detection range bug?

[HassenderZerhacker]

I noticed today that when I am using a spotter plane and fire further than my normal range I got spotted by my target, but if I fire without active spotter plane, and an enemy is at the same distance, I don't get spotted.

 

Is this a bug?

[DFens_666]

Maximum detection range is always maximum shooting range after you shot.

If you have 14km range and shoot, you can be detected up to 14km. If you use spotter plane and now have 15,5km shooting range, then its 15,5km.

[HassenderZerhacker]

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Maximum detection range is always maximum shooting range after you shot.

If you have 14km range and shoot, you can be detected up to 14km. If you use spotter plane and now have 15,5km shooting range, then its 15,5km.

so... MY PLANE is improving spotting for the enemy. nice.

 

err... this doesn't make any sense at all?

 

P.S.

thanks for the explanation that confirms my suspicion

[DFens_666]

Just now, HassenderZerhacker said:

err... this doesn't make any sense at all?

 

well actually it does, its working as intended. We used to have stealth firing back in the days (you could shoot further than you were spotted after shooting).

If this wouldnt change while using a spotter plane, we still would have ships that could be undetected after they shot.

[ForlornSailor]

It gets better tho: When your BB has enough range (more then the visibility range of a DD) and lets say the CV is spotting that DD far away - you can shoot it without beeing detected - IF there is nothing else spotting you.

[Estaca_de_Bares]

What @ForlornSailor explained, but in a picture:

 

Salute.

[HassenderZerhacker]

7 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

It gets better tho: When your BB has enough range (more then the visibility range of a DD) and lets say the CV is spotting that DD far away - you can shoot it without beeing detected - IF there is nothing else spotting you.

 

now I'm confused: this is what I would expect to happen and appears to be the opposite of what actually happens in the game?

 

because if what previous posters explained is true, when for example my Kongo shoots at 25 Km using a spotter plane, any ship with line of sight within that max range radius should spot my Kongo when it's shooting?

 

or is there a maximum spotting range?

[pra3y]

32 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

 

now I'm confused: this is what I would expect to happen and appears to be the opposite of what actually happens in the game?

 

because if what previous posters explained is true, when for example my Kongo shoots at 25 Km using a spotter plane, any ship with line of sight within that max range radius should spot my Kongo when it's shooting?

 

or is there a maximum spotting range?

Its more of a view range. From the minimap it looks like this:

 

Anything within that that transparent cone is what you can see (to be exact/specific, it is 360 degrees around your ship, the cone is just where you are point towards). So if your CV spots an enemy BB at C3, while you can see it on the minimap, you cannot visually see it in game until they come within that view radius. 

 

Using your example, assuming your Kongo has 25km gun range with spotter and your kongo has a view radius of 25km and say 14km surface detection. Your friendly CV plane spots an enemy minikaze (assume that the minikaze has a view range of 16km) at 24km. You would not be surface detected at 15km, but if you shoot your guns, the gun "bloom" will cause you to be detected  by the minikaze cause you are within its 16km view range.

 

But if you shot at 24km, it cannot see you even though the bloom goes out to 25km as it can only "see" up to 16km. However, say if there was also an enemy kongo next to that minikaze with a clear line of sight to you (i.e. no islands in the way), then both the enemy minikaze and the kongo will see you as the enemy kongo also has a 25km view range.

[HassenderZerhacker]

1 hour ago, pra3y said:

Its more of a view range. From the minimap it looks like this:

 

Anything within that that transparent cone is what you can see (to be exact/specific, it is 360 degrees around your ship, the cone is just where you are point towards). So if your CV spots an enemy BB at C3, while you can see it on the minimap, you cannot visually see it in game until they come within that view radius. 

 

Using your example, assuming your Kongo has 25km gun range with spotter and your kongo has a view radius of 25km and say 14km surface detection. Your friendly CV plane spots an enemy minikaze (assume that the minikaze has a view range of 16km) at 24km. You would not be surface detected at 15km, but if you shoot your guns, the gun "bloom" will cause you to be detected  by the minikaze cause you are within its 16km view range.

 

But if you shot at 24km, it cannot see you even though the bloom goes out to 25km as it can only "see" up to 16km. However, say if there was also an enemy kongo next to that minikaze with a clear line of sight to you (i.e. no islands in the way), then both the enemy minikaze and the kongo will see you as the enemy kongo also has a 25km view range.

thanks for the explanation - I get that.

 

now the only missing variable is the view range?

where can I see ships' view ranges?

[nambr9]

3 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

where can I see ships' view ranges

 

That information is kinda hidden.

At least I did not find any sources where the information would be listed when I searched for it...

 

But in the end, the information is not that relevant. Might seem to you now, but It isn't.

[pra3y]

45 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

thanks for the explanation - I get that.

 

now the only missing variable is the view range?

where can I see ships' view ranges?

I can't find it  

 

But like what @nambr9 said it isn't really that useful/important. In the heat of the battle I don't think its good to calculate too much and try to do long range sniping without getting spotted. Too tedious IMO.

 

FYI though as you progress further down the tier, at tier 8 you get access to slot 5 upgrades, there is one called the target acquistion mod 1 which, among other things, increases the view range (if im not wrong). But concealment mod is always more useful 

 

Edit: According to wows the view range depend on the height of the ship's mast. The taller the mast the further the view.

[DFens_666]

4 hours ago, pra3y said:

Edit: According to wows the view range depend on the height of the ship's mast. The taller the mast the further the view.

