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loppantorkel

Ships suited for meta 2020/01

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Looking at my tier 10 dds, I think shima might be the strongest option in Random games atm. Quite a turnaround from a few years ago. Great stealth help in all games, also in cv games to some extent. It's fast enough and has a small profile which helps a lot given that gun fights dd vs dd isn't how you sink most times, but mostly through getting spotted and damage from other sources. Shima 12 km torps are very viable in most games.

 

Feel free to add other dds, cruisers or bbs that work well in the current meta, preferably with a short explanation as to why.

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1 minute ago, loppantorkel said:

Feel free to add other dds, cruisers or bbs that work well in the current meta, preferably with a short explanation to why.

CVs work well in current meta, because WG wants it so.

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12 minutes ago, 22cm said:

CVs work well in current meta, because WG wants it so.

That's a given, yes. The intent was decent enough, but in the end, cvs are almost as disruptive as before the changes.

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Shima IMO always was good ship but for the wrong reasons - camo and speed. And decent guns when specced for them, though throwing yourself at nearest gun hose and keep fighting it is still not advised. But then, you can outrun and outspot those. And hilariously outspot those who can catch up to you

 

From other DDs... I play only Brits now, due to 7 smokes which happens to be the best CV counter.

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I think the haru, daring and groz are more comfortbale in randoms. Its stills sommers master race comp wise though

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1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Shima IMO always was good ship but for the wrong reasons - camo and speed. And decent guns when specced for them, though throwing yourself at nearest gun hose and keep fighting it is still not advised. But then, you can outrun and outspot those. And hilariously outspot those who can catch up to you

 

From other DDs... I play only Brits now, due to 7 smokes which happens to be the best CV counter.

Daring and the other brits are ofc good options too, hampered somewhat by the slow speed. I think Daring in particular was a bit more powerful earlier, relatively, but due to more spotting in general and the increase in firepower - Smolensk in particular, but also Venezia, Thunderer, etc, early capping and cap contesting is less effective than before. Moving around, doing damage, chasing smoke-clouds and spotting has become more valuable. Gunning down dds one-on-one like before isn't what WG wants, it seems, or it's just a side-effect of other changes. I know it's still possible, but in my experience and looking at the latest Kleber nerf, WG is moving away from this.

 

2 other ships I feel comfortable playing in high tiers atm are Jean Bart and Kitakaze. Kita is a bit OP at tier 9 so that's a given and I've played it enough to not enjoy it as much, while JB gets usually decent MM and can handle most situations in the current meta, being fast and having decent guns with the very usable reload boost. I'm not feeling it for any of the cruisers I have atm, Alaska excluded maybe because it's a new ship and can be decent fun at times, but I'm not drawn to playing it really.

 

Ships that have become more or less obsolete: GK with LM - had great fun in this ship, but now it's so MM dependable it's not worth it. Kleber - I see no good reason to play it anymore, I felt it was a quite difficult ship to enjoy and be effective in earlier, but after nerf, it's too painful. I hate constant spam and ambush isn't very viable anymore. New Orleans - love the ship but being thrown into tier 9 games mostly, it's tough to have a serious impact on the games. That probably goes for several tier 7 ships and has more to do with MM changes than the ships. I see NO suffering more than for example Fiji though. I'm not touching HIV.

 

So I feel less inclined to play several ships lately, due to what the meta has become lately. This isn't a complaint about the current meta, too much HE or so, just a reflection. Some ships work better than others. I'm just wondering how you feel. Has there been changes in which ships you feel are viable and which ships you just feel doesn't work anymore?

 

Edit: Looking at the recent matches, it looks like Shima, as always, Smolensk and Thunderer might be the go-to ships in this current state, if we excluse cvs. They seem effective and common enough.

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3 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

Feel free to add other dds, cruisers or bbs that work well in the current meta, preferably with a short explanation as to why.

 

Gearing works for me. The old workhorse & jack of all trades, can pretty much deal with any situation. Not super strong in anything but neither weak in something.

 

Besides T10: Kiev shines hard. With more and more "not so good players" around - to put it mildly, its a farming machine. BBs ignoring you after they missed 2 salvos, DDs trying to pick a fight and well, most CV players not beeing decent enough to hit you either, Kiev become one of my favourite ships. Oh yea, improved T8 MM did its part aswell.

