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Inappropriate_noob

Premium Brit cruisers..

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Is there ever going to be a tier 8 premium RN cruiser, heavy or light it don't really matter,seems like there is something missing in the premium shop, I'm sure WG could fit something in there, all you history buffs could perhaps suggest what my go where:cap_like:

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5 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Is there ever going to be a tier 8 premium RN cruiser,

Yes. The Cheshire. Coming very soon (in 0.9.0)?

 

She's basically Albemarle with 3 x 2 9.2 inch guns, rather than the 3 x 3 8 inch guns on Albemarle.

 

Here's an intro:

 

 

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1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Yes. The Cheshire. Coming very soon (in 0.9.0)?

 

She's basically Albemarle with 3 x 2 9.2 inch guns, rather than the 3 x 3 8 inch guns on Albemarle.

 

Here's an intro:

 

 

Oh nice, forgot about this or was thinking of something else, 15 second reload though, 1 second less that the Atago.

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9 hours ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Oh nice, forgot about this or was thinking of something else, 15 second reload though, 1 second less that the Atago.

I've been playing Italian Cruisers for the last month, I'm used to it. 

 

But I also got Albemarle from the first Imperial package and it's a strong ship,  and based on that I think Cheshire will fit in nicely. I know WG has been criticised recently but I think whoever is designing their cruisers is doing a good job - both recent lines feel like you want Heavy Cruisers to be.... they hit harder than Light Cruisers, or they can take more damage than Light Cruisers. Cheshire looks as if she does both quite well.  And I'd love a Town-Class CL at Tier VII with that heal... Sheffield would be just the thing.

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2 hours ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Is there ever going to be a tier 8 premium RN cruiser, heavy or light it don't really matter,seems like there is something missing in the premium shop, I'm sure WG could fit something in there, all you history buffs could perhaps suggest what my go where:cap_like:

 

You looking for another premium ship to sell? ^^ 

 

On a more serious note: yeah, a TVIII RN premium would be awesome, and while i‘m looking forward to the Ceshire, I want a light CL too. 

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2 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

 Yes. The Cheshire. Coming very soon (in 0.9.0)?

0.9.1 I think when the line will be released. Also London at T6 well be added. London has smoke so it's a pretty good one. 

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1 hour ago, MacArthur92 said:

0.9.1 I think when the line will be released. Also London at T6 well be added. London has smoke so it's a pretty good one. 

That's the one I was thinking of, my memory escapes me :Smile_veryhappy:

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Still mildly surprised they went for London and not Norfolk.

 

Norfolk was at the Battle of the Denmark Strait, shadowing Bismarck with her radar set. She’s better known.

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1 hour ago, Fodder1978 said:

Still mildly surprised they went for London and not Norfolk.

They may have felt that Norfolk would be too close to Surrey - there are various sources which name them as being part of the same sub-class (although the design was actually quite different). Personally I'm still waiting for Australia, but I think the Commonwealth line may not be WG's priority at the moment.

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Agree, HMS Norfolk or HMS Suffolk should have been the Premium, but more people know about the City of London than the Counties of Norfolk or Suffolk.

Both HMS Norfolk and HMS Suffolk were involved in Denmark Strait and had more storied histories than HMS London. 

 

Also surprised that HMS Devonshire is the silver ship in the tech tree as HMS London is the sub-class lead ship and the pattern has been (mostly) that the tech tree has the lead ship.

 

I too would like to see a T6-8 Premium RN CL or two.

 

Australia would be nice in the Commonwealth 'nation' in game. 

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3 hours ago, Fodder1978 said:

Still mildly surprised they went for London and not Norfolk.

 

Well HMS London is the only one of the Counties that received extensive modernization and ended quite different from the rest of the class.

 

2 hours ago, Cambera_1 said:

Agree, HMS Norfolk or HMS Suffolk should have been the Premium, but more people know about the City of London than the Counties of Norfolk or Suffolk.

Both HMS Norfolk and HMS Suffolk were involved in Denmark Strait and had more storied histories than HMS London. 

 

Again putting premium ships that looks just like the regular ships and will look just like possible future RAN premium ships doesn't have much sense, especially if there is actually an unique looking ships in the class, like HMS London. And if history is important why we have Cossack instead of Nubian or Eskimo as Tribal class premium?

