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Siegfried balance Discussion

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It's me again expressing my ideas once again this time Siegfried

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First Why Siegfried or O class cruiser designed?

Design started in 1937, Intended to use as Commerce raider. Design was coming from Deutschland class cruiser principal, fight enemy cruisers and run away from battleships. Her design changed from P class cruisers and 3 ship ordered in 1939 but none started due to resource shortage.

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O class battlecruiser, Siegfried as we all know German T9 large/battlecruiser of German tech tree and WG has trouble on balancing her and here i am, I gonna start discussion to balance her, mostly because i am obsessed with Siegfried even though she's mediocre at best. I'll start with her problems down below.

I never tested the ship so some stuff might be weird.

Problems of Siegfried

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-1st problem her damage output is very low compared against other cruisers of her tier. 6 380 mm for cruiser maybe a large caliber but T8 to T10 ships can mediate the dmg quite easily. Those guns has 26 second reload which is same as JB and FDG.

-Her bow and aft is big and unarmored which can be pen by any high tier BB. Her armor is very weird by that reason.

-HE is very mediocre,normal for German ship but again with slow rate of fire decreasing her DMG. AP is awesome as German AP is very great but has normal AP pen angles.

These are problems i can found right now

I wanna compare her against other ship with similar task of her

First ship i wanna compare her against is Republique,I know it is dumb to compare these two to each other but hear me out know.

Siegfried fast battlecruiser with large gun caliber designed to destroy cruisers.

Republique Fast battleship with 331 mm main artillery to pen 30 mm armor so she's one of the perfect cruiser killers.

both is fast,both is well gunned,both has great Maneuverability(didn't played republique but she's fine in speed)

so these 2 is awesome to compare agains even though one is cruiser other is T10 BB but both has similar task in my opinion , blowing cruisers

but what's downside when we compare these two is-

 

Siegfried has 26 second-Republique has 24 second which Siegfried has 23 second best, Republique has 20 second as best reload. I can only compare guns tho because of their task is similar and she's only large cruiser with 380 mm.

 

Second Compare is Stalingrad, T10 Large cruiser 

I'm going to compare their armor especially mid and bow armor. Stalingrad has 50 mm ice break steel/armor and mid section. Siegfried has 90 mm armor and no bow armor only 27 mm. These two is heavily armored ship but Stalingrad Mediate most damage from bow due to that Ice breaker steel. But Siegfried can't do it although that 90 mm is very powerful against most AP and HE but bow is too big and unarmored it takes citadels very easily.

I know i talked a lot-

My idea of reworking her

-Decrease Reload of main battery from 26 to 24.

-Change mid armor from 90 to 50.

-Increase 30 mm deck to 50 mm(not very important).

-Add bow ice break steel of 40 mm to cover that giant but weak citadel.

-Decrease range of main battery to 19.1 or 18.5 for balancing her tanking ability.

Ending

These might make her more balanced and will have clear counters like other large cruisers HE and some heavy cruiser HE. but will still have that Maneuver armor to bounce large BB guns and bow armor will not take much space on bow but will take atleast 1 meter high from water to pretend those citadels. 

This is my idea to rebalance her and i want to have her in game badly right now, I'm obsessed with this ship. Anyway give your idea to improve her performance. I'm out.

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I don't care for Siegfried or any of those ships to be released but I commend your effort and gave you a thumbs up because unlike me u deserve them. 

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I would decrease the reload to 22 secs myself and maybe increase her secondary base range to 8.5 or whatever to give her more of a memey brawling build.

Otherwise those suggestions would actually make sense for her to a be brawling cruiser, she seems more of a cruiser killer than bb brawler or slayer by any margin atm.

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I suspect they've basically shelved Siegfried in favour of the Ägir design which is more similar to the other supercruisers.

 

It would be a bit of a shame, though. I like the concept of the Siegfried, and I hope they can get her to work, simply because she seems like an interesting ship that I think could be fun to play with the right tweaks.

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6 dakika önce, Uglesett dedi:

I suspect they've basically shelved Siegfried in favour of the Ägir design which is more similar to the other supercruisers.

 

It would be a bit of a shame, though. I like the concept of the Siegfried, and I hope they can get her to work, simply because she seems like an interesting ship that I think could be fun to play with the right tweaks.

Aegir might not work either due to armor scheme is same as Siegfried, they said they used same hull as Siegfried. that bow is too big and unarmored. And yeah Siegfried is interesting ship and yeah she can be fun with right tweaks.

 

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10 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

I suspect they've basically shelved Siegfried in favour of the Ägir design which is more similar to the other supercruisers.

 

It would be a bit of a shame, though. I like the concept of the Siegfried, and I hope they can get her to work, simply because she seems like an interesting ship that I think could be fun to play with the right tweaks.

Ahh that is a shame, the caliber made her a very unique supercruiser indeed. Oh well hopefully aegir won't be so bog standard and will have more attributes assigned to her to increase her desire to be played with.

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22 minutes ago, Ygtozkn1903 said:

I know i talked a lot-

My idea of reworking her

-Decrease Reload of main battery from 26 to 24.

-Change mid armor from 90 to 50.

-Increase 30 mm deck to 50 mm(not very important).

-Add bow ice break steel of 40 mm to cover that giant but weak citadel.

-Decrease range of main battery to 19.1 or 18.5 for balancing her tanking ability.

 

From the feedback we got, she performs fine. No need for preemptive changes.

  • this is only a small change and should be ok
  • that is not how the ship was designed, therefore no
  • 50mm would be historcal, therefore ok, but maybe that makes her too strong
  • anything more than 30mm plating would be weird
  • you are proposing some micro changes without really knowing her detailed performance
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Rather then Agir i like to get Odin more- Odin has better range,Better armor,smaller size,spotter or fighter plane choice ,better secondaries,similar AA.

