Operation Killer Whale - a Tactical Challenge for the Tactically Challenged?

[Procrastes]

First off: I like this Operation. I enjoy the feel of being on the offensive, of conducting a daring naval raid in the good old "hit and run" buccaneering tradition (although the likes of Drake and Henry Morgan

would have taken a dim view of the lack of plunder and pillage). So well done to Wargaming, for this!

 

Secondly, a disclaimer: As should hopefully be obvious from the following text, I am one of the "tactically challenged" ones to whom the title refers. Even after more than five years of playing this game, I seem to remain, at heart, something of a well-meaning noob. 

 

With this out of the way, on to the main subject.

 

As anyone would know who has spent time fighting through operation Killer Whale in the past, it has certain built-in obstacles. These have mostly to do with the requirement that as soon at the first phase of the operation is complete - the raid on the harbour area and the destruction of those enemy forces found within - the players are expected to make an exit through one of two possible areas, one located to the west and the other to the north. This second phase, which is set on a timer, includes a number of secondary objectives in the form of options to sink certain incoming enemy ships. There is no bonus (other than xp and personal satisfaction) for sinking ships other than those specially designated, and there is indeed no option to win by sinking all incoming ships - enemies will continue to appear in wave after wave until either all players are sunk, or the countdown timer runs out.

 

In order to complete the operation, at least half of the remaining player ships must reach the exit area. Which exit area it is - the one in the west or the one in the north - is not determined until the second phase of the operation is triggered.

 

In this phase, there are a number of things that can, and all too often will, go wrong.

 

• Players may not realize that they are required to make an exit at all. These players will instead happily engage the wave after wave of incoming enemies, until they are all sunk or the exit timer runs out (which, unless enough players make it to the exit, fails the operation).
• Players who are aware of the exit requirement, may still not realize that the exit area is subject to change. These players will hare off towards the exit they went through last time, and will typically resist any and all efforts by their despairing team mates to get them to head in the proper direction (which, unless enough players go the right way, again fails the operation).
• Players who do realize when and where they are supposed to exit, may still be tempted to stay and engage the continuous waves of incoming enemies, some of which are - quite nefariously, to make a personal observation - designated as juicy secondary objectives. One fairly efficient but somewhat counter-intuitive tactic for dealing with these secondary objectives and still keep the time limit - namely for a player to ram the designated target and thus complete the objective while at the same time facilitating the task of getting half of the remaining ships to the exit - has yet to occur to the majority of players. (It didn't occur to me until Jingles pointed it out in a video.)

 

During my last Killer Whale excursion, I set forth in the Admiral Graf Spee. I regard her (him?) as a good choice for this operation, since her battleship-caliber guns are excellent for wiping out the land forts, and her torpedoes come in handy for dealing with those enemy ships that for some reason won't oblige you by accepting any hits to their citadel. I had a number of battleships and cruisers in my team as well, one Ark Royal and - thankfully - no destroyers. So I figured that we were off to a good start.

 

Halfway through the harbour area, two of our cruisers had already died to fire from those ships found inside. This left me and our two battleships to deal with the remaining enemy ships, while our carrier kept himself busy by firing rockets (not bombs or torpedoes - rockets) at the moored battleship. I went in pretty close for my torpedo runs - those bot ships seem to have a knack for knowing exactly where and when you drop your torpedoes - and by the time we were finished with all this, I was at less than a quarter health and with only one heal remaining.

 

The second phase saw most of us starting to go for a somewhat belated journey to the west (the correct exit area, as it were). However, when we neared the entrance to the harbour area and some enemy destroyers and cruisers turned up, everyone but me and one battleship decided to turn back inside. The carrier started dropping torpedoes (not bombs or rockets - torpedoes) on the destroyers, and then proceeded to go for the north side of the map (maybe he had some relatives over there; your guess is as good as mine). My accompanying battleship was sunk by torpedoes from the enemy destroyers, and after having dealt with what remained of them I had nowhere near enough health left to make any headway out of the harbour area (not that it would have made any difference at that point). I managed to sink an incoming Ishizuchi with a lucky torpedo spread that hit home right after I had been sunk by the last salvo from said ship, and about fifteen seconds later the timer ran out and we lost (yes, I was late in starting the retreat as well; no one did much good in this battle). So that, as they say, was that.

