Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Filipin00

Is that a thing?

34 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[UAC]
Players
659 posts
2,215 battles

That people say good ships are bad?

 

I just bought Prinz Eitel Friedrich today and people say that it's apparently bad, but for me it's awesome, I have awesome battles in it, bi:etc_swear: slaps citadels of cruisers and sometimes even BBs pretty well, everything else is ok, even dispersion.

Are people just THAT bad with certain ships and proceed to say ship is bad? :cap_yes:

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,569 posts
9,841 battles

I think PEF is a really strong ship.

The dispersion is really nice imo. Yes, the caliber is rather small so it cant punish BBs that easily, but its extremely good against Cruisers.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[YEBOI]
Players
296 posts
9,506 battles

My main issue with PEF is that it was advertised (and sold) as an AA stronk battleship. And we all know the state of AA right now. Suffered same fate as Yubari imo, except can see T8 carriers. 

 

Also it doesn’t uptier well, but then again most mid tier BBs suffer from this. Try being shot by NC, Massa, Vladivostok etc. 

 

I like PEF, but for me it’s distinctly meh. Not bad, not great.  

 

Glad you’re enjoying yours. Mid tiers can be fun matches

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
30,371 posts
15,494 battles
19 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

That people say good ships are bad?

 

I just bought Prinz Eitel Friedrich today and people say that it's apparently bad, but for me it's awesome, I have awesome battles in it, bi:etc_swear: slaps citadels of cruisers and sometimes even BBs pretty well, everything else is ok, even dispersion.

Are people just THAT bad with certain ships and proceed to say ship is bad? :cap_yes:

Yes. That happens.

People have expectations of a ship. If they are not met, the ship is considered bad. With high expectations, even good ships might not meet them, and then be declared bad.

 

PEF is a good ship, but lacks offensive power when uptiered.

The problem is that WG gave PEF WW1 shells, while even Tier V ships usually have post-WW1 shells. PEF shells are just outdated for Tier VI, which results in lower velocity at longer ranges and low penetration, which gives her bad penetration in an uptiered battle enviroment. That makes her more challenging to play and frustrates players, who expected more.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[YEBOI]
Players
296 posts
9,506 battles
1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

That [...] frustrates players, who expected more.

Exactly. Except my expectation was that of decent AA (kinda the ship’s supposed gimmick), not monster gun performance. Still, somewhat disappointed even tho expectations weren’t particularly high. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SM0KE]
Players
6,749 posts
15,261 battles
17 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

Are people just THAT bad with certain ships and proceed to say ship is bad?

It's not always that people are even bad in some ships; it can sometimes be a simple disconnect between what a ship can do/is good at, and what the player expects a ship like that to do.

 

I rather like PEF as well, although mine tends to live in Ops as I'm not a BB meister; I suspect a lot of the issue with this ship for many is that the guns are not the text-book enormous BB monsters that they've come to expect. as mentioned earlier though, she's really rather splendid against cruisers and similarly squishy targets.

 

From this potato's perspective, she's rather fun, although I would probably pick something else if I wanted to face real people, as it can be tricky to deal with BBs (especially same-higher tiers) with the smaller main guns...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
3,470 posts
11,259 battles
6 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

I think PEF is a really strong ship.

The dispersion is really nice imo. Yes, the caliber is rather small so it cant punish BBs that easily, but its extremely good against Cruisers.

That's not a big deal, it doesn't take much to be good against cruisers.

 

Just saying

 

12 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

That people say good ships are bad?

 

I just bought Prinz Eitel Friedrich today and people say that it's apparently bad, but for me it's awesome, I have awesome battles in it, bi:etc_swear: slaps citadels of cruisers and sometimes even BBs pretty well, everything else is ok, even dispersion.

Are people just THAT bad with certain ships and proceed to say ship is bad? :cap_yes:

Let me put it this way.

 

In this game, PEV it's a German BB.

And for a German BB it's a bland ship at best, it's a black ship of the German BBs, mainly because it doesn't do things that we came to  expect from a German BB.

For me, Bayern it's strait out better in every way, Because it does what "says in the tin", and sometimes even more.

 

But if you take PEV like any other BB, it might be okish, I guess...

 

the important thing is that you are happy with your purchase and you are enjoying it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
406 posts
9,894 battles
2 hours ago, Filipin00 said:

That people say good ships are bad?

 

I just bought Prinz Eitel Friedrich today

I can't comment as I do not personally have tested, nor played this ship ever.  So I will refrain from giving any advice on the matter. Like an adult.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
3,470 posts
11,259 battles
2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Even after a year, she is still around the second best premium ship.

image.thumb.png.16b4d904de92baace6c8406b4e483791.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200111/eu_2month/average_ship.html

Yeah, Arizona...

 

My very first battle with PEV ended with me running away from an Arizona.

 

That was a first while in a German BB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LAFIE]
Beta Tester
5,804 posts
6,428 battles
5 hours ago, Filipin00 said:

That people say good ships are bad?

 

I just bought Prinz Eitel Friedrich today and people say that it's apparently bad, but for me it's awesome, I have awesome battles in it, bi:etc_swear: slaps citadels of cruisers and sometimes even BBs pretty well, everything else is ok, even dispersion.

Certainly feels like it is a thing at times indeed. And I happen to 100% agree with you on the PEF, in fact have felt this way since before the German BB dispersion buff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[THESO]
[THESO]
Players
3,027 posts
26,278 battles

ship always (mostly lol) been a pleasure to play. i run a full ifhe sec build actually on her, as the sec range of around 7km is quite good for her tier (t7 range is worthless on any sec capable sec bb :/). one can go full wheee or just play her as classic bb.