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4 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

Looking at my tier 10 dds, I think shima might be the strongest option in Random games atm. Quite a turnaround from a few years ago. Great stealth help in all games, also in cv games to some extent. It's fast enough and has a small profile which helps a lot given that gun fights dd vs dd isn't how you sink most times, but mostly through getting spotted and damage from other sources. Shima 12 km torps are very viable in most games.

 

Feel free to add other dds, cruisers or bbs that work well in the current meta, preferably with a short explanation as to why.

Good points @loppantorkel

 

However bear in mind, BB main players hate being torpedoed, by sneeky little F****rs

 

image.png.0bf7d0a730fd472ec424207f72d49dda.png

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9 minutes ago, Barracuda_111 said:

image.png.0bf7d0a730fd472ec424207f72d49dda.png

* laughs in Asashio wall of torps *

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11 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

* laughs in Asashio wall of torps *

yes and you have to get in torp range ~~~~ :Smile_trollface:

 

image.png.8d50644e6c2cb99375581324677eee19.png

 

 

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All DDs are not fun to play if there is fun police in a game. If he's even slightly good - game over. If not still can mess with your plays.

Cruisers - long range open water or smoke (smolensk) fire spammers  are better now then island huggers as too many new BBs can blap angled CAs anyway with a spot from CV or CV itself can easily farm stationary targets by abusing sling shot or islands as AA cover.

Master-race has an easy mode now unless burnt to crisps. If you know how to position and DDs will not die and spot for you that is, but still RNG can mess with you badly. 

Too many battles recently with only one DD, not fun as someone has to scout and ends focused, game becomes slow and played at max range if nobody wants to risk.

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1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Gearing works for me. The old workhorse & jack of all trades, can pretty much deal with any situation. Not super strong in anything but neither weak in something.

 

Besides T10: Kiev shines hard. With more and more "not so good players" around - to put it mildly, its a farming machine. BBs ignoring you after they missed 2 salvos, DDs trying to pick a fight and well, most CV players not beeing decent enough to hit you either, Kiev become one of my favourite ships. Oh yea, improved T8 MM did its part aswell.

I guess I have to try and grind the Ru dd line a bit more.

 

What Gearing build are you running now? LM? Torp- or gun-oriented? I suppose LM Gearing in division is a good option still, but unsupported, I feel it's more vulnerable than a shima and not equipped to handle enough variety of dd encounters.

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2 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

So I feel less inclined to play several ships lately, due to what the meta has become lately. This isn't a complaint about the current meta, too much HE or so, just a reflection. Some ships work better than others. I'm just wondering how you feel. Has there been changes in which ships you feel are viable and which ships you just feel doesn't work anymore? 

 

For me its more of a tier thing than a ship thing. Used to love T7, but ive barely touched that because of the MM change. If i play T7 ships, has been in Narai lately.

Funnily enough, T5 got even better than before, but you got constant CV spam down there. But hasnt stopped me from getting excellent games, so its less of an issue than one might think.

T8 got better, and it shows. Alltho, i really dislike Richelieu. Bad dispersion + small caliber + railguns = no performance at all. Doesnt hit, and if it does, its an overpen. And paper armor.

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2 hours ago, Munchboii said:

Thunderer. Get this ship before it is removed or you will regret it

Removed? You mean nerfed. Enjoy any ships while her new ship smell is still there...cause once it gone.  We all know what happens.

 

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10 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

For me its more of a tier thing than a ship thing. Used to love T7

I agree with this as well.  Tier 7 was the sweet spot for me.  Not too much gimmick to deal with, with retaining the fundamentals of gameplay.

 

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33 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

What Gearing build are you running now? LM? Torp- or gun-oriented? I suppose LM Gearing in division is a good option still, but unsupported, I feel it's more vulnerable than a shima and not equipped to handle enough variety of dd encounters.

 

I kept the LM since the last clanwar season, mostly, because Im too lazy to switch the build. Doesnt seem to make a huge difference and the better concealment is actually nice at times. I switched to gunbuild long time ago, tried torp build first and that just wasnt it. And true, for divisions, its a really good pick aswell.

 

10 minutes ago, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

Tier 7 was the sweet spot for me.  Not too much gimmick to deal with, with retaining the fundamentals of gameplay.

 

Indeed, T7 used to be prolly the most balanced playground in the entire game. Every class had decent influence on the game without having some crazy OP ships. Now with new mm...

