Update 0.9.1: British Heavy Cruisers Part 2

[Shadeshots]

Hurray so now the steel i had to in your words (roughly)' take time to accumulate the resources to gain', has been wasted on Black.  So now i've 100% wasted it, which again takes time to accumulate.

Thanks WG.... Nice to know the time i spent along with others in your game amounts to basically a big' f you'.

My respect for your piss poor company is continuing to fall. Keep it up.

[Thrall1983]

44 minutes ago, MrConway said:

I think this is the third consecutive update with a nerf to Kremlin and we will keep making changes until she is at the point where we want her to be.

 

This approach lets us look at the live data and see the impact of the smaller changes on her balance from update to update. 

Hardly any nerf at all, we are talking about minor changes that is hardly even noticeable. And one of those nerfs only applies with CV's around.

I find it interesting how Soviet ships is met with such care, yet when it comes to other nation ships you have no problem applying the slegdehammer, like with the Henry nerf.

 

I wonder why it is like this.

[anonym_WHY4JO92xZKJ]

15 hours ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

Btw guys, about the new test ships (Agir, Yashima, exc.) don't expect anything from Flamu as it has been chat-banned for like 90 days on EU and WG also excluded him from getting the new test ships. 

Clip of today talking about it (https://www.twitch.tv/flamuu/clip/GenerousWanderingSandwichTinyFace?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time)

 

and also, just to warn WG, he's beginning to think about leaving the CC program; he hasn't decided or prepered anything yet, but the thought is there.

 

That's so smart, when someone points up at a problem, instead of talking and solving it, that someone is "sent to a gulag" for 90 days.

This way the community will split even more, and dislike even strongly the new russian paper ships that are coming.

What wg do expect?

Do they never learn from past mistakes?

[416taylor]

38 minutes ago, Shadeshot said:

Hurray so now the steel i had to in your words (roughly)' take time to accumulate the resources to gain', has been wasted on Black.  So now i've 100% wasted it, which again takes time to accumulate.

Thanks WG.... Nice to know the time i spent along with others in your game amounts to basically a big' f you'.

My respect for your piss poor company is continuing to fall. Keep it up.

I don't understand why they can't compensate, it's easy. it can be done in the same way as when you rebuy a ship that you allready have. you get compensated with duoblions. why not compensate those who rebuing them with steel, because that's what we've paid with for them 

[Peffers]

Will there be a free captain respect to go with the module adjustment, or is it WG's position that all module changes are enhancements?

[MarcoGn97]

1 ora fa, MrConway ha scritto:

 

I think this is the third consecutive update with a nerf to Kremlin and we will keep making changes until she is at the point where we want her to be.

 

This approach lets us look at the live data and see the impact of the smaller changes on her balance from update to update.

The core issue about the Kremlin balance progress is that the Balance team is tweaking the wrong parameters. Kremlin overperforms cause 2 main aspects:

 

1) Her main battery dispersion, while being advertised as poor at range, is mostly false than true. The vertical dispersion, the one which makes you hit or miss the target (or the critical hit spot) is the lowest of all tier 10 battleships, with only Slava beating it. To make you a numeric example, at 20km Kremlin has 97m Vdisp while Montana (the closest tech tree one) has 124m Vdisp, a 27% difference in favor of Kremlin. Meanwhile the horizontal dispersion is higher by 3m...this BAD long range dispersion isn't bad at all isn't it? Adding a 1.85 sigma (pretending a 2.7% difference from 1.9 makes a meaningful difference), shells group together at a decent rate and make it even better.

 

2) Her supposedly weak broadside isn't weak at all. Her citadel is the thickest at tier 10 closer to the extremities and on US level amidship. Ending the discussion here it would seem fairly weak cause above the waterline, but the citadel is also very sloped. This means, already at 10km a lot of guns struggle to pierce through it. Not to mention at higher ranges her guns can citadel a Yamato but not vice versa. Additionally, the ship sits pretty low in the water, making the broadside area not as big of a target as other ships (approx 2/3 of Yamato's broadside).

 

I'd add the shells penetration doesn't make sense since it's middle of the pack at close range but best in class at long range, quite the opposite of its design, but that's a "minor" flaw.

 

As of now, the nerfs have been:

 

1) Nerf to the damage output and shell ballistics.

This was a first step, not exactly the correct one but was a step.

 

2) 50% AA and secondary mounts hp nerf.

This one wad nothing to do with the issues, I say it's a funny one cause it literally makes no sense. Put Aux.Armaments mod.1 and this nerf is gone, the main turrets are hard nuts to crack anyway.

 

3) 0.05 sigma nerf.

The first time in the history of WoWs a sigma buff/nerf is so small. Still not relevant enough with the issues.

 

At this rate, you can nerf Kremlin for 10 more consecutive times and it will still have the same issues.

