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_Conan_Librarian_

Friendly Fire- why still present in game?

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Yo.

Why we need friendly fire in game? I see no reason. WG removed friendly fire from world of tanks but kept in Wows. I must admit i "noticed" FF tday when someone from my team decided to tank my torps. Im not blaming guy, maybe he was in sniper mode, or whatever. Anyway now i am pink :/ .... hate this colour. Why we need FF? You can ram island with your ship at full speed and get no damage at all but you able to damage your team mates, intentionally or not. Switch off FF.

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10 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

Yo.

Why we need friendly fire in game? I see no reason. WG removed friendly fire from world of tanks but kept in Wows. I must admit i "noticed" FF tday when someone from my team decided to tank my torps. Im not blaming guy, maybe he was in sniper mode, or whatever. Anyway now i am pink :/ .... hate this colour. Why we need FF? You can ram island with your ship at full speed and get no damage at all but you able to damage your team mates, intentionally or not. Switch off FF.

Hello and welcome. I know right? Also fix BB damage. X24 16 k damage wtf fix. :cap_yes:

Spoiler

End sarcasm. Yo. Pink looks cool on you man.

 

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Well, friendly fire pretty much can throw a game. Once at the start of the battle our BB just oneshot the Smonlensk for no reasons. We still won it, but I agree that Disabling FF could avoid [edited] from games. 

 

But its also a way to ban people that's having fun killing team mates.

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The guys shooting up his teammate should be punished but why should the guy geting shot at lose his HP? Register the hits and warn the shooter but leave the victims healthpool alone.

 

One possible downside could be that trolls will "catch" or block friendly shots and torps so they themselves can get the kill.

 

Question is: Which is the lesser of two evils?

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Because it is a teamplay aspect. It forces you to be aware of your surroundings, your positioning and is a simple lesson of consequences for your actions, be it on purpose or by accident. Removing FF would just be another step towards a flashy ship shooting game, diminishing tactical aspects for situational, personal player experience.

 

They removed it in WoT due to "toxicity reasons" in random games, it is still active in competitive modes. WG also removed the enemy chat in WoT years ago due to the same reasons. A large part of the playerbase was just constantly harrasing other people, be it by ramming, shooting or verbal abuse. Obviously this fired back on the customer support and WG reduced the complaints by just removing the system entirely.

 

I did not like it in WoT and would not like to see it happen here.

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3 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

You can ram island with your ship at full speed and get no damage at all

Unironically, this irked me for some time. It's almost an exploit if you need to back up quickly. If you need to reverse and there's an island in front of you, it's optimal to first accelerate and run full speed into the island than to go into reverse earlier, which is ludicrous. If anything, WG should make ramming damage more consistent. FF is fine and immersive.

 

3 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

I see no reason.

It's immersive.

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I suspect it’s to encourage people to be more situationally aware. Although I am pleased it’s turned off for scenarios those often just descend into chaos.

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7 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

Yo.

Why we need friendly fire in game? I see no reason. WG removed friendly fire from world of tanks but kept in Wows. I must admit i "noticed" FF tday when someone from my team decided to tank my torps. Im not blaming guy, maybe he was in sniper mode, or whatever. Anyway now i am pink :/ .... hate this colour. Why we need FF? You can ram island with your ship at full speed and get no damage at all but you able to damage your team mates, intentionally or not. Switch off FF.

I like it. Keeps people on their toes more and promotes situational awareness. Though I must admit that islands doing damage would be even better. Dumbing down the game doesn't make it more fun.

 

As for torps, another situational awareness thing. Watch your surroundings, then fire them. And if you see someone in the proximity, tell them to watch out. Firing torps from the second line is always the fault of the one firing the torps. 

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It's a mixed bag, especially in co-op games. People ignore it and spam torps to try and win the kill race (what are they going to do,  make you play co-op...??) and others just crash into it even when the torpedoes were spotted from space (what's the penalty? playing more co-op?). But I wouldn't remove it, as I think it would just make the mode even more selfish than it currently is.

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8 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

I must admit i "noticed" FF tday when someone from my team decided to tank my torps. Im not blaming guy, maybe he was in sniper mode, or whatever.

Not blaming the other player was a wise decision.

Those torps were fired by you. You had the responsibility to make sure that they would not be a danger to your teammates. You made a wrong choice and are now pink for a limited time.