 

Please note that this is not a rant. I was having fun the whole time, from the intrepid charge at the beginning to the ignominious defeat at the end. I regard this whole sorry episode as a learning experience, and part of what I learned was that those operations that run the most smoothly, are not necessarily the most memorable.*

 

When I get home tonight, I shall have to try this operation out again with my newly acquired British heavy cruiser, the Devonshire. I expect her to sink like a stone, which will make a fitting statement on this, the last day of England as a member of the European Union. There are many of us who will be sad to see her go.

 

Cheers!

 

 

* Just look at the "One Bridge Too Far" movie from 1977, or any of the films of Quentin Tarantino for that matter.**

** When they make a movie out this particular Operation Killer Whale, I want my character to be played by Sir Michael Caine.***

*** With the same complete lack of anything remotely resembling a German accent, as when he portrayed Oberst Kurt Steiner in "The Eagle Has Landed" from 1976.****

**** The new movie shall be called, "The Eagle Has Stranded."

 

[Verblonde]

FWIW I quite like the fact that you don't know which exit is going to pop up; it helps delay the Op getting stale - if it were exactly the same sequence, it might get dull sooner.

 

That said, Narai doesn't vary much (at all?), and I still enjoy playing that, albeit in different ships...

[MagicMooby]

In my experience operations get easier with each day as new players learn how to play them

 

It can still be a bit frustrating though to lose the easiest of all operations

yesterday one of my teams lost due to a timeout because our BBs were too scared to leave the harbor :/

 

at least in Killer Whale one or two bad players are not nearly as bad as they would be in Defeat at naval station Newport 

[Procrastes]

29 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

FWIW I quite like the fact that you don't know which exit is going to pop up; it helps delay the Op getting stale - if it were exactly the same sequence, it might get dull sooner.

 

I agree! Seeing a bunch of ambitious scallywags sailing off into the sunset in search for Lost Valusia adds a certain something to the mood of the battle, or wouldn't you say? "Will they realize that their quest is vain and turn back, or will they die on a far shore and leave their comrades in a numerical position to declare victory? Don't miss the next episode of "Captain Clueless", coming soon to a theatre near you!"

 

29 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

That said, Narai doesn't vary much (at all?), and I still enjoy playing that, albeit in different ships...

 

Narai doesn't vary at all, as far as I know. But there may of course be some minor randomness, such as to which bot ships appear from which positions, that I simply have failed to notice.

 

But on that note, I think there has been one fairly recent change to general bot behaviour, at least in operations: A bot ship that suffers heavy damage, does sometimes slow down or turn back from an on-going attack. I noticed it first in Newport, and then later in the current Killer Whale. This is the first I have seen of something like this, and I think it's a nifty bit of AI programming - it adds to the illusion of fighting "real" enemies.

 

It was of course an embarrassing moment for humanity - or at least the part of humanity that forms the WoWs player base* - when Wargaming found themselves compelled to lessen the effectiveness of bot ships in coop mode, "because with bots of the same level of skill displayed by bots in operations, battles in coop became too hard and wins became much rarer".

 

* Again with the disclaimer: This, too, is intended as self-irony.

[DanSilverwing]

If you play with a Random team, and you know what needs to be done, prepare to have to do much of the work yourself.

 

Bad players make any of three classic mistakes: shooting base buildings early, shooting cargo ships early, and going in so deep they're no damn good to anybody in the second stage.

 

Unfortunately shooting civilians is handsomely rewarded in xp and credits, as the bad players are well aware. And so they want those for themselves as quickly as possible, rest of the team be dammed.

 

Then the other common mistake is not being in a position to stop the first wave of reinforcements entering the base. Again, going in too far.

 

If you have a fast battleship (like Normandie) you can get away with that, but slower ships only need to be in far enough to be able to shoot the Konig Albert (1) and the Konig (2) before turning around and heading out to the north-left.

 

Exit zones are randoms, but timings are fixed. If you can learn what ships are going to spawn at specific times and in specific places you can ace this Op easily. If I have time I'll edit later to include those.