 

This is a change I'd like to see:

 

Battleship Kremlin, Tier X:

• Accuracy settings tweaked to make the ship less accurate at ranges above 13km.
• Model updated, now the slope of the citadel will be less pronounced.

Not a tweezers tweak on an irrelevant stat...plus, this would absolutely have 0 impact on her supposed playstyle, as you want every balance change to act.

[416taylor]

2 minutes ago, 416taylor said:

I don't understand why they can't compensate, it's easy. it can be done in the same way as when you rebuy a ship that you allready have. you get compensated with duoblions. why not compensate those who rebuing them with steel, because that's what we've paid with for them 

The people that have those ships are players that have contributed a lot to this game and they shouldn't be pissed on because they will properbly continue to contrbute to this game if being heard. 

With the common inaktive clans it's very hard to get that steel and it hurts when it's being wasted in vain

[mel1111]

18 hours ago, SeaSickOllie said:

 

This is for those players that already have already obtained the combat mission(s).

It could have been clearer in that original post, but it was clarified afterwards in the comments and in other publications such as the PT notes and last Updates notes. 

 

Also please keep that as with any Development Blog post, the information is preliminary and subject to change.

It would be nice for a change, that we can rely on announcements to stand and not be "subject to change"

 

[mel1111]

What I also understand out of these changes is that if we want these special upgrades, we HAVE to enter in this stupid research theme. I spoke to a few players who entered and they are "not amused" with the procedures and outcomes. Result: quite a few long time players have already voted with their feet. The way this goes, is that even more terrible play will occur and even more players will end their enthousiasm for WOWS.

[anonym_WHY4JO92xZKJ]

11 minutes ago, MarcoGn97 said:

2) Her supposedly weak broadside isn't weak at all. Her citadel is the thickest at tier 10 closer to the extremities and on US level amidship. Ending the discussion here it would seem fairly weak cause above the waterline, but the citadel is also very sloped. This means, already at 10km a lot of guns struggle to pierce through it. Not to mention at higher ranges her guns can citadel a Yamato but not vice versa. Additionally, the ship sits pretty low in the water, making the broadside area not as big of a target as other ships (approx 2/3 of Yamato's broadside).

The Yoshino 305 mm at under 10 km and with a perfect angle, could not citadel the Kremlin even if hitting her with accuracy 18 times...

Is a ship that in a cruiser, you can hope to damage only with he and torpedo.

And i haven't see this in any other battleship of the game

[Klopirat]

9 minutes ago, mel1111 said:

It would be nice for a change, that we can rely on announcements to stand

so you want that those missions can only be finished until mid of March ? And of course no more information/news about upcoming ships, events, ... until they hit the live server...

[Blixies]

12 minutes ago, dunbine said:

The Yoshino 305 mm at under 10 km and with a perfect angle, could not citadel the Kremlin even if hitting her with accuracy 18 times...

Is a ship that in a cruiser, you can hope to damage only with he and torpedo.

And i haven't see this in any other battleship of the game

You can damage her with cruiser AP alright,  just not citadel her. That's a big difference.
You could say the same for Jean Bart, that one is also virtually  impossible to citadel by a cruiser. Does that make her immune to AP?

On the other hand, I agree that the tankiness of Kreml is ridiculously high.

[FreakinBiber]

@Sehales just an idea - when you withdraw the steal ships and later on put them into the armory for coal:

Maybe it would be nice to introduce a steel mission you can only start/complete having the ship already. 

(one Mission stream per ship - Black, Flint, Neustrashimy). That way you reward Players a bit who got the ships for steel?

They could earn lets say 1500 to 2000 steel from it...

Just thinking out loud...

 

(I only have the Black...enjoyed her and am anyway short on coal AND steel all the time :-) )

[wot_2016_gunner]

3 minuti fa, FreakinBiber ha scritto:

@Sehales just an idea - when you withdraw the steal ships and later on put them into the armory for coal:

Maybe it would be nice to introduce a steel mission you can only start/complete having the ship already. 

(one Mission stream per ship - Black, Flint, Neustrashimy). That way you reward Players a bit who got the ships for steel?

They could earn lets say 1500 to 2000 steel from it...

Just thinking out loud...

 

(I only have the Black...enjoyed her and am anyway short on coal AND steel all the time :-) )

That's not a bad idea.

[Maris_Piper]

1. Well I keep reading all the posts on the Forum and watching the CC reviews Some that are down to earth and to the point and One that seems to do the Wee Gee Ra Ra Ra on everything, and it seems to be a Fact Wargaming only listen when the cash flow slows, Promises mean nothing unless convenient and if they do bow to pressure as in Naval Training Centre then it will re emerge as something else eg Research Bureau. So hey WG get on with it I've spent some cash on the game so I'll just watch you kill it off by trying to grab more and more. I do like the new upgrades, Getting rid of Narai  me off as the t6 ones suck, And the New Russian Heavies will be curb stomp the new Brit Cruisers so SNAFU Happy Days 

[Ice___]

22 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

The change of Kremlin is not enough and will not fix her overperformance. She needs a Sigma of 1.7.

