Tech Tree: Left and right nerfs with 0 justification

[AdmiralTonya]

WG you have the most sly way of making a player grind off a new tech tree line, only to nerf them within a few months! and the worst part is immediately releasing a premium which is a total 100% copy of the pre nerfed ship! 
Every new tech tree line goes through months of testing, supertesters, ccs (the best players who can even  point out whether the ship will be overpowered or not just by looking at the stats/playing a game!!)
Henri IV had an identity of its own. You hammered it to the ground. its very close to being useless now.
Kleber nerf was not needed! So why flush the ship out when you will eventually show us trash spreadsheet data and nerf every tech tree ship!?  Conqueror 457 into a unique premium was not really needed. could have kept both to keep current players with that ship happy. Why are you taking away stuff which the player has spent days grinding on! ITS not justified! Such frequent and drastic nerfs to french line without even a test session with the CCs is unacceptable! Great way to start 2020.  (On the other hand I do support the series of kremlin nerf aa rolled out with the sigma change in 0.9.1)
At this point I think we all can agree on the fact that venezia will be getting a nerf this year along with the release of a tier IX/tier X premium italian cruiser (which will be a 100% copy paste structure of venezia/brindisi)
And whats with the HEAP TON OF copy paste ships. Marceu/Smalland/Slava/Bajie/Wukong like really im not even considering the copy paste hulls like thunderer and ohio! 
This has become a pattern now.  **release a New tech tree line with some very interesting stats- wait for 4 months-nerf it-release a copy paste premium-repeat!**
If venezia gets a nerf im out of here, after the heated december, i dont have the patience to keep up with the way you treat the playerbase.
 

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

- Henri IV definitely needed nerfing in some way, not sure if they did it well but man it needed nerfing alright

- Kleber is overnerfed now, hard, but WG may try to get french DDs to play a different role. 
- Sinop and Kremlin need significant further nerfs. 
- Venezia definitely needs nerfing
- Brindisi needs nerfing/tweaking
- Amalfi needs nerfing/tweaking

- if you're out, WG doesnt really care too much

Also, imo some more ships should get buffed instead of nerfing the good ones. 
Buff the Zao, Ibuki, Hakuryu, Midway, Gearing, Montana, GK, FderG, Bismarck, Tirpitz, PA DDs, and a couple more. 
All of those are pretty powercrept- with the PAs never having been in a good spot to begin with

[CastorTolagi]

And at the same time WG is buffing Tech Tree ships left right and center.

Unbelievable!!! 

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

Henri IV had an identity of its own. You hammered it to the ground. its very close to being useless now.

 

No its not. Guns are exactly the same than prenerf. I doubt most people actually used accelerate dodging, and if so, most of them are unicums, who have no problem adapting to that.

 

3 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

Kleber nerf was not needed!

Yes it was needed

 

3 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

Conqueror 457 into a unique premium was not really needed.

I think its better that way, so you can buff/nerf both if needed. Conqueror was superior with 419s, and the 457s dont have anything to do with current Thunderer guns. On the other hand, Conqueror has insane heal, which Thunderer has not. If they would have buffed the Conq 457s to perform like thunderers now, it would have been massivly OP due to the heal. Now its more balanced, but Thunderer certainly is strong. Thunderer definetely is the AP version now, and Conq can be played more with HE.

 

5 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

the copy paste hulls like thunderer and ohio! 

Ohio is not a copy paste version of anything.

 

6 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

If venezia gets a nerf im out of here,

I think it does deserve one tho

[ForlornSailor]

3 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

Henri IV had an identity of its own. You hammered it to the ground. its very close to being useless now.

 

Not even close.

 

5 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

Kleber nerf was not needed!

 

Needs even more / different nerf

 

5 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

Conqueror 457 into a unique premium was not really needed.

 

Yes it was because 457 Conq wasnt an option.

 

6 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

If venezia gets a nerf im out of here

 

Then prepare because that thing needs a nerf.

