cv vs dd balance - is this being looked at at all?

[loppantorkel]

I'll just post this post from the funny pics thread:

13 hours ago, Toss_a_coin_to_your_CV said:

Poor DD life

 

 

 

Shima is down to below 1000hp within the first 2 min of the game. There are no risks involved for the cv. The dd likely had an option to smoke up after the first strike (although hits in smoke isn't uncommon). The cv is a unicum player and the strikes were probably blessed with some good RNG, but is this really balanced? Does WG recognize that there's some imbalance at hand when most classes need to hurry out for positioning and take risks to be effective, while cvs decide the battles from afar with no risks involved?

 

The issues from before the rework has come back where you mostly got a big group of bad cv players and a small group of very good, that are deciding the games they're in.

 

Given the survivability of cv, I wouldn't mind seeing a cap on the range of planes. Make them move with the rest of the fleet and give the enemy fleet a chance to move out before getting dumped on. This and remove the 'detected icon' on planes when spotted by a dd.

 

A bit of a rant, but I get the feeling WG has moved on from the cv-rework.

[Capra76]

10 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

cv vs dd balance - is this being looked at at all?

 

[Padds01]

not sure they do balance like that ,  after all DD's wouldnt be allowed the toolset they have if they were balanced against BB's a DD can throw torps at a BB all game with no risk or cost. of course the solution there is teh BB should have a DD or cruiser screening its not thier toolset to find the DD its a "team" game.

 

and thats the answer for the shima. just like BB;s had to learn to turn and change speed occasionaly. there are some likewise rudimentary things a DD needs to start doing in a CV match esp if its a British CV .

and if the shima refuses to learn any of these adaptions and refuses to timely use one of his near infinte low CD smoke screens. then yeah they are just going to keep dieing . but how many mistakes are you supposed to be able to make for free before you have to pay for them?

 

 

[ForlornSailor]

12 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

The issues from before the rework has come back where you mostly got a big group of bad cv players and a small group of very good, that are deciding the games they're in.

 

And thats the only thing holding the CV rework in "balance" - the hords of absolute useless players in CVs. I play a lot of DDs since the CV rework, it has actually become my most played class. Simply for the reason, that many decent DDs have apperently stopped playing the class, which made randoms very frustrating for me, since you need a DD to spot for your team. Impossible with the hordes of 42%ers in DDs these days, that border hump to get to the CV or sit in the smoke, waitig that somebody spots for them - until they die from a torp.

 

Im drifting. My point: What you see above is so rare, that It honestly has not happend to me yet. Yes, Ive met 3 or 4 super unicums while playing DD since the rework hit early 2019. Not one of them managed to kill me, eventhogh those games were horrible unfun for me. But the quota is 1:100. The other 99 games the red CV is simply no threat for you or he even straight up gifts XP to me via plane kills.

 

The experiance will/would horribly change, once WG allows CVs into f.e. clanwars. The clans with the best CV players would heavily dominate and I think we would see a shitstorm. Might be the reason, WG is so hesitant to introduce them. And if the playerbase would actually capable of l2p on a broader scale, the rework would lead to an inferno, making current T4 hell look like a childrens playground. DDs would actually be unplayable. But yea, since playerbase is the way it is - WG gets away with this rework (which has made the situation around CVs worse as in CVs are now more broken then before, just for the record - but hey, atleast BBs are having more fun now).

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

not sure they do balance like that ,  after all DD's wouldnt be allowed the toolset they have if they were balanced against BB's a DD can throw torps at a BB all game with no risk or cost. of course the solution there is teh BB should have a DD or cruiser screening its not thier toolset to find the DD its a "team" game.

 

and thats the answer for the shima. just like BB;s had to learn to turn and change speed occasionaly. there are some likewise rudimentary things a DD needs to start doing in a CV match esp if its a British CV .

and if the shima refuses to learn any of these adaptions and refuses to timely use one of his near infinte low CD smoke screens. then yeah they are just going to keep dieing . but how many mistakes are you supposed to be able to make for free before you have to pay for them? 

 

Hightier BB range: >20km basicly (or atleast 18km)

Hightier DD torprange: ~12km + Gearing 16,5 and Shima 20 (which is beyond stupid ofc)

 

BB shell flight time: ~15 sec

DD torps travel time: 40+ secs, im not entirely sure for those really long range torps, but more than a minute for sure then.

 

Even if a BB has a DD on his [edited], he can comfortbaly still play the game. Now compared to CV

 

CV range: Unlimited

CV speed vs DD speed: ~4-5x faster.

 

Even if the CV needs ~1 minute to reach the target, it can attack up to 4 times the same target. Without the RNG of BBs or the ability to just change course after Torps are in the water, which makes torps miss entirely. So within 2 minutes, CV can attack 4 times (roughly). See screenshots from OP to confirm. 2 strikes within 1.30 played.

 

Not to mention, losing planes is nowhere near risking the entire hull of a ship. Planes dead? Next squad. DD dead? Game over.

[albin322]

NO spread sheat says its fine 

[CeKyPuTo]

I have been on both sides, with DD and CV is hunting me down and myself in CV hunting DDs and dont have problem with that! As i can make DDs life miserable they can do the same to me when im with DD! 
In the current situation the CV is Audacious, which for me is the best CV to hunt and destroy DDs, if RNG is on your side you can deal massive damage with rockets, i have done 20k damage on BBs with them! One game you sh*t on them, next game they sh*t on you! Balance!