 

Also, I think it's better to match the ships to the roles you have to play:

 

In Leander, go to the south entrance; deal with the G-101, the Kolberg, and the Nassau, before lining up single torps on the Konig at max range. Then scoot out again through the same exit, don't wait to be told. You can catch the V-25 soon after it spawns, and also the Wakatake, before the Kolberg (first reinforcement phase) actually spawns. Regardless of which exit zone is actually picked you have the best ship with the best tools to accomplish that. Also you can loiter around there to nuke the 3rd and 4th waves as they spawn.

 

If using a heavier ship, particularly when I was grinding up Trento, go through the Northern entrance, and then go north to intercept the Kolberg that spawns there coming south. The Kaiser can also be dealt with, but better to wait until he moves south where you can ambush away from his mates. Otherwise torpedo salvos can and will be dodged, and if he starts running away to the East you'll probably fail to nail him.

 

Edit1: if you see a green Farragut not listed in the team line-up, try to keep him alive until the end.

[DeviousDave02]

 

7 hours ago, Procrastes said:

 This left me and our two battleships to deal with the remaining enemy ships, while our carrier kept himself busy by firing rockets (not bombs or torpedoes - rockets) at the moored battleship.

 

The carrier started dropping torpedoes (not bombs or rockets - torpedoes) on the destroyers, and then proceeded to go for the north side of the map (maybe he had some relatives over there; your guess is as good as mine).

As an Ark Royal CV main this made me hold my head in my hands and cry at the sheer incompetence on display here.

 

Using Rocket fighters on a BB when you have Torp bombers and Level bombers ready - Heresy

Losing enough planes to NOT have TB or LB ready by the time you hit the harbored ships - DOUBLE HERESY

Not heading to the exit as a CV - So much Heresy!

 

Not that he used torps on the DD's (I do that too)  but that from the fact you mentioned it means he totally miffed the drop - EXTRA HERESY!

 

[Cucu_a_Gumizsiraf]

That's why I prefer to play Ryujo on this operation - makes compensating for bad teammates and carrying games much more easier. :) 

 

Today's game: https://replayswows.com/replay/77946#stats

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

[Captain_82]

1 hour ago, Cucu_a_Gumizsiraf said:

That's why I prefer to play Ryujo on this operation - makes compensating for bad teammates and carrying games much more easier. :)

 

Indeed.

 

Yesterdays operation.

 

The Fuso (the one with 614 base) did an "excellent" job. Camping right next to the left island just below the northern exit for most of the second stage (we had the western exit to reach) ... maybe he went afk, who knows.
So, I had to do the job again.

 

Luckily, I received another Major Contribution.

 

I had the impression right from the start that my team was uncertain what to do. Or how to do it.

Took them ages to kill the Karlsruhe.

But that was just my impression.

After all, the Trento for instance did quite well with almost 1400 base.

 

[NothingButTheRain]

This operation is probably my favorite operation to play, the one I enjoy the most.

I can do well in any ship but I like this one with carrier the most. Been playing KW with carrier from long before the rework.

 

A win is not guaranteed. 5 stars is probable provided you do get a win (often it will be a 4 star due to exiting too early or a ship entering the port) but this one is actually carryable as a solo player as long as the rest of the team is at least decent.

 

Ryujo and Ranger are my favorites here, but Furious can also have some nice games though usually I don't perform this well with her.

 

All my teammates here received a +1 from me except the prematurely exploded Nürnberg 

Spoiler

 

[DFens_666]

15 hours ago, MagicMooby said:

In my experience operations get easier with each day as new players learn how to play them 

 

Hehe, you wish

Operations used to be awesome like 2 years ago. I could play Solo and get comfortably 5 stars in any. I dont play Solo Ops anymore. In fact, i stopped playing most of them, as with a team, i can just play Narai whenever i want which is much more fun and yields better rewards than the T6 OPs.

And thats half the problem: Most good OPs players stopped playing random OPs i assume. They rather farm with a team and get guaranteed 5 Stars. And it might be, that the decent average player isnt interested or also stopped, because the good players dont play them anymore, leaving only the worst players to constantly play them. And thats just a desaster...

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

Indeed, this Op, as a "solo player", is a "cv must" if you want to be sure for a win.