[AdmiralTonya]

Just now, CastorTolagi said:

And at the same time WG is buffing Tech Tree ships left right and center.

Unbelievable!!! 

Gk still as useless,
Hindenberg is the only decent buff we got! montana buff should have been months ago along with the other US BBs 

[ColonelPete]

10 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

WG you have the most sly way of making a player grind off a new tech tree line, only to nerf them within a few months! and the worst part is immediately releasing a premium which is a total 100% copy of the pre nerfed ship! 
Every new tech tree line goes through months of testing, supertesters, ccs (the best players who can even  point out whether the ship will be overpowered or not just by looking at the stats/playing a game!!)
Henri IV had an identity of its own. You hammered it to the ground. its very close to being useless now.
Kleber nerf was not needed! So why flush the ship out when you will eventually show us trash spreadsheet data and nerf every tech tree ship!?  Conqueror 457 into a unique premium was not really needed. could have kept both to keep current players with that ship happy. Why are you taking away stuff which the player has spent days grinding on! ITS not justified! Such frequent and drastic nerfs to french line without even a test session with the CCs is unacceptable! Great way to start 2020.  (On the other hand I do support the series of kremlin nerf aa rolled out with the sigma change in 0.9.1)
At this point I think we all can agree on the fact that venezia will be getting a nerf this year along with the release of a tier IX/tier X premium italian cruiser (which will be a 100% copy paste structure of venezia/brindisi)
And whats with the HEAP TON OF copy paste ships. Marceu/Smalland/Slava/Bajie/Wukong like really im not even considering the copy paste hulls like thunderer and ohio! 
This has become a pattern now.  **release a New tech tree line with some very interesting stats- wait for 4 months-nerf it-release a copy paste premium-repeat!**
If venezia gets a nerf im out of here, after the heated december, i dont have the patience to keep up with the way you treat the playerbase.
 

0 justification?

I suggest to look at ships server performance from time to time.

[VanD4rk]

22 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

Henri IV had an identity of its own. You hammered it to the ground. its very close to being useless now.

I agree with this 100%. Henri IV was butchered so that rusky ships have an easy time hitting it with the laser accurate guns and 0 skill of aiming. This ship is less and less played. I have seen more Venezia in CB until now than Henri IV. And this tells a lot since Venezia is the last addition of TX with the fewest owners.

 

Dunno what to say about Kleber since I do not have her, but that ship put the Khaba in shadow a lot. I let others who have that comment more.

 

22 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

If venezia gets a nerf im out of here, after the heated december, i dont have the patience to keep up with the way you treat the playerbase.

By the amount of raging potatoes that thing will get a nerf by WG logic. It's a ship which require skill to shine with those long reload guns, but once you get to that you can save some potatoes teams. And once WG sees that they will punish the skill with a nerf. Just what they did with Henri.

[kapnobathrac]

Henri was badly nerfed 

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, AdmiralTonya said:

Gk still as useless,
Hindenberg is the only decent buff we got! montana buff should have been months ago along with the other US BBs 

[bigdoguk]

Don't forget about smolensk,needs smoke buff,reload and radar buffs please wg.

😁

[Sargento_YO]

Something I miss in WOWS it's having a ship which is extremly good at something, but it's balanced by being bad in something else...

For instance, in WOT you have the KV-2 derp gun (capable of one shoot some tanks, but with a heck long reload time). Just to give an example.

[NothingButTheRain]

2 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

- Henri IV definitely needed nerfing in some way, not sure if they did it well but man it needed nerfing alright

Why?

 

Btw, I'm ok with them trying to prevent these long range shell jukes by first sitting stationary till some shells are on the way, then speedboosting either forward or backward to completely dodge these shells. This was kinda weird.

But they should at least keep its movement characteristics at full speed, like how much speed it bleeds when making a turn.

 

But why did you think it needed a nerf to begin with?