[ForlornSailor]

3 minutes ago, CeKyPuTo said:

One game you sh*t on them, next game they sh*t on you! Balance! 

 

Excuse me but who or what s***s on CVs? High tier CVs survive over 73% of the games, unlike any other ship class - and that includes YOLO CVs, that are in the cap at minute 3 aswell as those type, that cant read the matchflow and are getting caught by an advancing fleet, that stomped that flank 3 minutes earlier.

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200125/eu_week/average_class.html

 

If anything, you just showed, that there is NO balance. Matter of fact: the best CV players survive almost 95% of their games. 95 percent. They basically never die. Also fact: they survive more then during RTS times.

[Youshanai]

Looks like I had absolutely 0 counterplay availible. 

[Hugh_Ruka]

Yes it is. There's a dev blog released where they are testing fighter consumables lasting 90 seconds instead of 60 seconds ... that will definitely help ...

[Youshanai]

Vor 1 Minute, Hugh_Ruka sagte:

Yes it is. There's a dev blog released where they are testing fighter consumables lasting 90 seconds instead of 60 seconds ... that will definitely help ...

 

also I got 4 downvotes. Looks like insufficient evidence and I need to post more ★♡☆

[ForlornSailor]

5 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Yes it is. There's a dev blog released where they are testing fighter consumables lasting 90 seconds instead of 60 seconds ... that will definitely help ...

 

Thats only affecting the fighters of the CV tho ;)

[_HMS_RICHY]

So what counter does the bb have against the asashio?

 

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Thats only affecting the fighters of the CV tho ;)

Quote: Patrol fighter consumable available to carrier-based plane squadrons

 

So fighter that are dropped by the CV squadrons and are mostly used to spot DDs ... I have nothing against ship launched fighters (CA/CL/BB).

[Hugh_Ruka]

2 minutes ago, _HMS_RICHY said:

So what counter does the bb have against the asashio?

 

 

WASD ... same as any other DD ...

[_HMS_RICHY]

Just now, Hugh_Ruka said:

WASD ... same as any other DD ...

So basically none other than hoping you keep turning the right way. As the super stealthy torps turn up from nowhere.

[Aragathor]

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

I get the feeling WG has moved on from the cv-rework.

I wouldn't call it a feeling but more like a fact. But save for pushing more underwhelming premiums and screwing up balance WG  seems to have abandoned the game.

Oh well, when they push OP subs out, everyone will rejoice and uninstall.

[_HMS_RICHY]

I reckon most dd players would like a game with no radar no hydro and no cv. And maybe 3 haragumos on the enemy team while they field shimas and gearing coz balance. That's sure to test there skills to the max.

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, _HMS_RICHY said:

So what counter does the bb have against the asashio?

 

First, asashio has to go through this line:

- Possibly CV planes spotting him

- Other DDs

- Radar Cruisers

- Hydro

- Maybe BB has hydro too.

Unless you tell me, asashios constantly torp from 20 km and still devstrike any BB at will. Or what does Asashio do, if there is only Cruisers left? Bend over and die?

 

What CV has to go through when attacking a target:

- Nothing

There is nothing which will stop him from just going where he wants to go.

[Altsak]

4 minutes ago, _HMS_RICHY said:

So basically none other than hoping you keep turning the right way.

 

Yeah, it's a L2P issue. A good BB knows where and to some degree when to expect torps. I'm an ok Asashio player and good BB players make my damagenumbers suffer.

[loppantorkel]

37 minutes ago, Yoshanai said:

Looks like I had absolutely 0 counterplay availible. 

Are you in a good/unicum 3 man cv-div and facing potato cvs? I'm not sure whose point you're trying to make.

 

7 minutes ago, _HMS_RICHY said:

So what counter does the bb have against the asashio?

Do you often get reduced to 10% HP by a dd within the first 2 min of the game when playing bb? Have you ever? Is it possible? It's the potential of cvs on dds that is ridiculous. You can't honestly think there's a good comparison between these examples.

[_HMS_RICHY]

1 minute ago, Altsak said:

 

Yeah, it's a L2P issue. A good BB knows where and to some degree when to expect torps. I'm an ok Asashio player and good BB players make my damagenumbers suffer.

Strange that I have team mates who excel in the ash but not as good in other dds why's that.

[Sunleader]

24 minutes ago, Yoshanai said:

Looks like I had absolutely 0 counterplay availible. 

 

Not sure why you would Provide these Screens.

In the First Game we lost. And aside from being a Punching Bag for one of the CVs till you got Killed. The Screen does not really Show any Achievements worth mentioning.

 

The other 2 Screens are even worse.

Because they Imply that you Yoloed a Beached CV whose Team is getting Roflstomped without Resistance....

And got yourself Killed after you Torped the Beached CV.

 

 

The Double CV Game were the GZ Killed you would be a Better Choice.

There you had way more Impact despite it being a Double CV Game.

 

[loppantorkel]

2 minutes ago, _HMS_RICHY said:

Strange that I have team mates who excel in the ash but not as good in other dds why's that.

Don't worry, they're about to nerf Asashio into the ground with the new modules.

[Systergummi]

12 minutes ago, _HMS_RICHY said:

So what counter does the bb have against the asashio?

 

 

Is that really the same thing? As the Asashio is balanced around only being good against BBs. But sure it can also torp CVs. It does however suffer against DDs and Cruisers.

 

What class does CVs suffer against?