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What If - S2E1

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What If? (Season 2 Episode 1)

 

Some of you might remember my What If threads from a year ago. That was Season 1. Now, more experienced in the intricacies of the Forum, I decided to provoke you once again.

Be mindful though, this second season is more well thought and it may seem trollish upon first reading but there is a bit of background to it.

And here starts Season 2 of the What If successful series from a year back (*grin)

So give it a good reading and a good thinking. After all, thinking is free. Isn't it?

 

What if once a player reaches T10 in a line, his ships T1 to T4 (incl.) get refunded at 50% and are available to them only for CoOp? T1 - T4 is available for lines one grinds or regrinds.

 

MHO is:

 

1. We avoid a certain amount of Seal Clubbing™©® that will benefit the new players and the game;

2. We will avoid the infestation of CVs (not OP™©®) and T5 will become fun again so spreadsheet will be right for once;

3. Some players might decide not to go to T10 so their precious SCM (Seal Clubbing Machines) Mod 1 MK 3 Ver.2 Rev.4 will remain available to them. Not bad we don't need everybody in T10;

4. For the same reasons as in 3 above, some players might delay their progress a tad, and progress the tiers slower. Good, we need players in mid tiers and those players will have the opportunity to learn the game better.

 

All in all I find it an idea worth of being exposed to public scrutiny.

 

Waiting for your feedback, critical remarks and opinions.

 

Regards

Saltface

 

P.S. Troll the thread and I ll troll you back 

        Should Mssrs. @MrConway and Mr. @Crysantos (I added a Mr. it was so missing...) wish to pop in and share their opinions we would be most grateful. 

 

Spoiler

download.png.c12e659968a8026f7b64cc10a5b79a42.png

 

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*Cries in Konig Albert*

 

The only sealclubbing which is problematic is Tier IV CVs, and Hosho in particular. WG should balance the darn thing properly rather than removing most of the WW1 era ships from Random gameplay. 

 

If low tier non-CV sealclubbing does offend then perhaps WG could give experienced players things to do with these fun - and valuable -  ship assets such as Events and Scenarios. Is a  mass Clemson vs Derzki death match any less enjoyable than Savage Battles? I suspect not. 

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That would increase the time in queue for a match at low tiers, especially tier 2 and 3 which are unpopulated late at night. That would also force matches with too few ships per team as a consequence.

And wargaming said several times they try to do their maximum to prevent a too long time in queue, hence even though it could be interesting in certain ways, it is not possible to apply it.

If you want to decrease the sealclubbing, I'd rather introduce new ways to make high tier appealing, either in terms of balance, new game modes or whatever, instead of punishing the low tier players.

I think you got it the wrong way.

Don't prevent people to play low tiers in pvp. Make high tier battles better for them!

Regards

 

 

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People are already in high tiers 2 much and 2 soon, they are there principally because the "cookies" are there and WG likes us there as the ships there are expensive (weather by grace of cash or elbow grease) so it continues

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It's an interesting idea, but untenable for multiple reasons. I don't play low tiers unless to level boats, but others do. And lose ships? Remember, WG are trying to make money here.

 

I will counter-offer my equally trollish suggestion here: Ships from tier 1 to 6 allow only captains with 9 or fewer points, 7 and over is open. With an option to stop a captain from gaining xp for a time.

 

How's that?

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The basic idea passes the 'Sanity' test. 

 

There is the downside of 'what is the affect on Low Tier Matchmaking'? Here only the spreadsheet can answer. 

 

I question how many people actually keep T1-T4 Silver ships in any numbers. 

 

As for making these lower tiers interesting for players engaging with the Research Bureau, why does it need to be? 

 

Finally, if a player is engaging with Research Bureau and can't therefore Seal Club in the line reset wants to Seal Club, then there are other lines being introduced all the time. These lines can be used for the neferious activities. 

 

And for the completest who has reground every line and therefore can't Seal Club in silver ships at these tiers, there is always Premium Ships to undertake mass slaughter. If I read Mr@Saltfacecorrectly then Konig Albert has nothing to worry about. This will allow Wargaming to keep getting money from Seal Clubers(tm). And for the F2P completest, alternative accounts will allow Seal Clubbing without the cost.