[Animalul2012]

Venezia nerf LOL! that thing needs a reload buff or better SAP or even better AP as does the rest of the line! I mean sure SAP does damage only when the target is not saturated and sits and the right angle! And for everyone out here who calls this ship OP please go fight a moskva,stalingrad, or a des moines or any other BB(especialy soviet and german ones) that sits bow in and come back and tell me how many ricochets did you get and do it below 10km!

[Ronchabale]

Alsace: Reload 30s to 32s,  Sigma 1.7 to 1.6. (dont see many in tier 9-10 games)

----->  Yeah the Bourgogne appeared

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Care to explain which side are you on ? Because the table definitely proves GK is useless ... WR on par with the rest bur 2nd to last or last in all the other categories (XP, damage, K/D, survivability) ... only tanking is decent ...

[Gnomus]

8 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Care to explain which side are you on ? Because the table definitely proves GK is useless ... WR on par with the rest bur 2nd to last or last in all the other categories (XP, damage, K/D, survivability) ... only tanking is decent ...

Actually that is pretty interesting table.

 

Kremlin is simply OP, so let's put it to side for a moment.

 

GK has (second) best WR, but lacks in damage and sinks. Has clearly lowest survivality but (second) best tanking. This makes me think if the GK is a kind of BB where people do useful stuff for the team (like getting close to enemy, supporting others) even if they get sunk more and have less individual performance. 

 

Same time Conqueror has clearly highest damage and survival, but it's performance is not manifesting to higher WR or sinks. 

 

This in turn raises a question how much those performance numbers tell us? Would low performing ship doing the right thing (getting close to enemy, helping the team) still be better than high performing ship doing wrong thing (farming individual performance from the rear while sacrificing team members)?

 

Of course this ends up in played behaviour, but is one reason why I personally don't give much weight to pure performance numbers without knowledge of how they are gained.

[ColonelPete]

42 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Care to explain which side are you on ? Because the table definitely proves GK is useless ... WR on par with the rest bur 2nd to last or last in all the other categories (XP, damage, K/D, survivability) ... only tanking is decent ...

If winning is useless to you...

Why I am surprised? This is the WoWs forum

23 minutes ago, Gnomus said:

Kremlin is simply OP, so let's put it to side for a moment.

Stop with the "OP" spam! When you read the forum everything is "OP" or "UP" and therefore a completly useless designation.

She is too strong, nothing more.

[ShinGetsu]

I really don't understand in what way Venezia needs a nerf.

 

It's a barely okay ship in my book, and it's about the worst carry as a cruiser, behind even Zao.

Sure it deals huge damage with SAP sometimes. Sometimes. Every single other time you curse the fact you don't have HE and you can't even force a DCP use with fires.

 

And Amalfi and Brindisi a close to being downright bad. Brindisi doesn't have nowhere near enough DPM, and the short range just sucks. Especially since its concealment is also terrible.

[neorvo]

6 hours ago, AdmiralTonya said:

Hindenberg is the only decent buff we got!

What was Hindenberg buff?

[Profilus]

18 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Buff... Hakuryu, Midway... and a couple more. 
All of those are pretty powercrept

WTF???

Powercreeped by what?

[Yedwy]

4 minutes ago, Profilus said:

WTF???

Powercreeped by what?

I think that was weapongrade sarcasm m8 ^^

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, Yedwy said:

I think that was weapongrade sarcasm m8 ^^

 

These days - impossible to tell. Id like it to be sarcasm but I dont think so.

[Captain_Newman]

7 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

These days - impossible to tell. Id like it to be sarcasm but I dont think so.

 

Sadly, I'm doubtful that was sarcasm given the whole array of ships he listed there. 

[Kartoffelmos]

13 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Stop with the "OP" spam! When you read the forum everything is "OP" or "UP" and therefore a completly useless designation.

She is too strong, nothing more.

 

Since we are arguing semantics:

OP = overpowered (alternatively overperforming but that's less sensational) = "to provide with more power than is needed or desirable" (Merrian-Webster).

 

Except for your own interpretation of the term, what exactly is wrong here? Too strong also means that the ship is overpowered, you know.