 

2 hours ago, Cambera_1 said:

Also surprised that HMS Devonshire is the silver ship in the tech tree as HMS London is the sub-class lead ship and the pattern has been (mostly) that the tech tree has the lead ship.

 

Because of modernization and look. It would be ridicules if the put London in her original state and Devonshire as premium that looks like London after modernization, right? Also there are executions to the rule of naming tech tree ships. for example we got Helena instead of St. Louis at T7, because St. Louis is already used for T3. Or better example is Jutland at T9 which should be Barfleur is you want a lead ship of the class. Icarus is not the first ship of the I Class which is either laid down or finished just like Acasta. Lighting should be Laforey instead as HMS Laforey was flotilla leader just like Jervis.

 

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12 minutes ago, fumtu said:

And if history is important why we have Cossack instead of Nubian or Eskimo as Tribal class premium?

Cossack is (probably) the most famous Tribal Class Destroyer there is. Google the Altmark Incident - last time a contested boarding action was undertaken by the Royal Navy.

"The Navy's here!"

 

Truthfully though, the Tribal Destroyers were in the thick of it for much of the war as they were amongst the most modern vessels the Royal Navy had and a case could be made for various examples to be premium in game. I'm glad that we have two examples in game, one in the early war configuration (Cossack) and the other in the late war configuration (Haida).

 

22 minutes ago, fumtu said:

Because of modernization and look. It would be ridicules if the put London in her original state and Devonshire as premium that looks like London after modernization, right?

This is a great reason why HMS London should be the Tech Tree ship as this gives here a very good "B Hull". As for Devonshire not getting the Modernisation, fine, Fully Upgraded Tech Tree Ships should be better then a Premium at the same tier.

(USS Helena and USS Boise for example, (Yes I know that they are not quite the same class, but as near as), Zara and Goriza, Benson and Loyang (Debatably worse!), etc) (Yes I know that you can find example to argue the opposite).

There are lots of ways that a Premium can be made different from the Tech Tree example.

 

HMS Jamaica would make a very good Premium version of HMS Fiji. Both the lead class ship (Fiji) and Jamaica being storied, Fiji at the Battle of Crete and Jamaica at the Battle of North Cape and other actions in the Artic. Other Crown Colony Light Cruisers can put an equal claim in on historical grounds. Some could be candidates for the Commonwealth tree having served during WW2 in the New Zealand or Canadian Navies or being sold to India after the war, (so a candidate for the Pan Asian line too?) Another could be in the Pan American line, due to a sale to Peru). No I don't want all of these in game, but another one with a twist, not a problem.

 

51 minutes ago, fumtu said:

Also there are executions to the rule of naming tech tree ships. for example we got Helena instead of St. Louis at T7, because St. Louis is already used for T3. Or better example is Jutland at T9 which should be Barfleur is you want a lead ship of the class. Icarus is not the first ship of the I Class which is either laid down or finished just like Acasta. Lighting should be Laforey instead as HMS Laforey was flotilla leader just like Jervis.

All this proves, and I don't argue that you are not absolutely correct, is that WoWs can't make a rule and stick to it. HMS Barfleur being listed as the only Battle class destroyer that saw action in WW2. This should be the in game ship.

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18 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

Cossack is (probably) the most famous Tribal Class Destroyer there is. Google the Altmark Incident - last time a contested boarding action was undertaken by the Royal Navy.

"The Navy's here!"

 

You said " more storied histories" not famous action. HMS Nubian earned more Battle Honours then any Tribal class destroyer. In fact only one RN ship, HMS Warspite had more, and only two, HMS Jervis and HMS Orion equal it. Google HMS Nubian. Tirpitz is famous ship but his history record is anything but splendid. Same as Yamato or Musashi. Sure they are famous but they contribution to war effort could not be measured with ships like Ushio.

 

Also I already know quite about the Royal Navy in ww2, trust me.

 

Quote

This is a great reason why HMS London should be the Tech Tree ship as this gives here a very good "B Hull". As for Devonshire not getting the Modernisation, fine, Fully Upgraded Tech Tree Ships should be better then a Premium at the same tier.

 

Disagree. HMS London is better fit as premium as it is a unique ships in the class.