 

I will take @Bindolaf_Werebane to task on his T6 restricted captain by saying that the only operations now available are T6, so HANDS OFF!

Otherwise interesting idea but I think @Saltface's idea is much better. 

 

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I see your question.

But who the bleep plays tiers 1-4 anyway?

 

And why would you want to take that away?

 

I sealclub in my kamikaze and haven't played a T1-4 game in ages... so I fail to see the problem you want to solve.

 

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4 minutes ago, Hummus said:

so I fail to see the problem you want to solve.

The problem is summed up in one word... 

'Hosho'

This is slightly ahead of 'Langley' & 'Hermes'

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13 minutes ago, Hummus said:

I see your question.

But who the bleep plays tiers 1-4 anyway?

 

And why would you want to take that away?

 

I sealclub in my kamikaze and haven't played a T1-4 game in ages... so I fail to see the problem you want to solve.

 

 

There's people with thousands of battles in Hosho. Unicum stats in that, garbage in basically everything else. t4 CV sealclubbing has been a thing for quite some time now. The problem he's trying to solve is triple CV per team matches where sealclubbers chase new players away. I mean, if my first contact with wows was multiple CV's farming me, you can be pretty sure I wouldn't have made 500 battles, let alone 11k.

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2 hours ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

It's an interesting idea, but untenable for multiple reasons. I don't play low tiers unless to level boats, but others do. And lose ships? Remember, WG are trying to make money here.

 

I will counter-offer my equally trollish suggestion here: Ships from tier 1 to 6 allow only captains with 9 or fewer points, 7 and over is open. With an option to stop a captain from gaining xp for a time.

 

How's that?

But you run into a serious problem with MM, a t5 or T6 boat will face Tier 7 and 8 lots of fights. How do you solve the enormous gap in CE f.e. when the CE module exists on T8 leaving the T6 ships f.e. at a further disadvantage.

Sure I am a veteran but should that not give advantage. Nothing stops you or others from training your captains. You just have to put in same effort. 

If you for some reason should have restrictions they should focus on battle tier not ship tier, however I would not have such a thing either. Many historic ships exists at T5 and 6 and there are IMO the most fun gameplay also T7 and 8 (battletiers).

Furthemore some of the compact maps on low tiers are very fun to play likewise the ships. On a DD you have fast reload on your torps compact maps etc they are fun to play simply.

And I think it is sad that my iconic Dreadnought ship almost never are used. I may look on it a few times in harbour - ohh did I have that ship. But I never play her. 

 

I played plenty of lower tier early in my career but now only in regrinds, That problem WG solved by putting all missions at T5 or above. But even so in a Research bureau regrind even if you play the regrinds the number of games are a handful per line until you reach T5 so there hardly is a problem for that. As long as new lines are added there is no time to play lower tiers, except from playing so you get up to T4 but that is also just a few games. Yes I save FreexP for ships and stock build and such but now with 2 FreeXP T10 ships on its way I do have to hoard, have only 2,1 M and while it is enough for 1 it is not enough for 2.

 

CV Sealclubbing just put a hardcap on 2 at all times. They will simply ran out of cue (passing 5 minutes). You can even restrict them so they can not face T3 ships i.e. T3 ships can get into battle tier 4 only if there is no CVs or by fail div. with a T4 to Battletier 5, last case being subject to Cvs..

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12 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

*Cries in Konig Albert*

You are right on this one. There are many iconic ships in low tiers. 

 

6 hours ago, elblancogringo said:

If you want to decrease the sealclubbing, I'd rather introduce new ways to make high tier appealing

IMHO SC™ is not due to the fact that high tiers are not appealing. No one takes his Hosho for example to go to T4 because playing the Enterprise or the Hakuryu is not fun for them. Or take the Isokaze (lol) when he can play the Kamikaze (one tier higher) or the Gadja Mada, or Lightning, or Fletcher or Kitakaze etc etc. There are so many very nice, strong and fun ships in T5 to T10.