Then you need to focus on aiming and stop blame the Kremlin. Its still UP when most of tier 10 ships include Cruisers can hit targets  that are at 20 k range or more  Kremlin is ok in Close combat but cant survive like a big DD.  

its still a bad ship that is a easy target for all He spammers. 

[anonym_WHY4JO92xZKJ]

59 minutes ago, Blixies said:

You can damage her with cruiser AP alright,  just not citadel her. That's a big difference.
You could say the same for Jean Bart, that one is also virtually  impossible to citadel by a cruiser. Does that make her immune to AP?

On the other hand, I agree that the tankiness of Kreml is ridiculously high.

my bad, i should learn how to create a video, and post it

sorry but the yoshino is a battlecruiser, with 305 mm guns, and they bounce a lot over kremlin if i try to aim at its main body

i score damage (overpen) only when aiming at the superstructure...

[Ice___]

Kremlin need to be more like the rest of tier 10 battleships to fit in.

 

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, Ice___ said:

Then you need to focus on aiming and stop blame the Kremlin. Its still UP when most of tier 10 ships include Cruisers can hit targets  that are at 20 k range or more  Kremlin is ok in Close combat but cant survive like a big DD.  

its still a bad ship that is a easy target for all He spammers. 

I suggest you take a look at the server performance...

[Ice___]

9 minutes ago, dunbine said:

my bad, i should learn how to create a video, and post it

sorry but the yoshino is a battlecruiser, with 305 mm guns, and they bounce a lot over kremlin if i try to aim at its main body

i score damage (overpen) only when aiming at the superstructure...

Try to NOT use AP next time.... it easy to kill Kremlin at ranges that it cant even defend itself. I dont have any problem using AP and do good dmg on  Kremlin in my Yoshino and  a Kremlin do not stand a chance 1 vs 1...  if you use Yoshino correct.

[Thrall1983]

17 minutes ago, Ice___ said:

Then you need to focus on aiming and stop blame the Kremlin. Its still UP when most of tier 10 ships include Cruisers can hit targets  that are at 20 k range or more  Kremlin is ok in Close combat but cant survive like a big DD.  

its still a bad ship that is a easy target for all He spammers. 

I find it interesting that the ship you are actually doing best in amongst all your Tier X ships you have is the one ship you claim is underperforming.

Maybe and I am not trying to insult you, but it could be that you are the one not playing the ship right.

 

So maybe I will continue to say the Kremlin is actually OP compared to the other Tier 10 battleships as ColonelPete pointed out.

[Echo_519]

Vor 3 Stunden, MrConway sagte:

Unfortunately we were not able to get the fix rolled out in this version, hopefully it will make it into the next release.

Too bad, but thanks for clarification ;)

[TheWarJaC]

3 hours ago, FreakinBiber said:

@Sehales just an idea - when you withdraw the steal ships and later on put them into the armory for coal:

Maybe it would be nice to introduce a steel mission you can only start/complete having the ship already. 

(one Mission stream per ship - Black, Flint, Neustrashimy). That way you reward Players a bit who got the ships for steel?

They could earn lets say 1500 to 2000 steel from it...

Just thinking out loud...

 

(I only have the Black...enjoyed her and am anyway short on coal AND steel all the time :-) )

Hi @FreakinBiber, I took the freedom to reply on Sehales' behalf (he is temporarily focusing on skiing, rather than sailing the seas😊). I think that yours could be a good idea to implement possibly in the game. We always try to engage and reward our passionate players in the best way we can. I’ll pass this concept of yours to our development team so we can discuss it internally 😉

 

Keep in mind though that, while yours is a good idea indeed, it is likely that we will choose another path in the end; also remember, that by buying the ships for Steel, you can exclusively access them 6 months before they are available in exchange of Coal in the Armory!

[Venatos]

cheesus people, if you are going to do 30ish Gigs worth of read/write operations when unpacking and installing a 2GB update, would it kill you to do that crap in ram? my poor old hdd would thank you.

[T3ddyBear]

20 hours ago, Thrall1983 said:

Hardly any nerf at all, we are talking about minor changes that is hardly even noticeable. And one of those nerfs only applies with CV's around.

I find it interesting how Soviet ships is met with such care, yet when it comes to other nation ships you have no problem applying the slegdehammer, like with the Henry nerf.

 

I wonder why it is like this.

Am guessing it is because of the 30% slide in RU player numbers, the RU player base is already asking for buffs for the russian BB's, they cannot adapt to the play style, they just want to yolo in and smash face it seems. If they gave Kremlin the nerfs it deserves the russian server would look like one of those old gold mining towns in the US, just dust and tumbleweeds.

 

TB.