 

Quote

As for Devonshire not getting the Modernisation, fine, Fully Upgraded Tech Tree Ships should be better then a Premium at the same tier. (USS Helena and USS Boise for example, (Yes I know that they are not quite the same class, but as near as), Zara and Goriza, Benson and Loyang (Debatably worse!), etc) (Yes I know that you can find example to argue the opposite).

 

Some of your examples are quite debatable.

 

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I'd still like to see a RN premium CL that:

a) is possible to get hold of without gambling on containers

b) actually works well with a tech tree skipper

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21 minutes ago, fumtu said:

HMS Nubian earned more Battle Honours then any Tribal class destroyer.

In my capacity as whale and idiot, I say the more Tribals in the game the merrier...

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11 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

In my capacity as whale and idiot, I say the more Tribals in the game the merrier...

 

Well I wouldn't mind all 175 Fletchers but there is a little problem of balancing all of them. Cossack is already borderline broken ships, not sure how will WG balance another Tribal class to look "attractive" beside Cossack. And lot of them were not as famous as Cossack even tho they participate in numerous big and small actions. Four Tribal that survived the war, Nubian, Ashanti, Eskimo and Tartar saw actions in almost every theater of war but were never really famous like their sisters sunk earlier during the war. If they are not as good as Cossack they would not attract nearly as much buyers as they are less known so there is very little chance to see them in the game.

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9 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

You said " more storied histories" not famous action. HMS Nubian earned more Battle Honours then any Tribal class destroyer. In fact only one RN ship, HMS Warspite had more, and only two, HMS Jervis and HMS Orion equal it. Google HMS Nubian. Tirpitz is famous ship but his history record is anything but splendid. Same as Yamato or Musashi. Sure they are famous but they contribution to war effort could not be measured with ships like Ushio.

 

Also I already know quite about the Royal Navy in ww2, trust me.

 

 

Disagree. HMS London is better fit as premium as it is a unique ships in the class.

 

 

Some of your examples are quite debatable.

 

I'm not arguing, but debating...

 

Just how is Goriza better than Zara - hydro perhaps, otherwise it certainly isn't better, the loss of the torpedoes really hurts it. Boise and Loyang (just) have worse range than the tech tree equivalents, though the respective heal and hydro allows them to be played differently Benson has significantly more HP than Loyang.

 

Cossack, fine member of the class, ok Nubian has more battle honours, so there is an argument that she should be in game, but as I said many Tribals could have an argument for being in game. (Also the fact that Cossack was sunk seems to be another criteria for WoWs to put a British ship in game. It seems that they have gone out of their way to find "ships that didn't make it" for the Royal Navy)

 

Bismarck and Tirpitz - well a two ship class, both storied, but debateable which is the most famous. Tirpitz's biggest effect was that it tied down much of the Royal Navy's Home Fleet by simply existing as a Fleet in Being. This prevented these ships being redeployed to other theatres of war. Bismarck led a merry chase... I have no argument with WoWs about how these ships are in game.

Graf Spee, a member of the Deutschland class, but the most famous and storied. The right Premium to represent the class.


As for "storied". As an example my father had campaign medals for many (I believe all, but I would need to check) of the campaigns that Nubian had Battle Honours for, he even got the Normandy medal as well as the others. Does this mean that he should be an "in game commander"? Do I mean any slight on HMS Nubian and her crew?

No, certainly not, I just raise the point of "campaign medals/battle honours" not actually being the only grounds for "storied".

(My father was Merchant Navy not Royal Navy, but served on, amongst other merchant ships, a MAC Ship, I forget which one, but it was one of the Anglo Saxon Petroleum ships.)

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19 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

Just how is Goriza better than Zara - hydro perhaps, otherwise it certainly isn't better, the loss of the torpedoes really hurts it.

 

Gorizia is bad ship and being better that it is not some achievement.

 

19 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

Boise and Loyang (just) have worse range than the tech tree equivalents, though the respective heal and hydro allows them to be played differently Benson has significantly more HP than Loyang.

 

Loyang is way better that Benson, that is how good its hydro is. Boise is great ship but so is Helena. If Boise is not stronger ship it definitely isn't weaker either.

 

19 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

Tirpitz's biggest effect was that it tied down much of the Royal Navy's Home Fleet by simply existing as a Fleet in Being. This prevented these ships being redeployed to other theatres of war.