 

1 hour ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

Ships from tier 1 to 6 allow only captains with 9 or fewer points

I would be happy with T1 to T4 incl. to be restricted to 9 points. A friend of mine told me a story about a seasoned Wickes player that once entered a battle in T2 and first thing he chatted was "Which MF runs RPF on T2?"

 

1 hour ago, Cambera_1 said:

I question how many people actually keep T1-T4 Silver ships in any numbers. 

1 hour ago, Hummus said:

But who the bleep plays tiers 1-4 anyway?

You would be surprised.

 

I enter occasionally  Low Tiers just to play a fun game without gimmicks and camping and, you know, the High Tier stuff.

Spoiler

So you don't need to look (LOL)

image.png.896d4860a5aa330d20212494e1120e5a.png

Then I just look at signals on other ships, I notice obviously 19 pointer captains (damn you need 14 points to run RPF and Concealment at the same time) and Premium consumables. That's easy to tell. Just check the time that has lapsed or the detection range or the reload speed. Then I check profiles and I see thousands of battles.

Try running MMM and you will be surprised. So much purple. I avoid MMM when I play mid and high tiers. But, when I enter a low tier battle I do - and I just think how much self respect people have when they enter a low tier game with a ship that they have hundreds of battles in, running a 19 pointer and all signals and premium consumables.

T5 is a perfect tier for no gimmick simple and fun games. You have Hydro, an occasional Radar (e.g. Atlanta, Indianapolis) you might meet a French DD with MBRB you have everything at a balanced level. Nations start showing their flavors in a way. You don't need to go down to T3 or T4. Yet many people go to T1 to T4 for other reasons. This doesn't help.

 

1 hour ago, Cambera_1 said:

Finally, if a player is engaging with Research Bureau and can't therefore Seal Club in the line reset wants to Seal Club, then there are other lines being introduced all the time. These lines can be used for the neferious activities. 

As I said in my opening post you can be in low tiers for regrinding purposes and grinding a new line.

(not to mention that I think most seasoned players will just FXP their way to T5).

It is better to have fewer experienced players in low tiers than more. 

 

As a general comment, I claim that it is not only Hosho that is a problem. Can you imagine a 3 X Div from my clan in T4 or T3? How much fun would it be for inexperienced players? Or even if I took my Isokaze and spammed 6 torps every 37 seconds how fun would it be for the inexperienced players that are just learning how not to sail in a straight line? 

 

1 hour ago, Captain_Newman said:

sealclubbers (and low tier CV infestation) chase new players away

I think this is a very valid statement (with a small addition in bold typeface from me):

 

46 minutes ago, Gnirf said:

Sure I am a veteran but should that not give advantage.

Do you prefer to use your vast experience as an advantage over me for example, or, over someone that has 300 or 400 battles?

 

Regards

Saltface

 

 

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3 hours ago, Gnirf said:

Sure I am a veteran but should that not give advantage. Nothing stops you or others from training your captains. You just have to put in same effort. If you for some reason should have restrictions they should focus on battle tier not ship tier

I disagree.

 

You are a veteran, you do have an advantage - your skill and experience. Why do you also need the high level captain? It's like a level 50 player duelling a level 15.

 

I could even take it a bit further. "No one is stopping you from training a captain". Yes, they are! Seal clubbers are stopping me from training.

 

Now, I know my suggestion would never come to pass, it was more for fun anyway. But I do think the captain (and sometimes a pay to win ship) is the main unfair advantage seal clubbers have.

 

Even the playing field and let's see who has the skill!

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@NothingButTheRain

 

Well, you have asked for it and you will get it. (the answer)

You are trying to show that I am a T5 player (which I am) and that I have played a lot the Kamikaze (which is also true).

 

What you patently failed to see is that I have stopped playing regularly the Kamikaze long time ago. On this forum I asked for help to learn to play DDs (AFTER THE REWORK)

I got help and I started playing the Kamikaze. And I played more than 1,000 battles with it. And I did well with it. I also managed to get the 63rd best damage record of all times with her. And now I don't play her as much as I 'd like any more (sadly coz I really love that ship). I play as you can see other DDs of higher tiers as I am a DD main. And to be honest I don't do many randoms the last 6 months as I play almost exclusively Clan Wars. 

