind]

Your most played DDs are IJN torp boats, which have been out of meta for quite a while now. Perhaps you could try playing the IJN gunboat line, as Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are really good DDs. With CV in the battle you have to stay withing the AA bubble of your friendly fleet in the beginning of the round. You should wait until the CV is occupied in the other flank, before you can even think about capping (don't listen to the whining of your teams inexperienced players). You cannot go alone to the flanks, but you can torp the enemy team from the frontal direction, which may be suboptimal, but that way you can provide also vision for your team. Don't focus on the damage, before second half of the battle.

 

Taking look at your stats (thank you for being friendly and providing them), you would benefit the most if you played some CVs. As I notice, you don't have a single game played in them. That's the only way you can have a comprehensive view to the topic. I recommend trying out the IJN CV line, but remember that they're the strongest and that different nations have differences that are quite large.

 

Also playing more cruisers would help you to increase your survival, and positioning in general.

[Hugh_Ruka]

In other words, play something else ....

[Hugh_Ruka]

6 minutes ago, Breezewind said:

Your most played DDs are IJN torp boats, which have been out of meta for quite a while now. Perhaps you could try playing the IJN gunboat line, as Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are really good DDs. With CV in the battle you have to stay withing the AA bubble of your friendly fleet in the beginning of the round. You should wait until the CV is occupied in the other flank, before you can even think about capping (don't listen to the whining of your teams inexperienced players). You cannot go alone to the flanks, but you can torp the enemy team from the frontal direction, which may be suboptimal, but that way you can provide also vision for your team. Don't focus on the damage, before second half of the battle. 

 

Taking look at your stats (thank you for being friendly and providing them), you would benefit the most if you played some CVs. As I notice, you don't have a single game played in them. That's the only way you can have a comprehensive view to the topic. I recommend trying out the IJN CV line, but remember that they're the strongest and that different nations have differences that are quite large.

 

Also playing more cruisers would help you to increase your survival, and positioning in general.

The problem being the current ROFLSTOMP meta ... after 5-6 minutes you have no more influence on the game no matter what you do ... so if you wait a few minutes at the start to see how things develop, you might be too late to do anything ... so either or .... there's really not a lot of choice for DDs. Or rather there are only bad choices these days ... the best being: play some other class ...

 

I had many a game recently where I went the cautious approach and after I got the cap I aimed for and could finally move to other objectives the rest of the team was so far gone I just yoloed the nearest enemy BB ...

[Breezewind]

16 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

The problem being the current ROFLSTOMP meta ... after 5-6 minutes you have no more influence on the game no matter what you do ... so if you wait a few minutes at the start to see how things develop, you might be too late to do anything ... so either or .... there's really not a lot of choice for DDs. Or rather there are only bad choices these days ... the best being: play some other class ...

 

I had many a game recently where I went the cautious approach and after I got the cap I aimed for and could finally move to other objectives the rest of the team was so far gone I just yoloed the nearest enemy BB ...

If you get stomps, it's pretty much the same which class you play. Unless you're in the flank that pushes through, you're not doing much damage or getting EXP in that game. Playing on different hours could help somewhat, because I've noticed that teams get progressively more bad in the EU server towards the night.

[Ronchabale]

Thanks for the advice, some good points there.

Will try to play even more "apprehensivly" and also more of the gunboat type DD:s

Gonna try a few games in CV:s too

Is there any point of getting "Def fire AA" instead of "Speedboost" on the Kidd / Sims ?

 

[Breezewind]

20 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Is there any point of getting "Def fire AA" instead of "Speedboost" on the Kidd / Sims ?

 

 

I think DefAA is not mandatory in these boats, as you don't necessarily get a CV in your match and they have pretty nice AA already, especially when you typically take BFT skill in both. Engine boost can also assist you somewhat in last moment braking in order to throw off aim of CVs with unmaneuverable planes. I'd say engine boost provides more utility now, though the situation might change somewhat after changes to slingshots are introduced to the game.

 

For DD play, I recommend watching Destroyer KuroshioKai on Youtube.