I agree the Ryujo  is, by far , THE best ship here: an extra TB (compared with Furious) AND much more dam. for each torpedo hit, make Ryujo a true "bots eraser";

 

Is common rule to see any decent cv here top score, with "major contribution".

For me,  the first move is always to fast kill that cruiser sitting on F line alone, at the entrance on Harbor - you have some 2 minutes to kill him, right on start, since that bot will stay there idle, perfect target for your torps, first 2 minutes: 

so I fly my Tb left a bit, pass the fort on left and then I turn right and drop on him first torps, and one more drop, immediately, from other side. With Ryujo I can kill him in just 2 runs ( 4 torps), with Furious I need 3 runs.

Like that, the guys on team can rush in port without dealing with the annoying bot spamming HE like a MG - and the guys in dd manage to enter immediately.

 

Right after I go to Nassau, again with torps - Always TORPS ! - and I kill her, than I move on those 2 bbs, and usually I am over 100k dam before next stage pops-in,

I am always near A1 point, with a wing of TB, ( where first bb target spam) when the first bb target come, so I can put 6-8 torps on her with first wing, and the next one, 1 min. later, is enough to finish her.

Immediately after I return near A1 where the second bb target come, I kill her using the same strategy ( is far easier to torp them right on spamming point, when they do not maneuver a lot) -

and by doing this, the team have no incentives to go near since are no other main targets aside that pair of cruiser+bb coming from N.

 

Usually any decent bb will easily deal with them, if not, I have more than enough planes to help there ( I do not lost a single plane thus far, so the reserve pool is full...).

Getting out , to the N exit, is the "easy option", even with a bad team.

The other exit, to the E, is far more complicated if the team fails, since you must pass near of dds, cruisers, and even bbs spamming point, and you will take fire ( HE, AP AND torps) from all of them.

If the team is down to only 2-3 guys, the E exit will be a hard exit - the N exit can be done even alone, once you are far more protected and you only need to enter exit circle, you just need at least 1hp to touch that exit and you are out.

 

To conclude, is a cv Op., you can get nice credits, Xp, level your commanders, etc, and, true, is no excuse, for a cv, to fail the first place on tab.

A decent cv ( I am between decent and potato myself !) MUST have something between 200 - 300k dam. on this Op, and end the Op first place with major contrib.

 

If the cv player is not there, he/she is worse than a potato.

[Procrastes]

I'd say that the quality of team work in operations is wildly inconsistent. Sometimes you can work your behind off like a rat on speed and still get it handed back to you on toast for a total loss, because your trusty allies couldn't be bothered to compensate for your inadequacies put two sticks together - and then the next match rolls through like clockwork with a 5-star win after a team performance that could have been scripted by Alistair Maclean. Newport and Killer Whale are probably a bit more dependent on good team work than many of the others, though, which makes its absence equally more painful.

 

I tried out the Devonshire in Killer Whale yesterday night, by the way, just as I said I would. She works really well in that operation, or at least she did for me. Her guns will absolutely smash those land forts, and they work equally well against enemy ships (although battleships are best burned down at range). Her single-shot torpedo launchers let you make short work of the moored battleship, and in a pinch they can deal with free-ranging huns as well. Your heal and your hydro give you some much-needed staying power in the torpedo-laden and high explosive-rich environment of the later phase. All in all a nice little ship!

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

18 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I'd say that the quality of team work in operations is wildly inconsistent. Sometimes you can work your behind off like a rat on speed and still get it handed back to you on toast for a total loss, because your trusty allies couldn't be bothered to compensate for your inadequacies put two sticks together - and then the next match rolls through like clockwork with a 5-star win after a team performance that could have been scripted by Alistair Maclean. Newport and Killer Whale are probably a bit more dependent on good team work than many of the others, though, which makes its absence equally more painful.

Killer Whale is like an easy ride in  the park,  if you go on a cv - you can simply carry the team far easier ; Newport, on other hand.... as a cv, you simply do not have the RoF and dam. output to hold on the crazy rushing, bow-in, bots.

If the team loose 1-2 guys right on start ( and that is common, sadly...) you can be sure you will get screw.