 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.f300dfb4e11b70b71dd853deaab3fda6.png

image.thumb.png.f48123c72ff38e24ca10215c11514f7a.png

 

As you can see I have about another 1,000 battles on higher tier DDs.

 

So, in brief, I started playing WoWs 15 months ago. I started playing BBs and Cruisers and I did 842 battles with Cruisers and 827 Battles with BBs (German line almost exclusively). These are my first battles in WoWs. (approx 1,700 battles)

Then I picked up DD play. I did 1,000 battles with the Kamikaze and then went on.(counter is up to 2,700 battles)

And...damn this killed your cheap narrative....another 1,000 battles in top tier DDs. (counter 3,700)

 

Just go check how many Randoms I have. (I ll not tire myself anymore to copy paste from the profiles just to answer your malicious effort to derail my topic)

 

(All above can be verified easily but you was so hasty to discredit the thread that you didn't put the basic effort to read a bit more and do proper research)

 

 image.thumb.png.a243bff38e81ec80823efa79429f0459.png

I am sure you can find it as it is the same place where you investigated me.

 

Now, my precious little sunshine, I think that you should read better the opening post where I said don't troll coz I ll troll you back.

 

Answer on the subject of the post because you are clearly off topic and what you thought that you found is nothing more than the failed attempt of a second class troll to come in and try to derail the topic and get some brownie points.

 

Grow up

 

Lovingly and affectionately 

Saltface

(the Kamikaze menace)

image.png.5ac1e2e4431b7a73e1a5be708e1703dc.png

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Saltface said:

P.S. Troll the thread and I ll troll you back 

 

2 minutes ago, Saltface said:

@NothingButTheRain

 

Well, you have asked for it and you will get it. (the answer)

You are trying to show that I am a T5 player (which I am) and that I have played a lot the Kamikaze (which is also true).

 

What you patently failed to see is that I have stopped playing regularly the Kamikaze long time ago. On this forum I asked for help to learn to play DDs (AFTER THE REWORK)

I got help and I started playing the Kamikaze. And I played more than 1,000 battles with it. And I did well with it. I also managed to get the 63rd best damage record of all times with her. And now I don't play her as much as I 'd like any more (sadly coz I really love that ship). I play as you can see other DDs of higher tiers as I am a DD main. And to be honest I don't do many randoms the last 6 months as I play almost exclusively Clan Wars. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.f300dfb4e11b70b71dd853deaab3fda6.png

image.thumb.png.f48123c72ff38e24ca10215c11514f7a.png

 

As you can see I have about another 1,000 battles on higher tier DDs.

 

So, in brief, I started playing WoWs 15 months ago. I started playing BBs and Cruisers and I did 842 battles with Cruisers and 827 Battles with BBs (German line almost exclusively). These are my first battles in WoWs. (approx 1,700 battles)

Then I picked up DD play. I did 1,000 battles with the Kamikaze and then went on.(counter is up to 2,700 battles)

And...damn this killed your cheap narrative....another 1,000 battles in top tier DDs. (counter 3,700)

 

Just go check how many Randoms I have. (I ll not tire myself anymore to copy paste from the profiles just to answer your malicious effort to derail my topic)

 

(All above can be verified easily but you was so hasty to discredit the thread that you didn't put the basic effort to read a bit more and do proper research)

 

 image.thumb.png.a243bff38e81ec80823efa79429f0459.png

I am sure you can find it as it is the same place where you investigated me.

 

Now, my precious little sunshine, I think that you should read better the opening post where I said don't troll coz I ll troll you back.

 

Answer on the subject of the post because you are clearly off topic and what you thought that you found is nothing more than the failed attempt of a second class troll to come in and try to derail the topic and get some brownie points.

 

Grow up

 

Lovingly and affectionately 

Saltface

(the Kamikaze menace)

image.png.5ac1e2e4431b7a73e1a5be708e1703dc.png

 

 

 

Your reply doesn't have the feel of a backtrollage, but is more as if you're feeling attacked :Smile_trollface:

 

Anyway, have a nice day :crab:

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2 hours ago, Saltface said:

As you can see I have about another 1,000 battles on higher tier DDs.