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UAC]
Players
659 posts
2,215 battles
9 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

the important thing is that you are happy with your purchase and you are enjoying it.

Oh, I am enjoying it, it's just I look at a review that says it's bad, I call BS on that, and proceed to buy it anyway and find out it's actually really good.

This is the review I was talking about.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
30,371 posts
15,494 battles
15 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

This is the review I was talking about.

Clearly, Denarmo is a guy with more emotions than thinking capability. His comparision with Mutsu is laughable, especially since Mutsu has a similar problem with her shells (WW1 standard).

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,870 posts
9,676 battles

When someone, especially people that play lots of different ships like most CCs, say a ship is bad, it's not that you can't perform well in it. It's that compared to most ships in the same tier and class bracket it's under performing.

In the case of PEF it's mostly down to the guns being weak and that the ship lacks turtleback armor which all other German BBs have. Compared to the other German Tier 6 BB Bayern, it just has a bit more speed and AA. Everything else is worse.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
30,371 posts
15,494 battles
1 minute ago, Nechrom said:

When someone, especially people that play lots of different ships like most CCs, say a ship is bad, it's not that you can't perform well in it. It's that compared to most ships in the same tier and class bracket it's under performing.

In the case of PEF it's mostly down to the guns being weak and that the ship lacks turtleback armor which all other German BBs have. Compared to the other German Tier 6 BB Bayern, it just has a bit more speed and AA. Everything else is worse.

Kongo has more speed than New York, but less firepower and less armor. Still the better ship.

PEF wins more matches than almost all other Tier VI premiums, despite having guns that can frustrate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,870 posts
9,676 battles
1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Kongo has more speed than New York, but less firepower and less armor. Still the better ship.

But the advantage Kongo has over New York doesn't just extend to speed. It has significantly better guns, even with 2 less. It has distributed armor at a tier where that's actually a good thing. It's not just 3 knots faster (like PEF over Bayern), it's 9 knots faster.

The thing with PEF is that it has 3 knots speed advantage, 0.2 better sigma, faster turret traverse, better gun angles and slightly better AA. Everything else is just straight up worse. Weaker guns (even though Bayern's guns were already awful at tier 6), weaker armor in every way (thinner and worse layout), bigger target, worse turning, worse concealment etc.

You can play around a lot of weaknesses, but there's not a lot you can do with bad guns. German BBs have always had lower tier guns in most respects, but they make up for it with their armor scheme. So when a German BB has even worse guns and doesn't have the iconic German armor, what then does it have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
30,371 posts
15,494 battles
2 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

But the advantage Kongo has over New York doesn't just extend to speed. It has significantly better guns, even with 2 less.

But she has not. US 356mm AP has even slightly more pen.

5 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

So when a German BB has even worse guns and doesn't have the iconic German armor, what then does it have?

  • speed
  • accuracy
  • still tougher than most non-german ships

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,569 posts
9,841 battles
6 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

So when a German BB has even worse guns

 

The guns arent bad tho. In my ranked sprint battles with it i have >38% Hitrate, and thats with shooting DDs all the time. (in my random battle with it i even got 44%).

Bourgogne has also bad guns because of the smallest caliber on TX? Ofc caliber matters, but shooting angled BBs is generally a bad thing unless you can overmatch them - and most of the time thats NOT a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,870 posts
9,676 battles
4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

But she has not. US 356mm AP has even slightly more pen.

And Kongo has substantially better accuracy, even at her longer range. Raw shell performance on hit? Sure the US shell is ever so slightly better.

 

12 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • speed
  • accuracy

Yes, which is why I specifically mentioned that myself. But even then it's not a big difference (unlike Kongo vs NY).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
30,371 posts
15,494 battles
7 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

And Kongo has substantially better accuracy, even at her longer range. Raw shell performance on hit? Sure the US shell is ever so slightly better.

She does not. The difference in base dispersion means that New York is better below 11km and Kongo better above. Between 7-13 km, they are very similar.

image.thumb.png.a6f1ac0d73f117691f7b0a3066e09f25.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200111/eu_2month/average_ship.html

They even have similar kills and similar damage. Still, Kongo wins more, since she does her battles where it hurts the enemy more.

And that is the way PEF works too.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,870 posts
9,676 battles
14 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

She does not. The difference in base dispersion means that New York is better below 11km and Kongo better above. Between 7-13 km, they are very similar.

Citation needed.

 

15 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

They even have similar kills and similar damage. Still, Kongo wins more, since she does her battles where it hurts the enemy more.

And that is the way PEF works too.

Okay. I guess I'll just agree since you don't actually bring up anything to have a discussion over.

I'll just say the same then: I do better in every other Tier 6 BB, so the PEF is a bad Tier 6 BB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
30,371 posts
15,494 battles
1 hour ago, Nechrom said:

I'll just say the same then: I do better in every other Tier 6 BB, so the PEF is a bad Tier 6 BB.

Well, that is your personal problem. :Smile_medal:

The server stats are posted above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[KAKE]
Players
2,790 posts
6,795 battles

I like the PEF, but I can understand how she's not everybody's cup of tea. She feels a lot like a downtiered version of pre-"buff" Hood, which I also enjoyed (not that I don't enjoy her with regular AP fuses as well, but she's lost a bit of her character). They're both ships that capture a lot of that battle cruiser "feel", decent mobility, fairly good at kiting, reward angling and positioning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×