 

Shima can see 20km because of its torps

[pra3y]

53 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Shima can see 20km because of its torps

Yamato has an epic 35km view range, being the tallest ship in game 

 

Wonder who the shortest ship is. Maybe WG can introduce a Halloween mode where you can only see up to 3km around the ship (No way beyond that with skills or modules). Will be pretty interesting. 

[HassenderZerhacker]

10 hours ago, nambr9 said:

 

That information is kinda hidden.

At least I did not find any sources where the information would be listed when I searched for it...

 

But in the end, the information is not that relevant. Might seem to you now, but It isn't.

 

9 hours ago, pra3y said:

I can't find it  

 

But like what @nambr9 said it isn't really that useful/important. In the heat of the battle I don't think its good to calculate too much and try to do long range sniping without getting spotted. Too tedious IMO.

 

FYI though as you progress further down the tier, at tier 8 you get access to slot 5 upgrades, there is one called the target acquistion mod 1 which, among other things, increases the view range (if im not wrong). But concealment mod is always more useful 

 

Edit: According to wows the view range depend on the height of the ship's mast. The taller the mast the further the view.

 

okay...

many better players hide behind islands to snipe unseen, but doing the same when not behind an island is too tedious.

 

when I'm out with my Gorizia, I actually use that spotter plane.

the SAP shells do nice damage when they fall vertically on ships with weak deck armor.

 

it's kind of hilarious though, isn't it?

spotted or not - that depends on a hidden secret stat.

not only that, but putting a plane in the air magically improves the guns' firing range.

and despite doing the same boom, firing further also causes your ship to be detected from further away.

GG wargaming, as always, your game mechanics don't disappoint. Wheeled vehicles anyone?

[HassenderZerhacker]

20 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

well actually it does, its working as intended. We used to have stealth firing back in the days (you could shoot further than you were spotted after shooting).

If this wouldnt change while using a spotter plane, we still would have ships that could be undetected after they shot.

we still have this - people hide in smoke or behind islands.

actually, many of the better players hide behind islands to shoot undetected. not sure why the possibility to fire the guns in the open undetected, which is high risk if getting the spotting ranges wrong, is such a no-no.

[MagicMooby]

Am 3.2.2020 um 15:42, HassenderZerhacker sagte:

we still have this - people hide in smoke or behind islands.

actually, many of the better players hide behind islands to shoot undetected. not sure why the possibility to fire the guns in the open undetected, which is high risk if getting the spotting ranges wrong, is such a no-no.

Because firing from stealth behind an island has a couple of very important downsides:

-it requires an island to stay behind that you can shoot over. This excludes a number of ships and a number of maps as well

-it requires someone to spot for you so you cannot do it on your own

-it forces you to stay in 1 spot. Enemies always know roughly where you are and they can avoid or flank you if needed. Your range is also limited and you aren't particularly mobile while doing it

 

Smoke shares some of these weaknesses. Smoke has the added benefit that you can deploy it wherever you want but you only get a few charges with a cooldown between them

 

Stealthfiring had none of these weaknesses which is why it was removed

[RAHJAILARI]

On 2/2/2020 at 6:26 PM, HassenderZerhacker said:

I noticed today that when I am using a spotter plane and fire further than my normal range I got spotted by my target, but if I fire without active spotter plane, and an enemy is at the same distance, I don't get spotted.

 

Is this a bug?

Hmmh... Lad, this does not necessarily mean, that the target ship itself has spotted you in either case. This means that SOMEONE, anyone really, withing that shooting range has spotted you. There could be another enemy ship to you flank, which is outside of your normal gun range, but still within your extended range. OR it could be that you are firing from absolute maximum normal range of your guns, while simultaneously moving away from the target, in which case you can also remain unspotted while firing (IF the target ship keeps following you) but will become visible immediately after you launch the spotter plane, which extends the gun range just enoungh so that the enemy ship is well withing the extended gun range and able to spot you.

[Echo_519]

You can see the spotting range in battle when pressing "H". Not really hidden....

[TheBrut3]

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection#Spotting_range

[Hugh_Ruka]

On 2/3/2020 at 10:28 AM, DFens_666 said:

 

Shima can see 20km because of its torps

afaik no ... the max view range of any DD is about 17km ...

[Donar79]

Vor 3 Minuten, Hugh_Ruka sagte:

afaik no ... the max view range of any DD is about 17km ...

I would doubt that...but i am not sure either.

[Hugh_Ruka]

Just now, Donar79 said:

I would doubt that...but i am not sure either.

I do remember a video from iChase or some othe CC about the Asashio where he showed that the ship can torp further than his view range ... and Asashio has 20km torps iirc ...

[Donar79]

Am 3.2.2020 um 15:42, HassenderZerhacker sagte:

we still have this - people hide in smoke or behind islands.

actually, many of the better players hide behind islands to shoot undetected. not sure why the possibility to fire the guns in the open undetected, which is high risk if getting the spotting ranges wrong, is such a no-no.

Because there is no counterplay besides getting dark and do nothing. Stealth firing was bad by design.

But since there are CVs they could reintroduce it to suck out the rest of fun that is left...

[Donar79]

Vor 5 Minuten, Hugh_Ruka sagte:

I do remember a video from iChase or some othe CC about the Asashio where he showed that the ship can torp further than his view range ... and Asashio has 20km torps iirc ...

Don't have Asashio but this is absolutely possible. But i doubt that T5-7 DDs for example have that 17km vision range.

[Hugh_Ruka]

Just now, Donar79 said:

Don't have Asashio but this is absolutely possible. But i doubt that T5-7 DDs for example have that 17km vision range.

@TheBrut3 already linked the relevant wiki article. View/spotting range depends on ship height (how high above sea level the highest point on the ship is, or the observation point).