Newport is a cruiser made Op. - Leander, Nurmberg, Budi, Dallas, Huanghe, even - fast fire cruisers - are the best, some dds also can shine ( like Aigle), those dds who can cit cruisers at 4-6km, but bbs and cvs, in Newport , are not so great.

Killer W.. on other hand, favor Cv.s and, most important, allow a decent cv. to carry the team - even a bad team - far more effective than you can carry on Narai.

I will say, for a solo player, you make much easier credits in KW than in Narai, just because the randomness of bad teams in Newport can screw you a lot easier  than in K Whale.

 

I wish WG value a lot more the Ops, especially with the curent meta, who make the T8-9-10 so boring and such a crappy HE spamming fest,  with the utterly failure of Cv. reeeework ,  when more and more peoples return to Ops in order to have some decent fun... Instead, Ops are pulled out, in a WG move like a slap on the face...

 

Oh, and Alistar Maclean - probably my favorite author when it comes to sea warfare... I read HMS Ulysses some 40 years ago, still fresh on my mind... what a book !

[Procrastes]

9 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

Oh, and Alistar Maclean - probably my favorite author when it comes to sea warfare... I read HMS Ulysses some 40 years ago, still fresh on my mind... what a book !

"The Tirpitz. The very name could not be spoken without evoking a feeling of awe and dread... She was moving out at last, an armoured Colossus, sister ship of that other Steel Titan that had destroyed the Hood with a single, savage blow. Mighty Hood, darling of the Royal Navy and the most powerful warship in the world - or so men had thought. What chance had their little cockle-shell cruiser?"

[Captain_Newman]

It always depressed me to see how many people seem incapable of understanding the mission goal that states "half the OPERATIONAL ships need to reach the exit on time".

 

I'll never forget when too many of my team yoloed off too far from the exit to make it in time (despite pings and explanations in chat), so we were 2 in exit zone (myself and div mate), 3 of them on the other side of the map. One of our BB's is low, however, and he's just been set on fire. We ask him to suicide in order to win the op (it would have brought the number of operational ships down to 4, instantly triggering a win). What does this genius do 30s before the game ends? Fixes fires and triggers a heal.

 

Any comments on this amazing feat of 5 dimensional chess gameplay are entirely redundant. What an absolute genius.

[DeviousDave02]

2 hours ago, Captain_Newman said:

It always depressed me to see how many people seem incapable of understanding the mission goal that states "half the OPERATIONAL ships need to reach the exit on time".

What's funny is I always get the exact opposite problem where all the team flee like a startled rabbit who's just encountered a Smolensk and had his butt set on fire...

 

While two thirds of the secondary target ships are still alive. leaving me (the CV) to desperately attempt to sink 2+ BB's, a Cruiser and usually a DD on my own before they reach the exit.

 

TBH i have usually good luck with this OP and the teams I get, just now had an amazing team who all worked together and called out priority targets but came out with 4 stars due to massively bad luck involving a DD that WOULD NOT DIE! (seriously not joking here, at one point the damn thing looked like it had deployed smoke due to water splashes from the sheer amount of shells and bombs that landed around it from both BB's, three Cruisers, the DD and my level bombers hitting it at the same time)

 

Edit: And my very next game has a group who do this... I really should have kept my gob shut =(

[Procrastes]

2 hours ago, Captain_Newman said:

It always depressed me to see how many people seem incapable of understanding the mission goal that states "half the OPERATIONAL ships need to reach the exit on time".

 

I'll never forget when too many of my team yoloed off too far from the exit to make it in time (despite pings and explanations in chat), so we were 2 in exit zone (myself and div mate), 3 of them on the other side of the map. One of our BB's is low, however, and he's just been set on fire. We ask him to suicide in order to win the op (it would have brought the number of operational ships down to 4, instantly triggering a win). What does this genius do 30s before the game ends? Fixes fires and triggers a heal.

 

Any comments on this amazing feat of 5 dimensional chess gameplay are entirely redundant. What an absolute genius.

 

A most vexing sequence of events, I agree. Although to be fair, suiciding for the benefit of the team is a bit counter-intuitive, and hitting the repair/heal buttons can become something of a reflex action after having played this game for a few years. I remember that time not so long ago, when I only just barely dodged a torpedo in operation Newport, and it passed right underneath my stern...