No you dont, in fact all of your T8-10 battles added together (we are talking randoms here) barely reach your Kamikaze battle number, so you are part of the problem (seal clubbing) buddy and only beef I can read in this thread you posted here is the T4 CVs ruining your Kamikaze expeditions, btw I dont think access should be restricted to any ship you unlocked by play or otherwise

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Dunno about the "Seal clubbing" at low tiers, to me the chance of being clubbed by a CV in a low tier game is way higher than me clubbing someone.

Played the Gangut a few weks ago, Hosho sunk me in the first 5 mnutes, was down to below half health before I even got into firing range, would have been better off in a DD vs rocket planes, with both  speed and smoke at least you have a chance

I did like 0 damage in that game.

No I dont play CV:s

I pretty much totally given up everything below tier 6

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2 hours ago, Yedwy said:

No you dont

1012

 

 

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3 hours ago, Saltface said:

1012

I count 786 battles in your T8-10 DDs

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7 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

I count 786 battles in your T8-10 DDs

T6 to T10 (5 Tiers)

 

But what is the purpose of the counting of my battles? What is it to prove? I made a What if scenario. And the attention is now on my battles. Which is irrelevant.

 

Are my battles an argument against the what if scenario I suggested?

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Saltface said:

T6 to T10 (5 Tiers)

 

But what is the purpose of the counting of my battles? What is it to prove? I made a What if scenario. And the attention is now on my battles. Which is irrelevant.

 

Are my battles an argument against the what if scenario I suggested?

 

 

 

 

 

Forum pass time? Open up peoples stats and start bashing them seems to be the modus operandi around here sometimes. Or dismiss what ever they say because they haven't played 20,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Random battles in [INSERT CLASS HERE]

 

It's why people get so upset when others hide their stats. :Smile_trollface: (and no my stats aren't hidden... I don't think - not that I have anything to showoff or brag about)

 

(Before anyone kicks off I'm joking here) Your all wonderful people have a free thumbs up!

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8 hours ago, Saltface said:

T6 to T10 (5 Tiers)

 

But what is the purpose of the counting of my battles? What is it to prove? I made a What if scenario. And the attention is now on my battles. Which is irrelevant.

 

Are my battles an argument against the what if scenario I suggested?

You claimed you have another 1000 battles in high tier DDs, which you dont, ALL of your other DDs seem to barely reach an overpowered t5 sealclubbing machine, let me give you an alternative what if scenario, what if you actually played OTHER tier DDs for 1000 games in each tier, preferably those of the high tier kind and then you can post lamentations about how people get seal clubbed and need the low tier access restricted...

 

BTW let me ask you one question - would you have yourself restricted from playing Kamikaze? If not why not, so you belive a seal feels less clubbed if murdered by a kamikaze instead of Hosho?

 

And just we are clear I barely play my Kami and I NEVER play T4 CVs anymore not even when doing a regrind for the RB

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1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

I barely play my Kami and I NEVER play T4 CVs

You still concentrate on my stats.

I will repeat the same question which you haven't answered.

 

Are they relevant with the proposal I made?

 

Instead you set up a poor attempt to ad hominem* the OP by stating:

 

he plays the Kamikaze which is an:

1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

overpowered t5 sealclubbing machine

but his narrative is :

16 hours ago, Yedwy said:

the T4 CVs ruining your his Kamikaze expeditions

 

I could answer back saying that I have only played DDs after the rework and I m doing rather well, so my expeditions are not ruined by CVs, or that I have less than 100 battles after August 2019 in the Kami, but I wonder if there would be any purpose to this as you have no arguments concerning the thread, instead,  you just think you found something to say about the OP to discredit him for some reason and you stick to that.

 

So, now I ll go sealclubbing to enjoy my Isokaze and you can follow my stats and watch my low tier games increase, as this is what you enjoy more than having a proper conversation on the topic I started.

 

*Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

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