 

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37 minutes ago, Ygtozkn1903 said:

 

Republique Fast battleship with 331 mm main artillery

 


I think you mean 431mm main artillery.

 

Alas, I was really excited for the Siegfried.

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11 dakika önce, ColonelPete dedi:

From the feedback we got, she performs fine. No need for preemptive changes.

  • this is only a small change and should be ok
  • that is not how the ship was designed, therefore no
  • 50mm would be historcal, therefore ok, but maybe that makes her too strong
  • anything more than 30mm plating would be weird
  • you are proposing some micro changes without really knowing her detailed performance

-decreasing range was for balance her armor change if it happens

-50 mm deck isn't very important like i said.

-I can't find that 90 mm armor section in Wikipedia and from other resources but it doesn't matter.

-Reload buff will be nice tho she's having same reload as JB,Georgia and FDG is just weird.Am i wrong?

- 40 mm bow armor is near water line to pretend most random citadels that she can take. 32 might work aswell actually .

 

If she's fine btw why she's not announced and Agir is announced? I'm sorry im just too obsessed with this ship.

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11 dakika önce, Zip__ dedi:


I think you mean 431mm main artillery.

 

Alas, I was really excited for the Siegfried.

Yep 431 =-=

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It seems clear that all the German super cruisers should have 50mm plating in their lower bow. They surely cannot have worse armour than the Hipper!

 

add to that a rate of fire buff. Should be 22 seconds. At tier 9 380mm  is not much better when it comes to overmatch  then 300mm.

If theplaying changes go ahead it will be light cruisers bow and stern that 300mm can’t pen but 380mm can.

 

Its just not worth the lack of dpm compared to the Alaska.

 

Hope they try it  as the Odin  and Agir seem just to similar..

 

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8 minutes ago, Ygtozkn1903 said:

If she's fine btw why she's not announced and Agir is announced? I'm sorry im just too obsessed with this ship.

Looks like I am missing something.

When is Ägir release date and where was it announced?

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5 dakika önce, ColonelPete dedi:

Looks like I am missing something.

When is Ägir release date and where was it announced?

There's no release date but she's revealed 2 weeks ago.

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14 minutes ago, Ygtozkn1903 said:

There's no release date but she's revealed 2 weeks ago.

Siegfried was revealed ("announced") some time ago. Why do you claim she is not "announced"?

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5 dakika önce, ColonelPete dedi:

Siegfried was revealed ("announced") some time ago. Why do you claim she is not "announced"?

her release date i mean, She's not getting released or there's no release date getting announced.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ygtozkn1903 said:

her release date i mean, She's not getting released or there's no release date getting announced.

The same as Ägir.

I do not see the problem.

 

WG made it clear it will be some time before we see Siegfried.

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2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

The same as Ägir.

I do not see the problem.

 

WG made it clear it will be some time before we see Siegfried.

Lets wait and see then :D

 

Before we know it they are in the armory....

 

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29.01.2020 saat 19:16'de, ColonelPete dedi:

anything more than 30mm plating would be weird

Do you remember you said more then 30 mm plating would be weird, Soviet light cruiser getting 50 mm lower bow armor.

ERPBTgbU4AEONA7.thumb.jpg.77e2d6156577dacbf4cdd2a2bc3f2010.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Ygtozkn1903 said:

Do you remember you said more then 30 mm plating would be weird, Soviet light cruiser getting 50 mm lower bow armor.

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Think he meant like having a full on 35mm bow and aft, but im surprised the light cruiser gets an icebreaker too be honest.

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13 dakika önce, CptBarney dedi:

Think he meant like having a full on 35mm bow and aft, but im surprised the light cruiser gets an icebreaker too be honest.

I think yeah he did but I'm behind my word Siegfried and Agir needs icebreak armor added. just look other German cruisers.

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@Ygtozkn1903 Never knew those ships had 40mm icebreakers, well that kinda changes things. not sure why agir and siegfried don't get one since they are advertised as 'brawling' cruisers so makes a huge amount of sense. Oh well.

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10 dakika önce, CptBarney dedi:

@Ygtozkn1903 Never knew those ships had 40mm icebreakers, well that kinda changes things. not sure why agir and siegfried don't get one since they are advertised as 'brawling' cruisers so makes a huge amount of sense. Oh well.

Idk what WGs idea about "Brawling cruiser" when they made bow large and unarmored as Nelson. It makes no sense what so ever. Because tests showed Siegfried can get 40 k damage from bow overmatch.

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2 hours ago, Ygtozkn1903 said:

Idk what WGs idea about "Brawling cruiser" when they made bow large and unarmored as Nelson. It makes no sense what so ever. Because tests showed Siegfried can get 40 k damage from bow overmatch.

Yeah they were intended for brawling due to their 'armour' (lol) and secondaries (should be a base range of 9.0km and similar accuracy to georgia and moar gunz). i mean 27mm is enough for 406's to go through i think so she will get citadelled by most bb's she meets in the game.

 

Either give them 30mm's bow and aft with 50mm icebreaker or 32mm's and thicker mid deck and belt armour.

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7 dakika önce, CptBarney dedi:

Yeah they were intended for brawling due to their 'armour' (lol) and secondaries (should be a base range of 9.0km and similar accuracy to georgia and moar gunz). i mean 27mm is enough for 406's to go through i think so she will get citadelled by most bb's she meets in the game.

 

Either give them 30mm's bow and aft with 50mm icebreaker or 32mm's and thicker mid deck and belt armour.

well bow and aft icebreak armor will fix the problem. 190 and 90 mm belt is really from design papers btw so that can't be changed. 

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