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One can question if DDs are even viable where CVs are allowed. My opinion is only the ones with significant HE spam threat is.

Else, it's the same as last Ranked: Smolaids, Balancegrad, DM, Kremlin, Thunderer and probably Venezia too. Radar Mino also seem strong.

 

Of the tier X DDs, Harugumo seems far and away the strongest in Randoms since it can reliably kill any threat pretty fast (including radared threats) while Daring with siimilar firepower and added it's defensive strengths seems better in Ranked.

Grozovoi comes in 3rd, and after that Kitakaze and Benham are my preferred tier X dd choices.:Smile_trollface:

Didnt play much Somers since Benham does the same, just better. 

Gearing, Z52, YY might aswell be tier IX and I've never really liked my Shima, but maybe after your suggestion,  I should try it.

4 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

Daring and the other brits are ofc good options too, hampered somewhat by the slow speed. I think Daring in particular was a bit more powerful earlier, relatively, but due to more spotting in general and the increase in firepower - Smolensk in particular, but also Venezia, Thunderer, etc, early capping and cap contesting is less effective than before. Moving around, doing damage, chasing smoke-clouds and spotting has become more valuable.

Slow speed is a downside, but apart from that, you just defined the Daring playstyle there.

Lots of smokes allows it to play that style reliably even with CVs in the game. I used it with great succes last Ranked season.

The only way to lose to a shima is if you are stupid enough to play the capping game or eat a torpedo. Since you generally want to kill or force the opposition to retreat before capping these days, Daring HE spam from smoke with hydro safety net is extremely strong. I also find it maneuverable enough to simply dodge Venezia and Smolensk fire. It doesnt kill Smolensk though. That takes a Benham wall of skill.

2 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Gearing works for me. The old workhorse & jack of all trades, can pretty much deal with any situation. Not super strong in anything but neither weak in something.

Glad to hear my old favorite still works. Mine is being outshined by Benham and Somers as well as other gunboats.

Do you use LM?

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1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

I guess I have to try and grind the Ru dd line a bit more.

 

What Gearing build are you running now? LM? Torp- or gun-oriented? I suppose LM Gearing in division is a good option still, but unsupported, I feel it's more vulnerable than a shima and not equipped to handle enough variety of dd encounters.

Gearing :-

image.png.69a2f4b6cc115bbb64e8b4ae72f82b90.png

 

image.png.6babcd4dd9ba51554bfc546012105732.png

 

image.png.7f98e0ebb0e98723ef0e833dc41eb235.png

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18 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

One can question if DDs are even viable where CVs are allowed. My opinion is only the ones with significant HE spam threat is.

Else, it's the same as last Ranked: Smolaids, Balancegrad, DM, Kremlin, Thunderer and probably Venezia too. Radar Mino also seem strong.

 

Of the tier X DDs, Harugumo seems far and away the strongest in Randoms since it can reliably kill any threat pretty fast (including radared threats) while Daring with siimilar firepower and added it's defensive strengths seems better in Ranked.

Daring and Grozovoi comes in 2nd, and after that Kitakaze and Benham are my preferred tier X dd choices.:Smile_trollface:

Didnt play much Somers since Benham does the same, just better. 

Gearing, Z52, YY might aswell be tier IX. I dont play Shima.

Slow speed is a downside, but apart from that, you just defined the Daring playstyle there.

Lots of smokes allows it to play that style reliably even with CVs in the game. I used it with great succes last Ranked season.

The only way to lose to a shima is if you are stupid enough to play the capping game or eat a torpedo. Since you generally want to kill or force the opposition to retreat before capping these days, Daring HE spam from smoke with hydro safety net is extremely strong. I also find it maneuverable enough to simply dodge Venezia and Smolensk fire. It doesnt kill Smolensk though. That takes a Benham wall of skill.

I'm skipping Ranked as long as cvs are in. I agree, it's a pain and not fun at all. In the OP I focused more on my recent experience in Random games, the meta change and the viability of different ships.

 

I agree that Daring with the 'unlimited' supply of smoke probably is one of the better options in Ranked, ahead of ships like Shima. In Random battles, I think I prefer Shima atm, which I didn't do some months back, at least didn't consider it as strong as the Daring. Harugumo is probably strong in Random games, but I prefer Kita over it since it plays more like an ordinary dd, with enough firepower.