 

There are ways to torp so that your allies are not in danger, yet you still get a good chance at dealing damage.

  • Watch if there is a natural blocker, like an island or an already destroyed ship, that would catch any torps that miss your target.
  • Keeping watch of the minimap will also help, as it will tell you your teammates positions. If they move in such a way that they might enter your torps target area, you should hold your fire. Wait until it is clear or search for a different target.
  • Torp away from your teammates. This might need for you to maneuver somewhere else.

Your teammates have enough to do with fighting the enemy. They should not be wary of you as well. Torps load slowly. You have plenty of time to check your surroundings. Those players who are in the frontare busy fighting others with their guns do not always have that luxory and don't expect danger from their own ranks.

 

I like friendly fire (a paradox term) to still be in the game. It hopefully makes a player more aware of what is going on, instead of just spamming torps, or shells, into random directions all match long.

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8 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

Why we need friendly fire in game?

We do not really need it - but it is a very realistic aspect - and we can AVOID it. If You  use Your brain and think twice BEFORE firing .....

8 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

I see no reason.

Others do ... including me ... did I already mention the reason to use Your brain before firing ... I am sure I did

8 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

WG removed friendly fire from world of tanks but kept in Wows.

Maybe because it is a much faster game and more like the Wild West: You have to be faster on the draw  ... in this case FF would constrain the flow of the game. There may be other reasons ...

Though it goes with a similar concept it is in fact a quite diffent game.

WoWs would become more like WoT without FF ... I would not like that

8 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

I must admit i "noticed" FF tday when someone from my team decided to tank my torps. Im not blaming guy, maybe he was in sniper mode, or whatever.

crap happens - and happens to me also from time to time. But this is more a reason to question my previous decision to release the torps and not the concept of friendly fire

8 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

Anyway now i am pink :/ .... hate this colour.

So You are pink ... for a few games ... Live with it and bear it like a man without complaining

8 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

You can ram island with your ship at full speed and get no damage at all but you able to damage your team mates, intentionally or not. Switch off FF.

Just to mention it, there was a discussion to this point recently. There are people who think it appropriate to even add damage to the ship when hitting islands, and also when hitting the map borders (but this for very certain reasons)

 

 

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I would like to adjust ramming damage from "allies" and "opponents" to the same level. It's kind of lame to touch an opposing ship and blow it up, but ramming an allied ship at full speed and only scratch its varnish. Imagine all the fun we could have during the first 2 minutes of a game, when all the lemmings ram each other while trying to find the position in the train with the lowest risk of being targeted...

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Although, like many I, subscribe to Jingle's rule "Once Mr. Torpedo leaves the tube he is no ones friend" I think it would be nice if the game could indicate potential danger when firing torps.

Just throwing a few ideas around, how about change the colour of your torpedo firing arcs to pink, instead of green, if an ally could be hit.

Or the game sends an "I'm firing torpedoes" chat message, like when you use hydro search, but just to any team mate in range so warning them changing direction could be dangerous.

A proximity/collision indication of a team mate, like we have for islands, could be useful too.

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10 hours ago, _Conan_Librarian_ said:

 someone from my team decided to tank my torps.

Your torps your responsibility.  Rule 1 never fire from behind a team mate.  Penalties should probably actually be harsher.

 

It is rare but I have seen torps travel circa 12km then hit blue, aggravating, especially when they are ultra slow torps.   When they've been in the water for 15 secs and travelled the equivalent distance of one cap to another, they are still YOUR torps.

 

As for Ramming, it should cause proper damage in me view.....blue on blue noob stuff.

 

 

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Just mirror the dmg starting from the first friendly hit.

Simple and ez.

I see so much idiots shooting each other

"Just 4 fun" at match beginning.

And its awesome when the DD starts with 3k hp less.

Clap clap clap.

Insta lose from start. GG and thx mates.

Burn in hell mothertruckers.

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2 hours ago, Egoleter said:

Not blaming the other player was a wise decision.

Those torps were fired by you. You had the responsibility to make sure that they would not be a danger to your teammates. You made a wrong choice and are now pink for a limited time.

 

There are ways to torp so that your allies are not in danger, yet you still get a good chance at dealing damage.