...and sank the Raptor...

...and I didn't even have time to write an apology in the chat before the game ended in defeat. Not my proudest moment.

 

What I am trying to say here, is that my guess would be that the battleship player in your game didn't act out of a deliberate intent to sabotage of the mission requirements and throw the match. He may have done this, of course, but I generally try to assume the best where there is room for doubt.

 

There isn't always room for doubt. There was a Killer Whale game about two years ago, where the primary and all secondary objectives had been completed, the clock was ticking down the last 30 seconds, and a Bayern that was sort of loitering about just outside the exit area but still going in the right direction, was asked in chat - politely, mind you - to please go to the exit?

 

He stopped, and then started backing away. The clock ticked down and the operation failed.

 

The lengths to which some people are prepared to go in order to demonstrate their own special brand of independence. Or maybe that Bayern player was just a bitter and spiteful little basement troll. I don't know and I don't care. If we let these things get to us, we probably shouldn't play online PvP games to begin with.

 

Swapping stories like these, however, counts as entertainment therapy, and that is surely a good thing...?

[Captain_Newman]

3 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

Swapping stories like these, however, counts as entertainment therapy, and that is surely a good thing...?

 

That's a good way to describe it 

[wavijunk]

5 hours ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

For me,  the first move is always to fast kill that cruiser sitting on F line alone, at the entrance on Harbor - you have some 2 minutes to kill him, right on start, since that bot will stay there idle, perfect target for your torps, first 2 minutes: 

 

See thats an idea I hadn't thought of...

 

When I play CV in this OP I always head for the Nassau first and sink him, then the other BB's before heading to the spawn at A1 with TB's.

 

Doing this first hadn't occured to me so thanks for that I'll give it a go next time I'm on..

 

 

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

You kill him fast then you go for Nassau, like that you "clean the road" for your team :)

If you get at him fast, in first 2 min, he stays idle - is just target practice - for 3 torpedo runs !

[Johnny_Moneto]

Take a B hull Nürnberg.

Shoot at the first couple of forts until they are gone. Then ignore anything inside the harbour and move to A1. With a bit of experience you will know the exact position. As soon as Kawachi spawns alongsside of you sent 6 torps to kill her. Then shoot the Wakate.

Afterwards the V-25 will arrive from the south and also the Kolberg. Shoot both to death, AP might be the right choice against the Kolberg. Don't sail towards them, you wanna stay in the upper left corner, just dodge in that area. Nürnberg has 360º aft turret rotation.

Reposition yourself for killing the Ishizuchi much the same way as you killed the Kawachi before. Then use AP on the Tenryu to finish her off.

 

Basically then your good deeds are done, any thing beyond that is bonus.

 

While at first your team will think you are a moron, you will have accomplished the following:

- kill 5 of the ships for secondary objectives

- prevent the 2 DDs from entering the harbour or even torping your team mates

- get around 1800 base XP

=> easy win

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

Twinkle twinkle little star, how I wonder five you are.

 

 

Yes, I know, I am special!

 

[Erinnyes2000]

Yesterday, I was in the P.E.F. (KM premium BB). I went in the south entrance. The Nurnburg (KM light cruiser) decided that he wanted me to be first and went behind me. Do I need to elaborate on what happened?

Now, when you get a team that knows what to do and listens to each other, this op is fairly easy.

WHEN you get a team that listens...

[invicta2012]

On 1/31/2020 at 6:24 PM, Johnny_Moneto said:

While at first your team will think you are a moron, you will have accomplished the following:

- kill 5 of the ships for secondary objectives

- prevent the 2 DDs from entering the harbour or even torping your team mates

- get around 1800 base XP

=> easy win

Where's the fun in that, though? If I was looking to farm Tier VI or some directive I suppose it might be worthwhile, but I actually quite like the random aspects of Ops. They have some of the frustrations of a random match but enough of a possiblity of hauling it all back even if your fellow players are numpties.

[Rhineheart_Thor]

1 hour ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Twinkle twinkle little star, how I wonder five you are.

 

 

Yes, I know, I am special!

 

 

Jar, Me 2

 

Very special, wounder if this will start a " I am Special Arms Race "   

 

 

Total Commitment.......