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Maybe Somers? Played only a few games without much succes, but overall i like it! Its more or less US equivalent of Shima, torpedoes reload faster, AA is pretty much non existent, but air conclealment is good, 2.5 km if im not wrong

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35 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Glad to hear my old favorite still works. Mine is being outshined by Benham and Somers as well as other gunboats.

Do you use LM?

 

Played both with and without LM, like I said, doesnt make that much of a difference in randoms. Its better for clanwars tho. Although in clanwars, the last season was rough. The Klebers changed the rules of the game for Gearing a lot.

Also interesting, since I dont really like Benham in randoms (dont have somers and didnt really see the point, when I already prefer Fletcher over Benham). But that might have something to do with Benham beeing somewhat of an opportunist. It perform outstanding, when the enemys push you. Since I play in divis only and always have backup, that doesnt happen much. But to get my team into an offensiv, pushing position, I always want to win the innitial DD vs DD engagement or get the cap. For that, Gearing and Fletcher are obviously better suited. So prolly they just fit my playstyle better then Benham does.

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12 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

I'm skipping Ranked as long as cvs are in. I agree, it's a pain and not fun at all. In the OP I focused more on my recent experience in Random games, the meta change and the viability of different ships.

 

I agree that Daring with the 'unlimited' supply of smoke probably is one of the better options in Ranked, ahead of ships like Shima. In Random battles, I think I prefer Shima atm, which I didn't do some months back, at least didn't consider it as strong as the Daring. Harugumo is probably strong in Random games, but I prefer Kita over it since it plays more like an ordinary dd, with enough firepower.

I have had fun with Asashio since forever. But it is kinda limited sometimes. When the team stubbornly refuses to shoot the spotted cruisers to farm BBs in the back you are limited.

 

What works great in the current meta is russian gunboats with smoke. Since CVs are in close to every game you need smoke to survive. But the 14-15km range still means that with decent positioning you can usually hide from the planes and farm something while doing so.

IFHE also lets me kill the red cruisers when the team refuses to shoot them (or cant hit them).

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27 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

 In the OP I focused more on my recent experience in Random games, the meta change and the viability of different ships.

 

I agree that Daring with the 'unlimited' supply of smoke probably is one of the better options in Ranked, ahead of ships like Shima. In Random battles, I think I prefer Shima atm, which I didn't do some months back, at least didn't consider it as strong as the Daring. Harugumo is probably strong in Random games, but I prefer Kita over it since it plays more like an ordinary dd, with enough firepower.

Tried to cover both Random and Ranked above, maybe it got messed up. 

I agree Kitakaze might be even better than Harugumo (speedboost module helps though). Are you talking shima soloor division? Because with a division shima using concealment can be very strong. Apart from that I played lots of Benham and I still find it really tough to influence the match with torpedoes (and unreliable teammates not shooting what i spot) when compared to having your own guns. Using harugumo, the very worst i managed vs shimas was a 1 for 1 trade, but I did adapt my playstyle over the last month (ignoring caps being one of the changes)

 

21 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Played both with and without LM, like I said, doesnt make that much of a difference in randoms. Its better for clanwars tho. Although in clanwars, the last season was rough. The Klebers changed the rules of the game for Gearing a lot.

Also interesting, since I dont really like Benham in randoms (dont have somers and didnt really see the point, when I already prefer Fletcher over Benham). But that might have something to do with Benham beeing somewhat of an opportunist. It perform outstanding, when the enemys push you. Since I play in divis only and always have backup, that doesnt happen much. But to get my team into an offensiv, pushing position, I always want to win the innitial DD vs DD engagement or get the cap. For that, Gearing and Fletcher are obviously better suited. So prolly they just fit my playstyle better then Benham does.

Agree, I dont use LM either in randoms. I can see how you prefer having the 5th gun for those duels.

I mostly play Solo and to farm credits, which both are points in Benhams favour over Fletchers and Gearings and my stats in it are leaps and bounds above the other two as would be expected by a tier 11, so obviously the playstyle fits me. I dont consider it an oppertunist since It's one of the only torpedo boats that are actually lethal even to bowtanking BBs due to how often and how easy it is to hit them with torps. Also good at yoloing even multiple ships(yes I've done it!), should they pull back, so it can work well with a push too. Weaknesses are CVs and shimakaze type DDs since they run away and it's a stalemate.

 

Also agree that for randoms Somers is just an inferior Benham due to much longer torpedo cd. 

 

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