  • Watch if there is a natural blocker, like an island or an already destroyed ship, that would catch any torps that miss your target.
  • Keeping watch of the minimap will also help, as it will tell you your teammates positions. If they move in such a way that they might enter your torps target area, you should hold your fire. Wait until it is clear or search for a different target.
  • Torp away from your teammates. This might need for you to maneuver somewhere else.

Your teammates have enough to do with fighting the enemy. They should not be wary of you as well. Torps load slowly. You have plenty of time to check your surroundings. Those players who are in the frontare busy fighting others with their guns do not always have that luxory and don't expect danger from their own ranks.

 

I like friendly fire (a paradox term) to still be in the game. It hopefully makes a player more aware of what is going on, instead of just spamming torps, or shells, into random directions all match long.

this, i've lost count of how many firing opportunities i've rejected because of the danger to allies, i'm not perfect and still make the odd mistake ( i  got very lucky in co op yesterday when the match finished about 2 seconds before i put 3 torps into an team mate) but i try to plan the torps "escape route" and " back stop" before firing

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9 hours ago, FukushuNL said:

As for torps, another situational awareness thing. Watch your surroundings, then fire them. And if you see someone in the proximity, tell them to watch out. Firing torps from the second line is always the fault of the one firing the torps. 

Ja, as you said and,

Allot of times the message you send out isn't even read because there not paying attention and focusing on what there firing at.

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8 hours ago, tinvek said:

this, i've lost count of how many firing opportunities i've rejected because of the danger to allies, i'm not perfect and still make the odd mistake ( i  got very lucky in co op yesterday when the match finished about 2 seconds before i put 3 torps into an team mate) but i try to plan the torps "escape route" and " back stop" before firing

This.

 

As Bart Simpson says: "Damned if I do, damned if I don't."

 

If  I fire I might hit a friendly and if I don't fire I might miss out on that kill/damage/torphit-ribbon/whatever that I've been working on for the last couple of hours.

 

It's frustrating to see that opportunity slip away all because of someone else.

 

There is a reason why line-tactics were used. It's so that everybody stay in their places and no one goes into the line-of-fire of someone else. It's a shared resonsibility. I keep an eye down my line of fire and stop shooting if a friendly drifts into it and everybody else, at least try to, stay out of my line of fire.

 

Now, the world isn't perfect and sh1t happens but let us at least make an joint effort to keep the sh1t away for as long as we can?

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IMHO Torps are mostly your responsibility....

 

But - especially in co-op - I have seen people cut in front of me (between me and my target) AFTER I have launched my torps from 4 or 5 km away towards a BB in a destroyer. I have also seen bots do that. At that point, it is more the other one, then the one launching the torpedoes. I have seen this happen quite a lot in co-op, being close in, lining up for a shot (broadside or torpedo launch), and have someone literally ram in (or rush in between me and him), so he/she can get the kill. Similarly, I have had an a-hole in a cruiser ram me out of my DD smoke-screen FROM BEHIND, block me from killing the targets I had lined up (he gets them), yell at me for me being the idiot, and leave me out in the open between a number of cruisers. I have seen the same happening in scenario games (especially Narai with the Missouri).

 

Actually trying to play careful, and getting the basics down in co-op tends to cost you kills because of yolo-rushers and general a-holes. And the occasional bot, of course.

 

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Shells or torpedoes explode on contact ... they don't care who they hit ... once live munition leaves your armament on an exciting journey into the unknown, it does not distinguish what it makes contact with ... and that's qood and proper  ...

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9 hours ago, Inked9 said:

Ja, as you said and,

Allot of times the message you send out isn't even read because there not paying attention and focusing on what there firing at.

Very true xD But it is the only thing you can do. At least you then try to make a stronger case for yourself. You are imo still in the wrong, but if you warn in advance you fired your torps and people had enough time to get out of the way, others could avoid the torps. Yes, torping from the 2nd line and hitting someone is ther torper's fault, but people are also considered to keep an eye on the chat in an equally responsible fashion imo. Same as driving a car. If people suddenly cross the road without looking, they are at fault when they get hit by a car. But the one driving should also keep paying attention because they are moving in a place where lots of people are making use of.

Same as in WoWs. It's not a singleplayer game and the chat is one of the core tools to work together and win the game. If someone makes a mistake by firing torps without looking arund correctly, but then makes every effort to get his teammates from sailing into their torps, those that don't look at the chat are partly at fault too imo. All this ofcourse with keeping in mind of all kinds of different speciffic circumstances that could happen. 

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