 

What a good way to waste desperately needed war resources. British could afford keeping part of it fleet to counter Tirpitz. Germans on the other hand didn't have any particular value of that fact as it is not like they have some large fleet activity elsewhere which would benefit from RN absence. BBs are not of much value in fighting vs subs so it is not like RN is loosing much by having them ready to counter few German warships. 

 

19 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

As for "storied". As an example my father had campaign medals for many (I believe all, but I would need to check) of the campaigns that Nubian had Battle Honours for, he even got the Normandy medal as well as the others. Does this mean that he should be an "in game commander"? Do I mean any slight on HMS Nubian and her crew?

No, certainly not, I just raise the point of "campaign medals/battle honours" not actually being the only grounds for "storied".

 

Just like taking part in one significant event doesn't mean that some ship should be in game because of that or to become a premium ship. WG is not always choosing the most famous ships for either tech tree or premium ship. Sometimes some other things are more important like for example some smaller or bigger differences in them. Being the only ship that ended different than the rest of the class, like HMS London, is good chance to create unique premium ship. Fact that Norfolk took part in more battles doesn't mean much for a game. And it shouldn't as people are quite subjective which ships has more or less right to be a proper premium.

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13 hours ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

That's the one I was thinking of, my memory escapes me :Smile_veryhappy:

T6 might be better, certainly if it has smoke (might even be damn OP if it has smoke at T6...). T8 you get many more T10 games... aarggghhh!

In the past I'd say T6-T7 "operations" would be a factor, for grinding credits/xp and retraining captains... but... well... :Smile_sad:

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7 minutes ago, fumtu said:

Just like taking part in one significant event doesn't mean that some ship should be in game because of that or to become a premium ship.

So you wouldn't include the Graf Spee, "just participating" in a single battle? Over stating your argument perhaps.

Actually, playing a significant role in a significant battle should be grounds for inclusion all else being equal.

I'd rather see a ship in game that had that significant moment, than a ship that ground out a long, effective but maybe not that distinguished career. So Ark Royal over Argus, Duke of York or Prince of Wales over Anson or Howe.

 

There are so many ships worthy of inclusion in game, and on the whole WoWs have done a good job of bringing many of them in game.

Most of the paper ships in most of the nations tech tree's are there because there wasn't a sensible real ship to fill the slot, Nicolas, Neptune, Minotaur, Zao et al.

(It is a pity that some paper ships (& paper premiums) aren't quite as good for the gameplay as others, choose your own examples here.)

 

So well done War Gaming on the RN ships so far, but we would like a few more...

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12 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

So you wouldn't include the Graf Spee, "just participating" in a single battle? Over stating your argument perhaps.

 

That wouldn't be my primary reason to choose Graf Spee as premium. But the fact is the Graf Spee is the best know Deutchland Class ship simple because other two didn't take part in any significant actions, or not nearly as famous as GS did. But that doesn't mean that they do not deserve to be in the game as they could have done significantly more under significantly worse conditions but less noticeable. Just like, for example did a lot of RN destroyers and cruisers in the Mediterranean.

 

Quote

Actually, playing a significant role in a significant battle should be grounds for inclusion all else being equal.

 

Yes but in Norfolk and London case it is not everything equal, right? They are not looking the same, at least not after London was modernize. I'm not saying that Norfolk shouldn't be in the game but as first County class premium, London is much better choice especially as another County is already in the tech tree.

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16 hours ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

15 second reload though, 1 second less that the Atago.

Which also has 10 guns, with good HE. 

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13 minutes ago, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

So the RN Heavy Cruisers get Smoke.  Gimmick found.

Next...

 

No, it is a premium CA, London, that gets smoke.

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3 hours ago, fumtu said:

Cossack is already borderline broken ships, not sure how will WG balance another Tribal class to look "attractive" beside Cossack. And lot of them were not as famous as Cossack even tho they participate in numerous big and small actions. 

The same way they balanced Haida.... As we have British and Canadian Tribals already that really only leaves the Australian ones and the Canadians with the quad 4 inch turrets. Haida is balanced around her smoke and enhanced guns, so make the Aussie ones have more of a torpedo speciality... a Tier VII with Jervis guns and Cossack torps would be fine. 

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